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Apology/explanation to all who thought I was condescending yesterday

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 03:56 PM
Original message
Apology/explanation to all who thought I was condescending yesterday
with that 'Quick warning to Dean supporters' thread.

1. I'm sorry if I came off sounding like a dickhead. This was not my intention.

2. I was attempting, in my inimical dickheaded way, to talk to Dean supporters who are new to politics. I've noticed that flavor among the ranks of his supporters, and that is one of his greatest strengths. My ham-fisted McGovern metaphor was probably not the best vehicle for that, nor was my tone. But I found today an article that exemplifies exactly what I was driving at:

Dean, Driven by the Grass Roots
By Lois Romano
Washington Post

Monday, September 22, 2003

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44798-20...

(snip)

Thousands of Dean supporters -- many of whom profess never to have been active before -- have taken to the streets on their own initiative to pass out Dean fliers at urban fairs and farmers markets, donate blood and clean up beaches in his name, and raise millions of dollars for the former Vermont governor at house parties.

(snip)

As for Powers -- she is having the time of her life, and for now Dean is her life. She has met any number of "very cool people" who work and play together and have taught themselves about grass-roots politics. But will she stay with the Democrats if Dean is not the nominee?

"This is a question that I have asked myself. I would certainly campaign against George Bush, but it would be difficult to work as intensely as I am working for Howard Dean. He feels less like politics as usual -- which is not what I am interested in."

...more...

THAT is what I was trying (and failing) to drive at. "He feels less like politics as usual." Problem is, sooner or later, he will say or do something or many things that will absolutely reek of politics-as-usual. It has nothing to do with Dean, and everything to do with the shark-infested waters he is swimming in. I am hopeful that Ms. Powers won't lose her hopefulness or her drive when that happens. And for all the other Ms. Powerses out there and in here, that was what I was trying to say.

So, sorry again if I offended. I meant well, and I do think this is really important.
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TioDiego Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Start a thread about it.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. *snarf*
:)
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Oh My GAWD!!!
That was too fuckin' funny. I'm talking spew my afternoon snack all over the desk funny.

Will, ya know I luv ya more than my luggage, but he smacked your ass dude. Hee.

Darth Velma
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's okay. The competition for biggest dickhead
...around here has been remarkably stiff lately (excuse the pun--or don't). I don't even think you're in the top ten.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Depends on who you ask
:)
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Nice pun though
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? ;)

PS I'm just fooling around, don't take it personally.
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Actually, I have a pretty decent irony/sarcasm detector
...unlike a lot of people around here. Gets me in trouble sometimes--I think I'm being broadly, obviously ironic or sarcastic and people will... well, you know. But I hate using the old </sarcasm> thing, don't you?
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MariMayans Donating Member (250 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. maybe he will reinvent himself
His whole campaign so far has been spent mainly making up a brand new politician. Maybe if he gets in he will feel like he has to dance with those who brung him :shrug:
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. thank you for the article
and I know you meant well. I know that Dean may do something in the future which will disappoint his supporters. What politician doesn't on occassion? I feel secure from talks with many people at Meetups here in Madison that even if Dean isn't our nominee that most Deanites will unite behind the nominee and work to defeat the evil that is George W. Bush.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. One of my friends is mentioned in that article
:bounce:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. That Was A Very Informative Thread
Learned alot about McGovern that I was too young to have known at the time.

And it's always interesting to get different takes on political strategy and such.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. We are so reactive
with good reason but your intentions were good. It has been a hell of a long time since I, and probably many of us have been this fired up and inspired. The stakes are so high. It is easy to forget that they are just humans swimming in "shark infested waters". Good point, good intentions and really nice of you to apologize and explain.
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PAMod Donating Member (651 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. I wasn't offended, but as soon as I see "Dean" and "McGovern"
in the same paragraph, I go nuts. I know that wasn't the main jist of your post, but that irritating comparison made the rest of the page go blank for me, and apparently, for others.

Short of announcing that he supports additional arbitrary invasions of sovereign nations, I can't think of anything that Governor Dean might say or do that would blow his neophyte supporters out of the water. I think the biggest "politics as usual" thing that Dean might do is to forego matching federal funds, after saying months ago that he wouldn't.

But even political novices can be pragmatic and will probably respond by digging even deeper into their pockets to put our team in office.

WilliamPitt, not only are you an excellent writer, but your apology shows you have grace and refinement.



