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Susan McDougal spent two years in prison for contempt?

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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:20 PM
Original message
Susan McDougal spent two years in prison for contempt?
Is that correct?

And Miller has to do four months?

I'm confused :shrug:
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not exactly. She spent 2 years in jail because she told the truth
and what's his name didn't believe her. So until she told him what he wanted to hear - regardless of the truth of it - she stayed in jail.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Pathetic
How sad. She told the truth and still went to jail. :mad: Assholes. And another DUer mentioned how Clinton didn't pardon her either even though they were all friends. Is that true too?
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I heard her on some show
and I got the impression she didn't want a pardon since she did nothing wrong. She still thinks highly of Clinton. She did 'hard' time too, no country club jail. They wanted her to lie and she held strong. Quite a woman she is.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. she wore clothing assigned to child killers
That's always stuck out at me and shows just how vindictive Ken Starr was.
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. You are so right, I'll never forget what they did to ...
Susan. Never missed a chance to bring her in camera range dressed in the orange jump suit, wrist irons and chained, FGS. Why is it only women seem to go to jail. Usually, innocent ones at that. :mad:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I agree
I saw her interview on the "Hunting of the President" documentary I got for Christmas and her experience was horrible! She was telling about the ride to the jail and didn't they rape her?
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Susan McDougal was pardoned
>And another DUer mentioned how Clinton didn't pardon her either even though they were all friends.<

Her pardon was one of the ones that occurred as Bill Clinton was leaving office. Susan said she was surprised, as she wasn't expecting it. If you want more information about her, please pick up her book, "The Woman That Wouldn't Talk".

DH and I were lucky enough to meet Susan in Seattle a couple of years ago while she was on her book tour. What a completely tremendous woman. I will never, ever forget the last thing she said during her lecture. The sheriff had told her the day she arrived in prison that nobody cared about her, she was trash, just like all of the other prisoners. Everyone had forgotten about her, he insisted. Three days later, 50,000 pieces of mail showed up, just for her. I also will never forget that she was in tears while thanking the crowd for coming to listen to what she had to say.

I can only hope we will get to see her again soon, and Susan, if you read DU, you have friends in Seattle.

Julie
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. I too attended those Seattle book-signings,
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 04:02 AM by pnorman
at Borders and later on the one at Elliot Bay Books. (Somehow I screwed up the instructions for the meet at the bar & grill afterwards). I seem to recall that former Governor Mike Lowrey was at the first one.

You're right; she was very impressive and COMPELLING. Very few people have impressed me with such sincerity on the first meet. When she signed my copy of the book, she wrote quite a lengthy paragraph on the title page. I imagine she did the same with all the others there. She doesn't deal in half measures, and I'm proud to be on the same side she is on (glad too; I don't think I could look myself in the eye otherwise).

