Ask the Police: Part III

[SouthernDem2004]

Greetings,

I started a couple of these threads a months ago and found them to be interesting. It is not often you can ask the Police a question and get a honest answer. Please feel free to ask away.

The reason I started another thread is that there is someone posting on DU that is giving out bad information. They are making false claims from their resume to actual case law. I find this to be dangerous. When you have contact with the Police or court system you should be informed and have the correct information.

Let me say this about Miranda warnings, They are only required for custodial interrogations. They are actually not read that often. It is mainly done for felonies and DUIs. Most of the time they are not read.

Also, the Police are not required to tell you what you are being charged with at the actual time of arrest. I personally do not tell them until they are handcuffed. It is a safety issue. No point in getting someone agitated until they are secured.

So, if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

FYI: I do not respond to personal attacks or profanity. I believe in civil discourse. I try to treat people the way they treat me. I know alot of people do not like the Police. The Police write citations and arrest people, tends to make people unhappy.


Peace

[Coexist]

1. I have heard that police officers gave out bad information

at protests - misstating laws to make protesters think that they were not allowed where they were.

Also, have you ever been instructed to do anything like that to avert a riot (or whatever).

[SouthernDem2004]

9. Your first statement is probably correct.

They could have given false info by mistake or on purpose. Most likely they did it on purpose.

I have never personal been instructed to do so. There are so many obscure laws on the books that you can usually find a reason to move people.

[Coexist]

16. thanks for the answer.

[AX10]

2. So you are a cop then?

[SouthernDem2004]

11. Yes and have been for a number of years.

[anarchy1999]

134. Maybe you know my uncle or have heard of him. He is a bondsman now

in Southern California. Thanks for all you do. I hope you are not any part of the corruption that took my uncle out.

[bpilgrim]

3. why do police TASER NON-VIOLENT women, children, sick and old folks?

even PREGNANT WOMEN?

but more importantly, HOW do we get them do stop this practice

tia

peace

(on edit: TASERS ARCHIVE

links to articles here...
http://www.infowars.com/subject_archives/ps/tasers_arch...

Taser Death in Lake City

Officer Quits Over Use Of Taser on Suspect

March 10, 2005 Man Tasered In Hospital Bed, Forced To Give Urine Sample

Officer Shoots Student With Taser Gun

Taser International Propaganda: Zogby Poll Shows Three-in-Four Americans Support Use of TASER(TM) Devices

Cop accidentally stuns fellow officer with Taser

Sanford man dies when tasered by police

Mother whose teenage son was shocked 16 times by police plans to sue

Police defend use of Taser on girl, 13

Police use Taser on man at eatery

Police say using Taser on cat appropriate

Five Officers Face Disciplinary Charges In Stun Gun Case

Taser moratorium sought in Texas

Man with heart ailment dies after being shocked with Taser

County cops address Taser threat

Police fear civilian taser popularity

Tased and confused: Lifesaver, lethal weapon, aid for crowd control, tool of torture?

Ohio county halts Taser use after death

Taser gun safety is questioned as 85 die

Man begs police not to use stun gun on him during raid

Police Taser and Target the Disabled

Taser announces $675K in stun gun orders

Man Dies After Being Shot With Taser

Man who died after Taser stun was facing trial

Suspect hit by Taser on 9 occasions; 41-year-old died 4 hours after his arrest at art museum

Are Tasers too risky for police officers to use?

Taser to Increase Stun Gun's Power: NY Times

Four teens Tasered in scuffle with Miami-area cops

Is the Taser a safer alternative for a police firearm, or is it a ethal weapon?

