Father of two soldiers killed goes after Rove.....Audio

[Roxy66]

This is so very sad to listen to, but he basically says how dare you critisize liberals.....his sons wanted to serve our country and go after the people who caused 9/11...and they died in Bush's War...courtesy of Crooks and Liars

http://airamericaradio.com/layout.asp?baseurl=RandiRhodes/6-23-05/RandiRhodes.wma

[Tsiyu]

1. kick

[LightningFlash]

2. Rove is getting beaten on from every direction....Now back to the DSM>>>>

:yourock:

[Island Blue]

5. I hope this gentleman and many like him

will join Cindy Sheehan and other soldier's parents and fight to have the DSM exposed to the light. These voices are so powerful - many people can't relate to members of congress (or think they always have ulterior motives) but most people can relate to a grieving parent, widow, etc. (Or they can at least put themselves in the grieving person's shoes.)

[daleo]

3. Poor guy. n/t

[PuraVidaDreamin]

4. Rove and O'Reilly are HURTING America!

Please people TURN OFF Fox!

[awoke_in_2003]

6. He makes two real good points...

Repubs should send their kids to fight, too, and the shame the way our troops are supplied. Talking about bush sending the twins to Iraq to replace his sons: "their daddy's got enough money to buy their armor for them already". Great audio.

[tsuki]

7. What have the Joe Brothers (Biden & Lieberman) had to say

about Rove's ego-stroke? I can't remember.

[Patty Diana]

9. these faux democrats have said zero about rove or the DSM

[FightinNewDem]

17. That's a damn lie

Letter to Rove signed by NY, NJ, CT senators asks for immediate retraction of Rove’s divisive comments to fundraiser in heart of NYC

WASHINGTON – Senator Joe Lieberman today joined Senator Chris Dodd and their colleagues from New York and New Jersey in calling on chief White House Advisor Karl Rove to retract his divisive partisan comments that exploited the memories of the 9/11 victims at a conservative fundraiser. In a letter to Rove today the senators asked Rove to retract his comment that “liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.”

http://lieberman.senate.gov/newsroom/letters/052306roveltr.pdf

[burythehatchet]

16. They've reminded people how wonderful they would be as president

The Joe patrol can kiss my ass. I can honestly say that if a DLCer is ever the Democratic nominee, I will simply give up.

[MUAD_DIB]

8. These people are the real heros of the day...

They have enough conviction to stand up to the monkey-god & co., regardless of their loss, and tell it like it is.


And the obedient press ignores these parents and focuses on the Runaway Bride and Michael Jackson.

May they all hang their heads in shame.

[Coexist]

10. oh my gosh - I am crying

this needs to be heard by everyone in this country who agrees with Rove.

[katinmn]

36. I know. I cried too.

Did you read the thread yesterday about the Young Republicans Convention? A reporter asked attendees how they felt about the war and if they were going to enlist.

While the majority (surprise)support the war, they do not plan to enlist. Instead, they prefer to work on supporting the troops through politics and such. Yeah, right.

These chickenshit asses. They ought to sign up or shut up.

[For PaisAn]

11. kick

Wish everyone in America could here this.

[I Have A Dream]

12. Be certain to also listen to the guy after the father.

He has a wonderful quote from Theodore Roosevelt that I personally had never heard.

Thank you so much for this thread. I was so proud of the father for being one of us, and my heart hurts for him. :cry:

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Too bad the guy is lying

No two siblings have been killed in Iraq.

The guy is making it up.

[I Have A Dream]

18. Hmmm.

Interesting.

[Windy]

20. That's not true at all!

If both of his sons enlisted, why couldn't both have been killed in combat? Its not the draft! (yet)

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Oh, they "could have" - but they didn't: NO siblings have been killed in

Iraq.

That's a fact, regardless of what is "possible."

The guy is a liar, and probably a compulsive liar, since this is precisely the kind of lie a compulsive liar would tell.

[seabeyond]

22. i would like to know if it is a fact adn if this man is lying

please prove to me your fact. does absolutely no good to say fact without evidence. otherwise it isnt fact it is merely someone mouthing off

[wryter2000]

26. What if one wasn't "combat related"?

BushCo has tried to call some deaths "accidental." If one of his sons died in something not "combat related," his name might not appear on the list of 1,700

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Absolutely false

the 1738 includes non-combat related fatalities.

