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MSNBC: Judge rules "no fraud" in WA Gov. Election - (VIDEO)

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dzika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:08 PM
Original message
MSNBC: Judge rules "no fraud" in WA Gov. Election - (VIDEO)
June 6, 2005

Video - MSNBC: Judge rules "no fraud" in WA Gov. Election

A Washington judge rules against Republican Rossi in his challenge to take the 2004 election away from Democratic Governor Gregoire.



Video in Real Media format (1 minutes)

Video in Windows Media format (1 minutes)

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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good news nt
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. thanks for the quick post!
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. So, the Repugs appeal to where next? n/t
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. State Supreme Court
who is about 50-50 on whether they'll even hear the case, and VERY unlikely to overturn Bridges' decision. If the repukes can't win with their cherry-picked court, in front of a Republican judge, they sure as hell aren't going to win in front of the liberal-to-moderate state Supreme Court.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yea!
:woohoo:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Only problem is
that I have read that there was fraud. Even Andy Stephenson says there was.
I am for election reform...and getting dishonest people out of the election process even if they are Democrats.
We can't be hypocrites about this.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Interesting
Maybe they had the search and it wasn't ruled in her favor or something? :shrug:
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Based on the evidence presented.
There may well have been fraud but evidence for that fraud must be presented and the judge must feel it is substantial or can not rule. They did not make their case. Damn Activist Judges anyway :sarcasm:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Exactly.
They didn't make their case.
The burden was on them and they blew it.
However, I hope the ones committing it are replaced with fair and honest officials.
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AllegroRondo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Wouldnt they also have to prove
that any fraud would have changed the outcome of the election? They may have shown that mistakes were made, or even that fraud was comitted, but could not show who the fraudulent votes were cast for.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Exactly where did Christine Gregoire "commit fraud"?
>and getting dishonest people out of the election process even if they are Democrats.<

I'd like to know.

I live in Washington State. We have been subject to incessant bleating on behalf of Republicans who insist that 'felons and dead people' voted for Christine Gregoire, however, during the research, it was discovered that the vast majority of those ineligible to vote voted for DINO ROSSI. There were four ineligible felon votes for Christine Gregoire, for instance.

Nope, I'm not surrendering my state to the Pugs.

Julie
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. She didn't commit fraud
She ran a clean election.
I would have to find the post that Andy talked about who did commit the fraud--but they were Dems. He said that he investigated it himself.
But...as others have said, even if they held the election again, she would win.
I'm not taking away credit for her win.
The point is that not everything was hunky dory in King County.
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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. I called Andy on that
There was NO PROOF.

The judge found that the Republicans failed to prove that Gregoire received one illegal vote among those improperly cast. In fact, he said, the only "clear and convincing" evidence he saw was the statements of four felons who said they voted for Rossi and one who said he cast a ballot for a Libertarian candidate.

Bridges subtracted four votes from Rossi's total.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Okay then I stand corrected. Apologies. eom
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. No proof offered by GOP
Accusations without proof are rarely acceptable to the courts. The GOP made new accusations everyday. None could be supported with actual evidence.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Of course there was fraud, there is ALWAYS fraud
The republicans did use fraud in this election. I have a friend who used a e-machine and it wouldn't accept her democratic votes. This was fraud. Of course there was fraud. However, even with the republicans trying to steal this election too, there was not enough fraud to not call it legitimate.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. No evidence of organized fraud--fraud by individual voters--
--was ruled to be not relevant. The administrative screwups did not amount to an organized attempt at fraud. I am on several local lists where the issue of whether Dems should have gone along with a revote just to add legitimacy to the Gregoire governorship.


My reply--

For progressives to have gone along with a revote would have been a very dicey strategy, IMO. The only plus that I can see is that if we had been able to force Snohomish County to go with all mail-in optical scan voting, Gregoire would have gained several thousand votes. The machines there cheated in favor of Rossi either by accident or by design (and we aren't allowed to investigate to find out one way or another due to "proprietary" software).

http://www.votersunite.org/info/SnohomishElectionFraudI...
http://www.votersunite.org/info/lehtolawsuit.asp

But if we had not been able to enforce that option, a revote would most likely have been equally close, even though it would have been a different election (a separate problem, and another reason not to have a revote). The simple fact is that it is not possible with voting technologies now available to know who really got the most votes. The three counts were within 0.01% of each other, but the most accurate machines, optical scanners, have a 0.2% error rate. Hand counting with the double and triple checking that was done here lowers that to 0.1%, still not good enough. It's like trying to measure 1/32 inches with a ruler that only has 1/4" divisions.

If an election was like a sewing or woodworking project, you'd just get a ruler with small enough divisons or give up on the project. Not an option for an election, as we had to inagurate a governor in January. Since statistics and engineering couldn't solve our problem, we were stuck with doing things by the book legally, and that process said that Gregoire did indeed win.

One good thing that came out of the recounts is that they established that known vulnerabilities of the Diebold tabulation software were not exploited in our state. There are two points where data can be fiddled. One is the precinct tapes, the totals of which are correlated with the precinct sign-in sheets. This happened in Volusia County, Florida--Andy Stephenson saw original signed tapes thrown out--new ones were apparently printed with results more pleasing to the Bush family.