Naked Jogger Tasered, Arrested By Arkansas Police

Heart expert warns about using Tasers

Fans Zapped by Tasers at Football Game

Eugene police set aside plans for Tasers

Pacifica Taser Gun Death Under Investigation

Jarring death rate fuels flap over police, Tasers

Jarring death rate fuels flap over police, Tasers

Teen dies after being shot with Taser gun by Collier County Deputies

Officer's injury tied to Taser

Taser, Inc. Gets Research Contract From DoD

Miami Police Use Taser To Subdue Wheelchair-Bound Man

Fla. Officer Uses Stun Gun on 12- Year-Old

Tempe OKs Taser guns for 9 schools

Man Dies After Police Use Taser Gun On Him

Cameras Roll As Police Use Taser Gun To Subdue Suspect

Maker Defends Taser, Stun-Gun in the Sights of Scandal

Homeland Security nominee Kerik sat on board of stun-gun maker

5 of 7 hit with Tasers were not violent

Dead Inmate was Tasered twice

Police are too Quick to Grab for Taser's Power, Say Critics

Warning on Police Use of Stun Guns After 74 Die

Taser on children OK, police say

School Official Asks Police to Stop Tasers

Cops Taser 14-Year-Old Who Wouldn't Drop Game Boy

Police review policy after Tasers used on kids

Police used Taser gun to subdue 6-year-old student wielding piece of glass

Police State Targets, Tasers, Arrests and Jails Elementary School Children

FAA OKs Tasers on Commercial Flights

November 05, 2004] Man Dies After Police Use Stun Gun on Him

Police defend current weapons

Police Accused Of Firing Taser At Pregnant Bride

ShockRounds(TM) and Electric Shock Weapons in Law Enforcement

Pentagon Looks to Directed-Energy Weapons

Officer's Taser is used on girl, 9

Man Accuses Police of Brutality with Tasers

The Pentagon's Secret Scream

links to articles here...
http://www.infowars.com/subject_archives/ps/tasers_arch...

[SouthernDem2004]

12. When people refuse to comply with a lawful order force is then used.

There are numerous cases of misuse. The training and concept of stun weapons needs to be refined. There is no simple answer of how to correct the abuse. I am afraid it is going to take numerous Officers losing lawsuits before changes occur.

[bpilgrim]

14. lawsuits

i agree

thank you

peace

[AX10]

44. I hope that a lot of lawsuits are brought up and someone with..

a ton of money would consider taking the case. In America, the only way to punish wrong doers is to "hit them in their wallet". When cops use tazer guns on non violent offenders, minors, and senior citizens, those cops need to have their bank accounts cleaned out and the police fired.

[screembloodymurder]

211. If I'm questioned and I refuse to give a statement

can I be tasered for not cooperating? My heart would not recover from a stun gun so I guess I'd better fess up to whatever crime they think I committed. Better to be in prison than dead.

[SouthernDem2004]

218. Nope, can not stun someone for not giving a statement.

You have to physically cooperate but thats it.

[name not needed]

4. Would you explain why

so many police officers feel the need to use excessive force to get a suspect to comply?

[SouthernDem2004]

15. Depends on what you mean by excessive force.

Tasers are not excessive force when used properly. What some people may consider excessive is not what Police consider excessive. The best way to take a resistive person into custody is to incapacitate them. Stun weapons do this. Pain compliance with tools such as OC (pepper spray) are hit and miss. Sometimes they work and sometimes they do not. Basicly, damned if ya do, damned if ya don't.

[cestpaspossible]

98. some people may consider excessive is not what Police consider excessive.

uh... yeah, you can say that again.

[SouthernDem2004]

99. Odd, Police considered that excessive. A clip from 1991. nice...

[cestpaspossible]

102. They did? They considered it excessive? Is that why Stacey Koon said

"This is great! They got it on tape! Now we'll have a live, in-the-field film to show police recruits. It can be a real life example of how to use escalating force properly."
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/k...


A friend of mine actually shared a cell with Koon for awhile. No, Koon did not believe he used excessive force. As you correctly point out, some disagree.

[Warpy]

5. I view contact with the police on the same level as going to the dentist

and I'd never go out of my way to be rude to a dentist or other professional, even if I might be scared out of my wits, in pain, or in any other crisis that required their services.

It also helps that I'm clean and sober.

Seriously, thanks for those thoughts on Miranda. We get too used to the shows people Mirandized for broken tail lights and there's a lot of misunderstanding out there. The point about not informing someone of charges until they're restrained is well taken, too.

[sweetheart]

6. How do you see medical marijuana

If someone uses medical marijuana in their home for pain, are you
break in, shake them down and arrest them? Would you refuse to act on
such things, because of your conscience and your heart?

[SouthernDem2004]

21. Well...

We can not enter someones house without Probable Cause in the first place.

Police have the discreation to arrest on misdemeanors with the exception of domestic violence. In most cases if it is a small amount I just destroy it in their prescence be it for medical or recreational purposes.

You maybe surprised to know that most Officers support legalizing marijuana, atleast all the ones I know. These are Republicans too. We actually talk about it all the time. If I had my way I would legalize marijuana and ban alcohol.

[yebrent]

23. ya don't say?

Check out my thread about the Supreme Court decision today and how the Democrats need to use this issue in 2006.

[sweetheart]

28. cool.

Thanks for that.

[TX-RAT]

126. ban alcohol?