You're just wrong about that. Check www.icasualties.org , go to "Fatality Details," click on the "Cause" filter drop-down arrow and look at all the non-hostile deaths.

The only case of two brothers dying in any connection to the Iraq war is the 1 soldier who was killed in Iraq, and his brother, who was a reserve soldier and due to be shipped to Iraq, who killed himself by stepping in front of a truck (stateside, mind you) after his brother's death.

There is no other case of siblings killed in Iraq, and I defy anyone to find any mention of siblings killed in Iraq anywhere else.

[wryter2000]

41. What are you using for "sibling"? The last name? n/t

n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. I'm using sibling in the broadest possible sense

Including blood siblings (same parents), half-, step-, differently-named blood, and any other variation of two people who have parents in common through blood or marriage.

[katinmn]

30. Um, the boys could be half brothers with diffferent last names

Not too uncommon.

[alcibiades_mystery]

34. Ummm

I still think we would have heard something about it, at least from local media. My claim does not rule out half-brothers, in any case. But for clarification, no two siblings, half, step, natural, country cousins or otherwise have been killed in Iraq.

[stlsaxman]

14. Heard K.C. (Casey?) in FL live when he called in...

i got so friggin' pissed off and and began cursing this heartless administration between gasps and tears for EVERYONE of my brothers and sisters and their parents and children who gave the ultimate sacrifice for a war (Iraq) which turned out to be based on a pack of lies.

We are with you, K.C. in FL, with whole heart, body and soul.

[Independent_Liberal]

15. It's good to see more and more people getting pissed at Rove!

He's in hot water for sure!

[Spiffarino]

19. Have to agree with earlier post. This rang my BS detector.

It's just a little too perfect. I think it's either some deluded guy or it's the dark side's attempt to discredit liberal radio. Either way, it isn't helpful. Randi needs to do a little checking before giving too much credence to this story.

[stlsaxman]

23. But it doesn't seem at all impossible or implausable...

that two brothers should go active from the reserves, does it?

I'd not underestimate Randi's "BS detector", it's set on a hair-trigger. Sometimes it seems to go off too quickly. That is my only beef about her show.

When she asked if he lost both boys- "yes ma'am- and the first one- well- i have a hard time dealing with it- dealing on a daily basis... (choking back tears)"... it sounded as genuine as is humanly possible.

on edit- i'd like to see "that earlier poster" back up his accusations with a link.

[LynnTheDem]

48. Speaking of choking on tears; US senators talking about incubator babies

before the vote for Gulf War 1991. Americans choking back tears over Hussein's "woodchipper", the poor Iraqi woman who was raped by, and husband murdered by, Hussein. Etc.

All lies, of course.

[I Have A Dream]

24. The only thing that seemed weird to me was that he didn't...

mention that they were dead until Randi asked if they had died.

I don't know whether this is true or not. However, I did think that this was odd.

I'm going to listen again to see if he uses the present tense when he describes them at the beginning of the call.


On Edit: I listened to the beginning again, and he is talking as though they're no longer alive. (He said that his kids "went", and other similar things.) I hear real emotion in his voice, so I think that he's telling the truth at least about his having two sons there.

[wryter2000]

25. I heard that when it happened

Rove, Bush, et al. should be made to face Casey on national TV and explain themselves. That poor man. :cry:

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. I would love to see K.C. come out in public with photos of his two "lost"

sons.

I really would.

I'd be interested in confirmation on his outlandish story.

[stlsaxman]

32. Waitaminute here-

You are the one calling HIM a liar...

As the accused it's not HIS job to prove what he said was true or not, rather-
as the accuser it's YOUR responsiblitiy to DISPROVE what he said- and you have not.

what's more, I don't think you can. Got a DoD link? That's all it would take.

>"No two siblings have been killed in Iraq."

>"The guy is making it up."

okay- prove it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. You got me. It is no fact.

