I'm pretty upset right now, and I need an explanation

[WilliamPitt]

As you all know, I was one of the people who took point on raising money for Andy. I wrote about it for truthout two or three times, and convinced the crew at Progressive Democrats of America as well that we needed to raise a call for help.

This is what I wrote for truthout on May 3rd:

"A few weeks ago, Andy was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, one of the more dangerous varieties of the disease. His doctors told him he needed a Whipple procedure to get at the tumor, and only a few hospitals in America can perform this complicated procedure with the required competence. To compound the problem, Andy shares the plight of millions of others in our disgusting for-profit health care system and does not have health insurance."

This is what I wrote on the PDA blog, in our call for help, on April 29th:

"Several weeks ago, Andy was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. He was recently told that he must undergo what is called a Whipple Procedure. This is a very serious surgery that few hospitals in America are skilled enough to perform well, and requires significant time for recovery. Fortunately, some friends managed to get Andy a slot at Johns Hopkins Medical Center, one of the premier hospitals for this type of procedure. He is slated for the procedure in the second week of May. Unfortunately, the hospital requires a $25,000 down-payment before they assent to doing the Whipple, and requires another $25,000 once the procedure is done. They are expecting the down-payment immediately."

The basis for this started way back in February. On the 29th, I posted this truthout blog entry, which I reposted here on the first and fifteenth of every month to help raise money:

"For the last several weeks, Andy has been suffering through a bout of Hepatitis. The word came down yesterday, however, that his situation is far more serious. 'I apparently have a tumor growing around the bile duct where it passes through my pancreas," he wrote. "The tissue sample was consistent with malignancy; it could be benign but I am planning for the worst.'"

Note that here it says 'tumor.' In subsequent weeks I was told that it was pancreatic cancer requiring a Whipple. Note also that the fundraising for Andy did not start a week or so ago, but started three months ago.

I woke up today to this DU thread, in which it was reported:

"fyi: it is a tumour on the duct, not the pancreas themselves. it looks to not have spread at all. it is not pancreatic cancer as others have posted, but if it was not caught early enough, it would have certainly spread there."

"...as others have posted..."

I am one of those "others" who posted it was pancreatic cancer, requiring a Whipple. I posted it here, on truthout, and on PDA. I did so because that is what I was told was the diagnosis, repeatedly, by both Andy and others.

Now that it turns out not to be the case, I have some questions:

1. If it was not the very serious pancreatic cancer, why did the surgery need to be done at Johns Hopkins?

2. If a Whipple was not required, why was $25,000 and then $50,000 needed for this surgery? Andy could have gotten this far-less-serious procedure done back in Seattle for a hell of a lot less money.

3. Why was I personally told this was pancreatic cancer? Why was I allowed to repeat this now-inaccurate diagnosis many times without anyone correcting me?

Understand: I believe Andy has a tumor of some kind, and this requires medical attention. I do not think this entire situation was fabricated from nothing.

But the 400 people who will come into this thread with "Andy doesn't need this stress" can hold your water. Andy is apparently a hell of a lot less ill than I and others were led to believe, and I need some answers. I put my reputation, the reputation of truthout, the reputation of PDA, and the reputations of all the people who work for those organizations on the line not once, not twice, but every day for weeks on this. I have a huge, huge responsibility here, and I am not going to just let that drop.

I have a personal reason for asking these questions over and above everything else. A great and good friend of PDA, activist Damu Smith, was recently diagnosed with advanced colon cancer. There is no ambiguity about this diagnosis. But because I was told Andy had pancreatic cancer requiring a $50,000 Whipple in the best hospital on the Eastern seaboard, I talked PDA into diverting time and resources towards Andy. This wound up diverting time and resources away from Damu.

I would like some answers. No wait and see. I have spent time with Andy, worked with him, thought I knew him well enough to vouch for him in a time of crisis. I am feeling personally betrayed right now, and furthermore I have put far more than my own feelings and standing on the line here.

If you think I'm a bastard for asking, I will live with that. But if this is not explained to a degree I find satisfactory, there is going to be hell to pay.

[Goldmund]

1. Thank you.

[Stand and Fight]

2. There is nothing wrong or offensive in anything you said.

You want answers and you deserve them. I am certain others feel just the same way that you do. I among them.

[ET Awful]

3. Question though

and I'm not trying to discount your concern in any way . . .

What is the difference between saying "I apparently have a tumor growing around the bile duct where it passes through my pancreas" and "it is a tumour on the duct, not the pancreas themselves?"

They sound like they're describing the same thing to me.

[WilliamPitt]

6. That was February

In the time since, I was told it was pancreatic cancer requiring a WEhipple. I was told this by Andy. I put that third quote in there to underscore the fact that fundraising for Andy didn'st start here a couple of weeks ago, but has been ongoing for three months.

[Bluerthanblue]

36. seems like

you need to talk to Andy HIMSELF- and address your 'legitimate' concerns- i personally don't have an 'issue' with how '....terrible' the need was,- what i gave, i gave freely-
But you have questions that need answers- You want to know your trust has not been mis-placed, and you feel responsible for 'vouching' for someone- PLEASE! don't let this discourage you from your desire to bring 'good' to others, no matter what the outcome-

If people stop trying to make this world a better place because of being mis-led ( AND THAT'S NOT AN ASSUMPTION- SIMPLY A POSSIBILITY)- we should all drink the kool-aid asap.

No act of kindness, no matter how small, or how it is recieved, or deserved is EVER wasted- it's one more step towards a 'better world'-

i respect you, and i believe the best of people even when that seems insane-

Please tell me more about your friend that is in need- i don't have much, but i'm a believer in paying it forward, without expectations of any 'return'- other than the knowledge that i am becoming who i know i want to be- (pretty selfish when you come down to it)-

[Willy Lee]

that was a beautiful post.

Thank you.

[qanda]

81. I just found out in this thread that our friend Damu is sick

Damu is an absolute stand-up guy!!!!!!! My husband has done work with him and Black Voices for Peace over the past few years and he is an inspiration to all. The news that he is sick is shocking and disheartening. I would hate for our side to lose someone so dedicated and valuable. My prayers go out for Damu and his family.

[uppityperson]

112. Close but not quite the same, description and picture here

First tumor problem is on the bile duct, the tube leading from the gallbladder to the intestines (this is where the bile, digestive enzymes) travel. The second is on something else, perhaps the pancreas itself, perhaps other cells, maybe abdominal lining or metastisized cells from somewhere else. The end result may be the same, but the where and why and treatment are different.

Bile is made in liver, stored in gallbladder, and sent to intestine when needed for digestion. Your gallbladder is on your right, under your liver. The bile duct leads from the gallbladder to intestine, meeting with the pancreatic duct (leading from pancreas to intestines). Bile travels through this tube to the intestine

The pancreas is a very interesting organ, basically making insulin and digestive enzymes. It is behind the stomach, with a duct, a tube, leading to the intestine, which joins up with the bile duct.

You can have cancer of the pancreas or of the duct or of other stuff, like cells around the duct. Pancreatic cancer is serious, very serious, and can be very painful. Think of making digestive enzymes inside yourself and not being able to shove them off into your intestines. Yes, you digest yourself. This happens when the duct gets blocked, or the pancreas fucks up and starts making enzymes where there is no duct (think of cancer being an overgrowth of cells that aren't laid out in proper form).

So, where is the physiological problem? The end result of the tube being blocked may be the same, but where and why will determine the treatment.

[Bluerthanblue]

184. you just described

my beloved fathers trip through hell-

he died of necrotizing pancreatitis following a bout with 'gall stones'- they removed the gall bladder, but left his iv in for over 10 days, got a staph infection they couldn't get under control, and finally when it looked like he was on the mend, he came home and hemmoraged all over the place- the pancreas had been releasing it's nasty juices all over his interabdominal cavity-
they med-flighted him to the best nearest hosp. and he was operated on- .... they took out all his innards, .... and he lived for 10 days in surgical icu- while the MD's ....un-willing... un-able?.... what-ever the reason, still gave us 'hope' that he could survive and maintain a reasonable 'quality of life'-

it was devestating-...... something i would never wish on ANYONE- a death no one should have to endure-

these bodies of ours are fabulous machines, but when they fuck up, they can do that fabulously too-

[GreenPartyVoter]

286. Same thing happened to my MIL

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Well, I have no clue what's going on. I trust both of you and to see

that you aren't totally together on this, I don't know what to think. I'll wait to see what the answers are and what you make of them. *lost*

[Misunderestimator]

5. I'll assume that you've already asked these questions directly of Andy.

It's a bit distressing to see that you have questions about it, especially if you've addressed those questions to him directly without an answer. Have you?

(On edit... it's just a question so that I can form my own opinion. I've sat back through most of this, trying to keep assuming the best.)

[anarchy1999]

83. Us too, Misuderestimator. Will, we're with you as well.

Been off computer since Thursday night. Back on this late morning to find this. It is most distressing to see you Will, having doubts.

We too have stayed out of the fray, we did contribute though. We did promise to send additional, but before it could go into the mail the controversy broke out. Waiting to see how this all comes out before 2nd check goes in the mail.

Will, our trust in you is unshaken. You trusted friends, nothing wrong there, it is an admirable trait.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

7. Just curious

If you spent time with Andy, worked with him, and knew him on a personal level - to whatever degree - how is it that you and he never discussed his diagnosis in detail?

Or, has the diagnosis changed recently? Medicine makes errors all the time.

Johns Hopkins is a fancy place, mostly for extraordinary procedures.

(FYI - I have no idea who Andy is, nor do I know much beyond what you laid out in your post - I do know that people were generous and supportive in this matter, but it does seem that the situation has taken on a kind of complexity that seems sudden.)

[bruin303]

144. Ditto

I would like to hear more about who Andy is. Sorry for the ignorance.

[MadHound]

8. Perhaps you need to talk to Andy

After all, he would be the only one who could truly provide you with the answers you need. Besides, this is DU, after all, and shit can get flung around with great abandon, with matters being taken out of context, and people making mountains out of molehills. I'm assuming that you have a way of contacting Andy, I would suggest that you do. perhaps he can provide you with a copy of his doctor's diagnosis.

But frankly, relying on an anonymous chat board is not a good way to get such information.:shrug:

[Goldmund]

12. He's not relying on an anonymous chat board.

He is publically asking questions about a public fundraiser, in view of people who have made it possible.

[supernova]

14. I second this

I think you need to talk to Andy directly, Will. He's the only one who can provide the answers.

It is entirely possible that after the tests he's been doing, that the situation looks a little less dire.

[fooj]

22. Exactly. Why air a concern publicly before giving a "friend" an

opportunity to respond? IMO, this is a perfect example of "shit flinging"... contact Andy! Go straight to the source.

peace.

[WilliamPitt]

29. It was the source

that got me going on pancreatic cancer, Whipples and fifty grand. I would like a public disclosure for reasons I think are clearly understandable.

[knowbody0]

59. especially since the "proof"

was the copy of the certified check, not the cancelled check

[emcguffie]

76. Could be they found it wasn't CA when they got in. nt

[emcguffie]

Could also be a "pre-cancerous" condition

--that they have to get out, or it will become cancer. And if the Whipple is needed for that spot, it is needed.

Pancreatic cancer is so serious I can certainly see why one would conflate pre-cancerous and cancerous. Having had a pre-cancerous condition myself. You have to get it out however it is gotten out, and be very thankful you did so early enough.

[Catherine Vincent]

9. A lot of cases doctors don't know 100% if it's cancer until they perform

the surgery, correct?

[supernova]

15. Or if it has spread

to other areas besides the primary tumor.

[havocmom]

10. Fair and honest questions about something which seems fuzzy

Much as I pray for Andy's good health, I get the feeling I have missed something cuz I don't understand the nuances.

[ultraist]

11. I don't think you are a bastard for asking

Not by any means. But why are you having to post this, to get answers? It seems that this should be able to be resolved off line. After you receive clarification, if it turns out that it is not cancer, I would expect you would publicly discuss it.

I'm sure everyone realizes that you put your personal and professional reputation on the line. It's your duty to set the record straight for your sake and the sake of your the orgs you are affiliated with. I respect that and the fact you are seeking out the truth here.

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. Take Nothing on Faith Alone

Ask to see the medical records.

Yes, that is an unfortunate thing to say. But it would be my advice to anyone in this or a similiar situation - regardless of who was or was not involved and whether or not I knew them.

Think of it as evidence that supports a persuasive argument. The argument itself may be perfectly legitimate but it remains unproven without evidence to substantiate its claims.

I expect no less of some fundy preacher who claims that people were physically healed as a result of his ministry - medical documents showing both an illness and a cure.

Edit to add: I do not know any of the parties involved and do not question the motives of any. Like others, I have merely followed this developing story here on DU.

[MissB]

16. Will, it wasn't Andy that posted

"fyi: it is a tumour on the duct, not the pancreas themselves. it looks to not have spread at all. it is not pancreatic cancer as others have posted, but if it was not caught early enough, it would have certainly spread there."

It was Bettyellen. :shrug: I'd think it'd be better to hear it from Andy, than from Bettyellen or anyone else.

Let's let Andy tell us about the diagnosis, rather than have a 3rd party do it. I realize why you are up in arms about this, but once again we're going to have to ask Andy to clarify the situation.

[Goldmund]

17. I agree.

[goodboy]

18. me too. (nt)

[WilliamPitt]

19. Well

I was told differently several times. I find out differently buried in a thread, posted by someone who has been spending time with Andy.

[MissB]

23. It is kinda like that game of telephone

You really just have to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Until then, you can borrow this: :banghead:

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maat]

40. I think that the important thing is that we got him to JH,

and they did diagnostic tests that perhaps wouldn't have been performed if Andy had not visited the right facility. These tests were very expensive, and, fortunately, they were interpreted by experts (that are hard to find).

I'm praying that when they go in, and operate (and they will have to operate and go in and see what it is and remove it), they WILL find out that it is not as serious as first thought.

I pray that Andy gets well quickly. I'm sure that the funds will barely cover all that needs to be done, if that.

I do not regret donating one iota; hopefully, this will focus attention on the heathcare situation in this country. Andy will get well, and we can focus attention on how important it is to get the proper healthcare in a timely fashion. I'm proud of you, me, and the rest of DU for showing that such a marvelous campaign can successfully be carried out.


Now, as for the vicitm of colon cancer ... if he needs help, please let us know, Will.

We really need to highlight (1) how important it is to get regular annual exams, (2) how important it is to get timely care, and (3) how pitiful the healthcare system is in the USA.

Bless you, Will. God bless Andy. God bless your friend with colon problems.