That alone would solve about 65% of all domestics.

[ProfessorGAC]

185. Oh Yeah. Banning Alcohol Worked So Well The First Time

Sheesh! It didn't stop domestic violence before, did it? People will get alcohol no matter the ban. Banning it solves nothing. Education and treatment for abusers is the answer, not bans.
The Professor

[TX-RAT]

192. It didn't stop domestic violence before, did it?

Don't know, wasn't around during Prohibition, was you? First let me say i don't think you could ever successfully ban alcohol, the people won't allow it.
One thing of interest. In TX we have many dry counties ( no alcohol sales ) I've never compared the domestic violence rate of dry counties, to wet counties, but i would go out on a limb, and say the wet counties have a higher number of cases. I'll also go out on a limb and say, 75 to 80 percent of all domestics I've responded to involved alcohol, either by one party or both.
I'm in no way suggesting we should ban alcohol, ( been known to drink a little Crown Royal myself) I'm just saying, if we did successfully ban it, that would be one of the results. Along with the thousands of lives it would save in alcohol related traffic accidents.

[Catherine Vincent]

7. Have you ever started a thread about any other topic besides the Police?

[SouthernDem2004]

22. Lol, yes... One I had questions about Canada, one questions about the EU

and a couple others about politics.

[brokensymmetry]

8. A really off-the-wall question

I regard Peak Oil as a likely future problem; if it does occur, it would certainly affect law enforcement and would (in my opinion) increase the crime rate and also the likelihood of civil unrest. This would happen at the same time that city budgets would be under a lot of pressure.

So...are departments even considering the possibility yet? Should they be?

[SouthernDem2004]

24. I do not consider Peak Oil or subscribe to it.

Yes, oil will run out at some point but some of the projections saying it will start in 07 or 08 seem a little off.

I have never heard Peak Oil mentioned anywhere but here. Aside from Police websites and some news sites I do not read anything else. This is the only non-Police forum I read.

[misanthrope]

39. Dude...

"I have never heard Peak Oil mentioned anywhere but here. Aside from Police websites and some news sites I do not read anything else. This is the only non-Police forum I read."

You really need to broaden your horizons. Peak Oil has been discussed in several other places closer to the mainstream than this.

Ever heard of Rolling Stone magazine?

[SouthernDem2004]

42. Don't read it. I admit I am uneducated on the subject.

[brokensymmetry]

177. With all due respect...

I understand that the demands on a law enforcement officer are many - just keeping up with the law must surely take a lot of time. That being said, you really might wish to take a look at the subject. It's true that some people make extraordinary claims...but the implications for crime and instability are, in my opinion, significant.

That being said, thank you for offering your insights.

[yebrent]

10. I'll start with a few hopefully easy ones.

In your opinion:

Do good looking woman get more lenience from police officers for minor offenses like traffic violations? Does crying help them?

Does it help to know a police officer in the precinct of the officer who is arresting you? (I've heard of more than one person getting out of a DUI because their (brother, mother, father, etc.) was an officer or clerk at said precinct.)

How easy is it to frame an individual? Is is more common than the public thinks? I ask this because I live in Oakland, and there was a huge scandal here about the "Oakland Riders" who regularly framed suspects by planting evidence. This also was an issue in Los Angeles and is generally a hot topic in California.

How much trouble are shows like CSI causing in the attempts to convict people? I have heard that jurors are starting to hold up evidence collecting and DNA testing time frames to that they see in TV shows.

Do we have any effective rights for our cars not to be searched if pulled over for a traffic violation? I've heard that if you have the wrong sticker on your car (Grateful Dead, Phish, etc.) you can be searched for probably cause based on the sticker. If you refuse, then they just bring in the dogs.

How seriously do most officers take marijuana offenses?

Thanks for this wonderful service. I will be awaiting your reply.

[SouthernDem2004]

30. Lets see:

1) All Police are different. For me a women flirting or crying is greatly increases the chance they will get a ticket. I know to many women that laugh about conning male Police out of writing tickets. Not me....

2) Can knowing someone get you out of a DUI? I am sure it can at certain departments. Up until the last 10 years or so it would have worked at my Department. I personally keep copies of my arrests of people that name drop and check the computers routinely to make sure they still are in system. Call me paranoid but I hate the good old boy system.

3) Easy to frame someone? Sure it would be. It would be extremely easy.

4) CSI? The show is horrible, my opinion. Know idea if it has any effect on courts. You would have to ask an attorney that one.

