Tom Cruise is OK

[zapped 1]

He kicked MSM ass today. They are not used to informed Celebs talking back at their smugness. Though I don't agree that ALL of Psychiatry is bad, there are many problems with the system, like forced drug and forced electro-shock treatment. Notice how Matt interrupted Cruise when he brought that up.
And Tom was correct in that children are being over-drugged, and that Psychiatry is not a science.
What is very interesting is the way the MSM is attacking him, calling him a "nut", has he "lost his mind", et al. God forbid an intellectual celebrity..

[Joj Bush]

1. He is no more crazy than those in power

Today our government and society is way too pro-drug (of the artificial kind), but suggesting vitamins for any psychiatric problem would be too anti-drug. In this case, the "truth is somewhere in the middle" really.

[Modem Butterfly]

2. Psychiatry is not a science? Tom Cruise an Intellectual Celebrity?

:rofl:

[zapped 1]

3. That's right . It is not a science

And anyone who has a commanding knowlege of the history of Psychiatry and it's frequent blunders (lobotomies,ect,et al) is an intellectual, at least by celebrity standards.
Prove that psychiatry is a science.

[Modem Butterfly]

4. ROFLMAOPIMP!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

$cientology isn't a religion.

[Endangered Specie]

14. is it just me or is hard to believe anything...

a $¢i€nto₤ogi$t says? :shrug:

[Modem Butterfly]

17. I wouldn't believe anything one of those rapacious motherfuckers says

Not even "hello".

[Endangered Specie]

18. true that... when they say hello, they really mean

"abandon ye all brains who here enter" </bad Shakespeare>

[misanthrope]

76. That's Milton...

...you're referencing, not Shakespeare.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

91. No, I think he's referencing Dante, _Inferno_, opening of Canto III.

If Milton ever cites the line (I don't recall), then he's clearly citing Dante.

[misanthrope]

107. You're right...

...I've evidently lost more brain cells than I thought in the two decades since Lit class.

[Frederik]

120. Bingo

Abandon all hope ye who here enter. At the entrance to Hell.

[JackRiddler]

78. neither is any other "religion"

Pretty much all of the organized religions are either scams or residues of long-ago traditions. The main difference between the "legitimate" Catholic Church and the "cult" Scientology is a two-thousand year head start. They're all cults to the extent that they have a bunch of supremos laying down doctrine (thus religions or churches that emphasize reason, ethical action and meditation are a cut above those that just lay down the law for the marks). I find it ridiculous when churchgoers who tolerate their own hierarchy's plunder criticize some other cult. Be consistent, I will take you more seriously.

[zapped 1]

86. hahahaha

and damaging young brains in the name of healing (read money) is living up to the Hippocratic oath? You know what that is, right?

[Modem Butterfly]

98. I didn't know $cientologists took the Hippocratic oath

I mean, there was that whole Lisa McPherson thing...

http://www.lisamcpherson.org

http://www.clambake.org

[zapped 1]

136. no. Doctors do.

And psychiatrists.

[prolesunited]

9. Commanding knowledge?

Did you actually watch the interview? He went on a rant. I'm sure anyone in the field could go head to head with him over his "in-depth" knowledge of psychiatry.

I think anyone who is a Scientologist could benefit from mental help.

[earth mom]

35. The same could be said for Christians or any other religion

since most religions have far out beliefs like the Christian belief Jesus has risen from the DEAD. :eyes:

[immoderate]

12. Not a fair challenge.

Medicine does not lend itself easily to strict scientific study. There are certainly aspects of psychiatry that have been explored scientifically. That the answers have not been found does not preclude the application of science.

Given the complexity of the human mind, and the primitive nature of our resources it is not fair to say it's unscientific.

I know that I was "saved" by a course of SSRIs that didn't exist when I was a Psych major in the 60s. I call that scientific. that treatments are misused or abused ignores the advances that have been made. Every blind alley is a learning experience.

--IMM

[AngryAmish]

Medicine is a craft or profession

That said, using the scientific method produces the best results of that craft.

I don't think analysis is scientifically valid (impossible to disprove, impossibility of double-blind studies) and have great reservations about counseling generally.

However, psychiatric medicines can be amazingly efficacious.

[immoderate]

93. That sounds right.

--IMM

[Orangepeel]

16. and medical doctors used to use leeches

:shrug:

drugs don't help everyone, but they do help some people, as evidenced by clinical trials.

Saying that nobody should take them is as irresponsible as saying that everybody should take them.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. They STILL use leeches.

[Gelliebeans]

79. I know I read about that

pretty gross huh?

[Modem Butterfly]

99. Well there you have it, Medicine is not a Science

:evilgrin:

[zapped 1]

55. but you would agree

that the brain should always be protected,yes?

[rpannier]

48. It's a science

It's part of the field of medicine -- Consult the AMA. Medicine IS a science.

[Endangered Specie]

11. I call it a soft science (social science)

others call it a "human science", ive even heard it called just a straight "humanity" or a "social studies".