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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Hee...yup...
that's what I think of when I think of Will. Graceful and refined. *snort* His mother would be proud. ;-)

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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. darn
I thought it was going to be about this thread, especially the "dumb, empty and politically ignorant" part. :-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Well
I look at the last post in that thread and decide that an apology isn't going to be forthcoming. :)
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I bet you liked this part
"Thank you Will for being an oasis of civility and wisdom on this forum."

Yeah, there's too little of people calling people dumb and ignorant around here. I picked out my oasis avatar in your honor. :-)
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. I think you're accidentally conflating two issues, Will.
Yes, there are many people working hard for Dean who have never actively worked for (or donated to) a candidate before ... or who haven't done so for a long time. However, the vast majority of these folks are smart, savvy, pragmatic and determined. This isn't the same breed of political newbies as the idealistic kids who supported McGovern and McCarthy way back when. In fact, most aren't kids at all.

I think I'm pretty well qualified to judge here, since my first campaign was Kennedy's (JFK) when I was 15, I'm a director of one of the most influential Democratic organizations in Illinois, and I'm a Cook County Illinois ward chair.

Frankly, I haven't seen a real winner in Democratic presidential politics since RFK ... until this year. Yes, I've worked for and supported every candidate all this time, but none of them had the whole package, including Clinton. In my opinion, and that of my friends who are old-time politicos, Dean is the real deal. The enthusiasm of his supporters reflects that. But I haven't met a single one who takes any damn thing for granted, or who doesn't think it will take immensely hard work to capture the nomination and win the general election.

We're in this for the long, hard, grinding haul. Because, Will, you know as well as anyone that taking this country back and beginning to turn it in a positive direction will be the most difficult ... and the most important ... thing any of us has ever tried to accomplish.

I believe that if anyone can do it, Dean is the right candidate, at the right time, with the right campaign organization and the right approach to voters. But DAMN, the obstacles are enormous, and winning ... even winning the presidency ... is just one step in a journey of a thousand miles.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. The that thread, and this one,
was not directed at you. :)
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. I was fine with it
Just don't mention Dukakis, and we'll do fine. :)
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. NOOOOOOOO...
don't bring up Dukakis. I turned 18 just before the 1988 presidential election. I may well have been the ONLY person in the United States who was excited about that election (including the candidates). :-)

I hated Reagan and I loathed Bush and I was young and naive and idealistic and god I cried when Dukakis lost.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. Not Necessary
I thought your intentions were clear. Even if not to all, you Will are afforded a lot of leway in my book because you more often than not, provide incredible reason and insight into the issues.

Today's article about the Patriot Act is a must-read for all DUers:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/092203A.shtml
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. As someone who responded to the original
I won't go into my "rant" again--actually it was a wannabe rant--

The article you posted was discussed yesterday--and yes it does talk about issues you wanted to emphasize--

I take it as well-intended, and all--

After a while, you must understand, however, that some of us get tired of being reminded of the fact. We get a bit miffed at being lumped together as complete political neophytes. Some of us don't need pedantic approaches--your's was not as pedantic as what we "give" ourselves on the blog.

The various threads on blog for america are filled with this sort of advice from one Dean supporter to another--we encourage, cajole, castigate, and lecture each other on all the various points of the campaign, the movement and the candidate. If anything we're 1000% harder on each other than any of the "Dean-bashers" on the Democratic Underground. It's a fascinating example of the democratic process, I must say. On a side note--it was unfortunate that the Note (via ABCNews) decided to take just a snippet from the blog-- To do that is like putting your foot in a river--you never can do it again and have it be in the same river. (there's a saying somewhere in there that I can't remember)-- The point is-- the blog for dean is very much a stream of consciousness for those involved. I don't know what the other candidate's blogs are like--I've not visited them (that's a major bone of contention btw--those who admit to doing so on Dean blog are taken to task by others)

BTW--to end this ramble-- The WP article was viewed quite positively on the blog yesterday-- it was seen as relatively clear--and whereas some might view our "newbie" status as a potential downside--many of those participating in the campaign view it as an asset-- we know Dean's human and a politician--he'll do things we don't like--but the majority of us realize that life is like that. He's enough "not politics as usual" for me to stomach a bit of politicking on occasion. Furthermore--some of us are addicted to the twists the campaign takes -- always something new-- Like the Texas Rangers being flown to the Midwest, or the 10-day 5 million (?!!) campaign...

Keep it up Will-- as always, it's a pleasure



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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
24. CONDESCENDING PRICK
*OK I didn't read that thread* :7
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