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John Kerry - I may be waaaay behind

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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:18 PM
Original message
John Kerry - I may be waaaay behind
I just watched the video "Courage" on http://www.johnkerry.com under "About John." It's a great video. I like the part where he's addressing the Senate Armed Services Committe. Good stuff. I think Kerry, although not my first choice, would make a great president. I almost got a little choked up when his former crewman was talking.
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, not my first choice, but he's my second...
Go Kerry!
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's the trueth about this process
Kerry is a great man. Kerry has served his country well. But he might not win the prize. It shouldn't be about him being some kind of terrible person. He is not. He is a great man, and should be respected. I'll take 1/4 of Kerry over Bush any day. This is about the best interests of defeating Bush. As of now, I don't see Kerry as being that guy.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Look again...polls show he is already beating Bush.
.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kerry is a seasoned warrior and master politician
I think he will surprise everyone, and very likely come out on top when all is said and done.
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. He is a great guy, but
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 10:38 PM by Redneck Socialist
he is running a crappy campaign. He has no coherent theme, his staff is in disarrey and I think he will finish no better than third in NH.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. So they say. Sounds like Gore, eh?
.
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OrdinaryTa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kerry Ought to Withdraw for the Good of the Party
It was more than the fact of voting for the war, it was the timing of Kerry's failure to show any leadership. We looked to Democrats to oppose the war, but opportunistic John Kerry chose that precise moment to wiggle and waffle and waver. He cast his vote for the war, but later complained that he'd been led astray.

This is not leadership. This election, John Kerry doesn't have the issues on his side, and he's never had the personality to overcome serious mistakes like his war vote. He should withdraw his candidacy for the good of the party.

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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. You're wrong
"We looked to Democrats to oppose the war..."

WE don't have a monopoly on the Democratic Party. Right or wrong, many Democrats were thankful for that vote. I wasn't one of them, and I considered it unfortunate, but not a deal breaker for me. Senator Kerry is a fine public servant, and deserves better than being ridiculed as "looking too French to be president" by the likes of a chickenshit chickenhawk like Rush Limbaugh.
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OrdinaryTa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Uninformed Democrats
Uninformed Democrats supported the war because they believed that Saddam was behind September 11th or had WMD's and the means to use them against us. This does not let John Kerry off the hook; in fact it makes his behavior even more reprehensible. He knew the Administration's case for war was bogus, and he squandered the best opportunity to raise public awareness of that.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. you started a thread with this crap a week ago
it was just as stupid then.
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OrdinaryTa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Or Alternatively
Just as valid then as it is now. Kerry doesn't show leadership when it counts. The point here is that the President is out in front, making the decisions at the time they are current. Kerry hangs back until it's safe to say what he really meant. We can't have a guy like that as President! He's too indecisive.

And when he does make a decision, such as his vote on the war, he doesn't show any courage. Kerry did what he thought was good for Kerry, not for the people of either country, America or Iraq. He's just a face in the crowd, a follower not a leader. He should withdraw his candidacy for the good of the party.


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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Just Because You Talk Last
Doesn't make you right. Kerry said that Iraq did not pose an imminent threat, but that Saddam had a history as a loose cannon, and after 9/11 we were not going to tolerate any more loose cannons than we needed to.

This is Kerry back in 1997. Tell me if he altered his position out of political expediency.

Saddam Hussein cannot be permitted to go unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation.

While we should always seek to take significant international actions on a multilateral rather than a unilateral basis whenever that is possible, if in the final analysis we face what we truly believe to be a grave threat to the well-being of our Nation or the entire world and it cannot be removed peacefully, we must have the courage to do what we believe is right and wise.

-----

Saddam spent the 90's playing games with the UNSCOM inspectors. Here's what Clinton had to say about it.

"Saddam's deception has defeated their effectiveness. Instead of the inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors."

"The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression and prevent another Gulf War."

Kerry said that the real threat of force was the only way to make Saddam compliant with the peace terms he himself had signed after the first Gulf War. Although I was an active member of the anti-war movement, I believe that both Clinton and Kerry were right in their decisions.

Like Kerry, I believe that this war was tragically unnecessary, but that ultimately Saddam brought it upon himself by giving Bush the opening to declare his bullsh*t war. I don't blame Kerry for Bush systematically ignoring the advice of Colin Powell (who ultimately compromised himself into oblivion). I mean, how do you just IGNORE your Secretary of State?
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OrdinaryTa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Blame Saddam
Saddam brought it upon himself

Your position is more consistent than some of the other things I've heard here. You are saying that Kerry supported the war because the war was worthy of support. I don't agree with that viewpoint, but at least it's not nonsense.