In any event, questioning Tom Cruise's intellect is no difficult feat.

[DuaneBidoux]

5. On Today he didn't sound very bright to me.

[Chicago Democrat]

13. Bingo!

nice coathanger!

[readermostly]

30. Saw the interview. I always loved Tom Cruise, but he doesn't seem

to allow for opinions other than his own. He was a little over the top, in my opinion. I don't think he kicked MSM's rear in any way. Even Drudge, of all people, made a big deal out of his actions.

[roguevalley]

82. Well, next time he gets sick or hurt, go to a scientologist. Reminds

me of my Christian Scientist uncle. He didn't believe in medicine until he got sick. First one to the hospital. Heal yourself, Cruise. Maybe Xenu will lay on hands or something, you self-satisfied, smug little prat.

[Cha]

6. Cruise told mat lauer

he "was glib"..I like that.

"The interview became more heated when Lauer, who said he knew people who had been helped by the attention-deficit disorder drug Ritalin, asked Cruise about the effects of the drug. (Related site: Read the transcript, see the video)

"Matt, Matt, you don't even — you're glib," Cruise responded. "You don't even know what Ritalin is. If you start talking about chemical imbalance, you have to evaluate and read the research papers on how they came up with these theories, Matt, OK. That's what I've done."

When asked if he could be with someone at this stage in his life who doesn't have an interest in the Church of Scientology — girlfriend Katie Holmes has said she's embracing the religion — Cruise told Lauer: "Scientology is something that you don't understand. It's like you could be a Christian and be a Scientologist."


More at..
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-06-24-cruise-today-show_x.htm?POE=LIFISVA

[smirkymonkey]

24. So Tom has a word of the day calendar?

glib

adj 1: marked by lack of intellectual depth; "glib generalizations"; "a glib response to a complex question" 2: having only superficial plausibility; "glib promises"; "a slick commercial" 3: artfully persuasive in speech; "a glib tongue"; "a smooth-tongued hypocrite"

[progressivebydesign]

47. Maybe he thought Matt was Charlie Glibson.. n/t

[thebigidea]

89. "you could be a christian and be a scientologist"

what a lying sack of shit he is... according to one of the OT documents from his beloved "Source," Elron:

"For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on, let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings
inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal, so deep and insidious is the biologic implanting."

not to mention his immortal cry of "The man on the cross... there was no Christ." - which is online in many locations in audio format.

Cruise is a fucking liar!

Speaking of Cruise, did anyone catch him trying to fire off "intention beams" at the guy who shot him with the water pistol? He did that stupid fixed stare. What a Jedi! These aren't the droids you're looking for...

[ryan_cats]

110. Tone 40

Speaking of Cruise, did anyone catch him trying to fire off "intention beams"

I believe that's called a Tone 40 postulate and you're right, they think it is like the-"these aren't the droids you're looking for". Line.

[toey]

7. "correct in...that Psychiatry is not a science."?????

I agree to the extent that children are over-medicated, but let me tell you there are real people (yes, even democrats) out there who need medication to live life somewhat normally.

There are people who are bi-polar, have post traumatic stress disorder, major depression, not to mention schizophrenia who need medication and/or counseling to survive.

The son of a woman I know who is bi-polar tried to choke her and stuff her into a suitcase to get rid of her. Come on, you can't think this person doesn't need some kind of psychological help.

Its obvious that research has been done for decades about chemical imbalances in the brain. It is a science and those people like Tom Cruise who don't believe so are out of touch with reality.

Personally, I would be dead if it weren't for the strength I had to get the help I needed. I have no qualms about the fact that I have been seeing a psychiatrist and counselor for almost two years. People who have been around me have told me they see the difference therapy has made.

And, Tom Cruise is a nut who's lost his ever-lovin mind.

[tammywammy]

132. I agree with you

I know if it wasn't for anti-depressants I would have committed suicide a few years ago. Depression runs in the family (grandmother, mother, uncles, brother), so once I realized I couldn't control what I was thinking and what was going on I got help. After a 9 month treatment, I'm fine to this day.

I hate it when someone's so dismissive of the psychological help that some people really do need (including what you mentioned of bi-polar, PTSD, etc).

That's fine if Cruise doesn't want to have anything to do with psychiatry, but he shouldn't be so dismissive of it for others.

[sendero]

8. Tom Cruise has every right...

... to be wrong.

The fact that he is willing to go on TV and make an ass of himself in front of anyone with more than a cursory understanding of the brain is ok with me.

