Nope....after Dean and Kerry get to the finish line..it will be Kerry!

[KoKo]

I hope it will be Dean.....but I think Wes Clark coming in means it will be Kerry. He's the "Compromise."

Clark coming in at least focused the American Electorate on the Election.....and a recognizable name. Clark is like Schwartzennneger (A Media Q Person) He's been out their in the face of the Enfotainment/Press so he has HUGE name recognition and that's what counts in the polls.

But, (and it remains to be seen how Clark does in the debates and how he decides to tackle Bush)..in the end of it all ......we will be manipulated into Kerry........it's a "done deal" unless there are surprises....and Clark is what his supporters really believe he is......BUT........having been around awhile......I think the manipulations by the "handlers & insiders is so great at this point......and so targeted that we don't really know how much we are all being manipulated here...and in the "hinterland." Even with all our DU bravado and :tinfoilhat:, and Facts and Figures.......we never really ever know "WHO" it is we should trust......so we are always "finge folks."

It will come down to Dean and Kerry.......

I will stick with Dean.........till the bitter end......but this is my predicition.........Kerry will be the "COMPROMISE."

And......maybe it's not so bad.......but we need to be aware of it. And this is from someone who loved parts of all our candidates.....and still thinks Kucinich and the rest.....are people who HEARD US .....and they gave us their best......Sharpton, Moseley-Braun (people who have some bad baggage....at least they got out there)......and Gephardt who just never got it......and thought a vote and union support would give him a BIG chance. And Edwards "who reached for the stars.....too soon," and didn't get that he needed to have a base which he trashed here in NC.

It's EGO's and MEDIA....And, SPIN.....AND GREED AND $$$$'s.

But.....it will be Dean...Kerry.

Don't flame me over Clark.....I'm glad he's in there......he's drawing the Nascar Dads into the RACE! That's GOOD!

[Parche]

1. KERRY/CLARK

Landslide in 2004 for us

[madmax]

2. Be still my beating heart.

The Dream Team :)

[KoKo]

3. Maybe.....too much military for me......but maybe...

we have to see how Clark does......

I'm not tossing Dean out yet, either......just think...."Powers that Be" will finagle Kerry......He and his wife fit in so well with the Washington Society Group.......who could trash them? Theresa and the Heinz Fortune competing with the Bush Fourtune?

My heart is with Dean & Kucinich.......but I'm a realist about this......

[newsguyatl]

4. i think a lot

of kerry folks agree with this and hope this will be the case..


haven't you noticed how much the kerry folks on here are pushing clark now... it's amazing (and awful suspicious)...


both the more respected kerry supporters here (ahem) and the most foul, now very outwardly speaking highly of clark... interesting indeed.


too bad they don't think kerry is strong enough to win on his own, not having to rely on a spoiler (but that's a WHOLE DIFFERENT story)...



think what you will folks... only time will tell...



i only hope folks will do their research on clark... and brush that glitter out of their eyes.

[KoKo]

5. Being realistic about outcome doesn't mean giving up on your candidate!

The harder we FIGHT LIKE HELL for WHATEVER CANDIDATE......means that the "CHOSEN ONE" has to answer to US, US, US! We can give money to losers....and feel good.....and we can protest and wave banners and do what we're doing!

Because, in the end, they will have to listen to us....and if our Candidates are STRONG.....the ANNOINTED DEM.....WILL HAVE TO LISTEN!!! REPUGS LISTENED TO THEIR BASE......We need in the Democratic party to have THE BASE!

So, we gotta keep supporting the candidates who SPEAK FOR US......at this point .......TO HAVE THE BIG VOICE!

That's what my post is about....Reality, Resignation...BUT SPIRIT.......to REMAKE THE DEM PARTY! (sorry...I yell alot, lately) :-(......

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. Clark isn't going to hurt Dean at all

But he's going to devastate Kerry. Just look at the polls on here for an example. Dean still leads Clark on DU and Clark has essentially knocked Kerry down to the second tier here on DU. He's in fourth place after Kucinich. After Kerry places 3rd in NH after both Dean and Clark, he's going to have to drop out.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. Wow! Kerry Is Second Tier...On DU!

I can't believe it! And coming from such an unbiased source, this information must have some relevance on the actual primaries!

