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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:30 AM
Original message
Are insurance salesmen good people or are they the
Corporation's front line soldiers helping to send you down the road of destruction?
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Every one I've ever met was a con man
Some of them were very nice people, but scammers nonetheless.

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SonofMass Donating Member (225 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I have to agree with you. Plus they are ALWAYS so ANNOYING!
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. They're salesmen. If they weren't selling insurance they'd be selling
something else. There's a salesman gene, you see.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. I've got that gene, I'm a salesman and proud of it
but I don't lie, cheat or steal. I work 100% commission and I have had some of my customers for over decade.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Good for you. I didn't imply that you did. But here's a question for you:
Do you continue to try to sell something to someone who says no, they don't need what you're selling? Do you consider that only a bigger challenge for you, as a salesman? That's what I mean by a salesman gene.

And I suppose, in the interests of truth, that's actually 2 questions :)
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. when you buy a bicycle do you just buy the bike or do you get
thorn resistant tires and a helmet, water bottle a repair kit? If I recommended these things to you for the type of riding your planning and you refused them thinking you wouldn't need them would I be wrong to ask again? If you bought a new DVD player without the cables needed to hook it up to your HDTV, component, DVI or HDMI which aren't usually included in the box would I be wrong to ask again. Customers can be ignorant about the products they are shopping for and my job is to inform and assist but due to bad experiences with "bad" sales people they can be resistant to making the right decisions. your either a buyer or a seller . The challenge is to see customers recommending you to their friends and family and to continue doing business with these customers over many years..I enjoy my job but every new customer I get I still have to get past the "used car salesman" impression, Honesty and integrity are the hallmarks of the salesmen in it for the long term. Bty I don't sell insurance or cars
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Ok, I'm sold :) I don't want the extended warranty, though.
I didn't mean to press on the nerve, honest. I appreciate a good salesman--one who has the facts when I need them...AND one who can read me & knows when to back off.

I once was in the market for a used car, and I knew I wanted a Celica. Didn't have a lot to spend so I did my homework & shopped the shit out of that car. By about the fifth car lot, I saw a pretty good one, and had to go find the salesman to ask my questions. Later, as we were working out the deal I asked him how come he hadn't hovered over me the whole time, the way car salesmen do. He said it looked like I knew what I was doing (he saw me sighting down the side of the car to see if there'd been major body work) and when I was ready I'd come to him. He had read me perfectly. He was a good salesman.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. My empathy as a human being and a progressive is an asset
in my job, but like most of the posters here I've had bad experiences and those stick with you longer than good ones..I'm not the best at what I do and I have to agree that the most successful usually have undesirable personality characteristics, but you can be successful and still keep your soul :-)
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StayOutTheBushes Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. They are liars and con artists for perhaps the worst industry in the
world. I wouldn't want to have a share of and insurance salesman's Karma.
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. My story this week.
Edited on Fri May-20-05 08:40 AM by warrior1
From a experience with my 'ex-agent', I thinking of filing a complaint against him with The Department of Insurance. What he had ask me to do was illegal. Double coverage. I'm canceling them because I had gotten a new insurer. He said just let my policy with them expire in a month, then I would get a letter from them sayin they canceled me. Fuck that shit, I call the main office and complainted. It was State Farm Insurance.

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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. Never buy insurance from a company with the words State or Farm in the
Edited on Fri May-20-05 10:10 AM by Ouabache
name of the company.
Funny advice given to me once.

And then there was the Nationwide agent who sold me a renter's policy once, only to notify me a week later that it was not accepted, but that the $5 I had paid on it was non-refundable as it was an 'application' fee. He knew it would not be accepted from the get-go I think. Ripped me off for $5. I've been sore about that ever since.
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. middle men are leaches. Period.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You hit the nail squarely on the head!
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. People are people
some of their intentions are good, some bad.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Vermin are vermin.
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Brianboru Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day" had the right approach.
Avoid them at all costs.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Good Idea!
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
12. My grandfather did exactly that his whole life
He sold all sorts of insurance round norristown, PA. There was a time
when people had a little sign on the front of their houses indicating
they had fire insurance, and that the fire department should even
bother to do anything! He never left PA his whole life.