If a Scientologist turned out to not be an idiot, now that would be worrisome :)

[Swede]

10. Someone should close these phony schools of "psychiatry" real quick then.

Schools/colleges of Psychiatry
Andon Medical & Healthcare Training
Allied Medical and Technical Careers
Branford Hall Career Institute
Baylor College
Behavioral Physiology Institutes
Brown University
Cukurova University
Dalhousie University
Groningen University - The Netherlands
Harvard University
Indiana University
Institute of Psychiatry
Johns Hopkins University
Kent State University
Medical College of Virginia
Medical College of Wisconsin
Medical University of South Carolina
New York University
Norwegian University of Science and Technology
Southern Illinois University
Stanford University
Tufts University
University of Aarhus, Denmark - Biological Psychiatry
University of Athens, Greece
University of Auckland
University of California - San Diego
University of California at Davis
University of Chicago
University of Cincinnati
University of Copenhagen
University of Florida
University of Illinois at Chicago
University of Michigan
University of Mississippi Medical Center
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Pennsylvania
University of Pittsburgh
University of Utah
University of Wisconsin
Virginia Commonwealth University
Wayne State University
Yale University

[zapped 1]

64. your point?

Many of the institutions you listed support the "brilliant" notion that running household current through the brain is a good thing.

[mondo joe]

116. Only because the evidennce indicates that for SOME it is beneficial.

In some cases the benefits outweigh the costs.

[zapped 1]

119. I'd love to hear from these people..oh wait..

I forgot. They are either too incapcitated; too frightened of rocking the boat out of fear of more; evryone around them already thinks they are "nutjobs" (a term you like to throw around here) already.

[Endangered Specie]

15. I can't really blame Tom for hating psychiatry...

if they had their way, $¢i€nto₤og¥ would be classified as a mental disease :rofl:

[name not needed]

19. He also said that Methadone was originally named after Adolf Hitler.

Was he right about that too?

[Endangered Specie]

20. what?

:wow:

[name not needed]

21. Yep.

http://www.churchofcriticalthinking.com/archives/000204its_tough_keeping_up.html

"The movie star continued, "Look at the experimentation the Nazis did with electric shock and drugging. Look at the drug methadone. That was originally called Adolophine. It was named after ADOLF HITLER.""

[Endangered Specie]

23. Id rather be shocked in the head then spend one minute

with one of them, would cause less damage.

[zapped 1]

32. please, go right ahead..

report back here in 2 months and we'll read your dribble.

[Endangered Specie]

38. are you a scientologist?

:shrug:

[zapped 1]

50. no, I just resent the way the MSM is treating him

For addressing a real issue aside from how Katie Holms is. I am suprised that DU'ers aren't picking up on how the MSM is trashing the messinger and it's being done here to.

[roguevalley]

83. So you don't like the way he is being treated. He is involved in a

discussion that he usually brings up himself. He passes false information around like it was truth because he is an idiot and then when he's called on it, you get mad? I don't get it. When bush does that he's a dick. When cruise does it you get mad? An idiot is an idiot even if he isn't the prez.

[mondo joe]

103. Are scientologists always honest about being scientologists?

Or do they sometimes proselytize by stealth?

[muriel_volestrangler]

92. Memoir of someone for whom ECT worked

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4371351,00.html

Face it, it can work. It's usually the treatment of last resort - it has side effects, the reason(s) it works is unclear, and it has an awful image, due to its misuse many years ago. But doctors will tell you of cases where it has dramatically improved people's lives.

[zapped 1]

121. when patients are asked, the response is quite different

Interesting how that works. Follow the money.

[smirkymonkey]

25. The zombie mind transfer has been 100% successful.

Congratulations Tom! You are now a full-fledged super special member of Scientology.

[dummy-du1]

70. No

For the reasons given above, it is dishonest to state that “methadone” had widely been used during the war as a painkiller and a substitute for morphine under the trade name Dolophin (Dolophine), allegedly derived from Hitler’s first name Adolf. Also, stating that Amidon had been called Adolfin (Adolphine) among soldiers and civilian people is entirely unfounded. In fact, the name Adolphine was created in the US in the early 1970s:

“The invention of the term ‘Adolphine’ by New York City street linguists in the 1970s was an apparent attempt to discredit methadone treatment by those unsympathetic to it, using the Hitler association” (BYRNE 1995, 20; see also KLEBER 2002).


http://www.indro-online.de/historymethadone.htm

[orpupilofnature57]

22. Great actor, sucks as a normal person, been on mt.Olympus too long.

Scientology is great ,if your a millionaire.

[JackRiddler]

80. great actor?

don't scare me!

[mondo joe]

26. Woo woo lefties who love pseudo-science are as bad as right wing fundies.

And the idea that psychiatry is not a science is right up there with the earth is 6000 yrs old.

[Endangered Specie]

37. did you get a chance to read these threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3919632
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3923229

[zapped 1]

54. prove that it is a science

or at least a science that works.

[mondo joe]

96. Funny how many times I've heard that line from creationists.

They don't like science either.

[JackRiddler]

81. woah

listen to you! Something strike a nerve?

[mondo joe]

97. Yes, when dems are as anti science as any right wing creationist it

does strike a nerve.

[gauguin57]

27. Get real. He's a shill for a cult that robs and kills.

Scientology steals people's money and is reponsible for many deaths (do your research!). By advertising this cult of greed, Tom Cruise has BLOOD ON HIS HANDS UP TO HIS ARMPITS!!!!!

