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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:16 PM
Original message
Why I will not support Clark
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 10:21 PM by WillyBrandt
Reading DU, I have decided to renounce my support for Wesley Clark. Here is why:

- A man named Michael Jackson said that Clark was crazy. He tried to seize an airstrip that the Russians did not want him to seize, and almost started World War III. I will trust the WW III jibe on its own merits. Also, there is no way the American people will vote for a man who stands up to the Russians.

- I read a virulently anti-Clinton, anti-Democrat website called CounterPunch that Clark is no good for the Democratic party. Therefore, I will trust them, since their hatred of my party shows they have my party's best interests in mind.

- Clark has no political positions, except for those he has articulated. And while those he has articulated are liberal, that is only evidence that he secretly holds right-wing beliefs.

- I have a link to a right-wing publication trashing Clark, he is no good for the Democrats. Clinton, Carter, Kennedy and Roosevelt were never trashed irrationally by both the right and left!

- Does anybody know whether the the quote "Clark would personally crowbar hobos for fun" is actually true? Stop saying I'm smearing him! These are my theories! Do you have any proof that he DIDN'T crowbar hobos? EVER?

- I am PROUD of my vote for Nader. Hey! Don't call me retarded! Stop it! Stop it!

- While Clark sounds like a centrist and thinks like a liberal, Dean sounds like a liberal and thinks like a centrist. It is clear that the latter is better for the Democratic Party, since he is less likely to get elected, and less likely to push forth liberal positions if he is.

- Clark was pushed into the Democratic Party by sneaky Republican operatives, who wish to secure a Bush victory by electing a Democratic president.

- The hatred the GOP has for Clinton is evidence that he is a Republican. Therefore his friend Wesley Clark is a Republican.

- Clark voted Republican about 20+ years ago, therefore he is not a Democrat. The fact that right-wing Reagan was once a devoted Democratic is not a counterexample by proposition X, which I leave unspecified.

- Alright, so some Nader fans are retarded, but I'm not! Alright!?

- Because I'm a REAL Democrat, I will not support the Democratic nominee unless s/he is X.

- Clark has the potential to expand the party by bringing in culturally disaffected and politically disenchanted Reagan Democrats, while taking positions more liberal than the other candidates. Unfortunately, those Reagan Democrats are dirty, and shaking their hands is too high a price to pay for power.

- Except for his experience in high-level diplomacy, ever-rising poll ratings, and evident ease in front of the camera, he is too much a political novice to win.

- Since the Constitution grants the franchise only to those who (1) are members of DU; and (2) are extremely irrational, there is no way Clark can win the presidency.

(Edited to change repetition of words in next to last one.)
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Your reasoning is impeccable.
;)
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have to say this is the most ignorant, confused, contradictory....
post I have ever read on DU. Yeah, dude, let the REPUBLICANS decide for you who you should vote for. Good idea! /sarcasm

And as far as "Clark crowbarring hobos"--the burden of proof that it did happen is on you, since it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to prove a negative.

And there are numerous other justifications to rip your post, but I don't have the time or energy. Reread your post, though, and see how much sense it really makes.

I will leave it to other DUers to tend to refuting the rest.

(An aside: Are Republicans so fearful of Clark that they are registering here to smear him????)
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Pssst, jchild!
I think he's doing satire.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I became SO FURIOUS reading the post that...
I failed to see it as such. (Did he indicate such with a disclaimer?)

Thanks for the heads up, BurtWorm old buddy! I will reread.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I have to admit
he almost got me with the title alone! And I'm not even a Clark guy! But I love what Clark's doing to the Bushists.

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rads Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Awww
(Did he indicate such with a disclaimer?)

Well that just wouldn't be any fun.
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oustemnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. No disclaimer is necessary when it's laid on that thick and that
hilariously. I can see where people might get confused and develop a kneejerk reaction though, with the way this board has been lately.

