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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:54 AM
Original message
Backlash will come from the UK public.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 05:54 AM by dutchdemocrat
It was utter folly to support Dubya in his 'crusade'.

Blair may well resign for this paving the way for Brown to take over and sit squarely on the fence. Expect increased troop withdrawals and better relations with the rest of the EU.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. i don't think blair will resign
at least not now

it is up to the people in the UK to let them know how they feel

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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think the backlash will be against the EU, not the USA n/t
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. How on earth do you get that?
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Britain is a skeptical member of the EU
It has less in common with the continent than with the US, Canada and the Commonwealth.

This is going to heighten tensions to clamp down on immigration from Europe and the Middle East, which was a major campaign issue in the recent campaign. When they find al Qaeda involvement, there will be a major initiative to cut down on migration by EU nationals of mid-eastern origin with ties to Islamic extremism.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. No it does not have less in common. The eurosceptics would like
you to believe that to be the case but the only think we have in common across the atlantic is language. Although i accept that the more rabid of the right wing press will call for withdrawal or closure of borders to other EU countries.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I live here
I know what the actual climate is like.

You are incorrect. EU relations are a huge issue and the British people are EUROSKEPTICS. Always have been. Since the attack was co-ordinated from a European jihad group (which takes credit for it), that skepticism will only grow.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. I live in Europe
And lived in London for several years. I disagree.

There are lots of groups taking claim at this point.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. London isn't the UK by itself.
And even in London, opposition to immigration from Europe is very high.

They'll pin this on "open borders with Europe" and it will stick.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. Are you British or American? I'm not sure who you've been hanging around
with but in no way will this be blamed on open borders with the EU. For the simple reason that we don't have them. Many EU countries are in the "Schengen agreement" which results in borderless road and rail links. We are not. Border control is tight and has nothing to do with the EU.

I think you are wildly misjudging the "climate" or views of the British
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Ever travel between Britain and the continent on a UK passport?
They often don't even check your picture -- just wave you through. Ditto at Heathrow.

Border control and immigration is a hot topic here, this event will only increase the controversy.
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Do you support closing the borders?
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bennywhale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. So do I. And i think you jump to too many conclusions about our
fellow countrymen. We British may be marginally more eurosceptic but they are also cynical, rational and stoical and will not begin folloewing any wild attempt to blame this on the EU. btw how do you know it was a European group. It has just happened.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why the EU Brian?
That's a curious statement. The UK has it's own immigration agenda and network of terrorists quite unrelated to the EU.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Why on Earth would that be the case?
This is Bush's fault, terrorism has increased due to this war.

PS I'm glad you're Ok Brian.
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Monkie Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. you think the British will react differently than those in Spain?
after Madrid the Spanish people in general blamed their government at least as much as the terrorists.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. exactly
n/t
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mrfrapp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
27. I don't know if that's true
The response of the Spanish was due to Prime Minister Aznar lying about who was responsible.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. I am still interested to know
Why you feel the EU is to blame Brian.
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Have to disagree
They blame the US for the rise in terrorism. They aren't as stupid and blinded as we are. They know Iraq was all a lie, and publicly ridiculed Blair over it. They know it's because of what we are and what we did that they've been attacked. I can't see how this won't be a backlash against the US. There is no one else to blame, except "terrorist groups", which aren't a very satisfying target, as compared to our own empire-building nation-crushing bomb-using undeclared war-making machine.

In the end, it's going to be a pretty popular thing to do, imho, blaming us. Won't be any challange at all, I think the bandwagon will be full. And who can argue?

It won't even matter if another government is not much better or even worse than us, politically, because in joining together against us, they'll be speaking FOR humanity, on the side of the right. Standing together facing evil. Castro could look good, Putin comes off as a humanitarian, and North Korea starts looking more human. The evil Americans; and aren't we? Is there anything we HAVEN'T done? We wield seemingly limitless power and strive for more, always. We have shown ourselves to be dangerous, willing to kill innocents that are no threat to us, and it doesn't matter if we caused the terrorism actions/danger directly, or through mismanagement; it's our fault, and the whole world knows it.

Not a question of if. A question of when.
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YDogg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
8. They damn well ought to have Blair's head;
history will not remember him kindly, methinks. Or Bush the Asshole.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. I mentioned in an earlier post that Blair is toast.
Surely Labour will go about removing Blair as a result with what has happened today. He went along with Bush and the British people now are paying for Blair's severe error of judgement. He should stand down.


John
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. I wouldn't think so
It's not the reaction I'd expect - while this is another example of what was wrong with invading Iraq, Britain didn't chuck out politicians because of IRA bombing , for instance. When they finally did get talks going, the politicians did get some credit. But while it's going on, bombing will be regarded as something to be endured.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. Blair is shaken.... very Bushian right now in his speech.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. he should be shaken, damn it!
bush/blair invite the violence then act surprised.

well, surprise!
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. BULLSHIT
Nobody "invited violence."

I wish you people would take your fucking "they deserve it" politics elsewhere. If you'd been on that train, your obnoxious politics would be very, very different right about now as the burnt ragged remains of your face cling tenuously to your skull.

Jesus Christ, have some HUMANITY.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. We have humanity, we lived through sept11 but lost friends and
family

we also lost our innocence and our trust in government

that is where we are coming from and where you will be eventually


I don't mean to sound crass or harsh, just bringing reality
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. You're right
the victims didn't invite violence or deserve it, but it was somewhat predictable that US & UK govt decisions may lead to retaliation (and that govts that made different decisions would not receive such retaliation).

Anyway, let's wait and see what the victims say, I guess they have more of a right to tell it how they see it.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
17. Jihadists from Europe have taken the credit for the attack
This will be used to further divide the UK (which is Euroskeptical) from Europe. Nobody in Britain wants close ties with countries like Holland and France that are knuckling under to jihad.
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Brian I think you are talking rubbish
There is no reason to imagine that there will be a backlash against Europe.

Can everyone please stop speculating? It can't possibly do any good.
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Do you live here in Britain?
If not, what basis do you have to speculate?
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Yes, I do
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Brian_Expat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. And have you been following immigration politics? n/t
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. self deleted
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 07:06 AM by julianer
responded to wrong person on wrong thread (apart from that all was well!).
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Sorry
about the inappropriate reply - too much typing on too many threads.

The immigration issue here is not exactly explosive is it? Didn't the tories play that for all it was worth in the election and didn't they do very badly?
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
38. What on earth do you mean?
"countries like Holland and France that are knuckling under to jihad."

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
20. The only question now...
...is who will be the first to call for a vote of no confidence.
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julianer Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Blair is very unlikely to be in immediate political
trouble because of this. Quite the reverse, in the short term at least.

It very much depends on how he reacts and what agenda he tries to roll out as a result of this.

It is not the same situation as in Spain. There Aznar tried to blame ETA for purely political reasons. That is what outraged the Spanish people. Blair doesn't have any reason to blame the Real IRA, for example, unless it was them.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
23. True. The best thing we have going for us in England is that the public
isn't American. They will keep level heads and THEY will tell the media was to say and write.
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