Where exactly are all of these Dean bashers???????????????????????????????

[ShaneGR]

Twice now in the last few days I've seen threads started complaing about all of the Dean bashing. Each time I've taken the time to look at the rest of the threads up, during that time, that happen to be about Dean. I've copied and pasted page 1 to here. I fail to see where all of this bashing is actually at.

Clark, Kerry, Edwards supporters need to actively unite to stifle Dean Bombtrack Mon Sep-22-03 09:05 PM 40
Even though there isn't actually any bashing of Dean within this thread, I'll call it a bash just because it says "stifles" in the title.
Bush won’t offer Iraq concessions--MSNBC.com CRYINGWOLFOWI... Mon Sep-22-03 09:05 PM 22
Quick warning to Dean supporters WilliamPitt Mon Sep-22-03 09:04 PM 125 Not a Dean bash, read it.
Crossifre: Polls Don't Matter..Bush is Fine! Cush Mon Sep-22-03 09:04 PM 7
UN Members: Don't boo Bush! You'll only build Bush up! FullCountNotR... Mon Sep-22-03 09:04 PM 10
Gallup... that's GALLUP... has Bush at 50% (47% disapproval)! Brotherjohn Mon Sep-22-03 09:04 PM 1
Which Dean supporters want to leave DU if the bashing continues? liberalnurse Mon Sep-22-03 09:04 PM 0
The reason I started this thread.
Gore could put an end to all this infighting, you know. angka Mon Sep-22-03 09:04 PM 58
Take the Blitzer poll, please 9/22 ronzoNOLA Mon Sep-22-03 09:03 PM 5
I admit it--Gen. Clark is now the front runner for nomination CMT Mon Sep-22-03 09:03 PM 18
Good News All of our candidates can defeat Bush per poll CMT Mon Sep-22-03 09:03 PM 2
2004: The Nightmare Scenario for Dems janekat Mon Sep-22-03 09:03 PM 5
BBV: Now You Can Search Diebold memos: RIGHT HERE - GlobalFreePress bpilgrim Mon Sep-22-03 09:02 PM 53
Dean Supporters Please Unite to Break Fundraising Goals stoptheinsand... Mon Sep-22-03 09:02 PM 15
postive Dean.
Quick warning to Kerry supporters! trumad Mon Sep-22-03 09:02 PM 0
New poll on CNN during Crossfire. Pepperbelly Mon Sep-22-03 09:02 PM 2
"To the Reagan Democrats: Welcome Home!" (Wesley Clark for Prez) IndianaGreen Mon Sep-22-03 09:02 PM 74
SD Rep. kills guy running stop sign, gets his name wrong in "apology" AlinPA Mon Sep-22-03 09:02 PM 5
BBV - somebody needs to inform Jerry Brown grasswire Mon Sep-22-03 09:01 PM 4
Kennedy at the Aquarium--SMOKIN! DrBB Mon Sep-22-03 09:01 PM 28
Hackworth RETRACTS "Perfumed Prince", is "very impressed". tjdee Mon Sep-22-03 09:01 PM 4
Do Repubs really want to win next election ? kentuck Mon Sep-22-03 09:01 PM 10
**** Who's headed to D.C. on Oct. 25? Let's pull something together **** prolesunited Mon Sep-22-03 09:01 PM 71
Apology/explanation to all who thought I was condescending yesterday WilliamPitt Mon Sep-22-03 09:01 PM 23
Janklow couldn't be more sorry????? eleny Mon Sep-22-03 09:00 PM 9
BBV: The question of ethics and morality at Diebold plan9_pub Mon Sep-22-03 09:00 PM 74
CNN's Inside Politics - New Poll: Bush at 50% VolcanoJen Mon Sep-22-03 09:00 PM 39
education policy comes down to this: ulysses Mon Sep-22-03 08:59 PM 0
538 Electoral votes. Bush "selected" in FL by 537 FullCountNotR... Mon Sep-22-03 08:58 PM 0
Conservatives are TERRIFIED.... sidwill Mon Sep-22-03 08:58 PM 17
Dean supporters need to set an example of tolerance for Edwards supporters BurtWorm Mon Sep-22-03 08:57 PM 18
Positive Dean thread.
Utterly pathetic -- Repubs trying to spin poor poll numbers CatWoman Mon Sep-22-03 08:54 PM 0
What do people think about Clark's naming.... familydoctor Mon Sep-22-03 08:54 PM 4
Cartoon: Joel Pett on the wealth gap Mairead Mon Sep-22-03 08:53 PM 3
Rummy Shakes Saddam's hand familydoctor Mon Sep-22-03 08:53 PM 3
The Invasion of Syria and Iran Kusala Mon Sep-22-03 08:52 PM 15
Man, does it feel good to support Kucinich. Colin Ex Mon Sep-22-03 08:52 PM 6
Bush said, "I can't believe I just shat myself." kentuck Mon Sep-22-03 08:52 PM 1
I won’t be voting for Diane Feinstein next time BEFOREATHOUGH... Mon Sep-22-03 08:49 PM 19
Latest Pro-bush AstroTurf letters