Kudos to the original poster; quite well done!
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. You realize. . .
. . . that the above was satire? One of us is being too subtle . . .
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. You are new to DU--
I have never read any of your other posts.
I know nothing of you.

A suggestion--since we always have influxes of freepers when Dems lead polls or have other victories, why not just indicate that the above is satire at the end of the post so that others don't rip you too.

Additionally, in GDF, lately it has been a free-for-all among various groups supporting different candidates, and what you posted would not be that satirical considering the trash I have seen posted on other candidates.

Just a suggestion--the disclaimer--and an apology for insulting you.

And a question--what do you think about Clark?

jchild :toast: Willy
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. No prob
because satire does sound very close to reality here, which is what inspired the post.

I'm a Clark guy all the way. Already donated. Will start volunteering this weekend.

If he's nominated, and I think he will be--he will crush Bush. He's the only candidate who can not just beat him, but knock him out of the history books.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Oh how I agree...
but as a historian, I can tell you that bush will be held accountable in history books for his lies, nepotism, and mismanagement.

Again, I apologize for ripping into you...Gut reaction after reading the first few lines of your post...after rereading this thread, I am not only laughing at YOUR post, but MY response too. Glad we could bring a moment of levity to GDF (which could use it, IMO!).
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zekeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
56. Good job, WB
excellent satire - even if someone wouldn't agree with your points, they have to love the way you captured the multiple persoanlities of DU.

:yourock:
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. The only thing funnier than the original post...
is your response.

No worries... in an hour this thread will be well on it's way to the archives.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. I don't mind if it floats on page 1 for awhile :-)
...I have no shame. LOL!
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. That's what we love about you, girlfriend!
:loveya:
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rack him
Honestly, best post I've seen on DU in a LONG time. I'm an ABB guy. I like Clark. I like Dean. I like Edwards. I like Kerry.

But that post was fantastic. BRAVO!

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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. ABB
"I like Clark. I like Dean. I like Edwards. I like Kerry."

I like all of them too. Clark's my guy, but I'd be happy with any as President. Part of me wants Dean just because of how crazy he'd drive the rigth.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. if you REALLY want to see their heads spin, nominate Hillary. nt
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh gawd
Have you ever seen chicken noodle soup leave the nasal cavity and hit the monitor? You should have been at my house when I read this.

Brilliant work, man, brilliant!
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. I got it the first time, and it was terrific!
I admit that when I first clicked on the thread, I thought, "Oh boy, here we go, another Deaniac bashing Clark, why am I even bothering to read it." But you seem to have captured their "logic" impeccably.

GO WES GO!!

Bake
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Yes...considering the content and confrontations in GDF lately...
I thought exactly what you did. What Willy posted is not that far off key from what I have seen posted by other candidates' supporters here before.
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jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
14. I love this post!
nt
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great post!
I think you might have left out the Hillary conspiracy. That one's being floated at MSNBC, but it's still insane.
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. Great Post! You had me going for about 10 seconds. n/t
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. I don't know what's funnier...
The post or the fact that people thought it was serious.
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. The reason people thought it was serious...
... is because they've seen each one of these 100 times put forth with apparent sincerity. Once you've got a catalogue of this stuff, its inanity becomes clearer.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. Counterpunch is "virulently" anti-Democrat?
is that the same virus that makes them hate Republicans even more?
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Yes
Counterpunch is the bastard child of mindless contrarianism and muddled Marxism.

The fact that they are enemies of Republicans doesn't mean that they are friends of Democrats. On the contrary, Counterpunch helps the GOP by aiding in the disunity of the Left.

For the GOP, Counterpunch consists of useful idiots. For the Democratic Party, it's marginal, but nontheless malignant.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. Hmmm
or, Counterpunch is a journalistic source that does actual, non-ass licking investigations and let the chips fall where they may. IOW, a TRUE media.