He's blabbering about things he knows nothing about. He's complaining about psychotropic drugs ONLY because Scientology wants to charge you thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of dollars to "solve your problems" (in other words, hook you up to a phony machine with a floating needle and saying whether you're "clear") instead of you getting tested therapies.

He's shilling for a cult that has stolen millions from brainwashed people; has caused people to commit suicide; has kept people locked up in hotel rooms (when they've wanted to leave the cult) and allowed them to get dehydrated to the point of death (I'm not kidding ... like I said, do your research on the deaths Scientology is responsible for); has wiretapped and harassed reporters who try to investigate them (and has harassed journalists' friends and family members) and is based on the rambling writings of a pulp sci-fi writer. A writer (hubbard) who said the best way to get rich off others is to start your own religion.

Tom Cruise is a f*cking son of a bitch.

Do your research. start here:
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html

[gauguin57]

29. Here are his LIES.

http://www.imdb.com/news/wenn/2005-06-14

Cruise Tripped Up by Magazine Over Scientology Claims

Tom Cruise's beliefs in Scientology are based on misinformation, according to US showbiz magazine Entertainment Weekly - after editors checked facts from a recent interview with the movie star. Just weeks after accusing Brooke Shields of being "misinformed" after she championed anti-depressants for helping her deal with post-partum depression, Cruise made a couple of sweeping statements to Entertainment Weekly reporter Benjamin Svetkey.

The writer chose to check Cruise's comments and found out he wasn't accurate. Supporting Scientology claims that psychiatry is "a Nazi science", Cruise stated, "Jung (Carl Jung, the father of modern psychiatry) was an editor for the Nazi papers during World War Two," which the magazine's researchers discovered is untrue, according to the New York Center For Jungian Studies.

The movie star continued, "Look at the experimentation the Nazis did with electric shock and drugging. Look at the drug methadone. That was originally called Adolophine. It was named after Adolf Hitler." The magazine also questions Cruise on this point, explaining, "According to the Dictionary Of Drugs And Medications... this is an urban legend."

[Endangered Specie]

31. "Theres a sucker born every minute"

clearly a very optomistic statement.

[zapped 1]

56. and the Pharm Giants don't?

freep on

[Modem Butterfly]

102. Pharmaceuticals are cheap compared to $cientology

And I'd MUCH rather have to deal with a Freeper than a $cieno. Freeps are stupid, but $cienos are crazy. That's why they're so opposed to psychiatry. ;)

[alarimer]

28. He isn't informed

That was most ignorant crap I have yet heard him spew. He is most certainly NOT intellectual. I am afraid that the sheep viewing that will fall for his crap and not get their depression treated. He is full of shit.

[zapped 1]

57. He is a hero

He is warning people about some of the perils that can be awaiting anyone who is in need of help.

[alarimer]

104. BULLSHIT

He is a fucking idiot and so is anyone who believes that crap he spews!!!!!!!!!!

[zapped 1]

122. Hero

More balls than Dean. Rove doesn't count. He doesn't have any.

[RetroLounge]

105. Please look up "hero" in a dictionary some time

:eyes:

RL

[zapped 1]

123. um...someone who risks his/her life to help others is mine n/t

[RetroLounge]

135. So Tom Cruise is risking his life?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

RL

[zapped 1]

137. Hero

Eat shit

[ronnykmarshall]

138. I'll join you in that one!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[earth mom]

33. Tom Cruise Rocks! I loved watching him kick that weasel Matt Lauers a$$!

I didn't see all of it just a few minutes on the show Inside Edition and I was disgusted with Lauer! What an f-ing idiot! I am very against all the medicating that is being done in this country and being pushed by the biggest pushers of all the pharma giants! Tom was spot on! How sad that so many people in this country have been medicated to the point that they don't know it's even happening to them and there are other options!

[Endangered Specie]

34. whats ironic is that co$ has 'medicated' Tom in

a similiar fashion... not too say that he isnt necessarily wrong about overmedication and problems in the drug/psyciatric field, but I sincerly doubt Tom knows one shred of real science.

[earth mom]

36. My brother was bipolar-medicine did NOT help him one iota

the side effects drove him up the wall and he had a sad ending. Most of the drugs they are pushing on all of us do more harm than good. And now they want to drug our kids if they don't conform to what they consider to be "normal"! F*ck that! The day they try it with anyone in my family is the day I'm outta here while I give them the finger. :grr:

[mondo joe]

41. There you go. Your brother proves that all medicine is bad.

Why bother with studies and amassing data when we can just judge the whole thing on one person's experience.

[earth mom]

52. Your reply is pretty cold and heartless.

I wish I would have known about alternative therapies before it was too late with my brother. Maybe alternative medicine could have saved him. I have no doubt there are many many others just like him. You know the ones that live on the streets, homeless and mentally ill. I don't see the pharmaceutical companies or anyone trying to save them or help them. Maybe it's because they already know medication doesn't work for everyone. :sarcasm:

[zapped 1]

59. agreed

He is very defensive on this whole matter. Probably owns stock in Big Pharm.

