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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:17 AM
Original message
"West Wing" to change.............
somewhat. I knew this day was coming. I knew the right wingers would be raising hell about this. Actually, I'm surprised it took this long. OK, one more show off my list.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainment...
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe it won't be too bad.
Maybe by presenting the idiotic, simplistic, mean-spirited, know-nothing arguments of the repuke side, people will really be able to see just how ridiculous repukes really are.
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Jen72 Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. I agree
It might wake up the moderate Republicans that are no more relate to the religous right then we do. They will see a good fair minded Republican and what is not in the real White House.

TWW have done this before with characters like Ainsley Hayes and that lawyer that went out with Donna Moss. The idea that people with different views can be reasonable,intelligent people is a good one.
However characters like Mary Marsh and the Rob Ritchie character will always look like narrow minded, ignorant idiots. The fact that they reflect current Conservatives is unavoidable.If they do not like what they see,they need to look at themselves. They can not be made into likeable people. I think the show does reflect idiot Dems too.
In the West Wing Bartlet, Leo and CJ are Catholics and Toby and Josh are Jewish so they are never going to reflect the ideals of the squealers on the right want reflected.

The truth is The West Wing is going to have a very difficult time, this year. They have already had death threats and cast members such as Martin Sheen and Bradley Whitford are on the "traitor" list.
Today despite The West Wing winning best drama at the Emmy's, every article seems to lead with " dispite the falling ratings."
The press seems to have its claws out to savage The West Wing, they are snide in their compliments. They are fighting to stay on air.
They are portraying a White House that is fairly Liberial and a everything that Bush's White House is not, The West Wing will be seen as deeply dangerous.
Think of ER, they brought in a right wing desk clark and too a conservative he may come across as one of them, but he is still an ignorant bigot.
I am looking forward to seeing what will be done with this. John Wells has a Democratic slant, ER is generally liberal. He made a main character a Lesbian, has a lead character named John Truman Carter and he helped make George Clooney what he is.
I think it will be done right, in away that will me the right wingers think that are being heard, when in fact they are being exposed.

I also think the John Goodman is on a short contract and he is a well played character.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not having seen the show until just recently
on Bravo reruns, I would rather it go the route of the old Lou Grant show rather than follow in the mediawhore decline. They have everything else and they are whining about a drama? If it ain't broke...
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elfwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. I'm with you...
I've only recently begun watching the show on Bravo. The new ones come on at the same time as another show I have been watching for a while. I really like the ones on Bravo. It has become a new ritual at my home. We watch West Wing at 6pm and Jon Stewart at 10pm.

I like it the way it is and cannot see any reason to try to make it more "fair". The RIGHT is in no way fair. They never try to be. So why take one of the only things that gives a good left spin and try to make it balanced? THEY never would.
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Brucey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bad idea!
They are not gonna pick up repug viewers and will lose liberals. I will not watch it anymore if it's goal is to be balanced. I can get plenty of balance. I would like at least one show that portrays liberal ideas in a good light. We have none. Even the Simpsons is not the same anymore.
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree,
just like Liberals do not listen to talk radio, cons will not watch a show like "The West Wing." If they move too far to the right, they will lose viewers and the show will tank.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
25. Liberals WILL listen to talk radio
just not Liambaugh/Hannity/O'Really?/Ingraham/DrLaura/DennisPrager/LarryElder/AlRantel/NeilBoortz/MichaelSavage..etc..

They hog all the airwaves, so naturally the liberals do not see much that interests them..

Liberals spend lots of time in their cars and would listen, IF there was someting worth listening to :(

That's our problem..
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ObaMania Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
27. I agree...
You saw how fast that great show Mr. Sterling was dropped. And he wasn't even a liberal!

Probably couldn't get enough Repuke viewers. 'Course when any show goes head-to-head with WWE Friday night RAW you're gonna lose all your 'pug to that!

My apologies to DU Wrassling fans!

:eyes:
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Why not watch it first, then make up your mind?
Isn't panning it sight-unseen a bit unfair?
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Dead on
First of all, the show has always made efforts to be bi-partisan; Ainsley Hayes played a republican who loved her country and made reasonable arguments (sometimes).

Secondly, I mean I know that we are angry with Republicans (and we have good reason) but we are a democracy. They aren't going anywhere, and if they aren't, than Bi-Partisan ship, where both sides put the country first is the ideal isn't it? I'd be pissed if CNN tried to show that (cause Republicans aren't interested, right now, in working with Democrats), but on a fantasy TV show I don't mind a little Bi-Partisanship.

I'm more worried about Aaron Sorkin Leaving than I am about any moves towards bi-partisan ship.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. I think you make some good points.
My first concern will be the quality of the writing and the believability of the scripts. In other words, will the departure of Aaron Sorkin drastically change the show I've watched for years? Stay tuned!

As for Republican characters, they've long been turning up, and not always in a negative context. As someone has already mentioned, members of the GOP have served as show consultants. And I had the impression that Bartlet was always dealing with a Republican majority, not fully in control of three branches of government.