It will be fine.

[Willy Lee]

78. As someone said earlier, you often don't know the diagnosis

until you've been through some pretty invasive tests at the hospital. When we went through this, first it was-

You have a bladder infection, take these antibiotics.

Then it was- OK, that didn't work, lets do a biopsy.

Then it was- the biopsy looked good, strange looking cells, though...

A week later- you have bladder cancer.

Then, after more tests- you have rhabdomyosarcoma, a soft tissue cancer.

This is not uncommon at the hospital, and this was at an NCI designated site.

Please talk to Andy. If the diagnosis has changed, which it may have, from pancreatic cancer- a very very nasty cancer with a low survival rate- to a malignant tumor located near the pancreas- I would say we all have reason to celebrate for Andy.

[question everything]

265. Sound like an episode of "House"

tonight, at 9:00/8:00 pm on.... Fox..

[Willy Lee]

319. I don't know what that is-

but am assuming that you are not poking fun at my family's struggle with cancer.

[Im with Rosey]

261. Maybe everyone is a little right

and a little wrong. Sometimes when talking about things that we don't completely understand, we put it into our own words. Those words can sometimes drift into something that is not quite as accurate as we meant, but through no one's fault it has become confused and inaccurate. I, myself don't always protect the accuracy of a statement just in my own interpretation of the statement. This has nothing to do with credibility, it is simply human nature that sometimes happens. Your trust in Andy is damaged and the only way to solve that is to level with him about everything you are concerned about, leave nothing out. You, Will, are a very perseptive person, you will KNOW. You cannot let this go unchecked. There is no one here that questions your integrity, you have, all along, believed what you were being told because you trust another person. If there is a problem, BIG IF, it is not because of something you did wrong, we are not responsible for the wrongs of others.

[Jo March]

283. Will, could you please check your inbox?

I PM'd you. thanks

[salvorhardin]

24. Exactly

Will, it wasn't Andy that posted ... It was Bettyellen ... Let's let Andy tell us about the diagnosis, rather than have a 3rd party do it.

There's been a hell of a lot of noise made and a hell of a lot of changing statements from everyone including Andy. Andy himself has said it was pancreatic cancer several times. I've given three times in the past couple of months and quite frankly right now I don't know what to think.

So... Will, thank you for broaching a subject many of us have been afraid to post about and Andy, all I would like is a consistent history of what was known and when. What is the real diagnosis and do you really need a Whipple procedure?

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I'm feeling particularly disillusioned this afternoon.

[BattyDem]

41. Exactly

Every time there's trouble or some kind of question about Andy's honesty, it's because of a third-party post.

Let's wait for Andy to say something. I don't know what the truth is, but the man deserves the opportunity to speak for himself before he's criticized - though I completely understand Will's point of view because he DID put his reputation on the line and I'd be anxious about it, too.

In any case, I just hope that Andy ends up healthy after all this is over. :-)

[Jacobin]

20. Why not take the direct approach?

For the life of me, I can't understand why someone in a position such as yourself would not get the patient to sign a HIPPA form and then send the form on to the hospital. There really is no need for all this public thrashing around. There is no need to wonder what is going on. The facts are readily available.

The hospital can then send you ALL his medical records. Then any doubts could be absolutely and completely resolved.

I have a HIPPA form that I use in my practice that I would be glad to email to you if you'd like to PM me. If the patient signs it, you can fax it to the hospital and they will give you his medical records. Its quite simple.

[WilliamPitt]

28. It appears that horse has left the barn

Had I been a professional about this - instead of a trusting friend - I would have required that a hell of a long time ago before posting any calls for help.

I'd sure like to see one now.

[VelmaD]

34. re: being a trusting friend

:hug:

[ultraist]

87. Yes, it's easy to do

A couple of years ago, a close friend of mine had lung cancer. She wanted me to be able to directly talk to her doctors so she simply filled out a form and I was able to call them and/or talk to them in person.

We did this not because I needed to verify anything, we did it because I was very involved in helping her set up her treatment/care and appointments. (She was too ill to track everything and she did not want to make treatment choices on her own).

The doctors were very open and coooperative. They returned calls, set up meetings and gave me any info they would have given to immediate family.

[belladonna]

21. I was going to post a similiar thread

But was waiting for the PM and e-mail that I sent to Skinner to be answered before I did. I don't really care who flames me or whether I receive a tombstone for saying this, but I've been very uncomfortable with the silence on this board when it comes to this issue and any verification of the cause I donated not just once, but twice to. Would I have donated had I known it wasn't a life threatening condition? Probably not, because we all know there are MANY DU'ers on this board with medical problems and no insurance to pay for them. If I donated to Andy, I have to donate to them all.

I dunno. I hope Andy comes along and clears this all up and that I get rid of this bad feeling I have that I've just had my pocket picked.

Flame away if ya feel the need, people.

[Misunderestimator]

45. No flames here...

It does "feel" odd, and has now for a couple of weeks. I would have thought by now we would have had the definitive answer, but there are just more questions.

I feel bad for feeling this way, and I would guess a lot of other people do too, which explains some of the silence. I don't want a gang after me for having a doubt after all these questions have been raised, when I sincerely want the best for Andy and want all this controversy to just go away.

I don't have regrets about the donations I've made, but the questions are piling up.

[TornadoTN]

25. Thank you and Excellent Post

I'm a long-time lurker, occassional poster who followed this situation very closely. No doubt about it, Andy did have a medical situation and it most likely needed treatment.

However, there are a lot of questions on this matter and you raised the points very succinctly. I think all of us at DU need an explanation, because we all invested our time, money and our emotions to this calling. We deserve to be told the circumstances exactly as they are. No more embellishment, just the facts. If this matter wasn't handled on the straight and narrow, then someone needs to be accountable.

Regardless of the outcome, nothing can take away what we achieved as a community and it doesn't lessen the scope of our intentions in any way.I think coming from you, Will, it speaks volumes about the concern of our community and our compassion for our fellow man.

[sandnsea]

27. Same surgery required?

Whether it's pancreatic cancer or a tumor on the bile duct? This overview seems to say the surgery is done for a few conditions.

http://www.surgery.usc.edu/divisions/tumor/pancreasdiseases/web%20pages/pancreas%20resection/whipple%20operation.html

[merh]

31. .

:shrug:

[Modem Butterfly]

30. You're asking very good questions

1) If this is simply a tumor, surely that would have been discovered when the stent was put in

2) Although Pancreatic cancer is difficult to diagnose early, there is no mistaking it for an encapsulated tumor when it is diagnosed. If this was the case, there is one HELL of a malpractice lawsuit that could be filed here. It's the difference between an almost certain death sentence and severe indigestion.


That being said, no matter what has occured and no matter what will occur, we are all on the same side here on DU. We need to remember that we are allies in a larger fight, one that is bigger than one individual.

[ultraist]

I'm not in the medical field

But I don't think any doctor would conclusively diagnose cancer based on the appearance of a tumor. They rely on biopsies, actual scientific evidence of cancer cells present.

Biopsies don't show cancer if it's not present, since they look at the cells from the biopsy; but they sometimes show it's not present, when it actually is. (It's possible to get only good cells from a biopsy).

To qualify again, I'm not in the medical field, but I did have a lump removed. The doctors told me that it did not appear to be cancer but not until they did the biopsy or remove it, would they know for certain. (It wasn't cancer). This is the same protocol they used for both my father and best friend, who did have cancer, although in both of their cases, they told them it did appear to be cancer but could not be confirmed until they looked directly at the cells via a biopsy.

[Modem Butterfly]

152. My aunt died of pancreatic cancer

We were pretty close when I was a kid, I even lived with her one summer when things were rough at home.

I started to post a long, rambling paragraph about my aunt, pancreatic cancer, and why I have reservations about this situation with Andy, but I decided to cut it. It's really painful for me and it doesn't add much to the discussion. Suffice to say that among bad ways to die, pancreatic cancer ranks pretty high up on the list. Anyone who doesn't have it should consider themselves damn fortunate.

[ultraist]

288. So sorry to hear about your Aunt

:hug:

[EFerrari]

32. Will, you've already had to post one public apology to Andy.

And it looks like you're going for number two.

Is this thread the best way to get your questions answered? How long is it going to take this board to settle down again, do you think?

The source of your information is not Andy's doctor nor Andy. You might consider that, and might have before posting. You know how to get solid information. Why not put those skills to work?

[qanda]

46. Don't you think it's Will who is owed the apology

For even being put in this position. If the diagnosis and prognosis had changed so drastically, shouldn't you or someone else have notified Will to the new facts? Why should he have to come to you to find out or read it in a message that was buried in some obsure thread? He put *his* name on the line and this is how he gets treated. What is up with that?

[EFerrari]

54. In a word. No. Will is a smart person and he knows how to get

good information from reliable sources. :)

[Goldmund]

58. Was bettyellen wrong?

[EFerrari]

116. If I remember what she said, yes.

This is the new information: Andy's cancer has not spread to his lymphatic system and doesn't involve any blood vessels.

We found that out via a CAT scan done at Johns Hopkins late last week. And this should be good news,no?

He will still need a Whipple, although there is a possibility the doctor will go with a "mini Whipple". As I myself am not a doctor, I'm not sure what the difference is.

The cost of the surgery is the same.

And that's what I know, Goldmund

[Goldmund]

124. Thank you.

Has he ever been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer?

[EFerrari]

171. To my knowledge, that is the DX he got in Seattle.

You know, we could be feeling good right now that this thing hasn't spread. That's what the test on Thursday showed.

[Goldmund]

185. The essential question is what "this thing" is.

Leo Strauss believed in noble lies. I don't. WE don't.

It all depends on whether or not your "To my knowledge" is correct.

[EFerrari]

191. True. But I don't know why Johns Hopkins would schedule Andy

for a whipple if he didn't need one. :)

[Debbi801]

260. Beth, here is one thing I do not understand...

And I am not saying I doubt Andy, I don't.

But, I had a tumor removed from my abdomen last summer. I wasn't feeling well, had some similar syptomes as Andy, etc. I went to the doctor. I saw my regular doctor on August 10th. She immediately referred me for further tests. Saw another doctor on August 12th, which was a Thursday. They immediately scheduled my surgery for Monday, August 16th. No time for add'l tests, pre-op blood work, etc. He wanted it out and if he could have scheduled it for that day or Friday, he would have. Luckily, the tumor, while fast growing, was benign.

I would think that the doctors would have wanted to have this surgery performed on Andy just as quickly. I wouldn't think that this should have gone on as long as it has, since it would theoretically increase the odds of it spreading.

Thanks,
Debbi

[EFerrari]

302. Sure. Good question.

Andy has no insurance and JH lost the check. If Andy had had Blue Cross, he'd be post op by now. Sadly, it's that simple.

But I do know that the doc is doing his best to get Andy in as soon as possible.

A DUer explain JH to me as the worst human traffic jam you've ever seen.

Does that make sense?

[WilliamPitt]

137. Where do you get this information?

[EFerrari]

143. From Andy and from MissWaverly. And if you ever have another

question, Will, I sure hope you pm me. I'll do my best to help you find what you need, all right?

[XemaSab]

187. But how could they

even provide him with an estimate of what the surgery would cost without a diagnosis????

[Modem Butterfly]

64. Will really put himself out there, publicly on DU

If he feels he deserves public answers, then he's earned that right. Certainly there are a number of us who would like to get all of this out in the open.

[EFerrari]

104. Yes, he did. So did many of us who are public figures.

And, am I mistaken or did Skinner formulate a plan for us last week?

[Modem Butterfly]

130. I believe you're mistaken

I don't recall Skinner telling anyone else to do anything other than remain calm and clear-headed. Which is pretty good advice in general, IMHO.

[EFerrari]

153. Me, too! Skinner said that when Andy checks into the hospital.,

he will verify that and the costs of the surgery.

Skinner is a smart guy, too. :hi:

[belladonna]

65. Sorry, but it seems to me that those reliable sources failed him

And frankly, I can't believe you're jumping on him and saying he owes anyone an apology. Even IF it turns out that this was on the up and up, somebody should have let Will know what was going on. He should NOT have had to find out here or at his blog. Will he owe Andy or any of you an apology if this turns out to be legit? In a word, no.

[EFerrari]

100. You might want to reread my post. I didn't say he owed anyone

an apology. Yet.

I did say that he has the skills to find the information he needs to put his mind at rest.

[belladonna]

105. Then I'm confused

Why does he need to use his journalism skills to find out the truth?

[Goldmund]

115. Self-delete

[EFerrari]

121. See my reply above. n/t

[Goldmund]

126. Sorry, didn't see it

[qanda]

145. Self Delete

I see the answers above

[Just Me]

33. He needed help. I helped him. That's enough for me.

I don't understand what motivates you to post this rather than discuss your concerns about the degree of Andy's hardship with Andy.

I just don't understand.

[WilliamPitt]

38. About 150 people

who work for organizations that made this call. It isn't as simple as you (or I) would like it to be.

[TornadoTN]

43. Understandable, but

I understand the concern and I second the notion that Andy is the one that will be able to clear this all up. I hope that he will.

But coming from Will, it does raise red flags. I donated on the premise that I was helping someone in dire need. Would I have donated if it wasn't a "life or death" matter? Probably not, because there are so many people out there and in my own community for that matter, that need and deserve treatment for a variety of condition. This was sold as "life or death", and DU answered the call and should be applauded.

I guess its just the feeling of uncertainty, especially when you pour so much effort and so much of yourself into something. It becomes you, you are consumed by it. I don't blame Will for wanting some clarification on the specifics, especially since he played a crucial role in it.

Regardless, as I pointed out in my other thread, noone can take away what we accomplished here or taint our intentions. That, to me, is the essence of this matter.

[seabeyond]

73. i lied by ommission giving this money to andi

because i knew it wasnt something my husband would value or appreciate. i lied because though i thought at first was a description of a tumor that wasnt dangerous, i bought into the pancreatic cancer, and felt life was important enough to shrug hubby's voice. so i lied. i took money and spent it when i wouldnt have normally

we donated the money in different spirit.

if it was my money, i could easily let it go.

will, it is reputation more than money i would imagine.

for each person it will be different

[goodboy]

35. I only wish you would've talked to Andy before posting this. (nt)

[meganmonkey]

66. I'll second that sentiment, goodboy.

:hi:

[Zenlitened]

37. "Andy is apparently a hell of a lot less ill than ... led to believe."

Apparently? Or actually? What are the facts here?

:shrug:

[WilliamPitt]

42. This is what I am seeking

and yes, doing it in public. The statements about pancreatic cancer, Whipples and $50k were public. I made them so.