A person with common sense would assume that such an event would be covered...by local media at the very least. But there is no such case. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Since there has never been any mention at all of that, I'm assuming it never happened. Yes. Assuming. You caught me. Just as I assume that no Father-Daughter combination has been killed in Iraq, and no Grandmother-Granddaughter combination has been killed in Iraq, and no Nephew-Uncle combination has been killed in Iraq - because if it happened it would be a news story, and since it is no news story, it probably never happened. Common sense. Oh, and the fact that there is not even the hint of a shred of evidence that it did happen. Yet other DUers are intent on believing it because they want to believe it, and gfor no other reason (how could it be for another reason, when there was no evidence provided at all?)

Now let's look at the supposed gospel truth of the fucking Florida liar K.C. Does he name his "sons" or himself? No. Does he even state that they were killed, or the manner in which they were killed, or the location, or the timing, or anything at all about these supposed deaths? Nope. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero. All we have is the word of a guy who sounds like he was led into saying it by Randi Rhodes ("Did you lose both your sons?" "Uh...yes.")

But let's say you caught me. It is only vastly probable that no two siblings have been killed in Iraq, and I can't establish it as a fact. I can only grant it much more probability that that there were two siblings killed in Iraq. But let's see you say the same? Tell me then, what possible evidence, other than this man's word, do you have that any two siblings have been killed in Iraq?

[stlsaxman]

40. Some excellent points-

We are both given very little to go on. And all, including Randi, are leaping to conclusions. Certainly, I admit to giving benefit of the doubt to the accused, and sometimes to a fault. And because I had no reason NOT to believe what KC in FL said, I took him at his word. Admittedly, it's quite possible that KC made all this up, because he's a lonely, pathetic old man in Florida that just wanted someone to feel sorry for him. My gut tells me otherwise.

As to the story not being covered by the nation-wide MSM so it can't be true.... The Father and Son story reported recently was all over the place because surely someone took it to the media. Just because someone wants to grieve in private and not have their sons/daughters deaths exploited by the press to prove how "patriotic" they are, doesn't mean it never happens.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it- does it make a sound? If no one is there- did the tree actually fall?

Some nice interaction here, thanks!

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. Yes, I admit that I shouldn't call him a liar

Since I do not know for sure that what he says is a lie.

It is only the vast probability of it. And my own (Brooklyn-bred, like Randi) bullshit detector went whizzing to overdrive, primarily because of the way he phrased his answer. Here's what I think: this man may have lost one son in Iraq. I think that's plausible. It was Randi who put it in his head that he'd lost two when she asked him the question. He seemed willing to talk about one, but was cut off and then changed the topic. The BSD was whizzing at this point. Sounds like a half-lie to me.

There simply is no evidence that two siblings have been killed in Iraq. As for the tree in the forest, I very much doubt that local media wouldn't have heard from somebody on this. Think of all the people who would have known two brothers close enough in age to join after 9/11. All those neighbors, all those high school friends, all those girlfriends, and teachers ("Are you Jamie's brother?"), and yet not one called the local paper to say "Hey, both Carter brothers have been killed in Iraq!"). The same dynamic that makes this story a tear-jerker for so many people here would also make it an almost inevitable news story for anyone that knew these guys. OK. Say they were half brothers and lived in different states. Now imagine the people that knew the first surviving brother (certainly we wouldn't assume that they were killed in the same incident!, especially since K.C. said "The first one..." which would indicate different incidents), when he informed them that his half-brother, also serving, was killed ("Jamie's half-brother was killed in Iraq yesterday."). Then, the surviving brother is killed. Not one of these people - no spouse, no parent, no girlfriend, no friend of the parent, nobody, would even contact local media and say "Hey, Jamie's half-brother was also killed 6 months ago." Nobody. This despite the fact that almost every single American killed in Iraq has a local news story attached to them, woith an interview with their friends, siblings, and parents! In fact, I would ask anyone to find a US serviceperson killed in Iraq that does not have an interview with parents printed in a local paper. Even two would suffice!

That's simply implausible. Except for people who desperately want to believe it, and for whom the implausible is always possible, and the possible always probable, and the probable always an inch from certain.

[wryter2000]

44. "Would have, should have."

A person with common sense would assume that such an event would be covered...by local media at the very least.

That triggered my detector.

A person with common sense would hear the truth of that man's words. I can tell the difference between a person like that and Ollie North. I was willing to consider that you had some data that I don't have, but "common sense" doesn't equal data.

Do you listen to that man's local media or read his local newspaper? How do you know what they reported?