pnorman
On edit: Reading all the other posts in this thread, I'm also proud to be on the same side as my fellow DUers).
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I know that..
It just seems so unfair. Both were jailed for contempt. Susan gets 2 years and Miller only gets 4 months.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. McDougal was cited and sentenced again and again
If I remember correctly.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. And Miller didn't have the chains on her feet either.
Edited on Wed Jul-06-05 11:23 PM by cat_girl25
Fucking Ken Starr.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Cllinton pardoned her as he was leaving office
I thought she was charged with obstruction of justice. She said something like she refused to say she had sex with Clinton. Starr had lined up another witness to say she had. She refused to answer the question in court because she knew it was a perjury trap. I guess that refusal led to the contempt charge. However, conviction on a perjury charge would have probably led to a longer confinement. Susan McDougal said she could have gotten out of prison any time if she would just say what Starr wanted to hear -- I had sex with Bill Clinton.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-06-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. She was brave
She was so brave for standing up what was right. All of them were.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. No, I don't think it was about that
not about whether or not she had sex with Bill Clinton. It was more substantive than that, or included much more substantive issues, though it WAS a perjury trap and she was bright enough to know it.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. I don't know what the deal is here,
but some contempt sentences are for a length of time or until the person complies with the judge's order. It is possible that Ms. Miller's sentence could be extended if she does not cooperate within four months. We shall see. Bush is going to pay a very high political price if he does not somehow "persuade" all suspects to voluntarily 'fess up. Of course, each suspect has the right under law not to incriminate themselves, but it is difficult to justify their invoking that right to avoid a charge of abusing the powers of their offices. It's legal to invoke the 5th, but not politically smart.
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm giving this thread a little kick in the name of Susan McDougal.
Everyone needs to remember this woman as they show sympathy for Judith Miller. The difference in the two women is like night and day; Susan was jailed for telling the truth and Judith is jailed for keeping her mouth shut. I want justice in this case, and I'm hoping Susan is smiling a little today. You rock, girl.
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AmandaRuth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
15. kick and nominated
I am steaming, I was just listening to the radio, all this blah blah blah about the press should have privileges to protect their sources, when we all know that that the press is long dead and gone, and is nothing but a propaganda arm on the repug party, especially in this case - I had completely forgotten about Susan McDougal, and what a hero she is, and what a nightmare she endured - Just another effing example of what happens to those who wear a D opposed to those who wear a R. God this pisses me off.
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Lori Price CLG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Excellent post, great point. n/t
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
17. Recommended
Jailed for refusing to lie - jailed by the same psychopaths and monsters who now have siezed state power.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. That's right. She held it together through the whole
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 01:14 AM by sfexpat2000
witch hunt. Hats permanently off to that lady. She has a spine.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. We all too often think of heroes as "superhuman."
Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 01:38 AM by ConsAreLiars
And there are some remarkable examples of people who have done far more than we can imagine ever doing -- people like MLK or RFK or Mandela or Ghandi -- but she reminds us all that simply telling the truth, refusing to lie, is a an act of heroism. On a smaller scale, but every bit as worthy. The fact that she took up the cause of, and told the truth about, imprisoned women, shows she has not only a spine but a heart.

(edit typos)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Agree. Mr. sfexpat got to meet her one morning when they
where both doing the same radio station. That was cool.
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BikeWriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
18. Recommended
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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
19. I forgot about that...
it was such a horrible thing I didn't want to remember.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
20. From my understanding of the law...
A person held in contempt durring an on going Grand Jury investigation can only be held as long as that grand jury is in session.....

So, Susan M must have been called as a witness atthe very start of that particular grand jury and then held for as long as that jury remianed in session.

The Grand Jury established to investigate the Plume affair is scheduled to end sometime in October. Miller could be held longer if that Grand Jury is realled or if the length of the investigation is extended.....
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
21. Read her book... it is well written and will 'rock your world'.
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AmandaRuth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. It is the difference in HOW they are being treated
Susan led out in cuffs - hard time - made to wear clothing that identified her as a murderer, being spat on and masturbated on in the bus to jail -

Judy is going to the golf course country club probation center.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
26. Susan McDougal
came here to KC a while back to talk about her book, and she got a standing ovation at the beginning and end of her talk. She's an amazing woman, who refused to lie for Kenneth Starr. And she was bitterly angry that the prosecutor had completely reneged on his promises to her ex-husband Jim McDougal. Jim had lied for the prosecutor, expecting to serve easy time and was guaranteed medical treatment for his many illnesses. Instead, he served fairly hard time, and was allowed to die in his cell, untreated and begging for a doctor.

She was herself treated very badly for those two years, moved around from prison to prison, and for several months kept in isolation which was completely unwarranted. When she finally came up in front of a judge who reviewed her case, he was so incensed that she'd been imprisoned at all that he set her free immediately, and she then asked permission to return to say goodbye to fellow inmates. When there was a trial a year or so later, the jury was so incensed at what was done to her that they clearly would have jailed Kenneth Starr if they'd had the authority to do so.

Do read her book.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. This is what is wrong with the Grand Jury process. People like
Ken Starr become able to operate outside the justice system. In the grand jury case that I helped investigate here in Florida, according to one of the persons that was not being investigated at the start, but ended up being indicted, he was offered a deal. If he told the grand jury what the prosecutor wanted him to, he would go free, if not, he would be indicted. He was indicted. Then a five year nightmare began, as a case, which could not be substantiated was thrown out of Florida courts and finally ended being thrown out twice by the Florida Supreme Court.

He is forever branded while the Grand Jury Secret Presentment was forever sealed by the Supreme Court as a fabrication of lies, rumors and hearsay.

What happened to the prosecutor? Nothing. He has immunity.

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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
28. You beat me to it-- i was just about to bring this up n/t
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-05 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
31. And Novac should be in leg irons
Seriously. Miller didn't even publish.
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