So, where are all these Dean bashers at?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[AWD]

9. So far going well

I got sidetracked by a few things, but I've got my campaign plan set up, and we're looking at hiring a campaign manager now.

Speaking engagements set up for two places right now, and a fundraiser to coincide with OSU/UM game.

Slow going for now. It will hit a full head of steam in October!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

5. Geez, NicholasJ posts REAL threads with links, LINKS!!!

My god LINKS!!!!...and you call him insane? Go do some research and find some links and counter the "bashing".

[AWD]

8. Oh, that's right...

I forgot to mention NewYorkerFromMass...major Dean basher/Kerry apologizer

Welcome to my ignore list!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. he says with hands up to ears

and "I can't hear you...." emenating from mouth. :eyes:

[w13rd0]

11. One of those trolls the chat and blogs...

...as well by the same name. It's really quite deplorable, but perhaps they enjoy "getting fat in front of the computer" trolling other candidates, rather than supporting their own...

[Woodstock]

25. how could you leave off

one of the biggest bashers of them all. Someone who hates Dean with a passion. And can never muster anything close to this passion for her own candidate. In fact, I've never heard her say one positive thing about Kerry. Just relentless, hateful Dean bashing, morning, noon, and night.

She, along with the three you mentioned have been on my ignore list for a while. In fact, my ignore list consists exclusively of Dean bashers who have been hateful, passive agressive (I love these, they act all astonished when you call them on it), and/or tedious. Life is short, why waste it on nonsense.

If there are serious complaints about Dean, I want to talk about it. It's better that we know everything now. But the childish bashing is a drag and accomplishes nothing.

[unfrigginreal]

3. You won't see this because you have me on ignore but...

your participation in bombtrack's thread to ORGANIZE resistance to Dean, a Democratic candidate, is uncalled for and makes you part of the problem.

[tjdee]

6. Uh, sgr2 didn't reply to bombtrack's thread as of 5:30pm ET.n/t

[unfrigginreal]

16. sgr2 wrote in support of bombtracks thread here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=383903

According to him organizing against another Democratic candidate is not "bashing."

[salin]

4. So calling on others to actively try to prevent people from voting for

a candidate - isn't a form of bashing? That was the whole point of the first thread to which you refer.

[Cappurr]

7. Can't we all just get along???

This is silly. There is no need to bash any candidate. Support the candidate of your choice. But to point out the weaknesses of another candidate is not really "bashing" so some people need to grow a thicker skin.

I'm not a Dean supporter mainly because I think he can't win, but also I think he is a little obnoxious at times. On the other hand, he has put up a hell of a fight, brought important issues to the fore and you have to respect him for that. He's not afraid to say what he thinks, which, unfortunately is a curse in politics (but to me it is a strenth).

[dsc]

22. This Dean supporter has all but had it

in defending Dean I have run across articles about other candidates filled with as many lies as has been posted about Dean. I have assiduously avoided posting them but the out and out lies posted by supporters of Kerry, Kucinich, Gephardt, and Clark are about on my last nerve. I know it isn't all of the supporters or even most of the supporters of the above doing this but frankly if it doesn't stop soon it is going to be hard not to yield to the temptation. It is one thing to post what you honestly think is true or that you think maybe true. It is quite another to post the same thing time and again when it has been debunked. I have posted the ins and outs of amending the Vermont constitution over half a dozen times yet I still see threads pretending it can't be amended. I have seen several threads about Dean's condition and still I see this crap about draft dodging. I defended Kerry when he was attacked for saying get over it and for the S and B nonsense, I defended Kucinich on the 'bankrupting Cleveland' charge and on the NAACP forum, I defended Gephardt on the NAACP forum, and I defended Clark on some of the absurd war crimes stuff. But I am tired of the crap. I have had about as much of getting along this style as I am going to take.

