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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:29 PM
Original message
FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER
Goes over pretty well with the American Public. How else could someone announce he's running last week and today he's beating Bush (CNN/GALLUP POLL) by 4 points??

Discuss..

NOTE: Kerry also beat Bush. Dean tied Bush. Gephardt, Edwards, Lieberman, and Graham were all within the MOE (Margin of Error) of defeating Bush.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mom, who lives in Florida and voted for *, likes Clark.
I agree with the title; it sounds like Master of the Universe.
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sfecap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think it sounds supremely arrogant.
But for guys who like the warrior shit, I guess it gives 'em a woody...
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Let's see...
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 11:05 PM by WilliamPitt
1. "General"

2. He's handsome

3. He lookms damned good in uniform

4. "General"

5. He's inoffensive to 70% of the populace

6. He speaks well when he speaks

7. He was wounded four times in Vietnam

8. He walks and talks like a guy who has nothing to prove because he was wounded four times in Vietnam

9. So much of the voting public votes on surface impressions

10. "General"
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TennesseeWalker Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. And none of those things should be considered "bad".
I think it speaks very well of him. He's someone who can appeal to ALL the people, not just Democrats. I think he can very well heal this country. I don't know all I need to know about him, but his "image", a strong, intelligent, and caring LEADER is just what America needs, whomever becomes President.

I'm not sure Governor Dean will be able to reach people on the Right as easily as a President Clark could. I like all the Democratic candidates, but most people aren't as tolerant of other views as I am.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I'd say #9 can be called bad
but ya gotta dance with them what brung ya.
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TennesseeWalker Donating Member (925 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I do agree with you on that point.
The American people sure do need to stop being so lazy and get involved in government. However, Clark really seems to have genuine substance. I look forward to hearing more about him. I like the military background. I have a real feeling of pride in knowing that Clark is a Democrat and a military hero and Leader. It takes away a huge issue from the Right.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. It does indeed
There were a lot of heroes in the Civil War. Half of them wore Union uniforms.
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. going down the list,
1, 4, 10. "General"

a general who violated the Geneva Conventions against attacking civilian targets and damaging the environment, and whose war left behind a radioactive battlefield.

2. He's handsome

ooh, let's vote for Mel Gibson, shall we?

3. He lookms damned good in uniform

so did Adolf Hitler.

5. He's inoffensive to 70% of the populace

quick, let's start DraftMrRogers.com!!!

6. He speaks well when he speaks

just don't ask him what party he belongs to, or whom he voted for, or for specifics on any of his positions.

7. He was wounded four times in Vietnam

so he fought well in a war that was morally wrong, started on lies, fought against an "enemy" who posed no threat to the US. just like the Iraq war. no doubt in that war, he killed and wounded many Vietnamese who were defending their homeland.

8. He walks and talks like a guy who has nothing to prove because he was wounded four times in Vietnam

but he does have something to prove - that he's a real democrat and not a blatant opportunist.

9. So much of the voting public votes on surface impressions

great strategy, let's try to out-superficial the repubs.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That was a very well-crafted savaging
Win an American election for me. Carry one...ONE...electoral college vote while eschewing all that you condemned above. I dare you.
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Robin Hood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. lol.
Thank you.

Clarks the man to beat.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I'm not Clark-leaning, but I gotta say a couple few things.
a general who violated the Geneva Conventions against attacking civilian targets and damaging the environment, and whose war left behind a radioactive battlefield.

Okay, I know this has been asked before, but can I see some evidence, especially of deliberate complicity in violating the GC?


ooh, let's vote for Mel Gibson, shall we?

He'd never appeal to Jewish voters. (It's a joke! You know, he has that movie out?)


so did Adolf Hitler.

Please, honey. Hitler fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. And let's save the Hitler comparison for Shrub, it's more suited to him.


quick, let's start DraftMrRogers.com!!!

Sadly, he is no longer eligible.


so he fought well in a war that was morally wrong, started on lies, fought against an "enemy" who posed no threat to the US. just like the Iraq war. no doubt in that war, he killed and wounded many Vietnamese who were defending their homeland.

