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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:07 PM
Original message
Neighbors spying on neighbors?
Spy vs. Spy
By Bill Piper, AlterNet. Posted May 18, 2005.
Proposed legislation would compel people to spy on their family members and neighbors, forcing all Americans to become foot soldiers in the war on drugs.
Neighbors spying on neighbors? Mothers forced to turn in their sons or daughters? These are images straight out of George Orwell's 1984, or a remote totalitarian state. We don't associate them with the land of the free and the home of the brave, but that doesn't mean they couldn't happen here. A senior congressman, James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), is working quietly but efficiently to turn the entire United States population into informants--by force.
Sensenbrenner, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee Chairman, has introduced legislation that would essentially draft every American into the war on drugs. H.R. 1528, cynically named "Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act,"
snip----
H.R. 1528 also establishes new draconian penalties for a variety of non-violent drug offenses, including:


Five years for anyone who passes a marijuana joint at a party to someone who, at some point in his or her life, has been in drug treatment;
Ten years for mothers with substance abuse problems who commit certain drug offenses at home (even if their children are not at home at the time);
Five years for any person with substance abuse problems who begs a friend in drug treatment to find them some drugs.

These sentences would put non-violent drug offenders behind bars for as long as rapists, and they include none of the drug treatment touted in the bill's name.

snip---
http://www.alternet.org/story/22048 /


A man cries out over his brother's body at Yarmouk hospital, after Maj. Gen. Wael al-Rubaei, director of the National Security Ministry's operations room, and his driver were assassinated by two carloads of gunmen in a drive-by shooting on their way to work, in Baghdad's Mansour district in Iraq Monday, May 23, 2005. (AP Photo/Mohammed Uraibi)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. why do republicans hate us for our fredoms?
this folks needs to become the meme... for it is clear they hate us for our freedoms
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't you understand?
The pussies who make money off of prisons (from the contractors to the administrators to the prison guards) are too cowardly and weak and fucked up in the heads themselves to want to deal with violent, dangerous criminals. They are scared of rapists and murderers and white collar criminals. They piss their pants at the mere thought of having to properly confine and control truly violent criminal individuals because they are just GREEDY PUSSIES.

So they had to invent a whole new class of criminals to torment and incarcerate. There just isn't any money in the real criminal market. So make up stupid laws to put more average, non-violent, peaceful, otherwise-law-abiding, tax-paying citizens behind bars and you can stuff nightsticks up assholes and torment average citizens with no fear of actually getting your greedy little pussy self injured!

Don't you love their notion of a safe America? While baby rapers run free, these animals enjoy torturing and abusing people who wouldn't hurt anyone. I curse every one in the Prison Industria Complex for creating a nation in which NO CHILDREN ARE SAFE ANYMORE, but by god the prison guards are real safe....
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. The key to total control.
Edited on Mon May-23-05 06:25 PM by silverweb
If it's not a crime, make it a crime. Make it so that certain inactions constitute crime. Make it so that no one can possibly avoid being a criminal in some fashion.

It's leverage, pure and simple. Enact the above and the authorities are free to prosecute and imprison whoever they want -- pretty much whenever they want.

Total control. Orwell had it right.

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- for ever."
Orwell, 1984, chapter 3.

We're almost there.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. exactly...
:cry:




A man cries out over his brother's body at Yarmouk hospital, after Maj. Gen. Wael al-Rubaei, director of the National Security Ministry's operations room, and his driver were assassinated by two carloads of gunmen in a drive-by shooting on their way to work, in Baghdad's Mansour district in Iraq Monday, May 23, 2005. (AP Photo/Mohammed Uraibi)
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Call it by it's true name.......
State sponsered terrorism. They want to scare the hell out of everyone. Personally, I'm tired of the scare tactics.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. already have that in my little town
Edited on Mon May-23-05 06:44 PM by madrchsod
the police decided that people should report anything suspicious. this used to be a decent place to live but now it`s a joke and the joke is on us
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. How do they enforce it?
Do they come around interrogating people periodically or what?
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Oops....
Edited on Mon May-23-05 06:53 PM by silverweb
Self delete double post. How did that happen?

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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Here's how the 'spy' section of the legislation works:
If you "witness" certain drug offenses taking place or "learn" about them, you must report the offenses to law enforcement within 24 hours and provide "full assistance in the investigation, apprehension and prosecution" of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime punishable by a mandatory minimum two-year prison sentence, and a maximum sentence of 10 years.

Here are some examples of offenses you would have to report to police within 24 hours: You find out that your brother, who has children, recently bought a small amount of marijuana to share with his wife;

You discover that your son gave his college roommate a marijuana joint;

You learn that your daughter asked her boyfriend to find her some drugs, even though they're both in treatment.

In each of these cases you would have to report the relative to the police within 24 hours. Taking time to talk to your relative about treatment instead of calling the police immediately could land you in jail."

--From http://www.alternet.org/story/22048
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. FUCK THEM!
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. is it then a double crime to smoke grass?
I guess its a crime to smoke it, and not report that i smoked it?

What about when someone has a medicinal marijuana perscription and they
smoke it? Is it a crime to not rat on yourself for smoking your
medicine?