Besides, if we feel the quality has declined, we can raise a fuss with the network. Let's wait and see what happens on Wednesday night.
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Brucey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. Democracy?
It's hard to see it by watching television.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. I can smell a skunk before I see it
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Jen72 Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
45. It is not a skunk it is a TV show.
And John Goodman is execellent in it. Is he himself a conservative Republican he doesn't play one.
I still think that by bringing in some nice, intelligent, interesting Republicans it will strike home, that they are not the kind that are in the White House
If CJ who worked for Emily's Life turns Pro Life, if Toby a Jew stops fight against school prayer or Josh is nice to Mary Marsh then we will have to worry.
John Wells already has a show with a Liberial bend called ER.
He can keep that Liberial bend and he can also keep casting Democrats.
I have no problem with the them making a Republican Majority whip becoming a character, he is well played. They have had nasty repubs too that Anne woman for a start.
They have always had Republican and Democratic consultants on the show, that is how they are sure to get the arguements correct and well balanced. Sometimes in the West Wing a Republican is even right.

By protesting and not watching you are playing into the hands of the right wing that want TWW cancelled. They are not going to be to controversial most of the main cast have struggled in their careers and want to work.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. Maybe it will showcase the repukes
as the carpetbaggers and neocon fundamentalist that they are.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Jesus
Funny. Bartlet is a JFK Democrat - a socially liberal hawk, for the most part. Dread the thought that this essentially mainstream view held by most Americans might get wider play.

I think, though, that this might work. Think about it. 'Balanced' = Repubs and Dems arguing the same issues we have to deal with in the election. Watch the TV Dems win the arguments. :)
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Patriot_Spear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. Just lost me as a viewer...
This is the season where West Wing 'Jumps the Shark'- bet on it.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. I trust the producers to get it right in the end
I enjoyed the Ainsley Hayes character and was disappointed to see her role diminished. I thought her presence in the show as a foil also provided a vehicle for a defense of the Dem issues and kept the show from getting too stuffy and erudite. I look forward to the next season and think the confrontation between the two parties will, in the end, showcase Dem ideals in a more persuasive way than presenting one side of the story can.
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Jen72 Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I agree....
I liked Ainsley Hayes, she was a Conservative Republican and i disagreed with much of what she said. But it did address things like Sterotypes, the assumpition the she would be mean, cold and ambitious,(Leo:CJ thinks you kill your pets - To Ainsley in This White House) when in fact she was bright,funny and nervous. The assumption that being a Conservative she is naturally racist and wrong when she was neither.
She also bore no relation to the Religious Right Conservatives, she could has intelligent conversations and give another side to things which isn't always a bad thing. It prevents the show from having the arrogance to say we Liberials are always right and Republicans are always wrong.
They have had other Republicans that have been arrogant, devious and reflect the dark side of the party, such as exposing Leo's past drug addiction.
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ma4t Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. maybe the show will more realistically reflect reality
Hard though it may be for many here to belive the world is not divided between "evil republicans" and "virtuous democrats".

I have friends and family that range from very conservative to very liberal politically. Guess what? Regardless of politics they are all nice people to know.

In the real world there are saints and scoundrels on both sides of the political spectrum. For every unreconstructed Trent Lott who longed for a Dixiecrat victory there is an Al Shapton whose naked appeals to racism resulted in the burning of a business and the death of innocents.

We would all be better served were we to focus on the actual arguments and policy decisions of those who would be our elected officials rather than their "labels".
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. Sorry, but I'm not letting this statement go unchallenged
"Al Shapton whose naked appeals to racism resulted in the burning of a business and the death of innocents. "

Care to elaborate on this one?
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. In my opinion by showing both sides
It will show that the Democrats are the better of the two.

Just my 2 cents.
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Impolitico Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
15. Oy!
Well jeez, seeing some of these idiotic replies it's no fucking wonder our country CONTINUES hurtling down the polarized path.... Not even watch a show because it tries to present a balanced point of view? Boycott a show just because it presents a contrary argument to your own?

Kids, without contraries is no progress. Get with the program. You need a balanced discourse to solve problems in a way that benefit all of the people instead of only some of them. If you're going to put blinders on to any argument that doesn't mesh perfectly with your own, you're no better than the hate machine we're all railing against.

Very disappointing.

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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Normally, I would agree with you.........
and others. But the last few years have changed me quite a bit. We are in the fight of our lives. We know they don't play fair. Our side has one place we can go to feel good about us. That was the "West Wing". It offered me comfort I could not find anywhere else on the dial. It was to me, everything good about Government and what the Democrat Party stood for in the old days. It made me feel safe and proud. I will miss that feeling if now we have to have disruption of the other side each week. This may sound petty, childish and/or disappointing to you. But for me, this is sad and still yet, another defeat.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I stand with you on this!
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 11:01 AM by PROGRESSIVE1
:mad:


Why the HELL should I watch this show when it will not be pandering to the FReepers in the name of "balance"!!! Is Faux News balanced?

DAMN IT!!! One of the few places we have to see our liberal/progressive viewpoints is being taken over by DAS REICH!

I will NOT be watching until they bring back our President Bartlett!!!

Hear that G O P - G E! I will not be watching your show!!!