[blm]

6. Wow...settling for a longtime liberal...

with the lifetime record closest to Wellstone's...isn't that TOO bad. ;)

[newsguyatl]

7. don't forget

"and who voted for the war."



don't forget it...


because i won't, and i won't let anyone else.

[KoKo]

8. I will NEVER FORGET who voted for THE INVASION/OCCUPATION! Never! But

realistically speaking......Kerry has the "Pedigree...the influencial ties (Theresa/Heinz) and the BIG BUCKS backing to counteract the Think Tanks (IF....he chooses....which he might not) to do so.......and he has the Military Background.

Dean.....is my wonderful Carter vote and support......and I thought for sure Carter could "clean out the RAT'S NEST when he was elected. But, the Media went against him and the Washington Beltway Crowd (much less intrenched than NOW), went against him and he was humiliated and Reagan got the Hostages Released by manipulation with the Bushes and Saudi's so that it cost him the election (but, he also had a hand in his own undoing).....so that I knew that it would take a MIGHTY FORCE the NEXT TIME when we got a Dem in....to try to root out the "Rats in the Pantry."

Bill Clinton was my Dream Candidate........so much Charisma....not like Carter..the GA Peanut Farmer the Beltway and Operative could trash and manipulate.

Clinton was MIGHTY! PERSONALITY.......but even then....he couldn't do it.......they painted him as a "Slick Willy from Arkansas!"

So.......it's gotta be Kerry from MASS with Theresa Heinz Fortune......to get in with the BIG BOYS.........We've gotta face it.....POWER needs MONEY AND CREDENTIALS.........it's BUSINE$$ as Usual.......but HOLD KERRY'S FEET TO THE FIRE!

IMHO........just that.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. Kerry is NOT busine$$ as Usual

and man do I hate that insinuation.
And I have a feeling Kerry will be chosen by the people, not manipulated into a promotion by power brokers.

[KoKo]

25. New Yorker.......there's money there..either it moved to Clark or

whatever....but he's very well connected.....and when it all simmers down over Clark.....he will still be very well connected......don't see this guy dropping out soon....but see issues going his way....but it's just my opinion....

[blm]

21. or who supported the Biden-Lugar version of the resolution...and

was NOT against the war as some believe. You remember Josh Marshall, don't you?


>>>>>>
But on this point Dean's position has evolved too. In that same Face the Nation interview, when asked whether there were conditions under which he might favor war, Dean said ...

"My question is not that we may not have to go into Iraq. We may very well have to go into Iraq. What is the rush? Why can't we take the time to get our allies on board? Why do we have to do everything in a unilateral way?"

...

"My problem is not whether we're going to end up in Iraq or not. Saddam Hussein appears to be doing everything he can to make sure we do go into Iraq. My problem is, it is important to bring in our allies."

Now, my point is not to say that Dean was some sort of war-hawk. Clearly, he was no friend of the president's policy. But then neither was John Kerry, and certainly not Wes Clark. So let's drop this idea that support for war under some circumstances and not others is some sort of waffling or dodge. Because if it is, then Dean isn't in the clear either.

[Starpass]

9. Two things

First if Clark has all these 'handlers' he wouldn't have tripped over his shoe strings coming out of the gate. In fact, he needs handlers. Secondly, I find it odd that you think Clark is getting all this "press". My god, what have we watched for weeks but press (like mag covers and interviews) about Dean since he was considered the frontrunner. They gave no media to the other guys who quite frankly I found were making a hell of a lot more in your face statements about Bush than Dean was (even Lieberman made better ones than Dean in the debates). This is called politics. Dean supporters are an Internet base and he needs more than that if he got to the big dance. Clark is igniting people for just the reasons I keep stating here---people respond to the military thing these days because, in case you missed it, we are all decked out in red/white/blue/and yellow ribbons. For the first time in 50 years they want to really feel safe and they want to have someone take over who they think can figure a way out of Iraq instead of just "we shouldn't be there". Thus, they think a general can figure it out. I told you people would respond this way. Everyone keeps thinking they are all now anti-war. No, they are just sick of the flick because it's gone on too long and the ticket is becoming too expensive to keep watching. Don't ever think the masses will gravitate to someone who is anti-war unless they can state it while wearing "the uniform".

