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We Have To Discuss The Political Implications of This Attack Because....

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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:40 AM
Original message
We Have To Discuss The Political Implications of This Attack Because....
It's politics that caused it. Specifically, it was the mass manipulation of intelligence, lying, and fear-mongering on the part of Bush and Blair that goaded the U.S. and Britain into an illegal war in Iraq. And, folks, there's a price to pay for this, only it won't be Blair and Bush who will pay it. It will be you and me who will pay. We will be the targets of these attacks again and again.

The only way to protect ourselves is to remove these neocon, war-mongering, chickenhawks, who believe that they have the God-given right to invade any country on earth, from power. They are making us less safe every day.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. as someone much earlier pointed out -- who benefits?
bush/blair and their corporate buddies. that's who.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. Why do people love the 'cui bono?' argument so much?
Because it's easy to justify the desired answer? Because it allows free speculation? Because it encourages avoidance of facts? Because it provides instant elimination of insecurity and uncertainty? Because it makes everybody equally able to participate in an egalitarian way?

All of the above?

Just curious.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. But can't the political discussion wait a day or two?
Out of respect for the victims and their families? I don't want to see them minimized.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. bush/blair won't wait.
they certainly didn't after 9-11.

we treated 9-11 like a sentimental coca-cola commercial.

it's a mistake to leave that window open.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
32. We're not as "sentimental" today.
I think this will be harder to sell; and the "selling" started right away. 9/11 made us feel angry and patriotic, both strong emotions. This is just making us sad. We're all older and wiser.
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GeekMonkey Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. no, thats just what the bush criminal empire wants us to do
they want to make sure we wait a day or two to allow them time to frame the issue to benefit them

stop suggesting we help them
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. No, It Cannot
Bush, Blair, and the neocons will flood the airwaves tonight with rationalizations about the war in Iraq, and they will make a new plea about another war in Iran or Syria. They win because they immediately capitalize on fear. If we don't get out our counter-message, then the furor will build, and it will be too late to stop them.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. And how exactly are you planning on counter-acting *'s media spin?
Are you a broadcaster, journalist or other person who has media access?
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Out of respect for ALL who have died in Bush's illegal war
Or as a result of his war, including the Iraqis, we should continue to speak the truth and hold Bush accountable.

:patriot:
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Why? Do you know these people personally?
Every day there are millions of people who die from hunger and poverty. Do you put aside all other discussions in your life out of respect for them and their families?

When Fallujah was leveled in Iraq, and many times more people were killed and injured as were in the London bombing, did you set everything else aside so as not to "minimize" their suffering?

I certainly despise seeing senseless bloodshed such as this. But to say that we need to all stop our lives in order to mourn this particular event is the height of hypocrisy -- unless, of course, we do the same thing when there are tragedies involving non-Anglo or non-European people. Then again, if we behaved in such a manner, we'd spend our entire lifetimes mourning.
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adarling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. i agree....yet right now let it rest
This is so sad, today should just be a day for praying and making sure these people are okay. Its sick and sad that these people would do something like this. But not unexpected, i think we might want to look at our systems as well, if we can protect them. I just hope people realize these men (or women) are radicals just like every religion has. Christianity too, just pray everyone wakes up from this crap and starts to blame both parties, the bombers and the ones in charge (chimpy and blair)
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GeekMonkey Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. suggesting we lay off is bad enough
suggesting we waste time praying to a non-existant god is playing right into the bushies hands
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adarling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. say what you want
but there are alot of liberals who have faith, we just don't twist it around to make it something it isn't like chimpy.
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GeekMonkey Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. faith is fine as long as you keep it to yourself
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 10:27 AM by GeekMonkey
when you inject it into a conversation, you expose yourself to ridicule

if i claimed that my giant invisible purple magic flying monkey could help people if we just pretended to talk to him about it, then i would expect the same amount of ridicule

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adarling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. freedom of speech
u don't have to respect my views, but i can do whatever i want, say whatever i want and you do to, thats why this country is great. So just let this go and move on. Your attacking the wrong people here and if this is what you want, then move on.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Is every massacre in Iraq also a "day for praying"???
Or is this tragedy somehow more worthy of our prayers because it was Anglo-Europeans who were primarily affected by it?

It's rather telling to me that we didn't hear similar sentiments being voiced during the razing of Fallujah, where casualties were many times over what were caused by this latest bombing in London.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. You are absolutely right
Why is that? Because we just don't identify with the people of Iraq like we do the people in London and Madrid. Likewise we don't identify with them enough to see the havoc that our troops have been ordered to create there. I mean there are innocent people who are dying in Iraq everyday.

I just don't knwo what to say. But you are right, IrateCitizen. Your point resonates with me...and should be heard.

Maybe its because we are perpetrating the death and destruction in Fallujah, but attacks on London and Madrid remind us of how fragile our transportation system is. We identify with situations that remind us of threats against us.... but look the other way when it doesn't.
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adarling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. your right
for me everyday is just cause thats what i like to do, my cousin is over there. You didn't hear that from me because i wasn't on DU. Trust me, they hate it over there. Whether you believe or not, i am just so mad and tired over bush and co. I just find alot of this to be very convenient for the chimp.
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. My thoughts are that if you feel you need to take this day for mouning
than by all means, do so. Some of us feel the need to discuss this issue and try and figure out what is really going on. Allow us to do our thing and we will allow you to do yours.
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. This same rationale doesn't hold for the 9/11 attacks
The neocon agenda isn't the cause of terrorist antagonism although it has, belatedly, created additional excuses.

