Parents who bring their kids into the smoking section at restaurants

[NNN0LHI]

I am a smoker but with what we know today about second hand smoke when I see parents bringing infants into the smoking section of restaurants I feel like slapping the parents who do this silly. Am I wrong to feel this way? Don't people have any common sense whatsoever? Sorry for the rant. I seen it again today and it has just been bugging me to no end.

Don

[bryant69]

1. I don't know

I mean unless they always smoke outside, might not make much difference.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[fishnfla]

2. Your concern is touching

if only you cared as much about your own health. Dont worry smoking will be forbidden in all restaurants soon

[many a good man]

3. I often feel like slapping parents silly

but this isn't one of the reasons...

[Warren DeMontague]

4. When I was growing up it was normal to be stuck in the car

on a freezing cold day while Mom or Dad smoked like a chimney.. Kaff! And then you were the bad guy if you asked for the window to be opened. Countless other people my age had the same experience.

From where I sit now, it's child abuse.

Personal opinion? Smoking in public establishments- including bars- has been banned in California for years, and I think it's GREAT! (And the indignant smoker brigade can piss and moan all they want, I'm still THRILLED with the law here!!!!!!! MuahahahaahahaHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! .... Like going out to the sidewalk to smoke is such a hardship)

[XemaSab]

18. It's still a bit of a shock

to go to other states where they allow smoking in bars and restaurants.

I heart California!

[expatriate]

29. Went through that myself as a kid.

Now have asthma and chronic bronchitis, suspected to be due to my secondhand smoke inhalation for 18 years.

I used to get frustrated when seeing kids taken into those sections of restaurants (I live where there is no smoking in any restaurant now) - but then, the kids are probably also sitting in the car with their parents smoking, the mother might have smoked during pregnancy, there is probably smoking going on at home and the kids are exposed to it. The time they spend in the smoking section of a restaurant is probably only a tiny portion of the smoke they're exposed to.

This isn't to say I think it's right - but what you're seeing is only a portion of the overall problem.

[misanthrope]

42. Same here...

...I can remember the parent who drove our carpool chain-smoking and me watching the shafts of sunlight through the car's interior. Of course, we weren't allowed to roll the windows down.

Years have gone by and I've been surrounded by it everywhere I turn. And this being Alabama, I don't foresee it changing anytime soon.

I was diagnosed with emphysema at the age of 39. Now, I can't even go to clubs to hear live music because of the smoke. Isn't that a kicker? My doctor doesn't want me listening to jazz bands because of my lungs. One should have nothing to do with the other.

And there are a lot of smokers here. Just the other day, we were at an outdoor arts festival and had to move on a few times because of the cigarette smoke drifting over us.

I've always wanted to bring some sulfur into a bar just to sit down and burn it in the ashtray. When all the smokers start complaining about the odor and what-not, well then all I have to do is ask them why the same complaints don't count in regards to their cigarettes.

Of course, I'd probably get the crap beat out of me by the bouncer.

[SmokingJacket]

62. Ah, those golden memories...

of being trapped in the living room with my grandfather and his cigars, the room so full of sickly sweet smoke I couldn't even see the guy.

That's one experience I'm glad my own kids won't have.

[DIKB]

5. They are completely and totally

self-involved. They simply don't really care about their children, as evidenced by their actions.

[seabeyond]

7. simply don't really care about their children,

right. this disgusts me. shaking head., whatever. i am out of this thread. lordy

[seabeyond]

6. it is none of your business

and who the hell are you to slap someone silly in all your judgement, and thirdly those reports on second hand smoke is an all out effort of three decades to brainwash people to the extent when they see a baby brought into a smoking area of the restaraunt, a fellow diner will want to slap the parent silly

and no i never took my children into the smoking area

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Yeah... Second hand smoke is GOOD for people, right?

What a crock. I lived with 2 smokers for one year in a small apt.
in Chicago--- and couldn't breathe by the end of it.

[seabeyond]

9. i was raised by two smokers

was never sick, a competitive swimmer, one of the best. i dont buy your story

[Warren DeMontague]

13. I don't care if you "buy" it, frankly.

Breathing that shit all the time is bad for you.

[ultraist]

32. It is unhealthy and increases the SIDS rates

SIDS is a risk throughout the entire first year of life. Second hand smoke has been linked as a cause. There's a wealth of research that shows the adverse effects on older children as well.