Are you really sure this legislation is serious? I can't help but
find it an abusurd kind of high school joke, not worthy of adults
let alone government?
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Sensenbrenner, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee Chairman,
yes, he is serious.
Sensenbrenner, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee Chairman,
has introduced legislation that would essentially draft every American into the war on drugs. H.R. 1528, cynically named "Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act," would compel people to spy on their family members and neighbors, and even go undercover and wear a wire if needed. If a person resisted, he or she would face mandatory incarceration.

Here's how the "spy" section of the legislation works: If you "witness" certain drug offenses taking place or "learn" about them, you must report the offenses to law enforcement within 24 hours and provide "full assistance in the investigation, apprehension and prosecution" of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime punishable by a mandatory minimum two-year prison sentence, and a maximum sentence of 10 years.

Here are some examples of offenses you would have to report to police within 24 hours:
snip----http://www.alternet.org/story/22048
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Well, if that doesn't bake the cake
I've sent that Nazi SS scumbag an email regarding his attacks on
the constitution and the freedoms of american people.

Nazis... these scumbags are nazis... masquerading as brownshirts.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. What is this? The new Turkish state? They gona beat feet too?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. Gee, they'll have to raise taxes
to pay for all the new prisons this law will require.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Probably just put up tents
Edited on Mon May-23-05 09:01 PM by hiley
like that fool Sheriff in Arizona.
I imagine that the way prisons are ran will go giant steps backwards, to save money.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio

In-Tents Section:
There are 29 tents of male Working Inmates, 10 tents of female Working Inmates, and one control "Tower" of non-working fully sentenced male inmates in this Section. The tent compound includes a 60' observation tower (with a pink neon Vacancy sign) which is manned around the clock. The average daily population in In-Tents is about 1,000 inmates. Three detention officers are typically assigned to supervise "the yard".

Con-Tents Section:
There are 20 tents of Work Furlough and Work Release male inmates, and seven tents for Work Furlough and Work Release female inmates in this Section. The average daily population is nearly 400 inmates.

Pup-Tents Section:
The Pup-Tents Section has five large tents. The facility is capable of housing up to 100 male juvenile inmates who have been convicted and sentenced as adults. The compound also has a modular building with two high school classrooms, offices, and showers.

Workbox Section:
This office maintains files, work records, and rosters for about 1,700 inmates that are sentenced to county jail. Workbox personnel
snip---
http://www.mcso.org/submenu.asp?file=tentcity
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. he loves to boasts how it costs more to feed the dogs
than the prisoners.
even makes them wear pink underwear to humiliate them...
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Christ, we really have fallen down
the rabbit hole, haven't we?

This is just so damn weird, it's hard to believe it's for real, even though it is.

Redstone
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. This is 100x weirder than the end of the final episode of 'Seinfeld'.
Remember how absurd it seemed that most of the Seinfeld cast could be jailed for the passive crime of not being good Samaritans? Maybe that's where Sensenbrenner got the idea for this legislation.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. The pattern continues...
The pattern of removing our civil liberties & replacing them with authoritarian rule. Rethugs continue to push legislation that our representatives fear will make them look weak, so they go along with it; many Dems will fear that they will appear soft on crime, or appear to be 'pro-pot' rights if they oppose this crappy legislation, just like many Dems feared/fear that they will appear to be "anti-faith" if they oppose faith based initiatives, so they cave.

This pattern will not change, we will continue to lose civil liberties and spin ever closer to a facsist state as long as Dems fear the spin that the rethugs will put on their votes. Stand up, speak out, and quit bending over for these facsists!!
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Don't Let Congress Expand the Patriot Act in Secret
Senate Committee to Review Controversial Patriot Act Legislation in Secret; Draft Legislation Hidden from Public

May 17, 2005
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Media@dcaclu.org

WASHINGTON The Senate Intelligence Committee announced today that it is rushing forward with a markup of Patriot Act reauthorization legislation Thursday, but that the session will be behind closed doors.

Some of the most extreme parts of the Patriot Act are set to sunset, or expire, at the end of this year unless Congress reauthorizes them. When lawmakers passed the Patriot Act just 45 days after 9/11, they included these sunsets because they knew that some provisions shouldnt be made permanent. The committee will be reviewing legislation involving the sunsets and other key parts of the Patriot Act that impact civil liberties.

Members of Congress have until the end of the year to review and modify the Patriot Act, but some lawmakers hope to steamroll the entire process through Congress in the next few weeks. This closed-door markup is an indication that some in Congress are trying to rush through legislation, and keep the public in the dark.

snip---
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=1825...

Don't Let Congress Expand the Patriot Act in Secret

The Patriot Act passed a mere 45 days after the September 11 attacks with virtually no debate or discussion. Fortunately many of the sections that expanded government power were set to expire at the end of this year. Now, some in Congress are secretly considering legislation that would make these powers permanent and expand them.

Hundreds of communities -- and seven states -- have signaled their rejection of the excessive powers in the Patriot Act by passing resolutions. But Congress is ignoring these and other public statements of concern against the Patriot Act and holding key hearings in secret. >>Tell me more about this issue before I act.

Urge your Members of Congress to hold open and public hearings on the expansion of the Patriot Act!

Complete the form on the left with your information.
snip---
https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?&pagename=homepag...
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. A post worthy of it's own thread
We have seen first hand what evil (energy policy=war in Iraq) lurks within these (or I would argue, ALL) issues being discussed in secret,not open to public record/scrutiny.

Your post is indeed our next/now call to action.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-23-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Started a thread about Patriot 2
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