[dsc]

10. Please see my thread on Dean and gays in Vermont in P and C

This is a particularly outrageous example of typical Dean basher behavior given how I behaved relative to Sandandsea's thread about Washington candidates ( I didn't post due to his or her telling Dean supporters not to). You can see for yourself that Dean bashers had so such compunction.

Or maybe you can look at the thread on Dean and the draft.

Or maybe you can see the snarky comments in the Dean bat threads.

You might try actually looking before you post.

BTW I defy you to find one thread or for that matter post by me in which I bash Clark.

[ibegurpard]

12. Here is one of the most egregious offenders

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=383848&mesg_id=383848

Please don't try to tell me if I started a thread like that about a candidate you support that you would be just fine with it.

[Cappurr]

18. This is politics....it ain't bean bag

While I agree some people get pretty snide and that is just plain rude and reflects on them...not you or your candidate. But you gotta understand there are people who imho sensibly believe that the repugs would love to have Dean to run against and we know damn good and well what Rove and Co. are capable of, so this poster was just suggesting a strategy to circumvent that. (I do agree the word "stiffle" was a poor choice of word.

[salin]

20. stifle?

It is as important to get people NOT to vote for Dean as it is to get people to vote for your candidate.

THat is more than stifle. It could be benign... hey cappur you really don't want to vote for that guy... Or perhaps it could be worse - lets start sending letters to the editor that rely on newsmax type links and chose the worse inneundo and let people think it is true... Or perhaps it gets even worse (lets design push polls!)

It is ugly enough without this haven becoming and organizing place for that kind of activity.

[Cappurr]

24. I agree with that Salin...

We shouldn't use DU for that kind of "dirty tricks". I just didn't see that thread as calling for dirty tricks. I DID say the word "stiffle" is wrong.

[AP]

13. I don't know why people get upset about pointing out verifiable

(or even quasi-legitimate) criticisms of a Democratic candidate.

I mean, you have to be an egomaniac to think that anything said here isn't going to be noticed first (or independantly) by highly-paid, professional campaign managers.

When people write things like, "You're making Rove happy" or "you're giving Rove ideas" I think, man, is that stupid.

If anything, they'd be unhappy that something they planned to use got out first and was addressed, argued and either dismissed or went into someone's calculus for making their primary vote.

It's good to hash this stuff out now. It'd be stupid not to consider these things now, and then have the candidate go off into the general election without being able to counter-argue all the things Rove will inevitably use to attack the nominee.

[AP]

14. I don't know why people get upset about pointing out verifiable

(or even quasi-legitimate) criticisms of a Democratic candidate.

I mean, you have to be an egomaniac to think that anything said here isn't going to be noticed first (or independantly) by highly-paid, professional campaign managers.

When people write things like, "You're making Rove happy" or "you're giving Rove ideas" I think, man, is that stupid.

If anything, they'd be unhappy that something they planned to use got out first and was addressed, argued and either dismissed or went into someone's calculus for making their primary vote.

It's good to hash this stuff out now. It'd be stupid not to consider these things now, and then have the candidate go off into the general election without being able to counter-argue all the things Rove will inevitably use to attack the nominee.

[salin]

15. legitimate and smear

legitimate: what was Clark's record while central command of NATO in Kosovo.

Smear (very questionable source): Clark is a war criminal!

legitimate: vote for x y or z as they have the best chance to win

crackpot: lets organize to figure out a way to defeat z candidate (heading toward ratfucking?)

So its a fine line. THink that the complaints are not about any criticism/critique or discussing a challenging aspect of candidate y's candidacy. I think the complaints are about the onslaught of really questionable shit that appears to attempts to divide and drive permanent wedges among democrats.

[AP]

19. People are only putting their own credibility on line when they smear

and there are plenty of people here willing to defend their candidates.

I'd still prefer hashing out the ideas and arguments, then trying to sweep them under the carpet, allowing Bush to bring them out for the first time.

[salin]

21. On stuff that is legitimate I agree

but the on and on and on Kerry and skull and bones (and all sorts of kooky stuff/innuendo) that does not end with debate - because NOTHING will shake it that gets ridiculous and completely counter productive.

And indeed it does to the most damage (in terms of credibility) to those perpetrating it.

[FlemingsGhost]

23. Still here, sgr2? Have the secret meetings adjourned?

Is there a "hi" sign; secret hand shake, perhaps?

To whom have the members of your "list" sworn their loyalty?

Go ahead, fight it. Your self-appointed position of forum police chief requires you to do so...

[Skinner]

26. I'm locking this thread.

It appears to be simply an effort to call out various people who aren't here.

Skinner
DU Admin