5) Vehicle searches: You always have the right to refuse. A sticker is not PC. The odor of marijuana is PC. So is contraband in plain sight. They can also do a "wing span search." They have the right to search the area you were sitting and any area within arms reach from that point. This is to look for secreted weapons on contraband.

The Police can and most likely and will call for a K-9 if you refuse and if one is available. Nothing you can do about that.

6) Marijuana: The seriousness varies with Officers. Rookie Officers tend to arrest anyone and everyone to get that drug arrest. They eventually grow out of it. The problem with even minor marijuana arrest is that in my state it leads to a mandatory driver's license suspension. Little harsh in my opinion. I think you will find that experienced Officers really find it annoying.

[cestpaspossible]

88. yeah, the odor of marijuana is probable cause but

if the officer lies and says he smelled marijuana even if he didn't, and finds marijuana in a subsequent search, his illegal search will no doubt be upheld in court. So bottom line, if you have pot in your car, the cop can search, if he's willing to lie in court.

Basically all these 'rules' supposedly guiding cops conduct are total bullshit because when it gets to court and a cop says one thing and a citizen says something else, the cop will be believed every time.

[Name removed]

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[Up2Late]

17. I don't know if you would know this one, but I live in Cobb County, GA

And in Cobb County (I'm going to call it CC from now on), we have the CC Police, CC Sheriff (and Deputies), and CC Marshal(s), and Georgia State Police, Plus City Police, Like the Marietta Police.

Isn't some of that redundant, don't Marshals and Sheriffs usually do the same thing? And if I was near Marietta, but not sure if I was within the Marietta City limits, who would I call to report a crime, Say my car was broken into?

[SouthernDem2004]

31. I have no idea.

I am not even sure what a CC Marshal is.

[TX-RAT]

127. Maybe i can help.

(don't Marshals and Sheriffs usually do the same thing?)
Usually County Marshall's are responsible for the service of court ordered civil papers, such as dispossesory warrants ( evictions ). In TX, thats usually handled by Constables.

(And if I was near Marietta, but not sure if I was within the Marietta City limits, who would I call to report a crime, Say my car was broken into? ) If unsure call 911 and they will route you to the proper service, I hesitate to recommend that for a non emergency call, but if your not sure call them.
In the city call the PD
In the county call the SO.

[Up2Late]

130. See how confusing this is, we have Cobb County Police too.

I think they handle County Crimes.

[MazeRat7]

20. Has a persons "circumstances" ever made you wish for a different option ?

By that I am asking an option other than arrest. Has there ever been a case where you wished you didnt have to enforce the letter of the law (arrest) and wished for some other resolution ?

MZr7

[SouthernDem2004]

33. Definitely...

For example, my state has mandatory arrest for suspended driver's license. Problem is what if it is a mother and her small children? We should have options.

The truth is we usually can find another resolution. If people work with us we try and work with them.

[MazeRat7]

77. If you "took it upon yourself" to find a "different" resolution....

Would it seriously jeopardize your job/career ? I guess I am trying to understand how much latitude a patrol officer has when deciding to make an arrest.

Do you have any discretion or is it strictly by county/city policy ? You have to do X in response to Y, no expections of any kind ?

MZr7

[SouthernDem2004]

96. We have discreation on misdemeanors except for Domestic Violence.

Most states Domestic laws have guidelines that often require us to make arrest. Suspended licenses is another mandatory arrest in my state. Domestics and DUS are really the only mandatory misdemeanor arrest. Felonies are a whole other ball game.

We have alot of latitude on misdemeanors but then again our job is to enforce laws. I average probably about 6-10 arrests per week. Most people arrested need to be arrested. Sometimes we really have no choice.

[MazeRat7]

104. Thanks.. and BTW.. I'm the one with the DU sticker on his truck...

Just in case we ever meet "on the road".. *grin.

MZr7

[Floogeldy]

27. Would you please not arrest anybody for possessing 1 oz. or less of pot?

[SouthernDem2004]

34. It depends, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Depends on the case.

[Name removed]

161. Deleted message

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[VOX]

36. Have you ever been in a circumstance where you've had to use deadly force?

If so, can you describe it insofar as is possible?

Thanks.

[SouthernDem2004]

38. Sorry but I will not talk about that. I have done what is necessary to

save my life. That is one area I do not talk about.

Peace

[annabanana]

37. Hi SouthernDem..

Your other 2 threads were interesting and informative. If I remember correctly, you have a pretty thick skin.. It looks like you're gonna need it!

