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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:53 AM
Original message
Now that Clark is the frontrunner
his campaign should play up the newsweek poll (specifically the part where he beats Bush in the south 47-45%) to create the impression that he is the only one that can beat Bush, which could cause a movement of other candidates supporters dropping their man for the one that they think can win. Overall, Clark should continue to build on his campaign theme of "third-way politics" and hope rather than the so-called "politics of personal destruction"

Those themes, in combo with the benifits of his resume, should help him overcome the late start.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nice try
I like Clark as much as the next guy - but aren't we jumping the gun a bit annointing him the frontrunner after two days? The Newsweek poll is promising for Clark - but we haven't even seen him debate.

Another note - it was the dems avoiding the "politics of personal destruction" that led to Bush walking all over them. I'm not saying we need to be mean spirited, but we have to be able to give as good as we get - if not better.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm commenting on politics
The latest poll shows Clark in the lead, and while he obviously isnt the clear leader, he is ahead in the latest scientific poll. Im not trying anything, but pointing out facts that could help his campaign from a political perspective.

Another thing, i didnt say that he shouldnt stand up for himself but rather continue with the campaign theme of being beyond the partisanship of washington. I Think it is smart and will play very well with the independants.

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RichV Donating Member (858 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. In the lead
by two points ahead of three other candidates with a margin of error of +/-4. Doesn't mean much other than he's in the first tier of candidates.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. ive acknowledged that.
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. yeah yeah yeah....just like the "everyone should quit" stuff we heard
from the Dean camp a month ago. i sometimes wonder what the average age of a DUer is.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. im not following
could you clarify what you mean? Thanks.

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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. Clark has my vote so far in Florida
But whoever the winner I will not hold grudges, I will be voting a straight Democratic ticket no matter who is on it. Also this will be my first time to ever do that.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I like the picture of Clark with a war criminal hat on
it's at Drudge right now and as Bob Marley says:

If the cap fits, let them wear it.

Clark is a bozo with no hope of being our leader. He works for the military induistrial complex as well as CNN.

I'd just as soon see Soledad O'Brien as President. Or Bill Hemmer.

They are all about as qualified except O'Brien and Hemmer haven't committed crimes against humanity (except by butchering the news and selling out,. like Clark, to the Media Whore Pimps)
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. And it is people like you that will split the Democratic ticket
I guess some people want for more years of the Bushies.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Drudge Report , huh?
:eyes:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. Isn't Drudge A Freeper?
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 10:36 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
NT


The genesis of that story is that Clark thought he had a deal to end the Bosnian conflict peacefully so he exchanged hats with the commander and then the commander and the Serbs stabbed him in the back by reneging on the agreement....

Clark gets slammed for prosecuting the war on Milosevic and for trying to prevent it....

He can't win with some folks...


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CRYINGWOLFOWITZ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. interesting, seeing how he ended genocide in the balkans
drudge wants dirt, and this is all he can find. capgate apparently LOL.
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
29. Everytime I start to feel bad about starting the following thread
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Trawling for flame bait, I see.
Junk like this doesn't belong in the discussion. This is worse than any 'Clark is a war criminal' nonsense.
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Didn't your Flame Bait poll get locked?
Oh yeah, it did, I wonder why?
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. Y*A*W*N
Clark is a war criminal.
Clark is a neocon.
Clark is Hillary's man-bot.
Clark is a perfumed pretty boy.
Clark is a bloodthirsty murdering maniac.
Since Clark was military, he is a pawn of the military-industrial complex.


I'm starting to like this guy if he's being attacked so viciously.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
43.  "Clark is a bozo"? Rhodes scholar,West Point faculty, NATO commander.
Just the facts please.
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. the NW poll is good news for Clark
but it came on the heels of intense media frenzy. Polls taken in the next few months will tell us for sure if he is the front runner or not. He certainly is a credible candidate and will make a strong run for the nomination. I would agree that the poll results are his strongest point so far in his favor, but Bush is weak all round with most of the democrats and I remember all too well that Gore was 15-20 points behind Bush up until the 2000 Dem convention--so these are just temporary snapshots in time.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I agree with you
time will tell if he's real for the Dem Nom.
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
30. You are correct.
Also, you have to look at the methodology of the poll. A lot of polls are weighted toward candidates who are picking up support. They do this on purpose to make the polls seem more interesting.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. Too early to declare Clark the frontrunner. Let's wait...
until he leads at least three consecutive polls before we declare victory. We also need to see him gain some momentum in the early primary states.

It's nice to be able to hear that based upon one poll he's the frontrunner, but it's hot realistic.

One thing we can take bragging rights for is, He's the frontrunner in our race against bush. If he continues to show the best against bush, that should help him in the primary races.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm
not saying that he is the Clear Leader, obviously, but the latest scientific poll has him ahead (although within the margin of error). Im technically correct, but better than that from Clarks perspective is it's an excellent marketing tool to get funding.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I know you're not saying that. My statement was for..
general consumption and not directed personally at you. :D
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Good Stuff
:pals:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Psst..
:pals:
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sham Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. nice backtracking. I see where you get it.
you declared him the frontrunner. let me remind you of something:

frontrunner: n. 1. One that is in a leading position in a race or other competition: the front-runner for the presidential nomination. (emphasis mine)

Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

that newsweek poll had an MOE of +/- 6 (!!!). and that was taken before his seemingly contradictory statements about the war, and his "joke" about Rove. we'll see what these "scientific polls" have to say in a few more weeks.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. No, i didnt backtrack. You didnt read what i wrote
i said that while he was within the margin of error, he was still leading the poll. Hence, frontrunner.
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einsteins stein Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. LOL, that's too funny
Why wait for three polls? Just announce victory after the next poll!

