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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:36 AM
Original message
Why is the IRA being ignored in all this?
Even Galloway is saying this all because of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Isn't it somewhat racist to assume Muslims did this?

Couldn't it be some branch of the IRA coming back to life?
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good question...
Maybe because Al Queada was so quick to take credit for the attack. But...
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:39 AM
Original message
It was some website claiming to be Al Qaeda
I don't think anyone really believed that.

But I can't think of a bombing in London without considering the IRA.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Exactly...
That isn't going to stop the media from beating that well worn drum...
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Self-deleted
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 09:40 AM by theboss
Double posting
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. The IRA gives warnings
these attacks were without warning.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. Someone was warned
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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
29. Correct. IRA tries to avoid civilian casualties.
The IRA (Provos) a few years ago blew the hell out of Canary Wharf, which is kind of the equivalent of the US financial district. The damage was quite extensive if one saw the pictures. The difference between them and Al Qaeda is they did it in the middle of the night - and called the police ahead of time - enough time to clear people out, but not enough to defuse the bomb. Unfortunately two people were killed. But the Irish Republican Army attempted to minimize civilian casualties, in the same way that the US Army attempts to minimize civilian casualties. When the IRA is trying to kill someone, they go after people like Mountbatten, Thatcher, John Major or military targets, sometimes succeeding, sometimes not. The IRA cares what people in the west think of them just as the US army does.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Because, supposededly the Israelis warned London a few minutes
before the blast, saying the Massoud had just learned that London was going to be attacked. Why would the Massoud of Irsrael have word of an IRA attack? It had to have a "Middle East" connection.

TC
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. How can you not know? Don't you remember your posts in THIS thread....
Moderator DU Moderator
Thu Jul-07-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
68. locking

This story has been discredited.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

So, the answer is, no... there is nothing to it.


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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Huh?
How about my post? I don't get it.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Ah, ahem, I get it
Nevermind, it's a misunderstanding. By "that sort of stuff" in the thread you refer to I meant forewarnings in general, not things relating to Israel/Israelis. Anyway, this particular story about the Scotland Yard warning finance minister Netantahu was reported by an Israeli news source but would now appear to not be correct.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. yeah dude, that's it
It could be monkeys that came out of my ass as well. If we're going to deal in "coulds".

You don't know the advanced, black ops built monkey cloning technology that may or may not exist in my ass.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Deleted message
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Do you know for certain that it wasn't a Zoroastrian monk named Vilma?
?????
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Deleted message
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #24
38. Link? I demand PROOF that it wasn't the work of a Zoroastrian monk
named Vilma.
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dolgoruky Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. .
Hate to say this, but that was something which occurred to me also. Maybe Tony Bliar has been picking up some tips from Putin.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #13
34. Deleted message
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Muslims aren't a race
this isn't very IRA like. This is very Islamist terrorist like.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. The IRA gives warnings, and then quickly claims credit
Muslims are not a race-Islam is a religion practiced by many nationalities and races.
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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. Any terrorist attack on any city from now on will be from an Al Queda type
group.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
11. The IRA always give a warning.
They have code words to give Scotland yard when and where they are bombing.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. The IRA has been out of this business for a while, and
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 09:42 AM by Plaid Adder
even at its peak activity, the IRA was not this well-organized.

The IRA has come up a couple times in the discussions I've been listening to but I don't expect it will turn out they're involved.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Here's a question....how come the Brits never....
bombed Ireland to rid the world of the terrorist IRA? How would that have been any different than what we've done in Iraq? Could it be that some sensible Brits realized that wasn't the way to fight terrorism?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. Take a deep breath.....
and tell me if you'll agree that 5,000 lb bombs kill a lot more people, indiscriminately I might add, then ground troops have. And nice how you assume that I don't know history before Y2K...get a grip...I certainly wasn't attempting to diminish the pain and suffering of the people of N. Ireland, but you'd be hard-pressed to convince the rest of the world that the response to terrorism in Iraq (which didn't exist there until after we invaded) is proportional as compared to the British response to the IRA.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. Same reason it was obvious that Madrid was done by AQ instead
of by ETA--it fits AQ's methods perfectly, and is completely inconsistent with the IRA's methods. Morevoer, the IRA has been out of the business for a while.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. I think it Islamic terrorism too
But I just find it odd that it's all assumed at this point.
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HEyHEY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. Because the IRA's military wing has been dormant for years
As well they traget military targets and a muslims group claimed responsibility.
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. Oh, the inverse Madrid argumentation
:eyes:
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. When you start a war, the other side shoots back
The IRA normally calls the police right before a bomb goes off to minimize casualties.

Why would anyone think Britain could be an ally of the US and invade another country that has not attacked it and not be shot back at?

I don't get it.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. AQ is not an Iraqi nationalist movement. 911 happened BEFORE
we invaded Iraq. Jeebus.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
40. Al-Qaeda is not a tightly knit organization
like the IRA either. It's more of a franchise where any crackpot can pick up the name if they want to. I'm sure Iraq has made their recruitment quite a lot easier.