[merh]

51. So, have you asked him for further documentation?

You could go to the source, investigate your concerns and then report it back to DU. Isn't that what a good journalist (not to mention a friend) would do?

Will, you have to get some sleep. Your lack of sleep is impairing your judgment. This is not an attack, it is an observation and you have let all of the Lounge know you have terrible insomnia. Deal with that, for your sake and for those who trust your judgment. Right now, you aren't using any imho.

[WilliamPitt]

62. I slept like a baby last night

Went to bed at 8pm, slept through the night.

I am clearer today than I have been in weeks, actually.

[merh]

67. Glad to hear it

If you are so clear, why have you not asked Andy for the documentation so that you can find answers? Why not ask him the questions and then report it here?

[patricia92243]

39. Skinner was going to get in touch with Andy and get him to give his

permission to his doctors to discuss his situation.

Then he (Skinner) was going to tell us here at DU what the doctors said.

What is the status of that?

[smartvoter]

48. Last I heard it was on hold until he is admitted. nt

[Mojorabbit]

44. I hope you discussed

this with andy before posting here. I know from personal experience thaat you can get several diagnosis before they narrow it down to the correct one. My father had several before they finally opened him up and decided it was indeed metastatic cancer and they thought it was a benign tumor before hand with no spreading which turned out to be wrong even after several MRI's.

I had several dx myself before they hit on the correct one after more and more sophisticated tests.

So while he may have been given a dx of cancer in the beginning it may now be a encapsulated tumor which may or may not be cancerous which they will NOT know till they get in there and biopsy it.

I don't know Andy but I am a retired nurse who donated.

So I really really hope you have spoken with him first before posting this.

[salvorhardin]

49. Andy said

it had been biopsied back in February, I believe. :shrug:

I'll try to find the link...


On edit: Sorry, my bad it was March 23.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3325922&mesg_id=3330240

[Goldmund]

56. Not only that,

but I believe I remember seeing Andy reply to Will's blog post to say "thank you". Not "thank you, and by the way, I don't actually have pancreatic cancer". Let alone that there were a million posts on DU which used the words "pancreatic cancer" and they were only contradicted this morning, in a sort of offhand fashion.

[salvorhardin]

68. It wasn't just here

it was all over the net. Mike Malloy, Thom Hartmann, the Al Franken message boards, the Randi Rhodes message boards, numerous other websites. Always it was posted that Andy had pancreatic cancer which has a less than 10% survival rate and not pancreatitis (or whatever it is he is supposed to have now) which has a greater than 95% survival rate.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Andy+Stephenson%22+cancer&btnG=Search

[WillowTree]

47. Hopefully this will make you feel a little better, Will.

From the Johns Hopkins web site.

http://pathology2.jhu.edu/pancreas/surgery.cfm

and

http://pathology2.jhu.edu/pancreas/whipple.cfm

Looks as if what you're describing is classified as pancreatic cancer and a Whipple procedure would be appropriate if metastasis has not yet occurred.

[WilliamPitt]

53. Couple of things

According to what I have seen, the Whipple is not going to be preformed now.

The diagnosos I was told in the last weeks was difinitive: Pancreatic cancer needing a Whipple. That was the basis of the calls for help, that it was immediate and life-and-death.

Like I said, I don't doubt that Andy has a tumor requiring treatment.

But I am not at all sure that it required $50 grand at Johns Hopkins. It could have been pretty much free at a Seattle hospital.

I need to know why I was told otherwise, why I was allowed to say otherwise.

[WillowTree]

57. I thought someone said...

....that the surgery was scheduled for sometime next week. Is that in question now, too?

[WilliamPitt]

60. Who knows

This has been bouncing around like a ping pong ball. First it was $25k, then $50k, then the checks got lost, then Andy posts a thread about writing a 'hot check,' then he deletes his own thread, Skinner has not posted any clarifications, I don't even know what the surgery date is anymore, and now the whole diagnosis has changed.

[MissB]

75. Will

I don't see where it has been bouncing around. :shrug: From what I've gleaned (and I haven't even talked to Andy. Ever.):

It was always $50k. We all knew the $25k was the upfront cost.

Yes, the checks ended up on the someone else's desk.

Is it surprising that someone wrote a check that they didn't have money for, but knew that they'd have money for, and then freaked a bit and posted about it on a message board and then thought the better of it?

Skinner posted a clarification last week, in which he said that when Andy was admitted, we'd have more "evidence".

I'm sure I've read a thread around here that stated the surgery is scheduled for May 26 or sometime next week.

I don't know if the diagnosis has changed. You don't know if it has changed.

DU has been weirded out lately for various reasons. The tone around here isn't exactly friendly. I don't see your original post helping. Talk to Andy. It is the only way you're going to get answers. Asking around here won't help.

I get why you're bent about this. You put your reputation on the line. I can dismiss any discomfort over this issue because I just sent money that I gave freely without expectations. You have more to lose, but this isn't the way to address it.

*lecture over*

[Maat]

77. I am very glad that I participated in an effort to get the correct ..

diagnosis.

JH is the place where one goes for an accurate diagnosis; they have experts that know the worst type of situation, and are the few that know how to treat that in the best possible way, and how to tell if there is no problem ... and, fortunately, how to accurately diagnosis everything in between.

Thank God that we got the best experts in the land to take a look at the situation and act accordingly (for our friend).

I went through an experience; Poor Doctor (who everyone thought was a good one) told me that I most likely had cancer - even after expensive analysis. Fortunately, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps and got to Excellent Doctor, who was able to tell me that what I had was harmless. Having been through that experience, I'm sure glad I got to someone who knew what they were doing.

So, God bless all.

We did something rare and spectacular!

God bless Andy! I hope the news is good!

Now, onto helping the next person who really needs it ...

(In my faith, we believe that as you give, so shall you receive, and that there is abundance in the World for all.)

[Misunderestimator]

96. I'm going to ask the bad question here then...

Did you misrepresent what you had already received from a Poor doctor as a diagnosis in order to raise the funds to afford to go to the Excellent one? I think that that is the bottom line question. And I haven't seen an answer.

[Maat]

139. Well, I was scared speechless right after Bad Doc gave me ..

the diagnosis. I didn't what was going on until the end of the whole episode. And I did have a mini-op (a D&C - vacuuming out) - I still don't know if that was necessary.

FORTUNATELY, I had a savings account and health insurance.

If it turns out that I donated to send him to the best facility with the best experts only to find out that things were not as serious as thought at first - it will cost the same amount of money to open him up, remove it, and do the analysis either eay - then I will be HAPPY that there is good news.

Just my humble opinion.

My good doc told me that they never know until they open you up, remove it, and sent it, in its entirety, to the lab for diagnostics.

So, let's see this thorough!

[Misunderestimator]

170. I don't disagree... I would still have donated no matter what the

upfront reason was, because I am lucky enough to be able to afford to give here and there for things and people I believe in. There are others though that probably gave money that they couldn't really afford because they thought it was life or death, because it was advertised as such. Who knows how many people gave money who now have some problem that they would love to be able to afford to go to the best physicians for diagnosis? Will has a lot more invested in this than I do, and I think he's justified in asking for some clarification. That's all.

[Maat]

200. I hear you.

The whole thing was such a profound experience.

Honestly, I went home right before seeing Good Doc and wrote my will.

I'm forever grateful (should I say grateful on a daily basis) to be alive.

I'm more compassionate.

So, good has come out of the whole experience.

And much good will come out of Andy's.

Hopefully, we will be able to highlight our miserable healthcare system that puts me to shame. Our wealth - and European countries and Canada have superior health systems (at least in terms of getting everyone some care).

[Horse with no Name]

119. That's why medicine isn't an exact science

There are multifactorial things involved.
Something can present one way then another.
I had been diagnosed with a rare immune disorder and had been treated for several years for it--very expensively I might add.
I was seeing some of the best doc's in the country for it and was even being followed by a physician at the NIH.
There was NO doubt about my diagnosis.
Then, I needed a surgery that was only performed at 2 hospitals in the entire country.
I had an entire set of new docs. I had some complications from the surgery and had to readmitted twice.
Because it was time for my IV medication that I took once every 3 weeks, they had to bring one of their immunologists in to prescribe it since it was very expensive.
Now--this doc WHO HAD NEVER SEEN ME before this time, tells me that he thought I had been misdiagnosed. He said that by looking at my blood work and blood smears and test results--that I appeared to have lymphoma. I freaked out!
I had been treated for the immune disorder for years. Every month--I saw a battery of doctors. I saw a pulmonologist, ENT doc, Infectious Disease, cardiologist and an oncologist/hematologist.
Every month for years!
Anyway, this doc scheduled me to see him in his office upon discharge from the hospital for follow test for lymphoma.
I was so upset--I was discharged on a Sunday and when I got home, I called my oncologist AT HOME crying and told him what I had been told.
He was shocked that a doctor at a major hospital would rebut a confirmed diagnosis in such a short period of time.
He then told me that he had PERSONALLY viewed every blood smear of mine every month for 5 years and had never seen anything indicative of lymphoma. He said that it was very likely that with the liver involvement that I had that I was hospitalized with, that it was presenting in my blood. He was more than glad to run all the other scans that the doctor wanted just to allay my fears if I wanted.
The point of this diatribe is...every doctor is very likely to see something different--even the best in the country will likely disagree at times.
The ONLY confirmation of diagnosis will NOT come before surgery--but after surgery with positive pathological diagnosis.
IMHO--that is the only time we should start doubting what we have been told.
All we have to go by is what Andy has told us.
All Andy has to go by is what he has been told by many physicians.
That is your disparity--not Andy.

[EFerrari]

136. Hold up.

The deposit was 25 according to the doc's office. When the folder was sent to the hospital, they wanted it all. That was in my posts.

The checks did get lost. MissWaverly found them on Christopher Parker's desk in the mailroom. Call him and ask.

The surgery date is 5/26 unless there is a cancellation, so Andy is supposed to stay in Baltimore.

The whole diagnosis has not changed.

Any more questions? (Caution, I know nothing about sports except baseball :) )

[WilliamPitt]

140. "The whole diagnosis has not changed."

Excuse me. I was told by Andy and others that the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer requiring immediate attention, a condition with a very low survival rate. Now it is pancreatitis with a very high survival rate.

So yes, the diagnosis has indeed changed.

[EFerrari]

Which medical professional gave you the latter? n/t

[WilliamPitt]

158. So it isn't pancreatitis?

To answer your question, I got it from someone who has been spending time with Andy, and got the diagnosis from him while in his presence. I found out about it when I read it buried in a thread here.

Do you admit or deny that 'pancreatic cancer' and 'whipple' and 'immediate' have been the watchwords for fundraising around here for weeks.

Do you admit or deny that this is now not the case.

[EFerrari]

164. Will, I gave you the infomation I have.

Yes, those were the terms used around here for weeks. That is right.

And I know Andy is scheduled to have a whipple as soon as a slot comes open. Let me put this another way: If this wasn't urgent, why would JOHNS HOPKINS ask Andy to stay in Baltimore in case of a cancellation?

The new information about the tumor was a result of a test done on THURSDAY, Will. A test that would not have been done in all likelihood in SEATTLE. Are you following this?

[WilliamPitt]

172. Wait

And I know Andy is scheduled to have a whipple as soon as a slot comes open. Let me put this another way: If this wasn't urgent, why would JOHNS HOPKINS ask Andy to stay in Baltimore in case of a cancellation?

Is it a whipple or a 'mini-whipple'? I googled mini-whipple and nothing came up. Googled it three different ways. As for why JH asked him to stay, I'd like to know who said that was the case.

The new information about the tumor was a result of a test done on THURSDAY, Will. A test that would not have been done in all likelihood in SEATTLE. Are you following this?

They can't do this test in Seattle? Why was I told pancreatic cancer and whipple several times by Andy and others for weeks?

Are *you* following this?

[EFerrari]

183. Yes, Will, I am.

I'm not a doctor. The doc seems to be hoping for what he calls a "mini" whipple, which will cost the same.

The good news is that the cancer doesn't seem to have spread beyond the tumor. I don't think they can know for sure until they look at it.

I don't know if they can do a 3D CAT scan in Seattle. They didn't.

[salvorhardin]

216. Excuse me, but a CAT scan by its very nature is 3D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_scan

Computed axial tomography (CAT), computer-assisted tomography, computed tomography, CT, or body section roentgenography is the process of using digital processing to generate a three-dimensional image of the internals of an object from a large series of two-dimensional X-ray images taken around a single axis of rotation. The word "tomography" is derived from the Greek tomos (slice) and graphia (describing).

[EFerrari]

222. Good to know. You might pass this on to the guys at JH

who administered the scan. :)

[salvorhardin]

245. ...but a CAT scan was done in Seattle

according to Andy back in March.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3325922

Andy_Stephenson
Tue Mar-22-05 07:04 PM
Original message
I saw the pictures of my tumor today...

I have decided to call it "Bev".

It is very round and black...very scary looking.

...so he had a "3D" CAT scan back in March, in Seattle, which should have shown definitively where the tumor mass was located.

[EFerrari]

252. Yes. And they did a different kind of scan on Thursday

(if I'm getting the day right) that gave the doc a better picture of what to expect when he goes in.

Again, I'm not a doctor. "3D" is the term the testor used when he talked to Andy about it.

[Maat]

Sfexpat2000 .... I believe everything you say ...

and I understand what you are trying to say.

And, if what you say is true, then I am even more glad that we got to the right facility.

This is the only place I trust to figure out what is really going on ... and give the appropriate care.

Thanks again for your effort.

I'm proud to have been a part of such a great effort.

I'm praying for the best news ... it is encapsulated, on a place that means that Andy has a good chance of living, is easily removable with minimum ramifications, etc.

I'll be very happy then.

Peace and Blessings,

[EFerrari]

246. Thank you. Let's get our champagne ready.

Because Andy is going to make it, and everyone who came together to make his surgery possible will deserve a big hug and a toast. :hi:

[Maat]

253. I have it on ice!

Look, there was never a more grateful person alive when I got the good news about my supposed tumor (turned out to be a harmless cyst).

1-1/2 later, just had an exam - it's all good (although .. the doctor lectured me about my weight and ordered a cholesterol test - but I can live with that).

I will be so happy if things just turn out to be much less serious (in terms of long-term prognosis) than we thought.

[EFerrari]

258. Me, too! One would think we'd all be. I've got to run

an errand and will be back shorty. I hope we can calm down a bit.

[Maat]

292. Good luck on the errand!

I just sent my spouse to get me lunch.