[mondo joe]

67. Please stick to the facts rather than speculating on the lives of others.

Or would you like me to post how defensive you are as a result of a likely mental illness?

[zapped 1]

72. go for it

I don't mind.

[justsomegirl]

117. Pot/Kettle.

Isn't that what Tom Cruise did, "speculate on the lives of others", when Matt Lauer was saying that he knew people who had been helped by antidepressants and/or psychiatry, and Tom told him that he was wrong?

[earth mom]

69. Thanks for your post! Stock ownership...that makes sense. eom

[mondo joe]

95. Yes, because only a stock holder could possibly be interested in the

sciennce of medicine rather than the anecdotes?

[mondo joe]

65. If you don't see anyone trying to help the homeless and mentally ill

it's because you're not looking. There are many people working hard to do just that.

And your post was yet more cold and heartless because you ignore the MANY people who have benefitted from psychiatry AND medication because one person didn't.

[roguevalley]

84. Three friends of mine go to jail, get drunk, use drugs and get

beat up when they go off their meds for bi-polar. My cousin is being kept alive from Sarcoidosis with meds. I'm sorry for your brother but he is only one case of millions.

[Modem Butterfly]

101. Homeless and mentally ill

Those are the people who aren't being treated. They aren't even given the chance to try mainstream medicine, let alone alternative medicine. Access to healthcare is a big problem for everyone, but that's a comment on the hearts of the pharmaceutical companies, not their skill.

[zapped 1]

60. try this: nearly half of all who try meds go off them

Stick to the facts.

[mondo joe]

66. Which means what?

What conclusion are you trying to draw?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

115. yea, like my co-workers sister.

she got a call yesterday, from the church her sister used to attend. She showed up acting crazy, wouldn't leave, they had to call the cops. Again. She stopped taking her meds two days ago.

Fact - this woman has gone after neighbors with garden sheers

Fact - she was commited for two weeks. They put her in a halfway house after two weeks, because she was "stable".

Fact - Three days later, she shows up to church and scared the crap out of everyone, cause the aliens have arrived. (apparently the rest of us missed that somehow - damn MSN doesn't tell us anything!)

Fact - this has been going on for years and is tearing my friend apart.

[progressivebydesign]

49. And I have friends who have been saved by medication for bipolar.

So.. anectdotal evidence is useless in this debate.

[Modem Butterfly]

100. My partner's mother is bipolar and medicine saved her life

My partner's half-brother is schizophrenic, and medicine has saved his life and allowed him to have some semblance of normalcy. Meanwhile, my aunt had cancer and medicine didn't help her one iota.

There's a great deal of variance among people suffering from the same, or similar, illnesses. People suffering from the same thing will respond differently, or not at all, to the same drugs. Doctors, including Pschiatrists and psychologists, have a great deal of variance in their experiences and opinions, which is why second opinions are always valuable. You can't take one case as an example of everyone with a particular illness.

[gauguin57]

39. Aren't you listening? OTHER OPTIONS? Tom wants them to give their $

to Scientology. Period. He doesn't want people seeking therapy or medication or psychiatry ONLY BECAUSE the cult of Scientology wants to "treat" them themselves. By hooking them up to an "engram" machine (it's the silliest piece of junk you ever saw -- I've seen "audting sessions" on documentaries about Scientology, and it is absolutely ridiculous. And this is what they do for people with mental illness. Christ, no matter so many of them have killed themselves after giving all their money to Scientology and getting nothing but brainwashing in return).

And Cruise has been one or their top shills for YEARS.

Go ahead and cheer for Cruise's "victory over Matt Lauer." When someone you know and love gets lured into Scientology as a substitute for drugs or therapy -- and they've spent their last dime and are a cult-brainwashed mess, don't come crying to me.

How can America still be so naive in the face of TRUE EVIL???????

[zapped 1]

63. true evil?

True evil is robbing people's memories and charging them mega-bucks to do it. And then calling it therapy rather than barbarianism.

[mondo joe]

68. Are you a Scientologist?

Or are you upset about some shock treatment you received?

[zapped 1]

73. Like you,I assume, I don't like lies

Whether from Bushco or the Psych/Pharm industry.

[mondo joe]

94. The Psych/Pharm Industry? So now physicians are synonymous with the

pharmaceutical industry?

[zapped 1]

126. your words

I never brought up physicians here.

[Modem Butterfly]

108. Oh so you ARE opposed to $cientology

:rofl:

[zapped 1]

125. can't say I know or care much aboutit. It really isn't the topic,

:hi:

[ryan_cats]

114. That engram machine

That engram machine is simply a skin galvanometer no matter how many lights and buttonts it has on it. Goto www.zenu.net and see l-ron 'auditing' a tomato.



I have to give him this, he made bucks on the gullability of the human mind.

http://www.xenutv.com/us/ucb.htm

Church of Psychotonomy, have a cookie?

[Spazito]

40. Tom Cruise sucks, imo

He should carry no more, no less weight than my neighbour who might espouse a philosophy that I don't believe in and do not want to be 'persuaded' to accept. He is an overpaid celebrity like Oprah and any other celebrity. Why their opinion or beliefs should carry more weight than Joe Blow on the corner of any street is beyond me.