"Al-Qaida", or the original group of Afghan war veterans, has during most of its existence been busy attacking whomever were the target du jour of American or British overt or covert agression in the Muslim world. This may or may not be coincidential, but as far as 9/11 is concerned, the evidence for American collusion at some level is strong enough to be quite convincing to me. Just the fact that one of Bin Laden's closest associates throughout the 90s was Fort Bragg-trained US Special Forces officer Ali Mohamed, a US citizen who had previously been a major in the Egyptian Army unit that killed president Sadat and a member of Ayman al-Zawahiri's Islamic Jihad, should be enough to open people's eyes concerning the origins of the current jihadist international. The world of al-Qai'ida is literally packed with agents provocateurs and double-agents, like the London-based firebrand cleric Abu Qutada who according to English Muslims and French intel has close ties to the MI5. Nowadays, there's scarcely any need for provocateurs - the ball is rolling, so to speak. And Iraq provides all the "provocation" any jihadist could ever have hoped for.

Intelligence services and terrorism experts are currently warning about Iraq turning into a more effective training and recruitment ground for terrorists than Afghanistan ever was. This is a direct result of the war in Iraq whether or not AQ is an Iraqi nationalist movement.
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. It's not their MO
And they've never been slow to take responsibility for bombs. True, it's bad that Muslim terrorism is everyone's first assumption (remember the immediate reaction after Oklahoma?), but, under the current circumstances, it does seem the most likely cause.

By the way, the Muslim Council of Britain "utterly condemns today's indiscriminate acts of terror":

http://www.mcb.org.uk/home.php

as, no doubt, will many other Muslim groups across the world: but that won't get much play in the corporate media.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. And it's probable that some of today's victims are Muslim.
From what I've heard & seen, Londoners are not 100% white Christian. An Irish Nationalist who opposed an IRA bombing campaign long ago pointed out that any bombs in London would likely kill quite a few Irish.

Strategically, bombs are inexact weapons that rarely kill the right people. Do I need to point out the moral objections?

I agree that this attack does not follow the IRA's MO.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
27. That's what I thought when I first heard it
Maybe IRA... Why not?
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. I don't think it is, to be honest
But first thought is Islamic terrorists. But then I said, "Hmmm...IRA maybe?"

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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. I wasn't sure. To me, it could be anything
Could just be some asshole looking to stir up trouble
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
28. It's not the IRA.
I don't think that you mean to, but perhaps you are being "somewhat racist," too. A lack of knowledge about the IRA is apparent in your post.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. I don't think it's the IRA either
I'm just reminded of Oklahoma City when everyone knew it was a Muslim.

I think it's Islamic terrorism too. It's their MO. But I just find it odd how speculation becomes fact in a matter of minutes.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. You have a point.
I would remind you, however, that "Muslims" are not a race. In fact, there are Muslims of every race (if indeed "race" has any meaning).

I think your comment on Oklahoma City is accurate: we don't know right now who it was. However, it is possible to say that we do know who it was not -- and it was not the IRA.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. The "race" thing was a slip
I initially wrote "Arab" then changed it without changing the rest of the sentence. (But Arab is not really a race either).

Anyway, it's just sematics. My point stands.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
44. yeah this has been bugging me too.....
everyone is absolutely positive it's muslim terrorists and it's because of iraq - but there's so much other stuff in confluence.


until the forensics back up the claim of this mysterious "al quaeda in europe" (which still sounds like a restaurant franchise to me, no matter how many times i here it), i'm not buyign it.


it could have been the CIA, it could have been the IRA, it could have been chechens, it could have been really upset anti WTO people, angry parisiens, a loony who jsut wanted to see what would happen....



personally i'm waiting till we know for sure - this bombing is a little too amateurish to me. not the collateral damage we're used to seeing from islamic organizations with well thought out plans. I'm sorry if it seems like i'm making this attack insignificant - i don't mean to, but it's sticking in my craw.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I'm keeping an open mind too, but I'm ready to discount the IRA`
I'm not 100% sold on Islamic fundamentalists being the cause, though I do think that's the prime and obvious suspect. I do, however, think the IRA can be ruled out for a multitude of reasons.
This doesn't fit their M.O. on a variety of points -- it's not a political target, no advanced warning was given, and no claim was made by the Provos that they were responsible.

Also, given Sinn Fein's political situation in Ulster, it would be foolish to allow such an attack to take place.

Also, the Provos haven't staged an attack in at least a decade, though tiny splinter groups such as the Real IRA have -- but none of those groups would be capable of an attack of this magnitude.

So, for al those reasons, I'd say we can certainly rule the IRA out as a prime suspect.
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. i agree.....
the IRA would be least likely at this point....


not so sure about the others I named - altho maybe the chechens would be lower on the list too.
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