Where did the day go?

[merh]

61. From what you have read, 3rd hand on a message board?

You haven't spoken to the source? What a journalist you are! :sarcasm:

[belladonna]

101. I donated because of what I read, third hand

On a message board. What does that make me?

[EFerrari]

178. Not thirdhand, only secondhand, lol

because I was talking to both doctor and hospital. :)

[patricia92243]

79. Son had cancer. TIME is of the essence. Hurry, hurry, hurry. No

fiddle-faddling around for several MONTHS. Doctors would have had a fit if we had waited DAYS much less months.

[Willy Lee]

90. I just don't get this.

You gave out of the goodness of your heart, to help a friend.

You are so sorry about it now? Ask for your money back.

I will donate to make up the difference.

This just seems so bad to me.

[lukasahero]

122. I don't think Will is worried about his own money

I think he's concerned about his reputation, the fact that he encouraged others to contribute and the fact that because he encouraged others to give to Andy's cause, money that could have been given to this other activist wasn't available.

[Willy Lee]

141. OH- so he wants all 50 thousand back because he has found a BETTER cause?

:grr:

So much for friendship.

Andy- if you are reading this- I hope it is NOT pancreatic cancer, I hope that whatever surgery is required is successful, and I pray for a speedy recovery and happy times ahead.

[comsymp]

150. Way to twist words!

:grr:

So much for reading for comprehension. Will apparently wants the same thing that folks here were so mercilessly flamed over last week. Clarification. How is that so hard to understand!?

[WilliamPitt]

151. Where did I ask for any money back?

Please.

[Willy Lee]

163. Will- not your words.

"...the fact that because he encouraged others to give to Andy's cause, money that could have been given to this other activist wasn't available."

No, you don't want your money back. BUt the tone here has become one of- Andy has deceived you and now you have another friend who has cancer and the money could have gone to his treatment.

Way to twist words? Exactly. That is exactly why I think Will should be looking for answers by asking Andy directly and not with asking 60,000+ members of DU what his prognosis is. But apparently he will not discuss with Andy becasue that is what got him into this mess to begin with.

These compassionate hearts baffle me.

[Misunderestimator]

156. No, he is concerned that the cause was misrepresented.

And that he by association misrepresented it. And that the money received was based on the knowledge that he had pancreatic cancer. If that fact was used as a basis for promoting the cause, and if that fact turns out not to be a fact, and if the misrepresenting of it in all the places Will mentioned was never corrected by anyone, then this is a bigger thing than just wanting money back. It could very well affect other good causes in the FUTURE if people have the experience of donating to something that turns out to have been exaggerated, which this hopefully will not turn out to be.

That's what I get from this.

[seabeyond]

214. exactly, skinner and this site third donation

in just a couple weeks. i am feeling guilt. lol lol. should just get my card this moment to give to skinner. there are a lot of places to give. lots

[Misunderestimator]

251. to clarify...

I give to a lot of causes, Andy and DU included, and I have no regrets about it. However, some people who gave may not have really been able to afford to give, but gave because they were told this was life or death. There could be people who gave and now have some condition that would also benefit from being able to afford to see the best specialist in the country, but they can't afford it, and they wouldn't be able to raise the money to do it. It's not about why anyone gave really, it's about honesty.

(Had to read your post a few times, but with the 'lol' I thought I should clarify, in case you misread me... or something.)

[seabeyond]

270. i agree with you

my husband doesnt contribute to all of this. over the last year i have been giving a lot to democratic party and others, neither of us are democrats, and (wincing) he doesnt know. bad me

if i was earning the money would be easier for me. just i have always taken care of myself with my money, being a house wife now, spending money, i see it differently. my own personal to do

if it is a surgery to remove a tumor, seattle has fine hospitals.

pancreatic cancer, life and death is a different story. that is why i donated

[Misunderestimator]

285. I saw your other post about that after this one...

I agree that it will be a different story for everyone who contributed. For me, it's not a hardship and I have no regrets and would have contributed anyway. For others, I think there could be many valid reasons they would have chosen not to contribute, not the least of which is that they cannot afford insurance themselves.

(What you did was wonderful... don't feel bad about it. You put some positive light in the world by contributing from your own hardship. :hug:)

[im10ashus]

154. Well this is no way to bolster his reputation, IMHO.

Who is William Pitt anyway?

[displacedtexan]

316. Did you just escape from the 7th circle of right wing hell?

William Rivers Pitt is one of the best writers in the country.

I do not (repeat: NOT) state that lightly.

Google him and read his essays. They're keepers.

[question everything]

307. This is something that I was wondering, too

In the posts that flyarm posted, the surgery was first scheduled for June, but then the physician at Johns Hopkins got the medical file, he decided that it needed to be done immediately. Hence our mobilization to gather money quickly.

And as we have been hearing that his surgery has been postponed to the end of May - almost to when he was originally scheduled - I kept asking why the physician that sounded the alarm does not intervene.

So, yes, I, too am questioning the urgency, though not the actual mobilization and donations.

And again, someone needs to talk to Andy directly and to ask for clarifications. He was very open previously, as the post posted above, so why not now?

[Modem Butterfly]

55. But such surgery could easily be performed in Seattle...

The $50,000 was needed to cover surgery at Johns Hopkins because the survival rate for pancreatic cancer was higher, not just surviving the surgery.

[TornadoTN]

69. Really Disturbing

I was right here along with so many others when PayPal refused to send the check. Yes, we were all together up in arms ready to storm PayPal to get Andy his money, because it was told to us that it is a "life or death matter".

I know here in my corner of Tennessee, pancreatic cancer is treated and operated on. I also know several people who went through procedures and the radiation to get treated, only to be left holding the bill at the end because of their lack of insurance. I watched a close friend and co-worker die because of his inability to seek out aggressive treatment, let alone pay for it. That's what really turned me on to this matter and why I donated to the cause. I felt good that I did it, but at the same time I wondered if this was all "on the level", so to speak.

I understand the frustration, but sadly enough, all we get are more questions.

[Horse with no Name]

50. Just an FYI

This seems very plausibly what is going on. It is very consistent with what has been posted.

http://brighamrad.harvard.edu/Cases/bwh/hcache/43/full.html

[silverlib]

52. You deserve answers

I donated as much as I could, not a whole lot, but I can tell you that I donated based on your support and the support of other posters that I trust emphatically.

That said, if your support, and that of others, is found to have been manipulated in any way, I do not hold you or them accountable.
Could I say, "Shame on you for trusting a friend?" or "Shame on you for being taken for a ride by someone you cared about?" That would be ridiculous, because that is the part of you I admire when reading your books, your articles and your posts on DU. It's part of your humanness. I don't want to see you lose any of the attributes that make you the wonderful person that you are. That's the biggest challenge here - and it's a whopper, but none of us should lose the qualities of caring and sharing with others.

I hope the answerers are satisfactory and that the money was used for the purposes it was given - to save his life.

Thanks for all you do to try and make this world a better place to live!

[KaliTracy]

63. I'm not a Dr. and did donate, and don't know a lot -- however in these

6 cell tissue type cell screens -- Whipple Procedure is indicated 4 out of the 6. I think it best to get an accurate diagnosis-- type of cancer -- which could have been done by contacting Andy, perhaps.

http://arrayit.com/TissuePDF/A717.pdf



I happen to have a pretty big "intuition" -- and all mine seemed to say was that a person was in trouble. I couldn't give a lot -- but I did donate.

[undeterred]

70. I'm going to step out on a limb here

In cancer, its the pathology that tells the whole truth. That's why biopsies are done. I'm not sure what procedures Andy had or whether its even possible to biopsy the region where his tumor is. Sometimes a diagnosis is more like a working hypothesis based on films, symptoms and bloodwork.

I knew someone who had a Whipple procedure at a major medical center 25 years ago. His tumor had to be removed but it was benign, and he is fine. I'm not sure the doctors really knew what they were dealing with until they opened him up, took out the tumor, and gave it to the pathologist. He may have thought he had pancreatic cancer, as people often call anything having to do with an unbiopsied tumor cancer.

I am hoping this all turns out to be just a misunderstanding of what was communicated.

[The_Casual_Observer]

71. Next time, get the facts before you start a fund drive

That way you won't have to be embarrassed publicly by some kind of misunderstandings. My guess is that there was a lot of hysteria surrounding this thing, and not a whole lot else. So, maybe they thought it was worse than it turned out to be, good deal for Andy!
It wouldn't be the first time it happened.

[Lerkfish]

72. FWIW, when I had cancer surgery in 1985

(I'm only offering this as an insight to the bewildering process)

I was told many different things by the same doctor at various stages, as they discovered new things or eliminated other things. At first, my enlarged testicle migh be just an infection, then a tumor...when they operated, it had three different types of fast-moving cancers, so then they decided I should either have chemo or remove all the lymph nodes in my abdomen. When they did the MRI, there was no evidence of cancer in the nodes, it was a precautionary move...but when they did the surgery just days later, four nodes were found to be cancerous.

I have no information on Andy's case and have been quiet up until now, but I wanted to inject a little steadying experience that Doctors can change their diagnosis over time with new information, or the patient can have an incomplete understanding of the diagnosis that can come into greater clarity with subsequent conversations with the doctor.

so, in my mind, the things that make you concerned (apparent shifting diagnosis) are not, in and of themselves, automatic causes for concern.

Again, I know little of this particular situation. But I would advise, as others have in this thread, that the ONLY place you're going to get an answer to that is from Andy himself, and I would suggest directing your efforts in that direction to arrive at the truth.

Good luck! I think this whole things has been tragic and perplexing, and have avoided contributing until just now, when I felt I had something worthwhile to add.

[cruadin]

93. Thanks for your post.

I have been following this ongoing situation, and I too find it tragic and perplexing.

My father has been dealing with several different cancers for several years now, and I can attest to the maddeningly shifting diagnoses that accompany the ongoing situation. I think sometimes doctors offer their "best informed guess" as to the condition, but that as the situation continues, new information and new test results become available to either eliminate or confirm various diagnoses. This alters the course of recommended treatment from what was originally discussed.

I'm not sure if that is the case with the Andy situation, but it is a possibility.

BTW I wish you well. :)

[Lerkfish]

133. thanks, I'm a cancer survivor (knocks wood)

[MuseRider]

74. It is possible

that nobody knew the exact diagnosis until JH ran the last set of tests? I read them when he posted them and my first thought was, "Whew, this doesn't look as bad as had be anticipated!" Often that is the case, different films and tests show different things and not all hospitals have all the latest. This is not entirely out of the ordinary.

I think you may still have to wait a while. I doubt Andy can answer much right now because he is very ill and the patient is often so distracted by fear and discomfort that they can't always tell you exactly what the doctor said. That is why everyone needs someone to advocate for them.

It is possible there are just too many people with too little medical knowledge for anything to come out correctly right now.

I would take a wait and see. I know your reputation is very important especially because you involved the organizations. The important thing to me right now is that you cared, you took the initiative and that is always a good thing.

The rest will come out as we know more.

[merh]

84. Thank you for considering this logically, looking at the time line.

Yes, if I am not mistaken, there were tests done at Johns Hopkins, after the fund raiser, after the screw up with the checks and the postponement of the surgery, that gave the doctors more detailed results regarding Andy's condition.

I've never known someone who cares about another person that is upset because the tests show that the friend is not as sick as thought, though the friend is still very sick. :shrug: Just seems odd to me. :cry:

[MuseRider]

97. I don't think that is the case

and I don't think this would have come up at all if we had not been visited by someone who wanted to throw a nasty bone at us.

I have not followed along as well as I should have to actually be responding but I have no doubt that Will and everyone else who was thrown by the questions love Andy very much and care deeply what happens to him.

This is just the way of medicine. It is not nearly as precise sometimes as people think it ought to be.

Andy needs ONE person who has some kind of medical knowledge or someone who is not afraid to stand in front of the doctor or nurse and not let them leave the room until they are totally clear on everything and you must often block their exit to get that.

Whatever, he has many who care about him and he knows it I hope and I also hope that he gets his surgery and gets this cleared up quickly. I do not like the fact that he is having to wait yet again.

[merh]

113. As Will is a journalist. he knows how to go about investigating

this himself and finding the answers (or so one would hope). To do it in this fashion is wrong, imho.

[MuseRider]

146. I'll support them both.

Having been an ICU nurse I have seen the way something like this can blast way out into craziness with little reason it just does because it is frightening and very complicated. As a patient I have sat and listened to the doctor give my diagnosis and never heard a word he said. As a friend and family member I have been misinformed, freaked out, spread inaccurate news, all those things happen. It is the way it is. So I am on both of their sides, not that they are separate. Will has different concerns right now and is accountable for his past actions based on what seems at this point to thankfully not be the case. If there is info here or support here for him I think he should come here and I think (hope) that Andy will understand.

[merh]

155. But, Will also knows Andy.

If he has these questions, he should go to Andy, ask for the records and resolve his issues, not drag it all up again.

It is just that simple.

[MuseRider]

173. I really do not want to argue

with you. Like I said, I have not followed all the threads about this. Andy is the last person right now who should have to deal with this. Who has been closest to him? Who is working as his advocate right now with the docs and the hospital. THAT is the person who needs to step up and give Will the info he needs. It seems there is no one person taking this roll and that looks to me to be the problem. Will deserves to know what the heck is going on. One of the people who is with him needs to step up and do this. This will all come out fine once information is gathered, understood and the questions are answered.

[merh]

182. Then don't argue.

It is Will's place as Andy's friend and as a journalist to properly investigate the issues that concern him.

Those who are closest to Andy have to have Andy's permission to release the information. So, it still involves Andy, as Andy is the man with the illness.

For every question answered, there is another one asked. Andy posted the diagnostic report and the cashier checks. Do we get a digital of the removed tumor and a copy of the biopsy report next?

[MuseRider]

196. Well

I was NOT arguing, I thought you were! I meant all I said as a means to an end that helped everyone.

Andy should not have to field questions now. His advocate would be that person with the permission to do this for him. That is the only thing Andy needs to be doing besides taking care of himself, getting ONE PERSON to handle this information. This would never have happened if this had been done and if you have never been involved in something like this, and many have not, he most likely did not know this.

It seems that there are Andy people and Will people here. As an Andy/Will person here I was just trying to add my experience, and I have LOTS of it, to help out.

Edit for spelling

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

80. This thread is fodder for the dark side at CU.

Thanks Will.

[Goldmund]

85. Please.

Let's organize ourselves according to what they say or don't say.

Maybe we should order them a pizza while we're at it.