I don't wish to debate the merits of the war at this time. It's a breakthrough that Kerry supporters are finally acknowledging that he can't have it both ways. If he opposed the war, he should have voted against it. He didn't.


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Rooktoven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-24-03 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #23
40. Good summation and analysis
Edited on Wed Sep-24-03 12:16 AM by Rooktoven
as usual, Dr. I think many Dems who voted to give Bush authorization did so agonizingly because they realized what kind of guy Saddam is. The thing that I think they should be held accountable on is trusting Bush to do the right thing, I mean I think they _wanted_ to believe the president would act in America's best interests in a prudent manner. Sadly, we all know _now_ that Bush is neither ethical or competent enough to govern in a manner that serves beyond his greed for increased wealth and fame.

Here is what Edwards, Kerry, Lieberman, and Gephardt should say to redeem the trust of a great portion of the party:

"My friends, I voted to give the president authorization to send troops into battle in Iraq. It was a mistake on my part. I do not feel I erred in wanting to give America leeway into challenging the brutality of Saddam Hussein, but rather my error was in trusting the judgement and the competency of the man occupying the whitehouse. I mistakenly believed that one who is commander in chief will rise to the occasion to act in America's and the world's interests. Unfortunately, my vote enabled this acting president to act without coalitions, rather than to build them, to alienate our friends, rather than to work with them, to jeopardise our troops needlessly due to improper planning and hubris, and to use the deaths of American and Iraqi citizens as instruments for cheap political gains.

"My friends, I am sorry I helped to allow this to happen, and I will do everything in my power to ensure that this person inhabiting the White House will be removed."


(oh, and thanks Ted Kennedy...)



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Kerry is a combat commander. He, better than most...
... knows what war is about. He would only order America's armed forces to combat if it was the last resort. That's what Sen. Kerry said and he's who I believe.

BTW, Ordinary Ta: Thanks for reminding me. You wouldn't be supporting a draft-dodging mogul jumper, would you?
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OrdinaryTa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Combat Commander
Kerry commanded a boat with a 5-man crew. He stayed in Vietnam only 4 months, and then arranged transfers for his crew to keep them from squawking after he left. Kerry was only a lieutenant. How does a low-ranking guy like that get a whole crew reassigned?

There's other evidence that Kerry had unusual clout. The Navy does not reward officers who exploit technicalities to get out of combat. But Kerry wasn't just rewarded, he ended up with a fantastic dream job as an admiral's aide in New York City.

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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. He was 4 months into his second tour
It wasn't a technicality either. You can leave if you get 3 Purple Hearts. That's that. What would you have done? Stayed?
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OrdinaryTa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Rule Book Kerry
Kerry's first tour - if you can call six months a "tour" - was on a ship out in the middle of the Gulf of Tonkin. As far as warfare is concerned he might just as well have been out in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico.

Getting out of actual combat after three trivial injuries is certainly exploiting a technicality. It's hard to believe that anybody would argue that it's not.

There were lots of technicalities that guys could exploit, and many guys did. I didn't have a problem with it then, and I don't have a problem with it now. Kerry pulled strings to get himself a cushy job as an admiral's aide, and I find that perfectly understandable, too.

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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Ok, Ta
Tell me where you were, and perhaps you'll "win" this one. Where were you during Vietnam?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. It's funny
This fellow named 'Ignored' only seems to pop up in the Kerry threads. Nowhere else on DU, not in all the threads on all the other subject, does 'Ignored' ever show up. Only in the Kerry threads. I'm guessing this 'Ignored' fellow spends time on DU for one reason, but what do I know.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Is that me?
It couldn't possibly be. I haven't said a single bad thing about Kerry (or any other candidate) since the dawn of time. :)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Nyet
:)
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Whew!!!
I hate that feeling you get when you think you might have pissed someone off but aren't sure how. On the other hand, I LOVE the feeling I get when I succeed in pissing someone off when I was trying to. That's mucho fun. I try to do that to my puke co-workers as often as time will allow.