[SouthernDem2004]

46. Greetings and thank you. /nt

[KansDem]

43. I have a question about tasers and dogs...

Today, I saw a video of a woman being tasered because she refused to comply to an order. I heard her scream repeatedly as if in a great amount of pain. While she was screaming, the police officer was ordering her to assume a particular position so she could be handcuffed. If I remember correctly, she was on the ground (although out of view of the video camera in the patrol car), and the officer was commanding her to lay on her stomach and with her hands behind her back. If someone is in pain, as it sounded this woman was, how can she be expected to assume a particular position which may be even more painful?

The same thing with dogs. Several years ago I saw a video of a police officer and dog chasing a suspect. The two caught up with the suspect in dead-end alley, and to dog cornered the suspect and began growing, snarling, and snapping at the man. I believe the dog even bit at the man's clothing. If I remember correctly, there was some controversy about police officers allowing their dogs to bite a suspect, as a kind of reward. Anyway, the suspect was being told to lie down and assume the required position for arrest while the dog was snarling and biting at him.

So what's with these requests? In the first example, I know that if I'm injured or in pain (that I assume a taser brings), I'm going to lie in the most natural position to alleviate that pain: the fetal position, contrary to the officer's request to assume an unnatural position as lying face down with my hands behind my back. How do I reconcile the need to relieve that pain through some intuitive position with lying still in an unnatural position at the request of a police officer. If I opt to reduce my pain in the fetal position, I risked being tasered again...

And in the second example, I am expected to lie down on the ground with a snarling, biting dog just a few inches from me? When confronted by a vicious dog, my instinct is to stand and position myself in a way that I might best defend and fight back, not "lie down." Yet, if I don't lie down, the dog is allowed to terrorize me further as a punishment for not complying...

So it seems to me suspects are put into situations involving great amounts of terror and pain and, when reacting with the natural responses to those situations, ordered to assume unnatural positions by police officers that only increase that terror and pain. When the suspects, in their own biological self interest for survival fail to comply, the terror and pain is increased.

Do police officers ever discuss this in classes or workshops?

[SouthernDem2004]

45. Reply:

I have be Tasered myself. Hurts, hurts alot but only during the actual shock itself. I saw the video. The first shock was fine. I personally think the second shock came to quickly. The hurry to apply a second shock is often related to the concern that the suspect may pull out the contacts.

I have personally witnessed numerous K-9 apprehensions. Once the dog takes hold he is trained not to let go. He is also trained to continue biting and pulling if the suspect continues to move.

I do not think it is discussed they way you are asking. We are all aware that it takes people a few seconds to understand commands when they are in pain. The fact that they do including the stunned women show that the methods work. LE is not pretty sometimes.

[KansDem]

47. Thanks!...

I always like getting straight answers from those who know, and not the "media discussions and reporting" that tend to blur the essence of an argument/observation.

[Name removed]

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[SouthernDem2004]

49. Best you can do? An old photo from the 60s? That dog is long dead. lol

[Name removed]

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[SouthernDem2004]

58. How is that? Anyone mention race yet other then you? I explained how

K-9s are used. Sorry if you do not like facts. Do you actually have a question or point?

[AX10]

61. Would you consider that the woman may have been in shock...

or pain from the first taser hit so she was too nervous to react in such a short amount of time?

[SouthernDem2004]

63. Yes, that is most likely the case. I disagree with the second shock.

They should have waited but it is hard to judge when I was not on scene. It is easy to sit back and watch a video and make judgements.

[AX10]

70. Ms. Goodwin was charged with non violent resisting of arrest.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Goodwin was charged with driving on a suspended license and resisting arrest without violence. She was treated at Bethesda Memorial Hospital after complaining that her arm was numb, according to the report, and then transferred to jail"

[hfojvt]

160. your instinct is wrong

If you stand and fight back, you are challenging the dog. Since the dog is a trained fighter, it is likely he will attack. If you lie down, you are surrendering. Once you have surrendered, an animal will usually let you be (although, because of its training, a police dog is not a normal animal). That is why "playing dead" often works in an animal attack. As Larry Niven writes, people seem to have lost their instinct for surrender and for accepting surrender. So our conflicts result in far too many homicides.

[MojoXN]

51. How long does it take before...

the US verusus THEM attitide starts to set in? I'd imagine that it's from day one. Also, do most police officers believe the government propaganda regarding illegal drugs? Do you feel that incarceration is ever in a drug offender's "best interest"? In general, do you feel that present-day punishments fit their respective crimes? Do you support the death penalty? If so, in your opinion, should it apply to child molesters? OK, that's all. I'll leave some for everyone else.