:eyes:

[comsymp]

138. Pizza sounds like a great idea

However, I'm not making the keg run~ well, maybe for Magenta.

[benburch]

215. Oh Geeze....

I just looked.

Wish I hadn't.

I am sure every mole they have is on this thread already.

Can I go become a cloistered monk now, please?

[WilliamPitt]

88. Who gives a damn

You are talking about a bunch of people who spend their time tracking every little post put up here. I have a few bigger things to worry about then the opinions of people who don't apparently have anything better to do with their time.

[Catherine Vincent]

111. I agree. And I don't give a damn either.

[belladonna]

92. And it's his fault that this has become fodder for CU???

Seems to me it turned into fodder about a week ago, through no fault of Wills. Everything about this fundraiser could have been handled differently, so step up if you're one of the organizers and take your share of the blame.

[Catherine Vincent]

107. No need to get protective of Will.

It's not warranted. I have nothing against Will.

[belladonna]

127. Protective of Will?

Not really, but pointing out that he just provided fodder for CU wasn't really warranted either, all things considered :shrug:

[SmokingJacket]

82. Then why did *I* know from the beginning where the tumor was?

I understood -- because of consistent information given on this website! -- that there was a tumor surrounding the bile duct, right near the pancreas. This is what I read time and time again.

A recent test showed that this tumor was encapsulated, but that information was unknown before.

And I gave money because he has NO HEALTH INSURANCE and he does GOOD WORK and I want him to get well.

There's no betrayal here.

Nothing good will come out of turning this into a war, will. NOTHING.

[WilliamPitt]

89. You weren't on the phone with him and others

being told differently. You didn't post to the far corners 'pancreatic cancer' and 'whipple' without anyone correcting you.

[SmokingJacket]

129. I see that what you're upset about is your reputation.

Actually, helping Andy the way you have -- even if some of the terminology is fuzzy and the diagnosis keeps changing -- has shown you to be a really decent, stand-up guy. It has done much good for your reputation in my household (only place I can speak authoritatively about!). My husband and I have always respected your work, but going out on a limb for a sick friend the way you did really made us begin to think of you as more than a good journalist; we started thinking of you as one of the liberal heroes. I'm not joking or flattering -- we really did talk about it.

Anyone who's gone through an illness knows how slippery information can be. NO ONE will hold it against you for getting it not quite right, if that is what happened.

But... your calling this a betrayal and showing more concern for your rep than for your friendships will leave a bad taste in people's mouths, at best.

At worst it will encourage people to cling tightly to their wallets when asked to help in the future.

[Green Mountain Dem]

86. Will, I guess I understand...

your concerns and disappointment, but FWIW, about a month ago I was told by my primary care doc that I had lung cancer based on the reading of my chest X-Ray. I was not totally surprised as I have been in a lot of pain for the past 6 months. A follow-up cat scan appeared to confirm the diagnosis and indicated a nodule in my lung.
Well, at that time I was ready to cancel Xmas and get my shit in order as I am not a candidate for surgery because I also have congestive heart failure! I posted on this board that I had lung cancer and I suppose I was looking for support from a community that has become so important to me during the past few years. It was comforting to me to receive positive messages from many DU'ers.

A PET scan was scheduled to determine if the cancer had spread to the lymph nodes and I was prepared for the worst. The PET scan results showed NO MASSES ANYWHERE, INCLUDING THE LUNG..NO CANCER!!
The nodule in the lung turns out to be a case of mild emphysema, and the pain has now been diagnosed as fibromyalgia!

So, although I'm not sure whether I'm happier having fibro than lung cancer, I have lost all confidence with traditional medical care because so many docs really fuck up when it comes to diagnosing a medical condition!

Perhaps Andy's original diagnosis was flawed, but I am happy to hear that it may not be as bad as he, and we, were led to believe. I guess my point is, after my own personal experience, I would blame the medical profession for the changed diagnosis.

As for my own situation, there was a silver lining...I got the new car I wanted that my wife wouldn't allow until she thought I had cancer. It was soooooo easy...But Honey, I'm dying and I really want this car, it will be my last! Boy, is she pissed now!!

[qanda]

99. That's great!

I'm so happy that things have turned out well for you. I think what Will is upset about is the fact that he put his name on the line for the diagnosis of deadly pancreatic cancer and he has to find out that the diagnosis has changed from an obscure thread. I would think that the news that Andy wasn't as sick as we once thought would be a reason to celebrate and perhaps it deserved a thread of its own to let all involved know.

[TornadoTN]

108. Agreed

I think that is probably one of the main points: We all have become so engulfed in this matter, that we would like to be kept in the loop with some information.

[Maat]

118. Yes. I agree with you.

I donated because someone needed to go to the best facility to get expertise as to what was in (what was happening).

Over $50,000 was needed so that goal could be accomplished. I donated - twice. I stand proudly by that.

They will not know what IT is until they open Andy up and get IT out.

That is what I donated for - this analysis and treatment will be done at the best facility - and we will really find out what is going on - and it will be resolved.

No one is paying for his lodging - ergo the fact that he had to travel to the best facility is relevant only to Andy.

So, Andy, stay strong! We will see this through. Do not get discouraged! Turn out the negativity!

Know that you are in my prayers. Take it easy.

Peace and Blessings,

[acmejack]

123. I must agree with GMD

I was in the same boat, the best neurologist in town told me I was done for within the year. Miraculously (or not), I am doing great 3 years later, confounding the medicos. Diagnosis is an art, the corrective measures are often the easy part of the process. I can't get too upset about someone beating the diagnosis & being found to be in a better position than they were told.

[Mairead]

91. My assumption was that it is still at the 'treatable' stage

which is, of course, the best time to treat something. My understanding of pancreas malignancy (which is only a layperson's, of course) is that there's a sort of cliff's-edge effect. If you go over the cliff, then your chances of survival don't degrade along a time slope, they go more or less abruptly from 90% to 5% (or numbers to that effect).

The whole point of donating, I would have thought, was to prevent Andy from slipping over the edge of that cliff in the first place, not to wait til he's in the air and then try to catch him before he goes splat.

Or was that not the goal?

[WilliamPitt]

95. The point

is that I was told several times definitively that this was an immediate life-or-death situation. Immediate. No waiting.

This is not the case.

For those asking why I don't talk to Andy, I say: Because talking to Andy is what got me into this in the first place.

[merh]

109. Then how do you plan on solving this?

By tossing allegations and thumping all over this thread and trying to make yourself fell better by putting another down?

Do your job as a journalist, don't come to us, go to the source, ask for permission to see his records, review them with an expert and find the answers you so need to feel better about yourself, because that is all you are worried about, the hell to your friend or anyone at DU.

Do your job, find the facts and come back to DU and report your findings as a good journalist should do.


BTW - sorry Andy might live after all, guess that takes the fun out of heroism and friendship!

[XanaDUer]

131. Where is Andy?

Would he not be in and around JH Hospital still, right? If he is still around there, then the whole thing must be legit? They wanted to rush him into surgery, then the check got lost.

I must confess I am finding this entire thing confusing-but the desire to help someone is never a bad thing.


Soemone else mentioned that diagnoses change as the process goes on. I experienced this with my mother's illness.

[Mairead]

147. "I was told...this was an immediate life-or-death situation"

So why are you upset? Isn't it good news that he might not have been teetering on the edge of that cliff?

I can't speak to your priorities, of course, Will, but speaking for myself I would feel upset if I had been misled into donating to what everyone knew upfront was a cause already lost. I might be simple-minded, but to me the whole point of such a firedrill is solve-the-problem, not make-a-gesture.

So I'm very happy about the idea that our donations will (we can hope!) have done the job they were meant to do: save Andy's life.

That it might be save-his-life by not letting the tumor hang around long enough to start having little tumors is just frosting on the cake--it means he can be back to work that much quicker, the stomach-clenching waiting to see whether they got it all will be shorter, all that good stuff.

[Green Mountain Dem]

229. Will....."the point"....

is that you rushed to help a fellow human being, doesn't matter who he is, or what relationship you might have with him. Doesn't even matter if he lied to you...YOU REACTED TO A CRY FOR HELP!!!
How the fuck could anyone criticize you for a humanitarian response to a fellow human being crying for help?

Your concern for the impact on your reputation is not warranted, and anyone who would question your motives for your role in this situation would be more suspect to me than Andy.

My sig line says it all..

If this fuckin world would shift to being more concerned about their fellow man, and a little less to an invisible being up in the clouds, we would not be having this discussion!

Corporations like Banks, and Insurance and Drug companies fuck me over everyday, but I go on, if Andy fucked me too, I go on..I thought it was the right thing to do to donate. I am a humanitarian and I will continue to respond to any cry for help from my fellow man and accept the consequences. Fool me once..shame on you...fool me twice..shame on me, but I can still live with it when my motivations are to help my neighbor.

Sorry Will, for your feelings about this matter, BUT NO ONE CAN LEGITIMATELY QUESTION YOUR MOTIVES FOR YOUR INVOLVEMENT. You saw a need and you reacted from the heart..why would you be upset for trying to help?

[Spazito]

94. I am just glad you didn't put being a 'good friend' anywhere

in your post. A good friend would not post a screed based on what someone other than that friend said without talking to them first. A 'good friend' would wait for proof of 'betrayal' before threatening "hell to pay". It's a good thing you didn't profess to being a 'good friend'.

[Zenlitened]

98. Yup.

:crazy:

[im10ashus]

103. Good Point!

As other DUers have posted, he had no insurance, he needed help. Should be the end of subject. It's a serious health issue and it needs immediate attention. I understand your anguish in not knowing exactly what is going on, but let us not lose sight of the initial problem, lack in insurance.

[noiretextatique]

135. amen. surely, there is another way to deal with this

instead of fanning the flames of suspicion here. it's really quite sad.

[qanda]

181. Why is Will Pitt being made out as the villain?

Go back through the archives of this website. Will Pitt has been screaming from the high heavens about helping Andy out from the very beginning. Will has been instrumental in collecting over $50K over the internet for a person that *WILL* said was dying with pancreatic cancer and I dog double dare you to look and see if Andy has ever said, "I have pancreatic cancer". But he allowed Will to go on and on making that claim, probably knowing full well that it was not the full story. Will deserves answers and he has publicly gone to bat for Andy and yet all of those who had hundreds of kicks and recommends for the fundraising threads, would dare come here and now make it a problem with Will-- that takes a LOT OF NERVE!!!!!!!!!!

[Goldmund]

190. No shit.

[ScreamingMeemie]

193. FWIW, many were instrumental in raising money. This was crossposted

all over the internet. No one person swooped down and accomplished this. Yes, all of us did our part. ALL of us. And some of us would do it again in a heartbeat, no questions asked. Worse case scenario, a retraction and apology. Best case scenario, there is none, because a man is sick. My Dem club will think no more or no less of me for asking for help for Andy. Why? Because they are compassionate by nature.

THanks.

[qanda]

219. I understand your point

All I'm saying is that he shouldn't be criticized for demanding answers, he should be praised for being consistent at asking questions when all the facts aren't adding up.

[ScreamingMeemie]

224. I reserve my right to criticize. I've seen nothing posted to raise a flag.

:shrug:


Here's a story, I went in for stomach surgery in January...I ended up in I.C.U. with both lungs collapsed. Now,if I had no insurance and if all of you had donated and were updated with things that didn't match the initial diagnosis...and there was no one to post here on DU of my condition on an every second need to know basis, how wrong would you have been?

[Spazito]

212. My point was 'good friends' don't handle issues like this

in this manner.

[qanda]

228. Well, good friends also notify their friends

When they are no longer dying!

[Spazito]

241. Wow!

just wow.

[qanda]

257. I don't know why you just said wow, but I will add...

If one of my good friends let me go on and on believing that they were dying from one of the most deadly cancers around, I would be pissed off it they didn't see the need to tell me the "good news".

[Spazito]

278. Would you take out a full page ad that reaches thousands

to cry 'betrayal' before even talking to that friend to find out what the facts are? I know I wouldn't. The OP is the equivalent of a full page ad, virtually speaking, imo.

Edited to add: to find out what the facts are?

[qanda]

289. I get what you're saying

But don't you think Will at least deserved to get a call when all this good news came down, which apparently was last week sometime? Wouldn't a simple call, from a friend, have made this whole display unnecessary. And you have to remember that there were some other strange things going on including the post about the "hot check" that probably has Will feeling a bit vulnerable right now.

[EFerrari]

235. Well, I'll admit to having the nerve to ask Will to talk to his friend

or to Skinner or to anyone who can answer his questions BEFORE he starts a riot here.

Beth, woman of a lot of nerve.

[ScreamingMeemie]

102. I gave money, not a lot, and I'd do it again. I'm not sorry I crossposted

this to my Dem group. I'm not sorry I made calls. The intention is still there. All I can say is, walk a mile.

[Willy Lee]

106. ditto that "walk a mile" MrsGrumpy.

Until you've been there looking down those barrels, you just can't imagine what hell it is.

[Dee625]

110. Good grief.

From what I gather reading these forums
1. Andy has a tumor. (I take it that he was told it was most likely pancreatic cancer. It's not like you can know until you do surgery)
2. He has no health insurance so some good friends ask for help and this board(and others - I referred here from Kos) responds in a generous manner.
3. There is a glich so surgery is postponed. (Once he was unable to make the Tuesday date, having to wait a few weeks is quite believable for a surgeon in demand.)
4. Someone mentions he had a more advanced scan that would indicate that the tumor may not have spread. (Again, this cannot be confirmed until surgery is done, but if true is supposed to be a good thing).

People want answers. I'll bet the patient would like answers also, but the answers don't come until they do surgery and pathology. Up until then it really is educated guessing with tumors/cancer. As far as getting records from JH, he isn't technically a patient there until he is admitted (at least I know that's how it is considered at hospitals I've worked at). Most patients these days are not admitted until after surgery.

I have no proof one way or the other. But I have faith that all these people are genuine until I have reason to believe otherwise. So far I see no reason. I feel like some people will only be happy if there are either:

A. pictures of pain and suffering and a doctor's sworn statement that he only has a short time to live.
-or-
B. pictures of him smiling while enjoying mixed drinks poolside at a tropical resort out of the country.

There is a third choice. It happens to lots of people in health care.
C. (hurry up and) wait and see

[meganmonkey]

114. I just can't believe you posted this.

I just can't f*cking believe it.

You are concerned about your professional reputation, and you behave completely unprofessionally to fix it?

I don't think you are a bastard, really, that's not the word I'd pick. I think you just made a devastatingly bad decision posting this.