That grandfather made a good living for his family and died of old age.
So i'm not in a position to say they're evil, as i'm descended from
one... or perhaps they are evil and that is why i'm evil.

I would never have chosen his lifestyle... it was karmic for him... and
he would never have chosen mine. Perhaps each person is an
individual with our own karmas and unique lives.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. well they are not good people in their professional lives
The whole scheme is to get people to gamble on a rigged game. Everyone puts up cash and when disaster occurs, the cash is supposed to go to help out the person in trouble -- except that the insurance company takes such a high "vig" that often the person ends up in trouble anyway. Exhibit A: People with serious injuries or illnesses who have insurance but after all the co-pays and delays and denials end up needing to declare bankruptcy anyway.

Car insurers are the lowest of the low. There is no other word for them but thieves. Your car is hit, and they total it out, give you HALF what you need to replace it, and then take your supposedly totalled car and sell it in Mexico. You are a victim through no fault of your own, and they make a profit on THEIR driver's crappy driving.

The insurance seller or agent may be a very good person in their personal life, but we need not kid ourselves that they are doing anything other than facilitating a slow but sure transfer of all wealth from the middle class (which can't afford to self-insure major purchases like house, car, and health) to their wealthy corporate owners.

And insurers who sell known defective products to feeble-minded old people like cancer insurance should all be rounded up and put in prison. Fraud should be prosecuted as fraud whether or not someone is backed up by an insurance agency.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. It's not exactly a rigged game,

Because people and insurance companies have different utility curves.

As a person, I wouldn't take the option of a coin toss that would cost me everything I own if I lost and treble it if I won. That's because my utility curve is convex - having twice as much money isn't twice as good.

As an insurance company, all that matters to me is that on average over all such gambles I come out slightly ahead, and I'm gambling enough that it averages out, at least in theory.

As a human, I can take a bet with an insurance company such that while on average my *wealth* will be lower than if I didn't bet, on average the *utility* of my wealth will be higher - I'll certainly end up with 9 instead of 10, but I won't risk ending up with 1.

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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. "slightly" ahead? Oh please
I wouldn't object if the insurance company took reasonable profits and came out "slightly ahead" on their gambles. What I object to is obscene profit based on cheating the customer. The insurance company tries every trick in the book to avoid paying out. They are happy to take, but they are not happy to pay. That is cheating, my friend. If you pick up your chips in the middle of the roll at the dice table, you are arrested for a felony. But if you "total" a car telling the accident victim it's worthless and give them far less than they need to replace the car and then turn around and sell it yourself in Mexico for a profit, then you may call yourself an auto insurer but you are still a good old-fashioned car thief and should be regarded as such.



The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
14. The most depicable breed are the car salesmen.
Next are ad salespeople. They are sharks. I know because I have worked at magazines with ad people for years.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. The Insurance Industry is the biggest Scam Artist of all
Edited on Fri May-20-05 10:21 AM by TheGoldenRule
They promote fear and run with it. They rip off people by trying to get out of paying on policies and jack up rates if you have a claim or don't have perfect credit. They have a choke hold on the medical field that has put this country into health care crisis that gets worse by the day.

There needs to be insurance reform in this country-but it'll never happen because these bastards pretty much OWN congress! :grr:
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
19. Non Sequitur Nailed it yesterday
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losdiablosgato Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
20. A successful sales droid is a liar and a cheat by his or her very nature
Car, insurance, houses it does not matter. 90% of the all good sales pros are shaddy as they come.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. whatever, you speak from ignorance...
Edited on Fri May-20-05 11:48 AM by Demonaut
or you're an easy target for sharks
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losdiablosgato Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Every one I have ever met who was in sales for a year or more
was shaddy. I know not all, but from my experience if you start dealing with a successful sales droid, grab and hold on to your wallet.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. wtf is "shaddy" is this a caddy with an umbrella?
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losdiablosgato Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I tried my hand at sale in a car dealership in Houstoin once
The managers and the long term sales droids there were as crooked as the Mississippi river bottom. They would laugh and joke about how they took advantage of people, particularly single women and minorities.