Hey, now. My father was involved in Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm... should I see him as a bad person for believing the lies our government deceived him with?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Don't bother
An old rule of internet debate (usenet, in specific) held that anyone using 'Hitler' or 'Nazi' in an argument automatically lost.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. I'd say Bush is a young, stupid Hitler. Does that discredit me?
NT!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. No
:)
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Mairead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. It shows you don't know that Bush isn't 'young'
Edited on Tue Sep-23-03 07:54 AM by Mairead
Hitler died at 56. Smirk was 57 this year.
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Tom Kitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. Succint ...
I'd like to the same done for the other candidates...really....no matter who gets nominated I'd like to know how we get out of our current day mess?
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's a cool title
Clark is starting to impress me the more I learn about him.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Have to admit that it sounds better than, former dunk/drug addict, AWOL...
...little fellow who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, carried a C average in College and resembles a chimpanzee. I don't think Junior will be landing on any aircraft carriers in the near future.

Don

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SlutBunwalla Donating Member (200 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. To paraphrase Bartlett from a recent West Wing episode..
Referring to Will Bailey's father, who was Supreme Allied Commander: "He's got the only title that's more impressive than mine."
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kayleybeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. In addition to his impressive title
He has a great resume, great communication skils, and he is just plain great looking. I'm looking forward to the debate. If he does well, I think he'll really take off. I read that he was a champion debater at West Point. He also has a Masters Degree in economics. Hopefully he will come prepared. If he tanks at the debate, I think he'll lose a lot of support and may be unable to recover.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. About As Appealing As Homeland Security To Me
I don't know why, but it has a sort of Orwellian ring to it for me.

That plus the fact that I don't think military experience is necessarily the most valuable experience in fighting a war against stateless terrorism.

Is there any candidates out there that have experience in that field?Anyone, say, on the Sub-Committee on International Operations & Terrorism? Or maybe wrote a book on the subject?

<>
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Supreme Allied Commander
sounded pretty God damned good in 1944.

Name of Eisenhower.

He mentioned something amout the 'Military Industrial Complex' before he quit.
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. it meant something more in 1944
... in 1944, "supreme allied commander" meant someone who commanded millions of men and women in a titanic struggle, with the nation's survival at stake.

in 2003, it apparently means someone who enjoyed an enormous military advantage (the US military budget is many times the entire GDP of Serbia), and used it to squash a third-rate dictator who posed no threat to the US. and in the process Clark's splendid little war left behind a radioactive battlefield that will be causing cancers and birth defects for thousands of years to come.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. "Clark's splendid little war"
Edited on Tue Sep-23-03 01:34 AM by WilliamPitt
Yep, he started it all by himselfs, he did. Even killed them thousands 'o ethnics beforehand, jus' to give 'imself a handy excusin' for the killins he wanted to do. Pity such a man should walk the earth.

Pity.
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. you called him "supreme allied commander", didn't you?
Clark's supporters glorify him for the "successful" outcome of that war; but i say if a man carries the title of "supreme allied commander", then he bears responsibility for the bad as well as the good.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Yep, the whole war, it was
He wents there himselfs. He was them NATOs and them UNs, he was the President then, and besides, as a soldier he could do whats he wanted, right, so he just up 'n went 'n killed 'n fought 'cause that's just his nature.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
24. It is no small coincidence that Bush's ratings reached the lowest...
Edited on Tue Sep-23-03 01:53 AM by VolcanoJen
... point of his presidency at the precise moment that Clark entered the race.

Love Clark or hate him, but you have to admit to the possibility that people are looking at him, and then looking at Smirky McChimpster, and then saying to themselves, "Hmmm. So, we really don't have to have four more years of this crap, do we?"

I also think it's naive to say that nobody knows anything about him yet. I'll give everyone the point that we definitely do not know enough about how Clark stands on the issues yet, but you know, when you plaster your face on CNN every single night during the war, picking and picking away at the Bush Doctrine, people notice. He's no stranger to Americans. It might even be in a "beauty contest" way, but people know who the guy is. And when you achieve the pinacle of an Army career, and get appointed SACEUR, the highest post in the Army (save for a seat on the Joint Chiefs), well, there are plenty of Americans who take notice of stuff like that.

I think it's energizing and exciting that Clark has entered the race, and the fact that Dean fared incredibly well in a head-to-head against Bush (a dead heat given the margin or error) shows that we have the Big Momentum at the moment.

Give Clark credit where it's due... the plastering of the headlines today has given me pause, hope, and jubiliation. Bush is sinking. I heard that right-wing parrot Bill Schneider say it, with my own ears.

This is a win-win for Democrats, whether Clark ends up the nominee or not.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Baby steps
are good steps, especially now. Better than what we've had.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. And with Bush at 50%, this is the best news we've had since...
... CNN gave Florida to Gore.

:D

I'm all for baby steps,
Jennifer
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Beats crawling any day
:grr:
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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
31. All of our Democratic candidates
are very good and I could certainly in good conscience vote for any one of them.
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