[cynatnite]

43. I like his movies

I could care less about some meaningless words between him and Matt Laur. Big effing deal.

[gauguin57]

45. He shills for a cult that robs and kills people.

That's no big effing deal? I think it's a BIG effing deal. I care about words between him and Matt when the subtext is: Don't seek therapy, don't take any kind of drugs, come to Scientology and have them "fix you up." It's not just b.s., it's downright EVIL.

And his performances suck. He was good in Magnolia, Rain Man and Interview with a Vampire ... PERIOD. His other stuff is dreck.

[cynatnite]

51. And how many other religions kill people?

They're still killing people.

Good/Bad movies are a matter of opinion.

[high density]

44. Well, I agree with the MSM that he's a mindless nutjob

It's America and he can express his crazy opinion all he wants, but last I checked he isn't a doctor or a psychiatrist.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progressivebydesign]

46. Umm the day I listen to an actor about mental health..

.. is the day I let Dr. Kevorkian mix my drinks. Ain't gonna happen. Tom Cruise is an actor who is involved deeply in a religion that believes pschiatry is evil and that all things can be cured through vitamins and self-talk. Most people who kill themselves are suffering from depression, and medication helps, as does therapy. Next time a friend feels suicidal shall I give them a shot of Geritol?

[zapped 1]

58. no

but you wouldn't give him a lobotomy,either. Would you?

[Spider Jerusalem]

129. Lobotomies aren't done anymore...

surgery for treatment if mental illness is very much a thing of the past. Psychiatry has come a very long way since the 1940's.

In this respect psychiatry isn't much different from medicine in general; things have come a very long way from the days when bloodletting and enemas were the standard treatments for almost everything. It's a bit irrational to slam psychiatry on the basis of outdated practises, in my opinion.

[zapped 1]

130. chemical and electrical lobotomies are

..and mostly on women, I might add.

[Spider Jerusalem]

133. "Chemical" lobotomy?

That's done with antipsychotic medications. Thorazine, Haldol, and the other neuroleptics, which reduce frontal lobe activity, and unpleasant as it is, it's still probably the only real alternative to long-term institutionalisation in severe cases of schizophrenia.

And electroconvulsive therapy is rarely used, and has been shown to be beneficial in cases of major depression which don't respond to medication.

And since more women than men suffer from depression (a neurological condition caused by imbalance of neurotransmitters, I might add, which SSRI's and SNRI's have been shown effective in treating), then I'd say that's probably a better explanation for why more women than men are treated with ECT and neuroleptics than men than ascribing it to misogyny.

[dummy-du1]

61. Let's get rid of psychiatry, and let's bring Scientology to everyone

Four years after my departure, David Miscavige, head of the Church of Scientology, admitted in a 1995 speech to the International Association of Scientologists, that Scientology still had not achieved its goal. He said that:

"There are a lot of opinions out there as to what is wrong with Earth, 1995 - unstable economies, unstable political arenas, criminality, drugs, injustice and so forth - obviously valid concerns.

But if you really want to eliminate those problems, all you have to do is work for the objectives that we, as members of the IAS, have set for the year 2000: Objective One - place Scientology at the absolute forefront of Society. Objective Two - eliminate psychiatry in all its forms.

We don't care what the current think is regarding what's wrong with the planet. Government won't handle it. Politics won't handle it. Legislation won't handle it. All that's going to handle it is what we, of the IAS, have set down in stone.

Let's get rid of psychiatry, and let's bring Scientology to every Man, Woman and Child on this planet."4


http://www.xenu.net/archive/world_without/

(Sorry for being repetitive...)

[cynatnite]

62. Fundies want a christianized world, too n/t

[Curtis]

71. You (and Tom) couldn't be more right

13 years ago I came down with fibromyalgia and CFS. I first tried the herbal/vitiam route but gave that up when it got too expensive. Heck, MediCal pays for medication but not natural therapies. So, eventually this was my list of meds per day:

Effexor 150mg
Neurontin 1200mg
Vioxx then Bextra then Celebrex
Ultram
Vicodin 2-3
Flomax
Allegra
Duratus
Ambien 10mg
Nexium
Lipitor
Valtrex
Zelnorm

I took Duratus due to post nasal drip; I took the Flomax because a rare side effect of Duratuss is enlarged prostate (which I had); Neurontin was supposed to help the Effexor work better AND help with pain; Ultram, Vicodin and the NSAIDS were for pain; Nexium was because the NSAIDS were eating away at my stomach giving me IBS and hiatal hernia; Zelnorm also counteracted the IBS from the NSAIDS; Effexor was supposed to help me deal with the depression caused by the pain; Valtrex was for Human Herpes Virus-6 (a rare form of the virus that attacks the nervous system; and the rest are obvious.

Then, finally, a few months ago I finally woke up one day and asked what the hell I was doing to my body. So, I just started going off this crap cold turkey. I did it in stages to be careful though.