MojoXN

[SouthernDem2004]

56. Lets see...

1) Us v. Them: The us includes citizens. The them are the anti-police types. There are not really that many "thems" compared to "us." Heck, I have never liked the "thems" even before I was sworn in.

2) What propaganda are you refering to? Drugs are harmful. I am not referring to marijuana though. I mean coke, meth, heroin and the like.

3) Sometimes incarcerating drug offenders is in the publics best interest. Sometimes it is in the suspects interest, sometimes it is not. Not trying to dodge the question.... It just varies from case to case. The problem is the lack of substance abuse treatment in and out of prisons.

4) Some punishments fit the crimes and some do not. I am against mandatory sentencing and three strike laws. Judges should be able to consider all of the facts and circumstances before sentencing.

5) Yes, I support the death penalty.

6) No, I do not support it for child molesters. However, I support them getting life without parole.

[MojoXN]

65. Excellent answers all...

To answer your question, the propaganda that I was referring to are the deliberately misleading stories about drugs that are funded and disseminated by the ONDCP. E.G. The "ecstacy brain images" hoax or the "smoke crack once and you're automatically addicted" or the ever-popular marijuana is bad for this reason:

1930's-makes you kill and rape, and go insane

1950's-use marijuana, and you'll go straight to heroin

1960's-pot makes you grow breasts, and decreases your sperm count

you get the idea. To rephrase my original inquiry, "Do you think that most police officers accept the government's word at face value regarding drugs, tht is to say, they uncritically examine the situation?"

MojoXN

[SouthernDem2004]

67. Well...

Ecstacy does damage the brain and can kill. It does happen.

Crack addiction is not like others from what I have seen. No you are not addicted the first time.

Marijuana is fairly harmless. Its as much of a gateway drug as alcohol.

Police are around drugs and addicts almost constantly. We are aware of what is propaganda from both sides.

[maveric]

52. What are your feelings on marijuanna? Do you take people in for it?

What are the laws like in your state?

[SouthernDem2004]

60. I am for legalizing but do arrest and charge.

It really depends on the circumstances. Small amounts I usually just destroy in the suspects prescence. It really depends on alot of factors including the suspects attitude.

Sorry, but I will not say where I work. Not even what state.

[Walt Starr]

53. No real question,

just a thank you for your service.

[killbotfactory]

54. What would motivate a policeman to give a ticket for going...

Four miles over the speed limit?

[SouthernDem2004]

62. Citizen's complaints about speeding in the area, wanting to stop

the vehicle to see who is inside, the Traffic Officer is worthless and they keep getting on him for not working so he goes out and just starts stroking tickets for every little thing. Could be any number of reasons.

Go to court on that ticket! The margin of error for a vehicles speedometer is +/- 3 mph. A judge will probably toss the ticket. If your state allows jury trials even better.

[killbotfactory]

71. Thanks

Too late, though. I got fined 80 bucks...

I only learned about the trial by jury option when one of my friends used it to make them drop a fine for not using their blinkers.

[The Magistrate]

55. This Is Much Appreciated, Sir

My own interactions with police have been mixed, but it is definitely necessary work....

[Robb]

57. I echo these sentiments

...and find myself delighted to see a badge of sorts on The Magistrate's collar!

Kudos, sir. Clearly I need to be paying better attention.

[newportdadde]

59. Have you ever seen another officer take cash monies

found during a drug bust or other arrest? If so were they caught?

[SouthernDem2004]

66. No, I would have narced them out myself. In my opinion an Officer

that breaks the law is a traitor. I think sentences for former Officers charged with crimes should be doubled.

I am talking about serious crimes. Not minor traffic offenses.

[iconoclastic cat]

64. Does being an MP prepare you to be a police officer in a large urban area?

I was also wondering if former MPs you might know have made that move after their tour is finished.

[SouthernDem2004]

69. We have several former MPs and SPs at my department...

Hmmm, They do well. They tend to be a little harder to train in the beginning because we do not have near the powers they had on Federal property. They seem to make the transition well though. Police Departments have a large number of ex-military so they fit in easily.

Policing in a large urban area is different from military policing. I would not worry about being prepared for it. The Department that hires the MP will train him so he should not have any problems. If you are interested in becoming a Police Officer why not give it a try. Its not like the military, if you do not like it you can always quit.