The Diebold software also has the capacity to add negative votes--in 2000 (Volusia again) minus 16,000 was added to Gore's tally which prompted his first concession. The tabulator can also be easily hacked, as recently demonstrated (See below note from the Rapid Response Network--some LTEs might be in order with a verdict tie-in.) But if either of those things had happened here, the three gubernatorial counts could not have been so close.

eridani

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/006422.html
http://www.leonfl.org/elect/SpecialReport.htm

In January of this year Leon County Supervisor of Elections Ion Sancho was contacted by representatives of Black Box Voting .org, a non-partisan elections advocacy group, to see if their computer experts could successfully circumvent the security of the Leon County voting system. Supervisor Sancho agreed to this proposal and in three separate attempts over a four month period, computer experts Dr. Herbert Thompson and Harri Hursti visited the Leon County Elections Office in their efforts to penetrate the county voting tabulation equipment and alter election data.

Granted the same access as an employee of our office, it was possible to enter the computer, alter election results, and exit the system without leaving any physical record of this action. It was also demonstrated that false information or instructions could be placed on a memory card (the device used to program the individual voting machines and record the voters votes) and create false results or election reports.

<snip>

Finally, the ultimate insurance that Leon Countys votes are counted correctly resides in the paper ballots of the voters themselves. If the public or election official has any question over the results of an election, a hand count of the optical paper ballot provides the truth. No internal manipulation of any computer or memory card can alter the votes on these paper ballots.

Based upon the data developed out of this exercise it is the opinion of the Leon County Supervisor of Elections that any effort to limit or remove the manual examination of paper ballots to confirm the correctness of election results is not in the public interest.



M. D-Wh. wrote:

Your view, J. My understanding of cases of this nature is that if coordinated fraud (rather than individual fraud) cannot be shown, there was no basis for a revote.

As for the appeal, the only basis is whether the judge's dismissal was an abuse of discretion--I'm digging out some cobwebs, but I believe that's true. Again, I will call on my practicing colleagues for further clarification.

No handwringing on this end, I'm afraid. As for the rest of the state, it depends on what questions voters were asked and who is polling.

Our state money can be spent on better things than pacifying (word intended) Rossi and his followers with a revote. Besides, the concept in itself defies logic. Think about it: another vote a year later than the original vote with a different population voting--what would make that more legitimate than the original vote if coordinated fraud cannot be shown?

My guess is that the GOP really wanted an aggrieved loser to run against Cantwell rather than a winning litigant to run against Gregoire. Look for Dino again in 2006.

M. D-Wh.

----- Original Message -----
From: J S

In my opinion, this is a short-term victory for Democrats, but a very dark day for progressives.

Centrists will say that Gregoire proved again that fence-straddling, issue-averse Republican-lite campaigns are winning campaigns for Democrats. More than half the state at this time still questions the legitimacy of our Governor, is mistrustful of the Democrats and sympathetic to Rossi. No matter how well Gregoire does in office (and she's been doing far better than we expected), she is doomed to being a one-term Governor. A re-vote would have at least saved the credibility of our Party with the people of WA State. This victory, if upheld by the Supremes, is a huge blow to the progressive programme and will be ultimately as bad for the Democratic Party in the State of Washington as a John Kerry win would have been disasterous for the Democratic Party nationally.

J.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Please stop posting this in every forum.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. define every forum?
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Go to the "Latest" page.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 01:20 PM by Vash the Stampede
Duplicate Topics and Spamming

Do not post duplicate topics that have already been posted. There are different levels of enforcement in different forums. For example, the Latest Breaking News forum has extremely strict rules against duplicate topics, but the General Discussion forum is much more lenient. Cross-posting of duplicates in different forums is occasionally permitted if there is a clear reason for doing so.

Do not spam the message board by posting the same message repeatedly, or by posting a flood of different messages.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. In his/her defense, it's not too often we get good news
and/or things go our way.

I say shout it from the rooftops!!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's fair enough, but still.
It's not like he/she is the only one posting on this. No need to be duping.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. dzika is our go to man when it comes to LBN video clips
I think the 3 some what similar forums appreciated his post...
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You're still missing the point.
Dupes aren't allowed for a reason. You don't want the board to get spammed with only one or two messages.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. I'm not a moderator but it seems ok to me, here's my reasoning
These will take up 3 spots on the front discussion page for 1/2 hr, then will drop off. Some people only look at 1 or 2 forums, and may miss this important happening by doing so, unless it is posted on each of the GD/GD elections/whatever 2004 elections areas. And this is an important happening for all 3 of these areas. So, I say this one is ok, though cross links to each would be nice for those of us whom want to keep up on all the talk and replies.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. LOL
I used to be a "dupe nanny", so I really know where your'e coming from :D

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Sparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. If you think this is a problem, just hit the alert button.
What a party pooper. Geeze.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. I suggest you address this to the moderators
via the Alert button, rather than posting it in the thread. Whether or not the various (different) posts on this same topic constitute duplicates is their decision.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Another link,
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002284...
Bridges: Overturning election would have meant "judicial egotism"

"An election such as this should not be overturned because one judge picks a number and applies a proportional deduction analysis," Bridges said. "To do so within the context of the facts of this case would constitute the ultimate act of judicial egotism and judicial activism"


yes, post in every forum. GD, WA, GD politics.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thank you for this excellent news!
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
31. Well, I had hoped this would become a boondoggle.
Only for the sake anyway of more judges waking up and taking the fraud from Election 2004 into the court room.

To get fair elections, one has to eliminate all the fraud--including hacked fraud. The ones by democrats and republicans both, where the corruption is reigning supreme.

But ESPECIALLY the far, far right fraud who owns and services the voting machines.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
32. To all of my Republican friends
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSUCK IT!!!
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