First, I went off the pain meds (including the Neurontin). The pain increased 10 fold when I stopped taking them, but I stuck with it. Eventually, the pain subsided and now I am 100% pain free.

Second, I quit the Flomax, Duratus, Zelnorm and Nexium. Guess what. My symptoms got worse but eventually subsided until now I am totally symptom free on what those were supposedly treating.

Third, I quit the big scary one, Effexor. I decided to do it cold turkey too. I felt fine for two days and then it hit me hard. I was shaking uncontrolably, having unctrolable fits and starts, flashes of light, sudden extreme emotional waves of crying (I cried almost all the way through the Conyers hearing the other day on the DSM), but the problems subsided.

So, now I am at the point where I am taking 2.5mg or 5mg of Ambien (I've had insomnia my entire life), Valtrex (I will never get rid of the HHV-6), Lipitor (I've been vegan for 21 years but still have high cholestorol thanks to my genes) and Allegra as needed (about 2 times a week this time of year in the north-central Sacramento Valley.

And, the great news is, I have NO symptoms I was supposedly taking the meds for. Heck, when I was taking all that pain medication, my pain was out of control. When I was taking the Effexor, I was almost always depressed. In fact, I had extreme symptoms with all the problems the medication was supposed to be helping. Not only do I not have any more symptoms, but I have lost about 35 lbs in the last six weeks, I'm running 2 miles a day and started a weight training program about 10 days ago. AND, to top that off, I am starting the police academy on July 11 at the age of 42.5.

Yes, you and Tom Cruise couldn't be more right about the abuse and ill effects from medication.

[zapped 1]

74. Glad to hear you are doing ok!

And good luck with the Police Academy!!

[Curtis]

75. Thank you

The more I think about how the drug industry had a grip on my life and pretty much ruined the life I had built previously (I was the chair of the Dem party in San Bernardino, had run for the State Assembly and was hand picked by Ayala to learn from him and eventually succeed him when he retired (due to term limits in '98) from the State Senate, I get pretty damn upset.

[DemExpat]

87. This is so sad....and just crazy....

and I see this pattern of taking more and more drugs to counteract side effects mirrored all around me in my family and social circle.:-(

So glad you got out of the downward spiral and found some balance for yourself.

I also had to fight for my life to get out of doctor-prescribed, scientifically tested pharmaceutical hell more than 25 years ago.

:hug:

DemEx

[Curtis]

124. The really hard part in my life now is my wife IS Bi-polar.

She's stopped her meds before without doctor supervision and she did wig out and suicide came very close. So, we've been seeing docs lately to try to whittle down her med list, but all they keep doing is taking one away and adding another.

I've discussed my willingness to see her go into an institution for a few weeks to go off everything cold turkey in a safe environment and then we can add small doses of things she truly needs like Lithium. But, it really scares her so we're kind of stuck where we're at

[shrike]

106. Glad to hear you had a good outcome, but ...

Judging from your list of medications and the original diagnosis, your situation has little to do with psychiatry and psychiatrists, which is what Cruise was complaining about.

[misanthrope]

77. Okay then Tommy...

...You flunked out of high school and it was attributed to your dyslexia. However, if you believe that's all a crock of crap, I guess that just makes you a dumbass then, right?

The littlest samurai can't have it both ways.

[Disturbed]

85. "Psychiatry is a psuedo Science." Tom Cruise

http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/celebrities_con.html

Travolta, Cruise and other celebrities con fans and media

FACTNet alert October 15, 1998

A director of FACTNet recently spent 20 hours interviewing former high-level Scientologist Jesse Prince . Jesse was second in command of all Scientology's operations worldwide. In these conversations, Jesse disclosed information never previously revealed on Scientology's celebrities.

The following synopsis on Scientology's celebrities is a condensation of information from Jesse Prince and other Scientology defectors.
Celebrities'

Endorsements of Scientology a Scam/

More...at the site

[dutchdemocrat]

88. No he's not.

Anyone who promotes this brainwashing cult is an asshole... period.

http://www.nots.org/

Germany has banned them for good reason.

[Skittles]

90. to fault someone who takes anti-depressants post-partum

he may be informed but he is making a fool of himself with his sanctimonious declarations and his public dicussions of his latest love conquest.

[barb162]

111. Cruise reminds me of the people who have everything going their

way (incredible looks, career, millions of bucks, luck, etc) and can't understand people who may have problems due to poverty, abuse, discrimination, etc. That guy has giant blinders on.

And what the fuck personal and actual knowledge does he have of post partum depression anyway. His kids are adopted. I want a guy telling me about menstrual cramps too.

[philosophie_en_rose]

112. He's not informed.

Reading $cientology propaganda on the "history of psychiatry" is not being informed. As others have pointed out, his arguments about Carl Jung and "adolophine" are flat out wrong.

