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Please explain why the London attacks today are worse than Iraq...

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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:58 AM
Original message
Please explain why the London attacks today are worse than Iraq...
I'm sorry... what happenened today in London is horrible and tragic, but is it any worse than what is happening in Iraq every single day?

Are the people of London more worthy of mourning?

Should I not be angry and pissed?

Should I not blame Bush and Blair, when they have already used this event to politicize for their own purposes?

Please explain... cause I refuse to shut up until these bastards take full blame for what they have done.
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Big Kahuna Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you.
I wanted to say the same thing, but couldn't find the words.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
34. I think there are a significant number of folks here...
I think there are a significant number of folks here
who don't understand what it means to be "at war".
There seems to be a belief that we can go kill
"them" with impunity but when they come here and
kill us, it's somehow a terroristic tragedy.

It isn't, it's just war.

That's how it works.

Each side tries to kill as many people on the other
side as they possible can. And there's usually very
littel concern over whether those killed are direct
combatants, indirect combatants such as the folks
who build munitions, or just plain folks.

We didn't seem to care about such fine details
when it was tens of thousands of civilians (including
kids!) who were vaporized in Hiroshima or Nagasaki
or turned into crisps in Dresden or Tokyo. We don't
seem to care much about the "collateral damage" that
occurs routinely in Iraq and Afghanistan. (Well, we
cared enough to come up with a nice weasel term to
use instead of saying "dead kids".) But we sure do
seem to get into a royal snit when its *OUR* kids
and civilians who are done to death, don't we?

Tesha
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WearyOne Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. they are the same..more innocents die and are injured bcause of the
folly of a handful of sinfull men like Tony Blair and George Bush.

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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I cannot tell you how much I agree
Blair and Bush should be ashamed - we need a Galloway speech
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. Here ya go, hot off the presses
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. That's what I said. This would be considered a good day in Iraq for
the civilian population.

But the British people sure as hell didn't deserve this either. There is no justification to be found anywhere in this situation. The guy on the trains didn't drop a bomb on Falluja, his government was a conspirator in that crime. He was more than likely to have been appalled at what bush** and blair have wrought.

It's always the civilians who suffer most and not those truly responsible.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. They aren't worse
Innocent people dying is the same all over.

I feel for them all. I shed tears for them all.

My anger at my government grows with each new death.
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. War is war.
I just made the same observation to my wife.

Bush invaded and wrecked Iraq in his illegal war. Why should we be surprised that the people he ordered attacked fight back. And why would you ever think that they would follow some kind of 'rules' and only fight in their own country? Shouldn't we have expected that eventually they would bring the war to us?
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. Because white people died while feeding the corporate juggernaut.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:06 AM by ET Awful
If it happened in a third world country with little involvement in world economics, nobody would even take notice.

Let me clarify - it is equally tragic, all loss of innocent life is tragic, but it is no more tragic than deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, Darfur or any other region in turmoil.
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RPM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. we have a winner
yup - that just about sums it up.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
28. ding
ride the subway! ride the subway!
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. Its politically more important. Thats why its getting more attention. It
is also "closer to home" as many DUers are actually in London. Perhaps this can be used to try and get more sympathy and attention for the poor Iraqis. they get one of these a day.

And you are of course right about innocents being killed is equally tragic whoever they are.
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, and on top of all that
We should busy ourselves to recoil from the horror and stop all speculation on who might have commited these acts.

Be mindful and quiet with any political questins. Out of respect. Gee, think that's the kind of resepct the dead would want? Silence?

Couldn't agree with you more. Now the white middle class will take notice, because now it affects THEM, somehow, potentially.

Nevermind those being shot at every day, in their hometowns, just because they live on top of oil. Forget the tragedy of even being born into that nation.

Focus on this horror. But, don't talk about it too much.
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justinsb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. It is worse IMO
Because there are Londoners here. Really it is not, but I'm sure if there were Iraqi's on the forum that attacks on them by the terrorists of the Bush and Blair forces would seem that much worse.
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jmatthan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. I am blogging exactly this

http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
12. The major difference is
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:07 AM by fujiyama
London is much closer to the US.

That's why it strikes closer to home - the US has close cultural, economic, and historical ties with Great Britain.