EXAMPLE:
They would quote and swear they could get a rat of say 7% then send the people home in the new car only to call tehm a day or two later and say that they could only get 9%. Even though they could get 7% on th loan. They would strong arm people into taking this.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. wow, you've based your opinions on one car dealership and one
Edited on Fri May-20-05 12:30 PM by Demonaut
group of people, granted that car salesman can be the worst but to assume all salespeople are liars and thieves is to assume that all priests molest small children, stereotypes are easily formed by small minds, whether it's race, sex, religion or profession
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losdiablosgato Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. How about the realtor my wife and I used 3 years ago
He is a top proforming remax agent in Pasadena TX. We negociated a fee of $195 of the sales commission, down 6%. When we went to close the fee was back on buried in the paper work. We objected called his office and they cut us a check to cover the money. But the people at the title office told us he does this often, agrees to drop the fee then tries to put it back in stealth.

I have more examples if you want them. Like I said 90% of the long term professional sale droids I have dealt with in my life wer crooked.
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. and you've never had a good experience.....ever
with anyone............ever
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losdiablosgato Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Maybe a few, but the bad one far out weight the good
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
22. I am the daughter of a salesman and the granddaughter of another
It's a job like any other. Not all lawyers are scum -- though there are some on this board who disagree -- any not all politicans are crooks -- really.

Salesmen tend to be very competitive people. However, the good ones aren't the smarmy types you see depicted in the movies. Those folks exist, of course, but they aren't salesmen. They are people with sales jobs who don't know how to sell and are overcompensating for their shortcomings.

Good salespeople are usually likeable types. I worked for a company where I dealt with the sales force and I could always tell who would make it and who wouldn't. Good salespeople make a great first impression and generally know how far to push, and when to stop. They also know how to develop relationships with clients and be go-to people when the situation calls for it.

Good salespeople are very rare.
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Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. I was a Realtor for years, now going into the insurance field...
I do not consider myself a "salesperson" but rather a counselor.
My policy is to point out the advantages/disadvantages of your options.
I have even suggested that people NOT sell their home. In one instance, it was a bad market and the people were going to be moving back to the area in a few years and loved their home. That was in the DC market and I know for a fact they made the right decision. That market took off after that and that home has doubled in price.
Now that I am disabled and cannot climb steps, I had to make a career change.
My ethics will not change or be compromised. I would never work for an unethical employer.
I will be servicing homeowners/auto policies, but will also provide quotes for an independent insurance company. Progressive is one of the lines we offer.
As shrike said, there are good and bad in many fields. Don't paint everyone with the same bad brush.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. I have known very very good hearted people in that profession..
But I know there are also scammers. Most seem to believe in the idea that insurance helps a family. And.. the long time agency owners are just as upset to see how insurance covers less and less, for more money. When an insurance agent sells a life insurance policy to a family, and something happens to the parent, I think there is some personal satisfaction that the children will be cared for.

Basically, I think it's dangerous to stereotype all insurance agents the way I'm seeing in this thread. just as in every profession, there are good ones and bad ones. The insurance agent we know the best is actually a Bhuddist.. and sees the biz as helping people. the man and his wife would do anything for other people.. And then, there are the scammer sales types.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. Insurance companies are a triangle.
Underwriters in the home office write the policies based on probablities of loss/gain. Agents sell the product they are handed by the corporation, often not fully understanding what that product is because no one really knows until you have a loss. At that moment the adjusters determine what the language / coverage is. Adjusters make little effort to determine if it is a legitimate loss. Adjusters like to write checks to clients. Agents complain to the corp. office because false claims are paid out all of the time but the company does not care - large loss runs mean they can be canceled because they are a high risk or premiums can be increased.

Meanwhile, the corp officers are walking the halls of congress buying favors and getting favorable legislation and little interference. Sales agents are a very minor part of the insurance industry. An industry that is really an umbrella over our entire culture and way of life.

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livinginphotographs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. Are you people being this dense on purpose?
This thread is....you got it......FLAMEBAIT!!!!


Or maybe I'm wrong, and this poster was really trying to foster a productive discussion. :sarcasm:
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-20-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. of course it is, but sometimes it's fun to respond
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