[barb162]

109. I thought it weird that Cruise mentioned lobotomies, etc

The fact is that "medicine" for a long time in the past has used untried and untested methods. Lood at the hysterectomies in this country done only for money, look at the female hormone scandal of last year, etc. However, when we get sick, we still go to the MDs. You still don't completely "destroy" the entire profession. I think shrinks have made huge advances in the last several years and kept a loty of people alive and able to live fairly balanced lives who wouldn't have been able to without the drugs or talk therapy.

[enki23]

113. psychiatry isn't a science, no, but psychology is

while there is plenty of room for criticism of some of our mental health practices, using that situation to rationalize the religion known as "scientology" is beyond the ultimate absurdist horizon.


not that i'm saying scientology isn't a religion. you'll note that i am fully accepting of that. its one of my favorites, in fact, because it doesn't have the inertia of long centuries behind it. its easier for society's eye to fix on its obvious absurdities. i wish we could see the rest of the world's religions so clearly.

[Sgent]

118. Umm...

Electroshock therapy is still by far the single best method for relieving sever depression. 95% success rates among treatment resistant patients, is nothing to scoff at. Keep in mind that its been confirmed with double blind studies. It works.

As for lobotomy's, they probably weren't a bad solution when done. Although they are different now, some types of brain surgery are still common. To cure epilepsy, and to treat certain other conditions, it can be very effective.

[zapped 1]

127. oMG

That is the most dated piece of shit propaganda I have read in years!
Even the Major Media would not go that far.
Very irresponsible of you. Try it on yourself first before you suggest it for others. Sorry.

[Sgent]

131. Care to explain

What the heck are you talking about? ECT is used in every JACHO approved psych hospital in the country, and its use if anything is on the increase. Neuropschological surgery is also being revived. It has been done for years in epiliptics, and is increasing. I just picked these of about 10,000 articles in the last 5 years on pubmed, but it's certainly representative.



Am J Psychiatry. 2005 May;162(5):977-82.

Relief of expressed suicidal intent by ECT: a consortium for research in ECT study.

Kellner CH, Fink M, Knapp R, Petrides G, Husain M, Rummans T, Mueller M, Bernstein H, Rasmussen K, O'connor K, Smith G, Rush AJ, Biggs M, McClintock S, Bailine S, Malur C.

University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey-New Jersey Medical School, 183 South Orange Ave., F1436, Newark, NJ 07103, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: This study assessed the incidence, severity, and course of expressed suicidal intent in depressed patients who were treated with ECT. The data are from the first phase of an ongoing, collaborative multicenter study, the overall aim of which was to compare continuation ECT with pharmacotherapy in the prevention of relapse after a successful course of ECT. METHOD: Suicidal intent, as expressed by patients during an interview, was scored at baseline and before each ECT session with item 3 on the 24-item Hamilton Depression Rating Scale in 444 patients with unipolar depression. RESULTS: One hundred thirty-one patients (29.5%) reported suicidal thoughts and acts (score of 3 or 4) at baseline. Scores decreased to 0 after 1 week (three ECT sessions) in 38.2% of the patients, after 2 weeks (six ECT sessions) in 61.1%, and in 80.9% at the end of the course of treatment. CONCLUSIONS: Expressed suicidal intent in depressed patients was rapidly relieved with ECT. Evidence-based treatment algorithms for major depressive mood disorders should include dichotomization according to suicide risk, as assessed by interview. For patients at risk, ECT should be considered earlier than at its conventional "last resort" position.


-------------

Curr Psychiatry Rep. 2004 Oct;6(5):355-63. Related Articles, Links


Neurosurgical interventions for neuropsychiatric syndromes.

Anderson CA, Arciniegas DB.

Neurology B-182, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, 4200 East Ninth Avenue, Denver, CO 80262, USA. [email protected]

Psychosurgical procedures have been used for the treatment of intractable mental illness for more than 50 years. With improvements in surgical techniques, including new implantable stimulators, advances in functional neuroimaging, and progress in our fundamental understanding of the pathophysiology of mental illness there is a renewed interest in neurosurgical treatment of refractory psychiatric illness. This article will review the history of psychosurgery and recent developments in surgical techniques and implantable devices used in this context. The results of psychosurgery for the treatment of several psychiatric conditions and neuropsychiatric symptoms will be presented, including obsessive-compulsive disorder, Tourette's syndrome, depression, anxiety, aggression, self-injurious behavior, and schizophrenia. Lastly, a perspective on the current and future role of psychosurgery for the treatment of mental illnesses will be discussed.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

128. my sister went to a therapist for help with addict ion to RX Ionimine....

the Dr told her "she was crazy to think she needed help to quit RX diet pills because the Dr said she has been taking the same pills for 8 years"...

They are only supposed to prescribe them for max 3 months but my sister was on them for 3 years and they were making her crazy.

:scared:

[dogday]

134. Haven't we seen this MSM character attack before?

Got to ask yourself why all of this is happening and how much press it is getting. Also this supports the President's Mental Health Initiative. Not to mention all this press on Tom and not on DSM...

[Midlodemocrat]

139. I am locking this thread.

The original poster has been tombstoned.

Thank you.

DU Moderator