Why even bother going through the primary season? It's just so darn inconvenient!

I guess Clark supporters should be allowed their moment of glory, and I hope it lasts for them! However, they so far--as a subset of DU, not as individuals--have exhibit all of the negative aspects that they complained so bitterly about Dean supporters.

Is this just revenge, and will they get over it? Will this type of attitude pull the party togther, and bring in new voters?

We still have potential vote fraud to deal with, and the best way to do that, beyond ensuring the vote machines are safe, is to flood the polls with new Dem voters, old Dem Voters, white Dems, black Dems, brown Dems, male Dems, female Dems, whatever is left Dems, anybody who will vote Dem Dems!

If we dont do those simple things, then the Repukes could nominate a picture of Rush Limbaugh's anal cyst, and we won't beat it.

So, lets all take a look at our actions, and ask ourselves if we are helping our cause, or hurting ourselves?
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. You are misconstruing what i wrote
I didnt declare Clark the winner nor did i advocate any other candidate to leave because of him, so please dont misinterpret my words. I was making a point about the possible political advantage of being in the lead according to the Newsweek poll. I dont think of myself as irrational, and i try to be fair in my analysis of others, so please dont insinuate otherwise.
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einsteins stein Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Actually, I wasn't responding to you at all!
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 11:27 AM by einsteins stein
I was responding to Kahunas's post #7, where it was said that "we" should wait till Clark wins three polls before "we" declare victory.

Sorry if you misunderstood me :-)
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Girlfriday Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. It is interesting though.....
...that I just visited the C-span site, and Clark's video is the most watched. Doesn't matter to me, ABB!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. Clark has instant Name Recognition because of his CNN reporting as the
"General." Just the same as Aunold had instant name recognition. Remember that Poll that showed an overwhelming number of Democrats didn't even know who was running?

It was to be expected that he would come out strong.....because of his celebrity status with CNN.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. Front runner?
what makes you think that?
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. Caution folks, caution
Remember how the media likes to play the game:

Annoint...then destroy.

Actually, they've already played the game with Dean. Unfortunately, in he end, if they keep playing this game the voting public will think there is NOBODY WORTH VOTING FOR...SO STAY HOME!
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
21. If Clark has the right stuff to be President, he'll endure the ardorous
race for the nomination. If he doesn't the race will show us why he's not fit to be president. The Newsweek poll is a based on a bubble, not on any political talent Clark has.

There is only one candidate so far, who is handling the ardorous race well, and that is Howard Dean.

If Clark is on top now due to media blitz and no talent, his campaign will follow the laws of gravity -- what goes up must come down.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I disagree
The reason Clark is doing well is not because of his appearances on political talkshows but because people percieve him to be the best against bush because the think his military record would help the Dems with their weak on defence perception.

I agree that time will tell whether his campaign can overcome the obstacles, but that's kind of unnecessessary to mention because it's redundant.

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cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. come on!
The American public knows nothing about this person. There are some news reports that are pretty unflattering, I might mention. Do you care. As you should not get carried away with this unknown, I should give him some time before I totally regect him, I again might add.
However, if the American people get all carried away with such an unknown quanity- then, only explectives could be added to adjectives that describe our stupidity.
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CRYINGWOLFOWITZ Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. worried clark doesn't have the toughness?
he got shot 4 times in vietnam and kept fighting
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Hell, you could argue that Sharon has toughness,
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 01:39 PM by CWebster
or Saddam had toughness, but since when did it become the redeeming feature for the Democrats to idealize in their leadership?

This guy ain't nothing but a uniform, and what it represents doesn't make me secure or enthusiastic. The Right will rip him apart due to the fact that he was Clinton's man and Clinton signed off on his "early retirement". This is a liability in the "strong on defense" supposed advantage. He has already waffled on the most important issue and his earlier speeches paint him as a hawk if not a zealot. He is weak on domestic issues, and has already committed more gaffes than the others who have been campaigning and under hostile media scrutiny for months. There is no way he will get the progressive vote.

The thing is, will it matter? Note that just prior to Clarks grand, but bland performance upon entry, that the media started this spin broadcasting there was a lackluster, boring field who this early in the game had not yet excited and ignited voters. What a crock, but they spout this shit like it is some kind of obvious truth. What is obvious to me is that those behind the Clark campaign will stop at nothing and will push anything or anyone ---even if it is just a uniform to halt Howard Dean.

I resent it and for that reason alone I support Dean more than ever.

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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. yeah, too bad lieberman didn't follow this advice!
lieberman started out ahead in the polls, too.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Joe's still in third in the Newsweek poll.
Shows you what the poll is worth.

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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. actually i think it does
since it either shows how much attention the democratic base is paying attention to the primary, or (hopefully im wrong) his message is still popular enough to get him that much.
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Bertrand Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Youre right
the problem with lieberman is that he not only chastised the people for their progressive beliefs, he did it in an arrogant manner, and attacked other candidates with over-the-top criticisms that upset the base while having no argument as to why he would beat bush (especially coming off of bad mid-terms). As the other candidates became famous, and because Joe ran a primary campaign as a conservative pragmatist, he continued to lose support.

Plus, Liebermans numbers were overinflated anyways because of him being on the ticket with Gore in 2000, so people actually heard of him.
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
39. live by the poll, die by the poll
I think he might want to begin making his positions clear and stable and to find some meat to put upon the bones of his message.

Lead or watch the scoreboard ? Would not seem to be a difficult choice to make...
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