If Democrats don't know how to stand up and defend themselves, I dont see why you think Clark or any other Dems (Clark's a Democrat, right) could win any election.
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. No
They do as much journalism as Southern Partisam or Maoist International Monthly. Anger isn't independence. Contrariness isn't objectivity.

Don't kid yourself. It's a crackpot mag. Some nuts leave The Watchtower in my building's laundry room; between that and Counterpunch, it's just too much.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. heh
so you say
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roughsatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. What are you doing on this thread which is clearly preaching to the choir?
It is amusing to find you here. The responses are almost like "amens." It is so contrived and smug that it is funny in a way they did not intend. :)
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Contrived and Smug
Would that a person like you could see that it was otherwise!
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iambe Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Contrived And Smug - Like This?
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. You had me nearly half the post...
Asshole! :toast:

I had SO many furious replies in mind!
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. he killed a man in reno just to watch him die
sure of it.
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Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. lol great post
hehehe :D
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. Best. Thread. Ever.
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phrenzy Donating Member (941 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
30. Ahem
Erm - You'd of thought the quote "Clark would personally crowbar hobos for fun" might be a clue in to the fact that this was satire.

Sometimes it's frightening how different people's sense of humor is from mine - I got it from line one. I think these must be the people who only laugh at knock-knock jokes and slapstick comedy.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I looooove slapstick ...
give me an evening with the stooges and it is as close to heaven as we get. :D

And yep, I got if from the first line.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Oh, c'mon! You couldn't tell she was being ironic too?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. (Thanks, BurtWorm :-) )
Thanks for coming to my defense. After all, I am just a silly low-brow southern girl who wouldn't know dry humor if it came up behind me and bit me in the ass. LOL!
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. Ah, a chap who calls 'em like he sees 'em
and sees pretty darned clearly!

Welcome to DU, WillyBrandt! Many of us will be looking forward to your keen observations and dry, eloquent wit spicing things up around here. Keep us all honest!

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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. I caught on since Counterpunch - pretty good, huh?
You nailed the GD to a T! My favorite:

- Clark has no political positions, except for those he has articulated. And while those he has articulated are liberal, that is only evidence that he secretly holds right-wing beliefs.

This is a classic! I shall save it and quote you (with credits)
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
35. Apostate! I cast you out! No oil profit sharing for you!
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CarlBallard Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
43. Wonderful
Although I wasn't partial to "- While Clark sounds like a centrist and thinks like a liberal, Dean sounds like a liberal and thinks like a centrist. It is clear that the latter is better for the Democratic Party, since he is less likely to get elected, and less likely to push forth liberal positions if he is." the rest more than made up for it. Lets not bash Dean. I understand it was an attack on irrational Dean supporters (the minority of you guys), but still.

Also who hasn't crowbared hobos?
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
45. boy some of you Clark supporters sure are impressive.
:puke:
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
46. Are you off your medication? n/t
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I am off my meds
The laudanum is running low, and I'm getting the vapors. Gonna relite the Clark candles I've got going.
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Better watch it ....
Edited on Tue Sep-23-03 01:00 AM by janekat
Stay away from that stuff. I know alot of people who have ended up with permanent affective disorders (depression, etc.) from that crap....
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
48. Kicking myself
before bed, just so the anti-Clarkians can have a cheat sheet.
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
51. You Are My Hero
Oh. My. God.

TOO FUNNY!

DTH
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Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
52. LOL!
Brilliant satire!

Thanks for the laugh!
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
53. This Deserves a Kick (eom)
DTH
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. a kick and a half.
heheh
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
55. Willy is my hero too!
Edited on Tue Sep-23-03 12:17 PM by DemEx_pat
If this doesn't cover what's been said here about Clark, I don't know what would....

:kick: :kick: :kick:


:D :D :D

DemEx
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
57. I will keep kicking myself
until the maroons realize that saying something false twice doesn't make it true. Clark manages to make jelly out of the minds of two strangely allied groups: (1) Fox News commentators; and (2) the less rational DU posters.

From whence came this alliance of the knuckleheads?
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