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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:52 AM
Original message
I am terrified...
of Bush and the awesome might of the PNAC. They are the devil.
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hmmm -
are you thinking what I'm thinking?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. What can we really do...
these are the times when I feel powerless. I feel no politician or activism can help us against something so diabolical that most people cannot conceive of its existence, let alone its goal.
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Sannum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. me too.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 07:54 AM by Sannum
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. Even the devil was defeated....
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mackdaddy Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. But he has led an effective on-going insurgency... n/t
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Who Shrub or the Devil
I get confused as to who is who
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yy4me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. Help me here
I'm a newbee to DU, please explain your thoughts, I don't know yet how to read between your lines. Thanks
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Welcome to the DU yy
Just hang in there and keep reading this is an awesome place. You will get the hang of it. There isn't that much talking between the lines here, pretty straight forward.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. PNAC...
is Project For The New American Century. Check out what Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and other names you've probably heard have in store for the world. It's all right there in black and white. They have already told us there plans. As Randi Rhodes says "when people tell you who they are believe them."

<http://www.newamericancentury.org />

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
31. Just like Hitler told everyone in his best seller!
If You Dare...

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf /

Nobody took all that(Mein Kampf)serious either! Until it was too late!
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. What gets me about PNAC is they have the audacity to post
their mission on the Internet as if it is something to be proud of. Sounds pretty evil to me.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Then work for change
I will never cede my country or my liberties to these bastards.

Courage and keep your eyes on the prize. We can and will win over these bastards.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Change How?
I write my Congresspeople, I work for an advocacy group, I have a newsletter, I am a democratic district leader, I bend the ear of anybody I can get a hold of. The scary thing is, when I do my democratic district work, 97% of democrats have no idea what is happening, 95% don't care. FRUSTRATED
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. All movements take time
The Rethugs have been working for their plan and been spreading their lies for 40+ years. (Actually I date it back to the end of WWII and certainly since McCarthy, but I digress.)

We have to catch up. It will take years to get another message out to the American people. Nothing happens easily and nothing happens overnight. Eyes on the prize and keep working. What other choice would you make? Give up? Stop fighting and let them win? If that was the case there wouldn't be the angst in your writing that I detect. Yes, this is difficult, the Rethug poison has spread wide and deep. But it would be even worse without people like yourself who commit to change.

And when the shit gets too thick and the cause looks hopeless, come and hang out with other people who feel as you do. Get a battery recharge and then go out and do it again. (Not idle words. I have lost a house, two jobs and numerous other things in life. I recovered. This is no idle chit-chat from someone who hasn't had to pay a price. I have. Still here, still fighting.)

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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Sometimes I want to pull my hair out
sometimes I just want to cry. Sorry to be so negative, but I feel so small today.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Eyes on the Prize, my friend
That is all that you can do. You are not responsible for the ills of the world. You are responsible for what you can actually do, nothing more. (Despair is what happens when you assign yourself a greter role than you can actually pull off. Avoid this at all costs, it will damage your soul.)

One person at a time. One event at a time. That's how it's done. If one in 50 people had changed their votes last time (fraud not withstanding) the results would be different. That's it. I'm just looking for the 1 in 50, not the other 49. Focus and keep going.