[iconoclastic cat]

72. Thanks! Someone else actually asked my to ask this.

I'm already in civil service: I'm an inner-city public school teacher.

[UdoKier]

68. You believe in civil discourse...

with the condition that you are the lecturer and all the little DUers are supposed to bow to your wisdom.

Do you know how condescending these threads you post come across? It really fits nicely with the image a lot of people have of cops as control freaks.

I don't always agree with those who accuse every cop of brutality, but I also think there are a significant number of cops on the streets who are control freaks and megalomaniacs.

Maybe if you titled your threads "Hi, I'm a cop, let's talk" and actually listened a bit more to what people are saying it would be more constructive. You've set up the thread like you're the only one who's doing the schooling.

I'd wager you still have a few things to learn, (as do the rest of us).

[SouthernDem2004]

73. I will actually respond:

First, I know I have things to learn. Never said I did not.

It should be obvious why I state conditions on my responding. The reason I mention it in the post is so that people will know why I ignore some posts.

Sorry if you feel it is condescending, that was not my intent. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.


Peace

[UdoKier]

74. LOL

"I will actually respond:"

How magnanimous! I wasn't talking about ignoring posts. You're certainly entitled to ignore profane or rude posts.

But the haughty attitude you form the thread with is pretty off-putting (and probably that much more likely to attract the very type of posters you DON'T want)

But it's your thread. It's you're prerogative to keep it a humility-free zone on your part.

[SouthernDem2004]

75. Yep, I said I would not respond to personal attacks but decided to in

your case. I am sorry you are so sensative. Good luck with that.


Peace

[UdoKier]

76. You regard being called on your own self-importance as a "personal attack"

And *I'm* the sensitive one?

[cestpaspossible]

118. Actually, personal attacks are not allowed on DU

if you see what you believe is a personal attack, you should hit the 'Alert' link.

Keep in mind however, that if someone has criticized the content of your posts, rather than attacking you personally, the mods won't do anything about it.

[SouthernDem2004]

121. I do not alert on ppl.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

149. That made no sense.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SouthernDem2004]

152. Yawn, I grow weary of your baiting. Your post make your intentions

obvious. I will no longer respond. Good luck.


Peace

[Name removed]

153. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Protagoras]

78. Thank you Southerndem

you're posts here are calm, reasoned, and professional. Many of us greatly appreciate it.

[Ms. Clio]

79. Rather strange and revealing that you consistently capitalize "Police"

but you don't capitalize "court" or "law."

Very odd.

[SouthernDem2004]

82. Yep, one of my quirks. I also capitalize Democrat, Officer and a few

other non-proper nouns. The words "court" and "law" are to generic.

[Ms. Clio]

109. It is proper to capitalize "Democrat"

when referring to a member of the Democratic Party. That is not a "quirk."

Perhaps you should also try using and capitalizing the word "Citizen" instead of just the generic "people."

[SouthernDem2004]

122. Actually the word Democrat is just a normal noun but I see what you

are saying which is why I capitalize it. The thing is alot of Democrats do not consider themselves members of the Party. See the political discussion area.

[Zorbuddha]

154. There is a distinction between Democrat and democrat.

Just as there is a distinction between Nazi and nazi, Conservative and conservative.

Peacekeepers and peacemakers are synonymous, I reckon. Feel free to capitalize those, too.

[spacelady]

80. Have you always worked as a police officer or did you have other jobs

previously? If other, what were they & what drew you to this profession?

[SouthernDem2004]

83. Had a desk job and did the Army thing for a while. Still in the Guard..

Become the Police with the Protecting and Serving intent. Saw it as a way to help my community.

[spacelady]

86. thanks for reply, that should be the attitude, it's appreciated. n/t

[anarchy1999]

141. So, I can't find where anyone has asked you the QUESTION? How do

you feel about this administration lying this nation into war?

How do you feel about depleted uranium?

How do you feel about all our vets being killed and maimed for lies?

I really look forward to your response.

[SouthernDem2004]

165. Well...

1) Against going in the first place.

2) I support DU... Heck, the stuff was inches away from my head for years...

3) What a loaded question, lol. Like I said I did not support the war in the first place.

[alittlelark]

81. Why do you think the police in GB get by with bobby sticks

and here in the USA we need guns?

[SouthernDem2004]

85. Some Police in GB are armed, some are not.

Why? Well there are more guns here. We also have more violent crime.

[Gusto md]

89. But....

Do Americans have more violent crime because you have more guns....?

[SouthernDem2004]

94. No, we have alot of other issues. Guns do not cause crime. Our

culture is just violent.