[erichzann]

120. Why?

[meganmonkey]

134. To make a long story short

I think he needs to talk to Andy, not get this board all riled up again.

There is a lot of history to this situation and I think Will's concerns would be better handled off the board first.

[WilliamPitt]

128. I'll take that rap

if that turns out to be the case. Better I make a devastatingly bad decision posting this than, make a devastatingly bad decision to trust when I was told cancer and whipple and then say nothing when that turns out to have been wrong.

[meganmonkey]

149. I'm not referring to whether or not your suspicions are correct

I know what I think about it, and I will keep that to myself. Others who feel similarly to me have expressed it much better than I could.

I just think the WAY you are handling this, whether you're right or not, is inappropriate and unprofessional.

[Bunny]

157. So, better to assume the worst, without checking for facts?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

161. The middle ground would be to go to people you do trust

with your questions.

[belladonna]

174. Trust is a funny thing

I hope this is all a misunderstanding and can be cleared up and that Andy gets whatever treatment he needs and lives happily ever after. That being said, I think that for you to say Will just needs to trust anyone after being left completely in the dark by you and others who've been with Andy throughout this entire thing is pushing it a bit. He should use his journalism skills to get to the truth? WHY???

I'm going through some issues with my health as well, and guess what? I went to the hospital, showed my driver's license and paid 5 bucks. Walked out of there within ten minutes with a copy of my medical records for the date I was treated there.... in their ENTIRETY. Why doesn't someone take a few dollars from the 50k and do Will a favor here?

[EFerrari]

186. You may want to read my post again. I suggested that Will go

to people that he does trust at this moment, not to Andy or me or the tens of others that apparently are not trusted by him at this moment.

:)

[belladonna]

195. I test pretty high on reading comprehension

How about you? My point is, why does he have to be the one to seek the answers to his questions? You're in communication with the doctors and hospital, and Andy as well. Get the copies of the medical records, just as I did, and get them to Will. Pretty simple solution.

[EFerrari]

201. I agree. A simple solution. n/t

[belladonna]

263. Since you agree, I'll assume that this is what you're going to do?

I'm sure everyone here would love to have this issue cleared up once and for all.

[EFerrari]

290. I have no access to Andy's records. And if Will needs more

faxing from Andy, I'm sure Andy will oblige.

As far as clearing all this up, Skinner had a good plan last week. And, we shouldn't forget that not even the doctor will know beyond a doubt what he's looking at until he is physically looking at it.

[Dee625]

248. Hey Megan

Another time when I wish I could PM on this board.

[meganmonkey]

271. Hey - it's good to see you!

(although I wish it were on a nicer thread!)

You need to get your post count up!!! :hi:

(on edit: your post up there is right on the mark - well said!)

[yvr girl]

117. No matter what the truth turns out to be

you acted out of compassion and friendship. That is never wrong. I understand you feel betrayed and perhaps a bit foolish but you need to wait for the truth before you condemn.

Maybe you should have been a bit more demanding up front. Perhaps this is all just a case of bad communication. Talk to Andy. Get the proof you require.

You put a lot of heart into the things you do. Much of that passion is directed against things. Against the war. Against Bush. I think you took the opportunity to fight for something and ran with it.

There is little doubt Andy is sick. You and he have posted medical documents. Maybe he isn't as sick as we thought - in my book that's good news. It would be a hollow victory indeed, to find out that Andy is as sick as we were led to believe.

No matter what the outcome, I know you'll be more careful next time. Good, but don't let it make you cynical.

There are good take-aways from this. Progressives are passionate people. If we learn to channel it - we can move mountains. Every American deserves health care. I think many people on DU will be fighting for this to become more than a pipe-dream.

Just my 2 cents.

[Goldmund]

132. "don't let it make you cynical"

Could not agree more.

[spanone]

125. Andy, you can put this to rest Right Now! Step up to the keyboard.

Thank you

[Mairead]

162. Andy doesn't need people on his case. So pipe down, please.

Thank you.

[hiley]

142. "I'm pretty upset right now, and I need an explanation"WP

as always, everything is about you, correct ?
Either you love Andy "like a brother" or you don't.
make up your mind...
hiley

[Bunny]

168. Exactly!

:thumbsup:

[ooglymoogly]

238. look the deed is done

i say lets wait and see, and we all know the truth will come out...many of us dug into pockets we didn't have for someone who's life was threatened and is one of our own. i can understand wills panic attack since it was from his posts that many of us decided to give...but i can wait and i think most of us can wait for a definitive answer and then decide for ourselves about reputations. it would be wonderful if every sick person without insurance could come to du for help, but we know that would not work since we must have priorities and money is limited. right now i am assuming andy has a life threatening illness and my giving was justified and i sleep soundly on that.

[ohio_liberal]

148. Oh shit

Everyone has been saying pancreatic cancer. What's the difference between a tumor on a duct and pancreatic cancer?

[comsymp]

159. A lot

[Modem Butterfly]

160. It's less considerably less deadly, for one

Pancreatic cancer kills quickly in part because it usually isn't diagnosed until it's spread.

[ohio_liberal]

167. Yes, that much I know

I had two family members (grandmother, brother-in-law)who passed away because of pancreatic cancer. I still don't know all there is to know about it.

[Maat]

176. Yep, and I donated to help Andy when we could do something.

I didn't focus on it being a last minute thing.

I wanted to donate when we could do something.

We raised the money, and, hopefully, they will go in, find out it is less serious than was initially thought, and that Andy indeed has a great chance (hopefully 99% or something). Hopefully, it is encapsulated, not on the organ we thought (less serious). Hopefully, it isn't even cancer (that's probably dreaming). Andy will have the surgery, we will find out within a week or so, and Andy will recover quickly, with analysis done by the best experts around.

Then I (and we all) will have gotten our money's worth.


Good luck, Andy!

Ignore the negativity!

I'm hoping for the best!

Peace and Blessings,

[merh]

169. fyi

May 17, 2005

Pancreatic cancer

Definition

Pancreatic cancer is a disease in which cancerous cells are found within the tissues of the pancreas. The pancreas is a six-inch long, pear-shaped gland that lies behind the stomach, surrounded by other digestive organs, such as the liver, gallbladder, and small intestine. It has two main functions, to produce digestive juices that help break down food, and to produce hormones (like insulin) that control how the body stores and uses the food.
Description

The part of the pancreas that produces the digestive juices is called the exocrine pancreas, and almost 95% of pancreatic cancers occur in the tissues of the exocrine pancreas. The hormone-producing area of the pancreas is the endocrine pancreas and only 5% of the tumors originate there.

Though pancreatic cancer accounts for only 2-3% of all cancers, it is the fourth most frequent cause of cancer deaths. It is estimated that at least 29,000 new cases of pancreatic cancer will be diagnosed in the United States in 1998. Unfortunately, cancer of the pancreas is often fatal, and only 18% will survive one year after diagnosis. The five-year survival rate is 4%. This is because by the time a patient exhibits symptoms, and the cancer is diagnosed, it is no longer in its early stages. It has usually spread to other organs such as the lung and the liver.

The incidence of pancreatic cancer increases with age, and most cases are detected in individuals aged 60 or older. Men are also 30% more likely to develop cancer of the pancreas than are women. African Americans have been noted to have a higher frequency of pancreatic cancer than European Americans and Asian Americans. However, whether the increase is because of race or the influence of diet cannot be really ascertained. Studies have shown that among Africans and Asians whose diet is lower in fat than African Americans and Asian Americans, the incidence of pancreatic cancer is significantly lower.
Causes & symptoms

Although the exact cause for pancreatic cancer remains unknown, several risk factors, such as smoking and diets rich in red meat and fat, have been shown to increase the susceptibility to this particular cancer. It has been observed that a third of pancreatic cancer cases occur among smokers. Therefore, smoking is regarded as the single greatest risk factor for this cancer.

Although the association between diabetes and pancreatic cancer is not known, the disease is more common among diabetics. Conditions such as chronic pancreatitis (long-term inflammation of the pancreas) have also been associated with an increased risk for pancreatic cancer. Some research data shows that exposure to certain substances, such as gasoline and dry cleaning chemicals increases the risk of this cancer.

The most common signs and symptoms of the disease are:

* Abdominal pain is generally a sign that the pancreatic cancer has spread to the surrounding area and the tumor is pressing down on the nerves. Typically, the pain is in the back and relieved by sitting up and bending forward.
* Weight loss that is not due to drastic dieting or exercising is a common occurrence in pancreatic cancer patients. Weight loss could be due to loss of appetite and improper digestion.
* Digestive problems, diarrhea, and nausea may often occur in patients because the pancreas plays an important role in making certain digestive juices that break down the fatty foods.
* Gallbladder enlargement may sometimes occur, because the pancreatic tumor expands in size and presses down on the ducts leading from the gallbladder to the small intestine. Hence, the bile accumulates in the gallbladder causing it to become enlarged (a positive Courvoisier sign).
* Jaundice (a yellowish discoloration of the whites of the eyes and the skin) due to an accumulation of a substance called "bilirubin" in these tissues. Jaundice is secondary, and related, to associated obstruction of the common bile duct by the cancer. Many other conditions, such as hepatitis and the presence of gallstones also cause jaundice.

Diagnosis

The first step in diagnosing pancreatic cancer is a thorough medical history and a complete physical examination. The doctor will inquire about the severity of the pain, how long it has been present, its location, etc. A physical examination will be conducted to check for fluid accumulation, or any lumps, or masses, in the abdomen. The skin and the whites of the eyes will be checked for jaundice. Blood tests will be performed to rule out the possibility of liver diseases that can also contribute to jaundice.

Imaging tests such as CT scans, MRI imaging, or ultrasonography may be ordered in order to get a detailed picture of the internal organs. This will also help to check whether the cancer has spread to other organs beyond the pancreas.

The doctor may perform a test known as ERCP (endoscopic retrograde cholangiopancreatography), where a long thin tube is passed down the patient's throat and food pipe (through an endoscope and under endoscopic guidance) into the stomach. This enables the doctor to check for any blockage of the pancreatic ducts that may be due to cancer. The doctor can also place a small brush in the tube and collect some cells from the pancreas. These can then be examined microscopically, and any cancerous cells, if existing, can be detected.

The most definitive test for pancreatic cancer is a biopsy, where a sample of the tumor is removed and examined microscopically.


Treatment

Pancreatic cancer can be treated by any of the three standard modalities: surgery, radiation therapy, or chemotherapy.

If the imaging studies show that the cancer is contained within the pancreas, the doctors will attempt surgery to remove all the cancer. Depending on the location of the tumor, different types of surgery can be performed, where either the whole pancreas or only parts of the pancreas are removed. If, however, the imaging studies show that the cancer has spread beyond the pancreas and cannot be completely removed, the doctors will perform surgery to relieve symptoms, or to prevent complications.

If the tumor is too widespread to be removed by surgery, radiation therapy in combination with chemotherapy is used.
Prognosis

The disease is often fatal. Once diagnosed with this cancer, 95% of patients will die within five years. More than 80% of the patients will not survive the first year after initial diagnosis. The poor prognosis is because of late diagnosis; the pancreas is a small gland located deep within the abdominal cavity, and, hence, cannot be seen or felt during routine physical examination. There are no early symptoms, and by the time the symptoms are manifested, the cancer has already spread to other organs and is in an advanced stage. Doctors and researchers are working hard to find new methods of diagnosing pancreatic cancer before it spreads.
Prevention

Since the exact cause of pancreatic cancer is not known, there are no guidelines for prevention. The wisest approach would be to avoid all the risk factors for pancreatic cancer.

Quitting cigarette smoking will certainly reduce the risk for many cancers, including pancreatic cancer. In countries where the diet is low in fat, the incidence of pancreatic cancer is much lower. The American Cancer Society recommends a diet rich in fruits, vegetables, and dietary fiber in order to reduce the risk of pancreatic cancer.
Terms:
Biopsy
The surgical removal and microscopic examination of living tissue for diagnostic purposes.
Cancer
A fatal disease, if left untreated, of neoplasms (tumors or growths). Cancer cells spread in the body and invade other tissue.
Chemotherapy
A treatment of the cancer with synthetic drugs that destroy the tumor either by inhibiting the growth of the cancerous cells or by killing the cancer cells.
Computerized tomography (CT) scan
A medical procedure where a series of x-rays are taken and put together by a computer in order to form detailed pictures of areas inside the body.
Courvoisier sign
Related to Courvoisier's Law which states: When the common bile duct is obstructed by a stone, dilation of the gallbladder is rare; when the duct is obstructed some other way, dilation is common.
Diabetes
A condition where dietary carbohydrates, especially sugars, are not efficiently metabolized by the body, leading to the presence of sugar (or glucose) in the blood and urine. One of the triggering factors for diabetes is malfunction of the pancreas, resulting in insufficient production of the hormone insulin.
Gallbladder
A small sac-like gland that lies below the liver and stores the bile produced in the liver. Ducts (tubes) leading out of the gallbladder deposit the bile in the small intestine.
Gallstones
Protein depositions that cause an obstruction in the gallbladder, or in the ducts leading out of the gallbladder.
Hepatitis
A liver disease characterized by inflammation of the liver cells (hepatocytes).
Jaundice
A condition where there is a yellowish discoloration of the skin and the whites of the eyes due to accumulation of a substance known as bilirubin in these tissues and the blood.
Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)
A medical procedure used for diagnostic purposes where pictures of areas inside the body can be created using a magnet linked to a computer.
Radiation therapy
A treatment using high energy radiation from x-ray machines, cobalt, radium, or other sources.
Ultrasonogram
A procedure where high-frequency sound waves that cannot be heard by human ears are bounced off internal organs and tissues. These sound waves produce a pattern of echoes which are then used by the computer to create sonograms or pictures of areas inside the body.

Resources:
BOOKS
Dollinger, Malin. Everyone's Guide to Cancer Therapy. Kansas City, MO: Somerville House Books Limited, 1994.
Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy, edited by Robert Berkow, et al. 16th ed. Rahway, NJ: Merck Research Laboratories, 1992.
Morra, Marion E. Choices. New York: Avon Books, 1994.
ORGANIZATIONS
American Cancer Society. 1599 Clifton Road N.E., Atlanta, Georgia 30329. [phone].
Cancer Research Institute. 681 Fifth Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10022. [phone].
National Cancer Institute. 9000 Rockville Pike, Bethesda, MD 20892. [phone].

The above information is an educational aid only. It is not intended as medical advice for individual conditions or treatments. Talk to your doctor, nurse or pharmacist before following any medical regimen to see if it is safe and effective for you.