Either way, this should atleast force Americans to focus on what this nation is doing to innocent people in Iraq.
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CitrusLib Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. Because they look like us.
WASP victims will always generate more sympathy than 'foreigners'. It's pretty much the same reason why white kidnapping/murder victims get air time and minorities don't. If you were to ask most Americans face to face, if an Iraqi child dying is as horrific as an American child dying, they would say, 'Yes'. However, I believe a significant number of Americans (witness the last election) have the inate ability to categorize other nationalities, races, religions, etc. as less significant than their own. Witness the outcry here over Rwanda. Hmmm. Didn't really happen, did it?
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
26. It's not just Americans.
Every group of human beings is innately tribal. Every group of human beings care more about people who look like them, who share their culture and their language, than they do about "others." It's human nature. Sad but true.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. This attack in London shouldn't even be called "terror",
unless we also call what we did to Fallujah, "terror". If Al Qaida lunched this attack and if we are at "war" with them, then this attack is just an episode in that war, like Bush says Iraq is. I agree that innocent civilians do not deserve to be murdered, in Britain or Iraq, but this double standard must not be reinforced by repetition
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Yes, but Dhalgren
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:37 AM by Vladimir
the point is precisely that Fallujah and this are both terror (although Fallujah dwarfs this many times over). And war is just a word for organised terror, now as always...
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I couldn't agree with you more.
The extension of the "good guy/bad guy" false dichotomy to the extent of dismissing the terror, death, and madness experienced by one group while lamenting the inhumanity experienced by the other is sickening. We must, as Human Beings, refuse to dehumanize any group for political advantage. Sorry for the screed...
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
39. No need to apologise
I am with you 100% my friend.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Good point. Very good point.
I mean, if we are "at war" then this is a counter attack against one of our allies, who is also "at war" with them.

I'm not justifying it, as I'm sure you aren't either.

But, using Bush's logic and rhetoric, its just "war".

Right?
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's part of the same cycle
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:08 AM by Frederik
of senseless death and violence. Bush and Blair today both emphasized how the fight must go on, we will win and they will lose etc. The idea seems to be that if you kill enough people, "our side" will eventually come out victorious. Blair talked about "all civilized nations", which I found offensive. Which nations are not civilized? Bush talked about "spreading an ideology of hope and compassion", which I assume will be spread from the barrel of a gun. The message is clear from all fronts: the clash of civilizations shall proceed.
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Beaver Tail Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. Hypocrites
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:18 AM by Beaver Tail
snip

The Queen said she was "deeply shocked" and sent her sympathy to those affected.

snip

He said it was an "indiscriminate" attempt at slaughter with no consideration for age or religion.

Guess they have not been paying attention to what is going on in Iraq

If they (the British Gov)were suprised they must have been keeping their eyes closed. It was just a matter of time before London was attacked. There will be more attacks like this.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. no favorites, I am equally saddened and heartbroken,
& my heart breaks daily
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
18. At least
The deaths and injuries in London will be counted. The dead will be mourned and properly buried. The injured will be competently tended to.
This is a sad day for us all...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. A cycle of violence has been ignited.
Sadly. The corporateers' policies don't work. To the contrary, their policies have incited full-scale opposition around the world. They have gotta' go before they create further harm.
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lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. worse than Iraq or a consequence of Iraq?
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. More of the same.
Because I know London well and have family connections, it's affected me more directly, but I certainly wouldn't say it's worse than what innocent Iraqis have gone through.

You absolutely should blame B&B. Their policies caused and/or failed to prevent ALL these deaths.
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Kraklen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
24. People are racist.
It's that simple.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. the attitude is racist
an important distinction, because attitudes can be changed.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
30. They're not
THOUSANDS die in Iraq every day. Only about fourty people died in London. It was a horrible ordeal. But it's not any better then Iraq. Anybody who says other wise is a heartless asshole.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
31. Enough...
Enopugh of the self righteous soap box bullshit.

Hardly anyone here deals with threads on daily Iraqi violence.

There are a few to be sure but not many.

What's worse responding to a recent tragedy?

Or hypocritically arguing that those responding don't repond to other tragedies?

DU just mkaes me sick sometimes.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. That isn't it though
It is the calls from some to muzzle others with the demand that any discussion indicates a lack of respect.

That makes me sick because it the same exact attitude that followed in the wake of 911--"you are either with us or against us" if you do not conform to said modes of behavior and attitude.


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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I understand anger at those saying shut up...
...that's wrong.

I don't think there is any set mode of behavior. But the self righteous "you don't care as much for the Iraqis" crap when directed at DU members is a bunch of bullshit. I can understand that viritrol directed at Bush etc but people here?
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. some people here actually support the war
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
32. people are people
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
33. People in Iraq are "used to it", dontchaknow?
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dolgoruky Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Chickens come home to roost
Bet those bombs today were nothing compared to the cruise missiles they launched on Baghdad. At least they didn't kill kids.
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