[alittlelark]

113. 'More violent crime'.... due to more guns or more violent people? n/t

[cestpaspossible]

84. Do you believe 'he followed procedure' to be an adequate defense

to any charges of use of excessive force, or should the officer divert from procedure if following procedure would result in an immoral act?

[SouthernDem2004]

87. You would have to be more specific about what an immoral act is...

SOP does not exempt Police from obeying laws. Morals tend to be subjective so you would have to be a little more specific on what you mean.

[cestpaspossible]

90. If you don't know what an immoral act is without me telling you,

perhaps you are in the wrong job.

[SouthernDem2004]

92. Um, some people consider homosexuality to be immoral. How do I know

what you consider immoral? How am I supposed to know what your morals are?????????????? A pedophile does not think molesting children is immoral. Your morals are based on your beliefs. I do not know you. I do not know your beliefs. You can not throw out such a broad word without explaination.

[cestpaspossible]

95. If you are not willing to make moral decisions for yourself, I can't force

you. I'm certainly not asking you to adopt my morals, I assumed you had your own ideas of what constitutes morality and immorality. I guess I was wrong.

I suppose if a person makes no moral judgements, it makes it a lot easier to give and obey orders without thinking.

[SouthernDem2004]

97. It would be wrong for me to force my morals on others as a Police Officer.

I have my own morals, certainly. However, it would be wrong of me to force my morals onto someone else just because I am in a position of authority. Isn't that what our President and his people are trying to do???

[cestpaspossible]

100. Seems you were so busy trying to avoid the question you forgot what it was

Here's the question again, you can duck it again if you want:

Do you believe 'he followed procedure' to be an adequate defense to any charges of use of excessive force, or should the officer divert from procedure if following procedure would result in an immoral act?

[SouthernDem2004]

103. No, I attempted to answer the question but requested clarification

on what you consider immoral. Thats when you started getting insulting.

Taking your question on face value of course he should "divert." Your question is phrased poorly. SOP does not allow for excessive force. Show me a policy that requires an Officer to use excessive force. Your question is not valid. No SOP allows for the use of excessive force. You are just baiting.

[cestpaspossible]

105. The question of whether following orders or procedure justifies evil

is an uncomfortable one, perhaps, but that does not mean it's not a valid question.


No SOP allows for the use of excessive force.

I see, it is a matter of definition. If you define acceptable force as that which is allowed by procedure, then your original answer is right - the officer doesn't have to make any moral judgements, and can just follow procedure.

However, procedure is defined by humans, and humans actually can make mistakes. Abdicating one's responsibility to decide for oneself whether one's actions are moral and using 'following orders' or procedure as a defense.... what does that remind me of?

[AlienGirl]

91. We need more intelligent, liberal cops!

How hard is it to pass the physical requirements to become a police officer?

Tucker

[SouthernDem2004]

93. Depends on the agency but it is about the same as military requirements.

Your local agency probably has the requirements on its website. If not just call their human resources department.

I think it was pretty easy. The run took out alot of people.

[AlienGirl]

107. Argh...

I know someone who should be a cop. The military rejected him for being overweight (though he is *strong* and fast and tall, he is about a hundred pounds over the military's max).

Tucker

[SouthernDem2004]

108. Hmmm, my agency does not have a weight limit. Some do and some don't.

As long as he could pass the physical test such as running and pushups he would be fine. He should call and check into it.

[AlienGirl]

110. I keep telling him to

He also has issues about taking an oath of office though.

Tucker

[SouthernDem2004]

111. Why is that if you dont mind me asking?

The oath generally is to uphold the laws of the city and state.

[AlienGirl]

114. I think he's afraid sometimes upholding the law might be unethical

For instance, arresting a sick person for smoking marijuana.

Tucker

[jayfish]

138. I Would Like To Chime In On This One.

The physical fitness exam is a strange bird. I have taken the MLEOTC test twice and passed both times. Once at the end of my academy training, when I was in superb shape, and once about five years later when I wasn't in such great shape. The second time I took the test I scored high enough to totally skip the run. Thing is, there were always people testing who had failed the test before and were on their second and third tries and they were always in better shape than me. The test is weighted and seemed to favor strength (push-ups, grip strength, ability to drag a 160lb a certain distance) over agility and conditioning (obstacle course, 1/2 mile run).

Jay

[SouthernDem2004]

159. Only 1/2 mile? Thats a little weak. We can not skip anything either.

They really should rething their testing.