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. LOL

You think local media reported upon the death of the second brother that his brother had also been killed in Iraq previously, and that nobody picked up on this, and that it doesn't show up on Google.

If that's your belief, one can hardly credit any statements you make about common sense.

[I Have A Dream]

53. It isn't really helpful to having a civil conversation for you...

to use the wording "the fucking Florida liar K.C.". I mention this with all due respect, but we are trying to have an intelligent discussion, and we're all on the same side. Whether you meant it to be or not, this really seems inflammatory to me.

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Mea Culpa

n/t

[katinmn]

29. Rove, the evil mastermind, is becoming a liability

I'll be surprised if he maintains any influence in the coming weeks.

He's being crucified by those who matter most right now - those who are serving and those that have served in this ludicrous war and those who have lost family to it.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Great mp3!

Now they're hurting people instead of the other way around! Yay! You can tell his voice is about to break up. :( Oooo and they can turn off O'Reilly!

[LynnTheDem]

35. To the best of my knowledge, ICCC has never heard of 2 sibs being killed

in Iraq.

Was any name given?

[katinmn]

37. It wasn't on the audio link. I wonder if Randi's producers

screen calls.

My gut reaction is that the poor guy was telling the truth.

[LynnTheDem]

39. Perhaps. If so, reporters will make it public info.

if it's not true, they will also make that public, and all progressives will be demonized for it and lose credibility.

The people who testified to Congress about Hussein "raping" them and the "woodchipper" witness convinced a lot of people, too. And it was all lies. In a "good cause" of course.

[alcibiades_mystery]

43. Are there any listed casualties without a family interview

in at least a local paper?

I know icasualties has newspaper announcements of deaths attached to individual troop names. Are there any that lack even a local death announcement?

[LynnTheDem]

47. No, none that I'm aware of.

Am waiting to hear from Pat (ICCC Big Cheezie) to see if she's ever heard anything about 2 sibs killed in Iraq.

[alcibiades_mystery]

49. I've browsed through the fatalities list

And while I haven't looked at all 1738, I've also found NONE without at least a local news story. Strange that the family would be interviewed, and neglect to mention that another sibling, blood, half, step, or otherwise was also killed in Iraq. Exceeding strange, in fact....

[LynnTheDem]

52. Right after the first Gulf war when we were in Germany, there was a woman

who told us all about her dear husband, US soldier who had been killed during the Gulf war. She hung out at the local Rod & Gun Club, a US-Military-Germany partnership club to promote US-German relations.

Had us all weeping for her for months. Turned out she hadn't lost her US soldier husband in the war. She'd never been married to any US soldier. She'd never been married at all.

But she'd almost convinced herself of her dead US soldier husband.

She didn't do the pretense for any "bad" reason; she wanted to feel part of the US military family, wanted the sympathy and attention.

It's a sickness, imo.

Not saying that's the case with this "KC", but had 2 brothers been killed in Iraq, I'm postive we'd have heard about it in the news. But that's just my opinion.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. There has never been any public announcement of any such thing

With the single exception of this call.

Which, of course, means the call is true, and the lack of any evidence to support it is itself evidence of a major coordinated cover-up.

Obvious, no?

:eyes:

[flyarm]

50. WELL WELL THE * BOYS WOULD NEVER DO A COVERUP WOULD THEY??

think st louis football player..ring a bell??

or how about jessica lynch...heard of her..or the 4 soldiers deaths that were there in the phoney rescue??

ding , ding, ding!!!..the bells ringing??

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. I know every single death is accounted for

Even the ones you named.

And I also think a cover-up would be impossible, since there are factors that cannot be controlled. Even in the so-called cover-ups you cite, the family (in the case of Tilman) and the principle (in the case of Lynch) managed - shock of shocks - to publicize the story, and that in relatively short order. So explain to me, Quazimoto, how exactly this outraged father managed to call into Randi Rhodes to expose this sinister cover-up, but never managed to inform his local newspaper of his son's deaths? Some cover-up! The gubmint can't even prevent one of the main co-conspirators from ringing up a liberal radio show and exposing the supposed plot nationwide! My my my!

I don't hear any bells, but I do hear some fucking cuckoos...

[Roxy66]

56. You scare me....sorry I hear bells ringing

[theliberalavenger]

55. *bump*

*bump*