I agree that political dimensions are relevant and need to be discussed -- rationally. Most of what has been thrown up (intentional) into threads this morning is a lot of completely unsubstantiated rumor, tin foil conspiracy bullshit, and frankly, some unseemly and unsympathetic ranting.

That was my .02 counter-rant.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. You're Forgetting the Original Gulf War of 1990
The two attacks on the WTC, the war in Afghanistan, the second Iraq war, the Madrid bombing, and now today's attacks are all related to the original Gulf War in 1990. When we used the Saudi air bases, that alone kicked up a hornet's nest. Ever since then, we've either been attacked or thwarted numerous attacks.

The people of American and Britain have got to learn that this is a new age of warfare. Sure, we can bomb nations at will, but they retaliate through terrorist acts against us.
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Yes, this sort of rational argument is good to see
and I believe you are probably on track. I was arguing against the bullshit threads/comments suggesting Bush is somehow behind these attacks because we need a good "terra" threat to take the heat away from Plame, DSM, etc.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. Wasn't it Mother Jones who said, "Pray for the dead, but fight
like hell for the living."

I'm doing both right now.

The best way to respect the victims of this crime is to hold all those accountable. Bottom to the top.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. I will catapult the propaganda.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 09:48 AM by fasttense
Well I guess it's not propaganda if it is true.

The London explosions would never have happened if brush had captured Bin Ladden. Brush took his eyes off of the culprits in 9/11 and terrorism just continued to flourish.
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Wright Patman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. If "Brush" had wanted to capture (or kill)
bin Laden, he would have. He said in early 2002 that he neither thought much about bin Laden anymore nor cared where he was or what he was up to.

Then bin Laden (or someone looking like his identical twin) appeared on our televisions on Friday, Oct. 29, just a few days before the Nov. 2 election to give the Chimp a bump in the polls, not that he really needed it with all the voting software the GOP owns and controls in key states such as Ohio and Florida.
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. It is definitely politics that caused this attack. The two B's will use..
this to justify what they did in Iraq and the carnage will continue. Will they ever admit they are the cause of the terror. Will they ever admit they invaded another country illegally. Will it ever end.
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. and while we wait...
honoring the dead and injured humans....we dont question the timing of this...sure...with G8, one expects espressed anger...so this timing is just right...to call attention to the horror of these attacks on the innocent...in contrast to the good work of leaders who are there fighting world hunger, etc. this is what bushco said this morning...and the timing was perfect...we all in the world..rally round...and are shocked and praying for the victims of this horrid event and their families and their country. and who benefits...well bush? Blair? we all here knew their would be another attack somewhere...we have been all saying that it is time..and here it is! Maybe this was "them" who did this horrid attack...or maybe it was "us" who did this horrid attack...not a pleasant thought...and perhaps not a nice thing to say out loud...but we...and all of the world...have thought it...and do know that we would not put it past our emperor to do whatever and whenever it takes to strengthen his power..and move on with agenda. It may have been horrid terrorists that did this...it might have been those who "hate us for our freedoms"...but we think it...that maybe it was not "them"....and that says so much...maybe too much about what we know, but it is, like these bombings of innocents...just too horrible to get our minds around...so...we pray for the dead and injured...a much less scary view of the world.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. I thought that DU was a political chat board!
Looks like I was wrong!
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kedrys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
19. Here's my take on this
1. Blair was about to push Bush very hard on Africa and global warming, and said so publicly in advance of the G8 summit. Attacks in London, Blair leaves summit, Bush stays at summit and all eyes are on him again. The thrust of the summit will most likely revert to the "war on terror". Beneficiary from attacks: Bush.

2. The media in the U.S. is finally starting to pick up on the possible (some say probable) involvement of Karl Rove (or other(s) highly-ranked member(s) of the Bush entourage) in the disclosure of Valerie Plame's identity as a government agent. Attacks in London, distraction far from home. Beneficiary from attacks: Bush.

3. Where it may backfire: the British public remains adamantly against Britain's continued involvement in the Iraq war. The London attacks may just be the out Blair, and/or the U.K. government, has been looking for to withdraw troops from what is now an unwinnable guerilla war.

My condolences to the families of all the dead and injured in the London attacks.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Righto! Kedrys...
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
20. I hope someone
(Conyers? Byrd? Schumer? Obama? Durbin? Waters? any-fucking-one?) calls these assholes on it when THEY inevitably politicize today's tragic events.
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Mutley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. The sad but most likely true reality is that if someone on our side
"calls out" the * admin on these theories then the right will only say what some on this very thread have implied; that coming to that conclusion, or even questioning whether that is a valid theory means that we are only trying to link any bad thing we possibly can with *. They will say that we are only playing on a tragedy to further our partisan goals.

I have a gut feeling that * could have had something to do with this. Even if he didn't he certainly stands to gain a lot from these attacks. It all seems very convenient to me in light of the G8 summit, the media attention to CIA, Rove, the DSM, and *'s falling approval rating. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I think all possible avenues should be explored.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
28. The pursuit of truth and justice should NEVER be stifled.
It is the only thing in the long run that will give homage to the
victims of the insane policies of the Bush administration.
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