This health encyclopedia is made possible by the Dr. Joseph F. Smith Trust Fund. Dr. Smith was a surgeon who resided in Wausau from 1908 to 1952. In addition to his surgical practice, Dr. Smith possessed a strong commitment to community service and medical education. The agreement which created the Dr. Joseph F. Smith Medical library was signed in July of 1948.
Copyright 1999-2001. The Thomson Corporation. All rights reserved. MyDiseaseDex(TM) is a trademark of Micromedex, Inc.

Medical Library, 333 Pine Ridge Blvd. Wausau, WI 54401, Phone: [phone], Fax, 715-847-2183
www.chclibrary.org

http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00059670.html

[Amaya]

177. With pancreatic cancer the prognosis is generally not good at all.

He was scheduled for the Whipple procedure.
the Whipple procedure consist of: http://pathology2.jhu.edu/pancreas/surgicaltx.cfm
This is serious stuff


And a question not for you, but just in general:
Was or is he in radiation treatment? Or Chemo? Just asking... I have two pancreatic cancer patients who are in aggressive chemo and radiation... so I'm just curious.

[benburch]

165. Hi! Umm...

I am not sure where to start with this.

I certainly didn't mean to unleash a firestorm. Now it seems that we are in a situation in which there is no resolution without somebody I respected getting hurt.

I only was asking if he was OK, and hoping he was not in pain. I didn't want to magnify his troubles or damage anybody's reputation at all. And I have to note that we still don't have anything that would stand up to legal tests of fact on either side of this issue. This is a message board on the Internet, not an organ of public record, after all.

To quote the famous line for "Easy Rider" - "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Andy, or one of his caregivers needs to come up with a couple of bits of data that would settle this whole mess if provided;

- What is Andy's exact diagnosis?

- What tests support that?

- How much money, exactly, was raised? (A printout of the History log from PayPal would be a good start, or the bank records that the money finally cleared through.)

Provide those and I think we can put this behind us.

I regret any pain I may have caused you, Andy, and I continue to hope for your swift and complete recovery.

And on behalf of myself and my website I apologize to everybody at DU for having lit the match to this powder keg.

[WilliamPitt]

180. You missed the big question

Why was 'pancreatic cancer' given definitively as the diagnosis weeks ago if that is not the case? Why was the framing of all this done with an immediate life-or-death avalanche?

[yvr girl]

189. You don't seem to want to talk to Andy but he's the only one who can

give you answers. If a phone call won't work. Go to Baltimore. I think you need a face to face talk.

[Catherine Vincent]

198. Will, you have to remember Andy was dealing with different doctors.

[Willy Lee]

205. Have you seen ANY of the posts written by folks who have gone through

a cancer diagnosis?

Please read them.

Ain't no such thing as black and white.

[grace0418]

207. My father had several "definitive diagnoses" when he was critically

ill. One of the best doctors in the country for neuro-muscular disorders actually staked his reputation on the "fact" that my dad had ALS (Lou Gherig's disease). He was wrong. What my father had was a neuro-muscular disorder brought on by a prescription drug now taken off the market. None of that really matters in the end though, because my dad died anyway.

I understand your frustration, but medicine is what it is. "Definitive" diagnoses change allllll the time. It doesn't necessarily mean the person's situation is any less grave.

[benburch]

233. I agree, Will.

When I hear "Pancreatic Cancer" I think of the fact that everybody I ever knew who had it died very quickly.

I wasn't looking for the big picture I guess, just trying to ascertain the immediate facts.

Either he is sick, or he isn't.

Either he is as sick as he said, or he isn't.

Either he collected $50K, or he collected a whole lot more.

And honestly, I cannot see that we could sort out the difference between these points without full disclosure.

Will, much as I hate to suggest this, perhaps now would be a good time to involve legal council?

[seventythree]

243. thanks for falling on the sword for DU, Will

Pancreatic cancer is a disease in which cancerous cells are found WITHIN THE TISSUES OF THE PANCREAS -- from merth's post

Get a clue as to the ramifications of what is going on here, folks.

[seventythree]

244. thanks for falling on the sword for DU, Will

Pancreatic cancer is a disease in which cancerous cells are found WITHIN THE TISSUES OF THE PANCREAS -- from merth's post

Get a clue as to the ramifications of what is going on here, folks.

[ultraist]

234. I think those are reasonable questions

Andy did have a biopsy as per his post linked above. It seems to me, that results from the biopsy would satisfy those questions. Regardless of staging, if a tumor is malignant, time is of the essence for removal. If it has not metastasized, it needs to be removed and treated asap as some cancer cells are very fast growing.

If the pathology report from the biopsy shows it's benign, there is still a chance that it is malignant; it is possible that they don't get a complete sample (they may get only good cells from a malignant tumor). That's why they send the entire tumor to pathology after it's removed.

Furthermore, many tumors need to be removed even if they are not malignant as they may pose life threatening conditions.

[Horse with no Name]

166. Truly not to be confrontational about this Will

because I think you and Andy both are "all that and a bag of chips".
But what seems to be missing in this post is the fact that Andy has a professional reputation that deserves to be preserved just as much as yours does.
Physician's aren't Gods and they aren't always correct.
They don't just schedule Whipple's on a whim. It is a last ditch, high risk surgery that you are just as likely to die from as the disease you have it for.
If indeed Andy needs to have the surgery--why begrudge him the best place in the country to have it?
There are many places in the country you can have this that are just as good in my opinion but only one can be ranked the best.
IF this is what he needed mentally and emotionally to help him through this--the thought of having the best shot at survival--let's not begrudge him that.
As a nurse who has taken care of many Whipple patients (not sure where Baylor-Dallas ranks in the scheme of things, but I know it's up there), he has been very consistent with his telling of events and sequences and procedures.
Unless this was an elaborate scheme of extreme proportions, these are things he wouldn't have known unless he lived them and was told these things by physicians.

[lalajohns]

175. Damn...Damn..Damn..

Poor Andy!

Whether this man is sick or NOT, he has been put through the got-darn wringer by some of these naysayers on this message board.

If I were rich like Miss Oprah, I would pay the damn surgery myself.

Whew!

[Maat]

226. I agree.

We need to let it go until around May 27th or May 28th.

Andy, stay there, get full diagnosis by the nation's best experts, get the surgery done ASAP, and we will all know exactly what is going on soon. Please!

Hopefully, the very best news is going to come forth.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hiley]

188. this show of unearned self-importance

bravo !!

[libnnc]

208. selfdelete

[bpilgrim]

194. why didn't he take this up with ANDY in PRIVATE

:argh:

this kinda dramatic posing is what i expect from the M$MWs :puke:

peace

[Bunny]

213. Thank you!

Very nicely said!
:thumbsup:

[bicentennial_baby]

264. Amen sister!

Thanks for saying what I was feeling, reading this piece of shit thread. What nerve some all-too-self-important people around here have! Some friends, eh?

[supernova]

192. Will, talk to Andy directly

He's the only one who can tell you exactly what's going on. I don't blame you for wanting answers after putting your professional reputation on the line.

But really, this thread is counter productive. The only thing we who are not Andy are going to do here in this thread is S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-E.

[im10ashus]

204. Who is William Pitt?

Is he a "real" journalist? Never heard of him, but then again, I am relatively new to DU.

[supernova]

210. Yes, he's a journalist

Edited Truthout.com and now works for Progressive Democrats for America.

He's usually well-spoken and thoughtful, if a little hot-headed now and then. ;-)

[annabanana]

259. talented, but prickly. . . . . . eom

[Melinda]

266. Subscribes to Code of Ethics of the Society of Professional Journalists?

Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. The duty of the journalist is to further those ends by seeking truth and providing a fair and comprehensive account of events and issues. Conscientious journalists from all media and specialties strive to serve the public with thoroughness and honesty. Professional integrity is the cornerstone of a journalist's credibility. Members of the Society share a dedication to ethical behavior and adopt this code to declare the Society's principles and standards of practice.

Seek Truth and Report It
Journalists should be honest, fair and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.

Journalists should:

Test the accuracy of information from all sources and exercise care to avoid inadvertent error. Deliberate distortion is never permissible.
Diligently seek out subjects of news stories to give them the opportunity to respond to allegations of wrongdoing.
Identify sources whenever feasible. The public is entitled to as much information as possible on sources' reliability.
Always question sources' motives before promising anonymity. Clarify conditions attached to any promise made in exchange for information. Keep promises.
Make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context.
Never distort the content of news photos or video. Image enhancement for technical clarity is always permissible. Label montages and photo illustrations.
Avoid misleading re-enactments or staged news events. If re-enactment is necessary to tell a story, label it.
Avoid undercover or other surreptitious methods of gathering information except when traditional open methods will not yield information vital to the public. Use of such methods should be explained as part of the story.
Never plagiarize.
Tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience boldly, even when it is unpopular to do so.
Examine their own cultural values and avoid imposing those values on others.
Avoid stereotyping by race, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, geography, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance or social status.
Support the open exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.
Give voice to the voiceless; official and unofficial sources of information can be equally valid.
Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labeled and not misrepresent fact or context.
Distinguish news from advertising and shun hybrids that blur the lines between the two.
Recognize a special obligation to ensure that the public's business is conducted in the open and that government records are open to inspection.
Minimize Harm
Ethical journalists treat sources, subjects and colleagues as human beings deserving of respect.

Journalists should:

Show compassion for those who may be affected adversely by news coverage. Use special sensitivity when dealing with children and inexperienced sources or subjects.
Be sensitive when seeking or using interviews or photographs of those affected by tragedy or grief.
Recognize that gathering and reporting information may cause harm or discomfort. Pursuit of the news is not a license for arrogance.
Recognize that private people have a greater right to control information about themselves than do public officials and others who seek power, influence or attention. Only an overriding public need can justify intrusion into anyone's privacy.
Show good taste. Avoid pandering to lurid curiosity.

Be cautious about identifying juvenile suspects or victims of sex crimes.
Be judicious about naming criminal suspects before the formal filing of charges.
Balance a criminal suspect's fair trial rights with the public's right to be informed.
Act Independently
Journalists should be free of obligation to any interest other than the public's right to know.

Journalists should:
Avoid conflicts of interest, real or perceived.
Remain free of associations and activities that may compromise integrity or damage credibility.
Refuse gifts, favors, fees, free travel and special treatment, and shun secondary employment, political involvement, public office and service in community organizations if they compromise journalistic integrity.
Disclose unavoidable conflicts.
Be vigilant and courageous about holding those with power accountable.
Deny favored treatment to advertisers and special interests and resist their pressure to influence news coverage.
Be wary of sources offering information for favors or money; avoid bidding for news.
Be Accountable
Journalists are accountable to their readers, listeners, viewers and each other.

Journalists should:

Clarify and explain news coverage and invite dialogue with the public over journalistic conduct.
Encourage the public to voice grievances against the news media.
Admit mistakes and correct them promptly.
Expose unethical practices of journalists and the news media.
Abide by the same high standards to which they hold others.

<end>

Poor Andy.

(all bolding mine)

[mogster]

197. I don't get this HASTE!

Two weeks ago this fundraising was THE winner of winners, and you couldn't log on to the DU without getting the Good Feeling oozing in through your adsl line. It was like Mother Teresa and the DU.
No matter if the cause was to give Donald Trump a haircut or save a guy from cancer, this effect on the community is entirely positive--the effect of feeling that somethings gets done, that you've participated in doing something.

Then one ten-post troll comes along and kicks off a campaign that--in a moment--swings the mood around, and turns the good feeling into an open sore. From Well-doer to Fraud Victim - the step is small, it appears. To small, IMHO. And to fast. Knowing there is a seriously mentally unstable person hovering in this guy's background, wouldn't it be prudent to at least let the doubt be in his favor until further notice?

What about all the people that ran the campaign, stayed up for two weekends - why did they do it? Because they thought he wasn't sick and needed urgent care?

I never even knew where the pancreas was, I learned it in this thread. Who gives the fuck? Is the guy ill or isn't he? How many inches does the tumor have to be located in relation to the pancreas for it to be accepted as 'passed' here now?
Or what if the tumor turns out to be of good nature, dearie me?

Die of cancer as a democratic hero or stay alive with your reputation slandered, now that's a tough pair of destiny prospects.

I'd say: go back to the pre-troll mode, relax a little, then you'll see that the facts will come out. Eventually, in time.

[Plaid Adder]

199. Look, talk to people who know something. Why do this on the board?

If you really think Andy was jerking you around, then talk to him or his near and dear or Skinner or whoever and find out what's really going on before you start a discussion involving 60,000 people plus an unknown number of chortling Freepers.

If your suspicions are unwarranted, then you're raking a sick man over the coals at the most vulnerable time of his life. If they are warranted, then you will eventually be able to substantiate them, and when you can, by all means post about it publicly. Till you can, though, why do this in front of the entire world?

Don't fight in front of strangers unless there's no way around it, I say,

The Plaid Adder

[Maat]

203. Amen.

And I love your writing.

[EFerrari]

206. Thank you, Plaid Adder. n/t

[goodboy]

209. amen, again. *nt*

[Bunny]

227. Thank you!

Maybe now it will sink in, and the right thing can be done.

[Individualist]

242. Hear, hear!

Kicking a man while he's down is despicable.

[katinmn]

255. Well said, Plaid Adder. Why invite the trolls to screw with us again?

[King Coal]

277. Plaid, It's called being a standup guy. You can't have it both ways.

Will is doing what his heart and mind tell him to do. I respect and understand that. If he has to he will take his lumps, and I can guarantee you he won't eat his crow after it gets cold, if he has any to eat.

Hang in there Will. You're handling this the right way.

[Plaid Adder]

295. This is not being stand-up, it is refusing to consider consequences.

We've all had moments where we don't think before hitting 'send,' but for crying out loud, starting a 300-post public donnybrook over something like this based on nothing more than a second-hand report from someone who's not Andy when there has already been a lot of five-alarm drama over this is quite simply irresponsible.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Pathwalker]

202. Sorry your phone is broken, so you can't speak to Andy

without posting here. :eyes:

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

217. Your point is, Ass?

:shrug:

[goodboy]

221. he's from "see you" fuck him..alert that fucker.

[janx]

321. Freeperland has a thread devoted to Will's post:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1405019/posts

[ET Awful]

225. Read his name backwards MG

It's pretty obvious.

[goodboy]

218. FUCK YOU TROLL!

[Goldmund]

223. Pat-pat-pat-pat on the back

Your buddies are proud!

[goodboy]

230. his name is "bush won" backward...

