Conundrum: Hardcore Republicans, but otherwise really intelligent.

[OrlandoGator]

I have a few friends and acquaintances who are just super-hardcore Republicans...you know, support Bush or you hate the troops. That kind of thing.

It's easy to write off such people as ignorant or stupid. But these folks I know are actually (otherwise) quite intelligent.

For example, there's a guy I work with who is a brilliant engineer who holds the rights to several technical patents. I really admire his work and dedication.

One day before the elections last year, we got to talking about BBV and the need for a paper trail. He surprised the hell out of me by saying that it's an unnecessary waste.

I tried to wrap my brain around this one, asking him if he really thought it was a good idea to just push a button and have your vote disappear somewhere. And he said yes.

We went back and forth, and he simply wouldn't budge. To him, all elections are legit and anyone who wants a paper trail is just a liberal kook.

So my question to you guys, is...how do you guys deal with Freeps who aren't mouth-breathing morans? Am I the only person who seems to encounter this phenomenon?

[jmaier]

1. Nope

Folks such as these are rather common and I've worked with literally hundreds over my professional career. I don't have a ready answer...wish I did.

[Richardo]

2. One in particular - former colleague with a MPA from Penn

Still sends me all the RW emails and quotes Limbaugh. I don't get it. Nice guy too.

[ewagner]

3. Brilliant Engineer/Hard-Core Repub

I know a few of those. In two cases, (good friends otherwise) these guys simply didn't pay attention to politics....they are very well-paid and have large investment portfolios and believe that Bush* is good for their portfolios so he MUST be good for the US in general.

They have few, if any core beliefs as far as politics are concerned but the Repub philosophy generally mirrors their professional training....e.g. 1+1 = 2 and that is all there is to it....it's either black or white there is no nuance to math and engineering.

It's still hard to maintain the friendship....

[bunny planet]

4. My husbands family is riddled with these types. Really smart and they

vote for Bush. In one case, they are wealthy and are voting their pocketbooks (the hell with everyone else, as long as I get mine) and in the other case they are pro=Israel and think that Bush's Middle East policies are strong on defense...... for Israel.

[Ravenseye]

5. No you're not alone.

The morons are easy to just ignore. It's the smart ones that are the hardest to deal with.

I think the key is to look at them as optimists. A person who thinks BBV is fine, and paper trails are waste are people who think that there is no way fraud can be commited, because either people wouldn't do that, it's impossible, or so on. There's an aspect of trust there. An aspect of optimism.

Same thing with other Republican ideas. Private versus Public. We dont' need to be taxed and have the federal government provide hot lunches for poor people, because if we reduce their taxes, people will give money on their own and it'll cost less money because the government won't be doing it, and we'll feed more people. That's optimism.

The funny thing is that Republicans see things that they are realists and liberals are optimists. In reality BOTH are optimists and NEITHER are realists.

How do you convince someone wearing rose colored glasses than somethign isn't rose colored. How do you take those glasses off? I'm still working on that one.

[iamjoy]

6. A Different Worldview

It doesn't make them a moron, I know lots of intelligent Republicans.

Perhaps your friend feels that the idea that some one would use a computer to steal an election is just paranoid conspiracy stuff. That's not necessarily a matter of intelligence, just trust. Or maybe he is very cynical - the paper trail is a false sense of security because one could find a way to tamper with that as well.

If they are truly intelligent, you really have to hold your temper and cool and not freak out (hard to do when someone you think well of drops a bomb on you). Articulate your case well.
Show respect and don't be afraid to acknowledge some of their points, "I hadn't thought of that way. I still believe..." - they will be far more likely to acknowledge your point if they feel you have truly listened to them. In the end, if they still don't budge, just say, "Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this."

When we assume some one with a different opinion is a moron, or worse, articulate that, we lower the level of debate in this country to where ideas cannot be openly discussed. It is one thing to blow off steam with fellow liberals, but otherwise nothing is gained by name calling. We need to remember this when talking with people who have different views.

[orwell]

7. A Key

A key to working with anyone, no matter what the belief structure is to find something you agree on and build from that.

For example, most cons deplore the rising budget deficits. Instead of trying to bring this guy around on BBV, just casually mention that you are worried about the mounting budget deficits - that said deficits amount to uncollected future taxes.

Don't affix blame. Don't blame it on any party. Just mention that you think it is a problem.

Or mention that you are worried about the reality of white collar jobs moving offshore. There are many things that Dems and Repubs can agree on. The problem is most just want to fight.

That is not by accident. In fact, I would posit that it is by design. The state exists for conflict. It is its lifeblood, its reason for being. This is the dirty little secret that nobody mentions.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. Immoral people

They're well aware of the path the world is taking, and believe they'll be one of the 7,000.

[libertypirate]

9. I take them down the money road...

How much should it cost to vote?

A piece of paper would cost a fraction of these computers.

I don't want to have to trust the system that counts the votes, that is irresponsible. I don't trust the republicans and you don't trust the democrats so why do we have an expensive system to count votes that we can only trust and not actually audit the results?

The point is to give him a reference and question to chew on.

Winning the war against the Neocons is not about being right or making the right points it's all about asking the correct questions.

[Warpy]

10. When I worked at MIT, I learned

that there are brilliant people in this world whose focus is so very narrow that they need someone else to supply them with the opinions and skills they need to get along in polite company.

They were a great deal of fun to listen to when they were talking about their fields of study, but once one strayed outside it, they turned into parrots. Some were left, some were right, all were lost and doing simple recitation. This applied to things outside politics, too.

Recognize that some people are just very limited when it comes to dealing with the complexity of life and that there are some subjects you will simply need to avoid if you're going to get any benefit from their expertise.

[ewagner]

11. You did a better job

of explaining some of them than I did.....

[leveymg]

12. Then there are the intelligent Birchers - the really far-right folks who .

totally distrust the federal government, viewed Soviet Communism as the creation of corrupt monopoly capitalists, and believe that 2-party politics is basically a conspiracy to fleece the American people of their last remaining dime and ounce of blood.

My friend calls himself a Libertarian, but I know that his viewpoints have their origins in the John Birch Society - an interesting quasi-fightwing group started in the late 1940s. The Birchers were repressed after they complained publicly that the Rockefellers and Harriman had funded the Soviet Communist Party.

The Birchers said other quirky things about how Ike had been "brainwashed" by the Dulles Brothers to hijack the Republican Party in order to create a permanent Cold War emergency. The United States and the Soviet Union, according to the John Birch Society, both operated to feed the world's wealth to a small cell of international bankers. The Birchers hated both Wall Street and Stalin.

My good friend is a Bircher, but doesn't really know it. He's convinced that 9/11 was designed to bring back the Cold War state of emergency, and that America is becoming a police state. It's amazing who we often reach totally opposite conclusions from such similar assumptions - but it a great deal of fun talking to him, and we've learned a lot from each other.
:bounce:

[RayOfHope]

13. My dad is one

hence my username.

I asked him a long time ago that we not discuss politics. We keep our conversations to gardening, birdwatching, and fixing up houses. When conversations turn to politics, I just leave the room. He is the type who won't change his mind, but even if he did, he would NEVER admit it.