I wonder how hard I'd have to try in order to piss off OrdinaryTa. However, since Ta never responded to my last question, I guess I'll have to wait for another day.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. He's a uniter, not a responder
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. You missed nothing. "Ignored" is still playing that one note tune
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. "would make a great president."...Why do you say that?
Yeah, Kerry is a great guy and served his country well, but Kerry is a political survivor more so than a political maverick. I just don't see it, the Iraq War Vote will be enough to convince people to vote for Bush rather than Kerry.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I can't believe that
The man has had decades of faithful service to the party and to the country, and you reduce him to one vote?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. He's ANOTHER Great Candidate
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 11:22 PM by cryingshame
:) So many to choose from.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kerry is my No. 2 choice
I just wish the guy had a little more charisma. His bona fides are pretty damn good. He was my guy in the beginning of this race, and I still like him. I think he could take Bush down. And as someone said, he is a survivor, to which I might add, "to the survivor go the spoils." This is going to be a bloody campaign, possibly nastier and bloodier than any we've seen, because the stakes are just so f-ing high. Our Dem candidate will, by definition, be a survivor and a fighter.

I think Clark is such a fighter. I also think Kerry is. I don't see Dean as a survivor or a fighter, and I think he has peaked waaaay too soon. If Clark stumbles, and that's a big IF, because I think he's strong, Kerry will still be in it at the end. I still wish he had a little more Juice.

Bake
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
14. interesting
I've had difficulties with Kerry, but many people here have made very compelling points for him. I don't know if I'll vote for him, but I am done looking for his flaws. I hope he continues to articulate the points that I've heard his supporters state, and if he wins the nomination, I'll sure as hell vote for him and try to help.

Here's to a good showing for Kerry this week at the debates!
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
16. Kerry can win because...
He was in a foxhole in Vietnam, Bush was a draft dodger who didn't even show up for national guard duty.
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indigo11153 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. He could get right back in if
He comes out strong and leads the charge to vote no on this rebuilding Iraq idea!
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
19. This is a great letter to john by a friend
by BRIAN WILLSON

Dear John,

It has been a long time since we have had contact. As you might remember our very first meeting was at VVAW's Dewey Canyon III, "A Limited Incursion Into the Country of Congress," April 19-23, 1971, in Washington, D.C. I'm sure you remember asking the Senate that week in an impassioned speech, "How do you ask a man to die for a mistake?" You also stressed the importance of being "totally nonviolent."

Our second and many subsequent meetings occurred in Massachusetts after you were elected Lt. Governor, 1982-84, while I was active in veteran's issues in Western MA. As director of a veterans outreach center in Greenfield, and the Western Massachusetts Agent Orange Information Project, I served on the Massachusetts Agent Orange Task Force under Governor Dukakis' veterans commissioner and your office as Lt. Governor. I subsequently also served on Dukakis' homeless veterans task force.

http://www.counterpunch.org/willson1015.html
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. Some friend...
Edited on Tue Sep-23-03 11:37 PM by seventhson
you'd think he'd be grateful for Kerry's support of the contras

Jeesh, those damn pacifist nam vets...

SO ungrateful to Kerry...

tsk
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
22. An excellent video he made there. (nt)
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
27. i love senator kerry
he is my first choice for many reasons, such as civil rights, environment, etc. glad you watched his video and liked it. and thanks for the good words on john kerry even if you don't support him as first choice.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. Courage
watch the band
through a bunch of dancers
quickly, follow the unknown
with something
more familiar
quickly,
something familiar

courage,
my word,
it didn't come
it doesn't matter

sleepwalk,
so fast asleep
in a motel
that has the lay of home
and piss on
all of your background
and piss on
all your surroundings

courage,
my word,
it didn't come,
it doesn't matter

courage,
it couldn't come
at a worse
time

and there's no simple
explanation
for anything important
any of us do
and yeah the human
tragedy
consists of
the necessity
of living with
the consequence
under pressure
under pressure

courage,
my word,
it didn't come,
it doesn't matter

courage,
your word,
it didn't come,
it doesn't matter

courage,
it couldn't come
at a
worse
time
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RichV Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. Certainly top 3 for me
Kerry's a good man. Just seems like he needs some more fire in his belly.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
36. I feel like there are three leaks in the dike of democracy
Kerry, Lieberman and now Clark.

Trying to keep my fingers in to plug these holes is exhausting.

I like the rest of the field.
Much
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Starpass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. If Kerry got the nomination, he could, indeed, bring down Bush
Kerry's big problem is getting through the primaries unfortunately. Right now though his numbers are right around Dean, Lieberman, etc. with only Clark pulling out ahead in the Gallup Poll. It's all still very much a horserace. If he's the candidate I have every confidence that he can win against Bush. I can't say that for 8 others of our 10 candidates.
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