[ScreamingMeemie]

232. One would really wish they would get a hobby other than hanging on

every word here like lovesick little puppies. ;)

[ohio_liberal]

249. He's violating imageshack's terms of service

Files whose intended use or purpose is to harrass individual or multiple persons.

[im10ashus]

236. This REEKS of...

...the slime that dare not speak its name. SHAME on you! May a thousand bits of Karma come back to bite you in the ass! Is THIS what William Pitt was looking to start? Hey, William, stop playing the freaking alpha male and move on. And take your tin foil hat with you.

[patcox2]

284. I couldn't be more calm.

It wouldn't upset me one way or the other. Shit happens. Could be completely innocent "diagnosis creep." Could be something was exaggerated. I was completely unaware, myself, that Seattle medicine was so backward. It would be annoying, wouldn't it, if you learned that a charity case demanded the cadillac when they could have gotten to work in a geo, after all. But really, it just don't matter much. There are honest people and scammers in the world, and good-hearted people will occasionally get taken advantage of. Jesus said give to those who ask, and do not trouble yourself as to the merit of their case.

[libnnc]

220. jesus god

I didn't want to get into this.

I donated.

I was moved to do so because my partner's sister IS DYING RIGHT NOW of pancreatic cancer that has spread to her liver. She's 42. A kick ass OB who has saved hundreds of lives and has delivered literally thousands of babies in her career. A whipple won't do her any good.

I hope Andy gets 100% better and this thing gets straightened out.

[merh]

256. Sorry for your suffering and the suffering of your partner. You

both are in my prayers.

On January 2, 2005, I lost a very dear friend of mine battling the liver/pancreatic cancer. He battled, but he didn't win and it was very hard to watch. He was more than a friend, he was like a brother and no, I wouldn't have attached him if he told me, sorry it ain't really cancer, just a boil.

My friend never had the opportunity to have a top notch surgeon at Johns Hopkins offer his expertise.

I gave money and was involved in this for Andy because it is the right thing to do.

[Maat]

312. I'm so sorry to hear that, libnnc.

God bless her!

[VelmaD]

237. OK...I've avoided posting as long as I can...

Will, you're my friend and I love ya dearly and I hope you get the answers you need to feel like you haven't got your professional ass hanging out in the breeze.

Andy, if you're reading this, I love ya too. You know that. Do what you've got to do to get well.

I just want this whole thing to go away. I want to get in the way-back machine and go back to January and have it "just" be Hep A that was giving Andy jaundice. I want Andy well and Will happy and for this all to be over NOW NOW NOW *stomps foot*. This is hell...I'm officially in hell.

[EFerrari]

262. It'll be okay, Velma. We're all a little edgy. Maybe to be expected

with the stakes so high. Will will get the info he needs and Andy will get the care he needs.

Maybe families just squabble and go off when they're under a lot of pressure. You'd know that, right? My degree is in English :)

[DemBeans]

239. whoa

If you feel the need to publicly ask these questions - and it isn't up to me to judge that one way or the other - at least you should tone down the angry, self-aggrandizing tone of the OP.

"But if this is not explained to a degree that I find satisfactory..." Sorry, but if I had an ill family member who was being spoken to like this, I'd personally smack you upside the head. Regardless of what you put on the line to fundraise, throwing around lines like "hell to pay" is just so over the line, so silly. There's only perceived and unproven wrongdoing by one party, but your own wrongdoing here is obvious and not in question by the snarling tone of your post.

[question everything]

240. The benefit of the doubt

Most of us are not experts in medical terminology and physiology. It is possible that Andy is just repeating what his doctors are telling him, and that each physician and nurse are using different terms to explain the situation in layman terms.

As many suggest, you know Andy personally, know how to get in touch with him and I think that you owe it to yourself and to all of us to get a clear answer.

I am one of many that don't know Andy and not even familiar with his work on the electronic voting machines (and was surprised to find out, through all the threads, that Bev Harris has turned from a saint to satan..) But I trusted people like you, and flyarm, and the amazing sfexpat2000 that this was a worthy cause. I do not regret sending money... even sent some to the American Cancer Society since a neighborhood kid put the envelope in my box.

So please, any of you how communicate with Andy please talk to him. This was a wonderful think that we did here the past few weeks, let's not unravel it because of doubts and questions that can be easily answered.

And you don't even need to be confrontational. Just say that "some" are confused with the type of cancer that he has. That us, being DUers who like to find things for ourselves, many have searched information about pancreatic cancer and bile duct cancer and are confused and are asking questions.

Please, Will. For your sake and for all of us who believe in you and follow you.

Thanks

[Name removed]

247. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

273. Tinoire

You are my hero! :hug:

Sure hope you saved it - it was wonderful! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[leftchick]

301. mine as well...

bravo!

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Maat]

304. Amen!

[Melinda]

274. Whaaaaat? It's not always about Will!?!?!?!?

You could knock me over with a feather right about now!

Just another in a long line of DU soaps penned by the infamous Mr Pitt.

[bicentennial_baby]

281. J'adore Tinoire

Mon amie, je t'aime beaucoup! Tu es magnifique!

-heather

ps- you're damn right.

[Cleita]

250. I suppose we are going to have to wait until after the

surgery to be sure. If he dies, I don't think it will make anybody feel any better if Andy is vindicated by this.

I have sort of felt uncomfortable about the situation, first because of Andy's former association with grifter, Bev Harris. Secondly because of the drama surrounding this. I couldn't contribute much,myself, but if what I contributed buys Andy a few beers, that's okay with me.

But, whatever happens, I hope Andy will survive and be in the best of health in the future.

[nonny]

254. Yep, I do......................

"If you think I'm a bastard for asking, I will live with that."

Answer to that is YEP

What a friend.................................

[OldLeftieLawyer]

267. Tax implications

If the money was just given to Andy, he's going to have to declare it as taxable income.

I'm no tax lawyer, but there's a lot to be curious about here.



"Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see."
Benjamin Franklin

[hiley]

298. Johns Hopkins will

be claiming the income on Surgery .........
okay

[OldLeftieLawyer]

308. Huh?

What was THAT about?

[jeanarrett]

268. This may sound stupid to some. . . but

science seems to prove through various studies that positive mental attitude and "prayer," (while admitting to not understanding why) has resulted in people who were very sick and having no hope of recovery doing just that and sometimes miraculously so.

What if you were to assume that Andy was, in fact, very, very sick to begin with but that all of the positive vibes that came from here, elsewhere and the many thousands who professed to be praying for him, has not directly brought about some measure of healing of his problem? It could happen. . . weirder things have, and if anyone doesn't believe this, then don't profess to *pray* for him, because why bother? But, maybe, that is in fact, what has happened. Maybe all those pleas for help were heard and a higher power has stepped in to some degree.

If that is true, and we'll never know for sure, because that's what faith is, then everyone who contributed in that way has accomplished a hell of a lot more than the raising of $50,000 to help a sick person without health insurance get help for his problem. That's what's called a miracle. Maybe one has indeed been granted.

[Goldmund]

269. Is this some kind of parody?

:shrug:

[Kurovski]

272. Has this been suggested?

If Andy's procedure is less money than the amount raised, can Andy move those funds to assist Damu Smith?

It would seem to be a way for all parties to make good on all promises, requests and any tangled communications that may have occurred.

Is such a thing possible?

Sorry if this was already suggested, while I scanned the posts, I can't read all of them at this time.

[seabeyond]

282. pass it forward, i like n/t

[merh]

300. Sounds like a good idea, but to be honest, looks like Andy

will be lucky if $50,000.00 is all this costs him.

:shrug:

[WI_DEM]

275. All I can say is that if Andy is not as sick as he thought he was

then Hallelujah!! There is no doubt in my mind that he was very ill, and with this type of thing it sometimes takes tests to determine just how sick or advanced something is--until then doctors are just speculating. I gave a measly $20 but am proud to be part of a group of people who put someone else' welfare above their own self interests. I think this thread is just going to cause needless suspicions again and should have been handled privately.

[graywarrior]

276. and Karl Rove claps his hands in glee...again.

Jesus, the freepers love this shit.

[King Coal]

280. I don't slow down for Freepers.

[KamaAina]

279. A Modest Proposal

Against my better judgment, I'm going to step in here for a moment.

Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that Andy is indeed less sick than we all thought he was, and that he ultimately escapes the clutches of our health care* system with a bill substantially less than the original estimate of $50k.

In that instance, being the stand-up guy that most of us believe him to be, would it not be pono (harmonious, balanced, righteous) for Andy to "pay it forward" and donate the excess, or at least some of it, to Damu Smith? I mean, that's what progressives do, right -- back each other up?

[salvorhardin]

291. That's a great idea

and it'll help Andy avoid a lot of the tax implications of having $50K+ dollars given to him in the matter of a few weeks.

[im10ashus]

293. Great idea!

And I agree. I think we are giving this post WAY too much attention. I for one have met Andy and don't have any concern. If it's not as serious, then GREAT. My good vibes, and the good vibes of many others, were felt. Andy would do the right thing in paying it forward. Let's stop paying this William Pitt lip service on this subject. This is enough to make me quit visiting DU.

[qanda]

299. Fundraising efforts for Andy have been going on for over 3 months now

I believe a proper accounting of ALL of those funds would be in order right now.

I think your idea is wonderful.

[MadisonProgressive]

287. I hope Andy really does have pancreatic cancer

so Will won't have his reputation tarnished. :puke:

[hiley]

294. MadisonProgressive

me too, since that is far more important !
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Goldmund]

297. That's garbage.

It's like saying "I hope Iraq really does have WMDs and they nuke Tel Aviv, so that the President's reputation isn't tarnished! :puke:"

I'm not comparing the two -- I sure do know that Bush lied and I don't know yet that Andy did. But the point here is that we're talking about honesty and manipulation, not somebody's vanity.

[EFerrari]

311. Goldmund, I don't know if you'll see humor in this, but I promise

you, had I wanted to manipulate you or anyone, I hope I could have done a better job. :)

Will isn't the only one who put his rep on the line here. I did as well and while you may not know who I am, my career would end in a heartbeat if my rep was damaged. Ditto for my husband, he's an entertainer. I don't think we'd trade our lives and livlihoods for merely $50,000.00

I know DUers have been ripped off before and so I do understand the sensitivities involved here, I hope. fwiw

[Goldmund]

317. A clarification

I said in my earlier post "Bush lied, but I don't know that Andy did".

What I meant by that post is that all the appeals of "shouldn't we just be happy for Andy that he's less sick than we thought?" sound exactly like Republican appeals: "Shouldn't we just be happy for our troops that they weren't gassed? Isn't it good that Iraq didn't have WMDs?".

I didn't say that you lied -- I still would be incredibly surprised to learn you did -- and I didn't even say that Andy lied. I don't know that. All I said is that "just be happy he's not as sick as we thought" sounds hollow.

And for the record, I don't care for my 20 bucks, and I don't care for anybody's 20 bucks. It's not about that. It's about this rift in our community, it's about future fundraisers, it's about Damu and cases like his.

And again, I'm not saying this was a scam. I haven't concluded anything. The essential question is whether Andy really believed that he had pancreatic cancer. I haven't heard from him, so I don't know.

[Modem Butterfly]

296. What a shitty thing to say

[belladonna]

313. Oh, give me a fucking break

You and everyone who jumped down his throat, and incidentally, the very one's crying about Will providing fodder for CU, are doing nothing but proving them RIGHT.

A week ago, Will was a wonderful guy for doing all he did to further Andy's cause. Whether you like it or not, he DID put his reputation on the line here. Would you like for me to pull up the dozens of times posters referred to his word as golden? As in, Will Pitt is on our side in this.... are you saying his word isn't good enough? Ring any bells?

Will is absolutely justified in bringing this matter to this board in exactly the way that he did. One phone call or e-mail from Andy or any one of the people who are around him now would have made this completely unnecessary. Funny thing, I didn't hear anyone questioning when DU was being used as a VERY public venue for raising money.

[DS1]

314. Nice spin, you should be proud.

:eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

303. Illegitimus non carborundum my brother.

Remember you got peeps who think you're an all-star despite all this piling-on. Courage.

[Czolgosz]

305. I don't know if this helps, but when I was diagnosed with cancer, my

crappy local "specialist" misdiagnosed a metastatic tumor as the primary tumor, and he had me slated for life altering, disfiguring, disabling surgery. My crappy local doctor assured me he was the "go to" guy for this cancer and that I probably didn't have the time to get a second opinion.

Well, I did get a second opinion at MD Andersen Cancer Center. While they checked me into MD Andersen with the expectation that the diagnosis of my local doctor was correct, they quickly discovered that my local doctor was incorrect (in fact, they discovered that my primary tumor was inoperable and so the life altering surgery on the metastatic tumor would have done me no good at all). Fortunately, I responded well to chemotherapy and radiation.

My point is: my diagnosis and course of treatment changed 180 degrees from what my local doctor diagnosed and what MD Anderson initially presumed was my situation based on my local doctor's initial diagnosis to what my ultimate diagnosis and treatment plan were. I ASSURE YOU THAT THIS IS VERY COMMON -- ABOUT HALF THE PEOPLE I MET IN OVER 6 MONTHS AT MD ANDERSON WERE CHECKED IN WITH ONE EXPECTATION BUT THE EXPECTATIONS WENT OUT THE WINDOW ONCE DOCTORS AT MD ANDERSON RECHECKED ALL THE SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS.

There may yet be a very ordinary and common reconciliation of the facts you initially heard and the facts as they have evolved. Do not lose faith.

[meti57b]

306. Next time we hold the circular firing squad, could we just use water guns?

This is starting to hurt.

Andy, You hang in there and hand tough!! I'm keeping you in my thoughts and wishing you the best of everything!

[WilliamPitt]

309. New thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3674057

[EFerrari]

315. Will, you've been given several options to get answers to your

questions. I hope you chose one that works for you.

[Zomby Woof]

310. Seattle is home to the Fred Hutchison Cancer Center

THE premiere cancer diagnosis, treatment, and research facility in the United States. That is where Carl Sagan was told to go when he was diagnosed with another form of cancer some years back. I wonder if they were ever consulted in all of this.

More questions than answers at a time like this. :-(

[EFerrari]

318. We had a sponsor at JH, not at Hutchison or two others that

we checked out.

Most of these questions have really simple answers. More adrenalin than thoughtfulness when there's a row in the family :(

[EarlG]

320. With respect

Clearly there is still plenty of confusion about the facts of this case. We understand that people have questions, unfortunately we don't think that any of us are going to be able to get any answers by continuing to discuss this right now.

In previous posts we have told people how we plan to resolve this, until then there's really very little we can do.

Locking this now. Thank you for your understanding.