:kick: Dem's in 2004'!!!!!!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Agreed!
I don't need to watch it anymore. It does feel like a defeat for our side. There is enough dispruption from the other side daily, which is why I enjoyed watching the show so much. It was a breath of fresh air that now stinks.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. But we have "Fair and Balanced" Fox News
What more could we possibly want?
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. In a world were Faux News is "Fair and Balanced"
Whenever I hear the word "balanced," I reach for my gun.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
20. Martin Sheen's not going to appear in a hack job
or a conservative show.

To those of you who think we are in the fight of our lives I would only say we thought so with Nixon and Reagan too. We survived. So will you.

Chill.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
21. West Wing should have told the right wingers
that it would become more partisan as soon as they did. This might work out, though--think of all the freep-bashing that could be done.


rocknation



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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I think you mean bi-partisan.
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RobinA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
26. Funny....
I never thought the show was all that liberal. It has its moments, but I always thought it was pretty centrist. The staff leans a bit liberal, but Bartlett normally went both ways. But then, I'm from the '60's-'70's, when being pro-life didn't mean you were liberal.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. Sorkin left, that's what happened.
IF the writing is good, I *may* watch it. After all, I'm watching K street and that's pretty neutral.

I was concerned about Sorkin leaving, and this doesn't help. I watch primarily for Martin Sheen (whether he was a Dem president or not), and I want to see what they do with him now that he's not the president. I like the others, so maybe I can commiserate with them over having to deal with a Republican superior. After all, we do live in George Bush's America.

But I will say in the back of my mind IT MAKES ME SICK that we can't even have a Democratic president in friggin TVLand without the Republicans screaming about "too liberal".
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SayitAintSo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. John Goodman will be exceptional in the role he is cast ...
Personally, I can't wait to see it ... I trust the creative talent to continue to provide good drama ...with a point.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I wish they'd kept John Larroquette.
I like when they have celebrities come in for bits, but I'm always disappointed when they leave. I remember John Larroquette with that bat....liked Oliver Platt...Christian Slater...Mary Louise Parker...
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I liked Moira Kelly
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. Here's the key to why it will become a pale shadow of its former self
Edited on Mon Sep-22-03 12:54 PM by Capn Sunshine
John Podhoretz.
This guy was mentioned like an afterthought ; yet he's one of the behind the scenes ideological puppet masters of the neocon philosophy. He has major juice, he is as thoroughly partisan as a neocon can get , and it would not be above him and his "principles" to work every way he can behind the scenes to create discord and foment dissent until the show self destructs, which is the neocon aim after all.

They hate having a popular network show on that points up the huge disparity between smirky and a "real " albeit democrat president.
They thoroughly despise the portrayal of dems as thinking, caring and spiritual people. You can't imagine how they hate it. They only want dems portrayed as venal ,corrupt ,selfish and traitorous.
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onecitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. That's what I thought Capn...........
after I did a quick search on this guy. It is a sad day indeed.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. Isn't it strange how one-sided partisan films...
...can be produced on 9-11 as propaganda for Bush* and the GOP but the Dems aren't allowed to have ONE friggin' 'liberal' TV show without it having to be 'bipartisan'?
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Grey Donating Member (933 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
36. ever heard of Archie Bunker?
This could be an eye-opener for some people. My Father never understood why the show 'all in the Family' had a laugh track.
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LifeDuringWartime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
37. wtf
--snip--

But Wells said Goodman's guest-starring role is just one way in which "West Wing," which some have criticized as being too liberal, too Democratic, will become more politically balanced this season.

--/snip

HOW can something be TOO democratic??? :wtf:
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
38. I Have A Theory Why Sorkin Left
I think he originally wanted to have it become known that Far Right Extremists (think Tom Delay) kidnapped Zoe to make Bartlett step down temporarily. And after having Goodman's character take over the Presidency... they wouldn't relinquish power.

Iin other words, I think Sorkin wrote the plot as an attempted Right Wing Coup and Upper Management deep sixed the idea.

Remember when Fitz thinks it's international terrorism and Nancy thinks it's too low tech?

Nancy says this is not a typical kidnapping: "Could it have been any more low-tech? A plan based on knowing when someone's going to need to use the bathroom?"


Fitz: "Seventeen Qumari nationals leave the country?"

Nancy: "Out of 10,000 in the country?"

Fitz says that every rental agency is out of vehicles and vans.

Nancy points out that every college student in the mid-Atlantic is moving this weekend: "We shut down the airports. Either they didn't know we were going to do that, or they didn't care. Either way, Mike, does this seem like a James Bond operation to you?"
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-22-03 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
41. The plot makes no sense...
How can the speaker take over... is there no vice president?
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Jen72 Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. No....
The Vice President has to resign in disgrace and had not yet been replaced.
The Bartlet administration has always struggled with a Republican Majority in the House. They have always had republicans.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-23-03 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
43. Actually it will be Art imitating Life. Goodman will start a war...
and Bartlett will be the Lone Ranger Liberal to kick his ass out of the office sign his papers to be executive again and bring back diplomacy and honor to our country, especially in his time of personal trajedy.

Sounds great to me...like real life...only Better!
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