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There is a fundamental shift going on and it is huge.

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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:17 PM
Original message
There is a fundamental shift going on and it is huge.
The day the invasion began my mother-in-law said it was time that we stop Saddam. The sanctions hadnt worked and it was time to attack. We hadnt had a conversation about it since.

What a difference an extra $87b makes to a Republican. She says she feels like she was tricked. The country is falling apart, she said tonight, and we are going to rebuild Iraq? She said Bush doesnt have a prayer in 04. I told her that I think they are now saying that Iraq didnt have anything to do with 9/11 because they want to blame it on someone else and invade there. Her reaction was, once burned, twice shy.

To understand the importance of this think of Barbara Bush admitting her son is a failure.

Bush is toast.
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Kamika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. I sure hope youre right
I cant be as optimistic as you are.. it seems he has this 50% base that never disappears.

and thats still alot of ppl
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FauxNewsBlues Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Just think though
He now is at his lowest point in his presidency. 50% want to get rid of him, and all the bad stuff hasn't been out, or known by the public.


Once the serious political season begins next year, people will be paying attention when he gets hammered for his failings. The Chimp is in serious trouble.

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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. It took Nixxon a long time to get his ratings down in the 20's
right when he resigned. There was a hardcore base that wouldn't let go until confronted with the awful truth that they really didn't want to know.

That awful truth is starting to come out about Bush. I heard today that even daddy was at 55% at this point before the election compared to Jr.'s 50%.

The numbers are moving well right now. They'll plateau, as you suggest, with his base. Then, they'll drop more, maybe even faster.
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. He Hosed Himself
Massive spending, government expansion, limiting civil rights, snubbing the UN and 2 wars no one really wanted, trading GI's lives for points in the polls....
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The man blew it< had almost universal support >
But his arrogance soon surfaced as the Pub agenda. Combined, he was a perfect patsy to take the hit...be the fall guy. Bush is just now finding this out. Look it his face, doom and gloom.

He is the Minion, used and abused by his Pub/Puppet Masters.

Bwahahahahahaha
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Damn, you've got that right!
I supported the Afghnistan invasion AND supported Bush for doing it! But when he started that friggin macho cowboy shit, with our allies, that did it for me. The stupid ass had the world by the balls and didn't realize it...now I ask you, how can anyone vote for anyone so stupid?
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Wait Until His UN Speech Tomorrow
He needs the UN to bail him out but will not negoiate in any way, shape or form to get the help needed. He's going to walk in and demand relief.

Sorry Dimbo, the UN is not an Alka-Seltzer.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. the only defense he has against critics
"they're uncivil."

The whores are obliging him, by repeatedly asking "why do the dems HATE him so much?"

But can they keep this up for a whole year? That's a thin defense to begin with, at some point people are going to remember the republicans and Clinton.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. W Is a Defective Product
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 08:34 PM by Beetwasher
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Remember when you were a kid and some new toy would come along and the commercials for it were plastered all over the Saturday morning cartoons and before you knew it everyone you knew had one and of course, you had to get one too? It looked so great in the commercial, shiny and fun and promising endless enjoyment. I'm sure it happened numerous times during your childhood. Only, you get the toy and it's not nearly as fun as it looked and it breaks after using it a couple of times. The dissapointment and resentment would well up every time you saw the commercial after that. You knew the truth now and no amount of marketing would ever get you to buy another one of those toys. Maybe they'd sucker you in again for a NEW product, but that toy? History.

Bush is that toy. He was sold to the American people through a marketing and propoganda campaign of epic proportions. 9/11 didn't change Bush, it changed the way the country saw him. The country desperately needed a leader and they projected everything they thought a leader should be into Bush. Unfortunately for Bush and his bosses, they picked a defective product to foist on the American people.

The lustre has worn off and no amount of PR or marketing or propoganda can bring the people back to once again accept what they now know is a defective product. Bush's neocon bosses might have actually been able to pull off their complete seizure of the country if they had picked a different puppet. Someone who had at least a modicum of competence. Bush is not that puppet. He has neither the competence, the charisma or the intelligence. He's defective through and through right down to the very core of his essence and no amount of propoganda or PR will make people believe otherwise now.

The 87B speech, this speech at the UN and this Fox appearance are yet more hail mary's for Bush's neocon bosses and they will fail miserably. Everyone's heard it before, it's nothing new, it's the same old commercial for the same defective toy and people no longer want it and they ain't buying it again.

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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Great analogy.
I think you're right, tomorrows speech ought to be interesting to any paying attention. Bet it won't get good play on the networks, I think they are tiring of covering for their "defective toy" cause its making them look ridiculous.
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SilasSoule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Great stuff Beetwasher

Thanks
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. his loyal base
While I think there are many, many Republicans who are disenchanted with bush, I think Kamika has a point when she talks about the base that doesn't disappear. Fact of the matter is that our nation is 50% total idiots and unless we figure a way to deal with that, we're going down with them.


Cher

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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. What I don't get about people like her...
What exactly did she think would happen after the bombing stopped? Did she think we would just pack up and come home? I guess I can't blame her, because no one even mentioned the aftermath on TV...just the fun part of shock and awe.

Yes, this will be a repeat of Poppy...it's the economy stupid. When Americans are faced with spending billions on some Arab country and getting more tax cuts....tax cuts will win every time.

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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's not $87B.
It's $150B! $87B is just the latest installment, and that's just for the next year.
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cmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes, but 87 billion is what is going to anger people
They are not involved enough to add. We don't want to confuse them. 87 billion will do quite well.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Sheeple understand monetary costs but not human...sad.
It wasn't until Enron crashed with a gazillion dollars missing that the American press and sheeple began to question the infallibility of the White House after 9/11. Sadly, enormous amounts of 'missing' money are what a materialistic consumer culture responds to-not quality of life issues or justice for the world's human family...so sad...
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. When they start running headlines, he'll go down to 40-35%
The media can't hold him up forever, although they will try.

There is a core of diehard BushCo supporters--the racists, the super-rich, the young republican--but everybody else will let him go once the sticker shock kicks in.

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whathappened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. this sucker has
toast from day one for me , i hd no use for him when he was running and i have even less use for him today , why dont he just jump over board and call it quits like he has done his whole life and let a real man take over or even a women , i think my wife would make a good presadent , she takes no shit off anybody and no's how to spend a dollar the right way
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. He's as naked as the day
he was spawned.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Money talks..
Hit a republican in the heart, he takes a pepto bismol..

Hit him in his wallet and he heads for the ER.. :)
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hey, TIA. That shite you were talkin last January now starts lookin good!
Wasn't it you who kept posting how we were going to beat this moron in '04, kept talking about how we were going to kick there asses big time? That was back when nobody bought it. I sure didn't. Where'd you get that crystal ball?
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
22. I think this is standard right wing "thinking"
They ALWAYS want to carpet bomb third world countries....doesn't matter one bit who it is, how many killed, what the reason is...doesn't matter. They have a strong bloodlust. But like any party animal, they NEVER want to clean up the mess they make.

We will be paying reparations to Iraq for the rest of all of our lives for the grave sin we committed against them...same with Afghanistan. Carpet bombing a country for 10 months in a vain attempt to capture a handful of people that probably had nothing to do with 9-11 in the first place.
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