[KoKo]

12. Starpass,appreciated post....BUT...Me, and MY folks not in RED WHITE BLUE!

And that's the Dean/Kucinch..Wing of the Party......NO....we are not Nascar Dads! LOL's

And, I post this because I've been out here in NC at many Peace Protests.......

That's why I posted......I see where Dean/Kucinich.......have their base......and it's ANGRY PEOPLE .....even here in the Fundie South! .........I'm only giving you my perspective.

But.....I'm also a transplant.....and have lived in NYC.......NJ....Conn.......

I'm an EAST COASTER......so have a big perspective that way......and try to say what I've observed from my lifetime........of where I lived and what I was involved in.......

Peace.......

[mlawson]

10. It will be Kerry.

It's probably been planned all along.

Good analysis, KoKo!!!!

[KoKo]

13. Yes,but maybe I'll be like Tucker Carlson...with Hillary's Book Sales.....

unless major change in what I see from pundits (our liberal ones) and (((vibes)) .....doesn't mean, as I said we shouldn't support who the hell we want to with $$'s we can afford and lawn signs, bumper stickers......and fight against the operatives.....we mahybe can turn it....to whom we want....but reality.....sadly......

Yeah...thanks for seeing what I was saying........

[PAMod]

14. I've been thinking of a similar outcome, where...

Kerry wins the nomination with several hundred super delegates (who can vote for whomever they please at the convention) + whatever committed delegates he can pick up here and there in the primaries (though I expect he'll win only MA). I assume the deal you envision would be Clark releasing his bound delegates to Kerry in exchange for 2nd place on the ticket. That would be a mighty powerful ticket.

One caveat, though. If Dean is leading in delegates (even without a majority) and has won the most primaries & still is denied the nomination, that would be a fatal blow to the party. In other words, if it looks like Dean got screwed, we are all screwed. The type of grass-roots support that he has generated would be very disenchanted by a dirty deal. Remember, many (most?) of these folks have been disgusted by our Democratic members of Congress - one more breach of faith...

No chance of victory in '04. Period.

Our nominee, regardless of who it is, will be very strong if, and only if, all of the people participating in this process fall in line behind him.

[DrFunkenstein]

17. Let Dean Speak! Let Dean Speak!

I can just hear it at the convention, like it was '92 all over again.

[PAMod]

22. Wow, Doc; when I read your subject line the image of Teddy Kennedy in '80

jumped into my mind. He ripped the rug out from under President Carter, all the while endorsing him and calling for a united party.

"though much is taken, much abides..."

Even at age 13, I was blown away.

The president won the rules fight fair and square, but the faithful "knew" that if he had released his delegates, "opened" the convention, Kennedy would have been nominated and would have won in November.

[KoKo]

20. PAMod.......what you say is really the "Fly in the Ointment." or the bug

in the "Vicks" or whatever...to make that old expression be "new" again.

Yes......I see what you say....and I think it's a strong possiblility....please post again.....closer...because we will want to hear your voice!

Yes....it's possible. imho.

[Arugula Latte]

15. The voters do have a say, don't they?

I mean, it's not like the DNC can snap their fingers and vote Kerry in. I have to say, I can't see Kerry going all the way to the finish line. For one thing, his way of speaking down to people, giving the impression that he is pompous, is very off-putting. (Whether he is actually pompous or not, I have no idea.)

[DrFunkenstein]

18. Dean Is The One Speaking Down

I seem to recall Dean telling the woman at the debate that she didn't know Jaspora, not unlike when he went on one of the talk shows and insisted that the audience wouldn't understand foreign policy talk.

[blm]

19. Yes, we want someone who speaks as coarsely as we do

on internet message boards. We don't want someone who speaks eloquently, intelligently and thoroughly on almost every issue.

[KoKo]

23. Oregonian, See my post #5......We have a Voice...it's the practicalities..

I'm doing here in my post....the long road down....but YES! We have a voice for change....and the ultimate decision doesn't have to depend on whom the "Powers that Be" decide who it is!

We can make it VERY TOUGH FOR THEM......imho......

[Mass_Liberal]

26. Clark is taking evenly from everyone

Dean is still polling strong in all the leading states. Clark is doing well nationally in the polls due to name recognition. Statewise he is still around 4% in most places.

[KoKo]

27. good point....name recognition...stick to the facts about where polls

important.