And I got a shoulder right here if you need it to lean on. I know that the favor will be returned someday, when needed.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Thanks, I needed to hear that bigtime.
I appreciate it more than you could ever know. Erica
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libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I strongly believe
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 08:09 AM by libhill
and you can call it a premonition or whatever, that the tide is about to turn against the repukes and neocons. Slowly but surely, the American public is waking up to the fact that they have been had by the repukes. College Republicans paying lip service to the war, but refusing to put their own assess on the line, soaring gas prices, tax cuts that only benefit the super rich, the Iraqi quagmire, revelations of torture and abuse at Gitmo and elsewhere - this is about to turn around and bite these bastards right in the ass, you mark my words. I just feel it coming.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
libhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. I have a nagging suspicion
n/t
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getmeouttahere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. I don't think they care if the final concept is ever achieved...
as long as all that blood money is going to their cronies at Halliburton & others, they will be satisfied. What other explanation could there be for putting the country on the brink of destruction? They don't ever have to fire a shot, or subject themselves to enemy fire, nor do their loved ones, and they will have so much money that a depression in this country would never affect them. So they will continue to send other people's children to do their dirty work, while they stockpile the cash so they can ride out whatever misfortune they have wrought.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. there's the rub
Along with the true believers you have the people who just like to rig the game. I would say Wolfowitz is a true believer, but Cheney isn't. Wolfie is the father of the PNAC ideology. He's hardcore and a legitimately brilliant man in certain aspects. But, the idea of promoting democracy at the end of a gun, is the mother of all fuck ups. See, Wolfie is a Reaganite. A rhetorical Cold Warrior. They believe that all the tough talk and the "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" talk single handedly won the Cold War. Apply that and the concept of a major military build up and constabulary duties (military being used as police) and you can see what the PNACers are getting at. Remember Nicaragua and El Salvador? Reagan neglected human rights and utilized right-wing regimes that simply weren't Communists, to promote stability and democracy.(a fixed election democracy but elections would be held) Of course, Nicaragua never fell until 1990, but the same idea is there. We use our military might to go in and fight fundamentalism like Reagan did Communism and then we occupy the country while we privatize everything and set up elections. Wolfowitz is a believer that preemptive war to modernize and reform Islam will work, by promoting Democracy and American ideals. Wolfie is a dreamer. That's why he doesn't fit in with the realpolitik foreign policy mold of guys like Brent Scowcroft, Zbigniew Brzezinksi and Richard Holbrooke. They are realists, he's a radical dreamer. A big problem with PNAC is you have a guy like Dick Cheney involved. Cheney is a hard-liner. He also doesn't care about the idealism that Wolfie or a Bill Kristol does. Cheney is a vampire who wants to latch on to oil, water, electricity and privatize it all. He sees Iraq as an archaic economy that we can open up and exploit. That is why Jay Garner was canned when he wanted to hold immediate elections two years ago. Jerry Bremer was brought in to do the economic dirty work. Privatize everything, write intellectual property into protection etc. We were picking up intellectual property rights before we were even setting up the transitional handover, much less elections. That's ridiculous. Now you wonder why Wolfie was ousted from the Deputy job at the Pentagon and ushered into the World Bank. Well, it may have been because as a dreamer, Wolfie wasn't as keen on raping and pillaging the country as Dick Cheney was. I heard reports that the Neo-Cons were losing a battle with big business within the administration regarding resources in Iraq. Robert Zoellick, Wolfie's replacement, used to be our Trade rep. He's a big privatizer and deregulator. He's competent, intelligent and a complete free-market big business guy.

He'll help guys like Cheney get what they want out of Iraq.

Iraq's Cheney's cash cow. He saw it that way the whole time. Other PNACers saw it as the beginning of a dream. Sure, it's a radical, foolish, even borderline evil concept, but the True Believers had a vision.

The others just have a bank account.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. That's precisely what I think the goal is...
money. And power. It sounds so crazy though, I know many people here know more about it than me. What I am referring to when I refer to the PNAC is the ideology of greed and power. And the ability to manipulate many different avenues to achieve those ends.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. I've been around here since the beginning of DU...
...and I don't understand this thread.

--IMM
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. LOL, I was reading along, got to yours (the last) post
and laughed.

Exactly how I felt!

:toast:

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soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Oh good.
A sub-thread of 'I don't understand this thread'. Apparently, I'm in good company.

Why am I even posting? another mystery. :shrug:
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. so do I make sense?
:shrug:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Why not? nt
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. It's the 'let's tell everyone to give up, make everyone so depressed they
cut their own throats, might as well lay back & enjoy the rape thread'!

Been a whole lotta them around here, lately. Is this a new phenomena or have there always been doom & gloomers haunting these halls?

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. That's a little better.
I'd like to have seen this farther up the thread.

--IMM
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. I swear if I typed out all that stuff for some Freepers and Bitchers I'll
:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
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theearthisround Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
25. Look on the bright side, it could be worse...
Prior knowledge has come out within an hour, thats pretty brutal.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050707/ap...

"British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said."

I'de say they're the ones who should be terrified.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
33. Maybe I'm not as linguistically gifted as some
people here, but I am not expressing anything besides my opinion. You haven't wasted your time on a freeper, maybe just somebody not as able to express themselves as you. Sorry. Still new, but I will refrain from starting threads until I am more succint. I apologize. Erica
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Don't Apologize, Erica
However, DU is a quite feisty place. Doom & gloom posts are seldom met with favor. There's a lot more people here who would rather fight, and surrender is not considered an admirable option.

I can appreciate your feelings of depression right now, but i don't share them. It's only been 5 years. Countries move at the pace of a glacier. We're not in a revolution, so all your work is not going to provide results in an instant.

All we can do is make sure people are aware of the things that this administration and congress have done and the wrong paths they are leading us down. We can't force people to care. We can only make them see the facts. We can't force people to change their mind. We can only give them enough to think about and a reason to change their mind. After all, there's 300 million of us.


The Professor
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ncrainbowgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Hi Erica, welcome to DU!!!
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 10:29 AM by ncrainbowgrrl
Glad you're here, and it takes real courage to jump right into the the thick of things and post a new thread! I applaud you on your eagerness to participate! :-) Welcome again, and I hope you're going to continue to post!! :hi:

-ncrainbowgrrl
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