[anitar1]

51. Welll-- I know a couple who lost their 3rd child to sids and

neither smoked. So I don't think we can blame it completely on smoking. any comments?

[progressivebydesign]

15. Wow.. you're so incredibly special and lucky.

Gosh.. my stepkids grew up with a mother that smoked constantly (even while she was pregnant). Guess what THEY got?? Birth defects, asthma, bronchitis after every cold, constant illness. Guess what my Mom got from living with a smoker? Asthma, chronic bronchitis, and COPD! Wow.. .you're so special and different.

[seabeyond]

17. i have two healthy brothers, older, arent they special

and friends that had smoking parents no health issue more special. do you think, the asthma may have something to do with genetics since mama has it. or the only possibility is she is a smoker. never have known a non asthma person to smoke and then all of a sudden be inflicted

[tabasco]

24. If you are arguing that 2nd hand cigarette smoke is harmless.

Well, I will just be nice and say that the argument is stupid.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. No, see, it's all propaganda--- spread by people who are jealous of how

cool smokers are... and how sexy people sucking on one of those turd sticks look.

[karlrschneider]

31. I am a smoker for 47 fucking years and I don't want to be lectured

about it. I have never spent a day in a hospital, had any surgery except for a tonsillectomy and am healthier, generally, than 99% of people my age (63)

I do not smoke around anyone who's unconfortable with it, I understand that isn't cool, but some fanatics want to limit my ability to puff
even out in the open. They bitch about it, then hop in their pigboat
SUVs and spew out more pollution driving home than I could produce in ninety five goddamn lifetimes. :grr:

[ultraist]

34. LMAO!

"pigboat SUVs" I hadn't heard that one.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. I'm totally libertarian about what people want to do with their own bodies

....smoke outside? Be my guest. Privacy of your own home? Go nuts. I really, really, REALLY could care less.

Public, enclosed spaces where the air is everyone's? That's a different story, at least until they make a cigarette that only goes into the smoker's lungs.

[benny05]

45. I tend to agree

Although I get pissed off at one of my friends who with her spouse subjects her children to 2 packs of smokes a day. Who looks out for second-hand smoke to the kids? Is it fair to them?

I became an early smoker because I saw my parents do it and thought it was OK. I quit 21 years ago when I still was in my early 20's.

I figure it's her family, and her kids at some point will decide if their parents' habits affect them. She is the best mom otherwise.

[Logansquare]

27. Your talking to a wall there

You should see some of the previous threads...

[LeftyMom]

10. We all pay the resultant health costs

Would it be "none of your business" if the OP saw someone slap their kid at the restaurant? The secondhand smoke is certainly more damaging in the long term.

[seabeyond]

11. you havent paid any of my health care.

43 here. not been sick. had two babies. that cost some bucks, but from what i know of science, my parents smoking had nothing to do with it

just throwing bullshit for your agenda

[LeftyMom]

19. agenda?

I really don't give a fuck if people smoke, but I have athsma and don't want to breathe that shit.

Smoking-related health care costs in CA are 8.6 billion a year. Lots of that goes to adult oncology, but athsma in children is expensive to treat and results in missed days of work for thier parents and missed school days for the kids. Ever given a 2 yo a breathing treatement?

As a society we don't let minors buy cigarretes because inhaling carcinogens is bad for them. Why would we let them breathe toxins in as they eat?

People with kids shouldn't smoke. period. Babies raised by smokers are at higher risk for SIDS. They suck up carcinogens in mother's milk, the berathe them in the air, smell them in thier clothes when thier parents aren't around. They grow up with a higher risk for athsma and some cancers. They are more likely to take up the nasty habit.

When my mother got pregnant with me, my father gave up his drug of choice, Camel unfiltereds, cold turkey. (This was decades ago, when the risks of smoking aound kids weren't so clear, he just thought common sense said it was a bad idea.) That's love. My father isn't a hero, honestly he's a bit of an asshole at times, but he did what he could to keep me safe, and any parent who won't do that for thier children doesn't deserve them.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Your dad got off lucky.

My dad gave up his Camel unfiltereds (because "real men" didn't smoke filters, right?) but not in time to spare him a painful death from lung cancer.

Yeah, smoke away- just don't do it in an enclosed space where me and mine have to breathe that shit.

Honestly, though, you can't have one of these threads without bringing out the legions of pissed off, petulant smokers who want to be able to smoke ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE, period- and they just can't understand WHY anyone would ever object.

[LeftyMom]

25. He did

At this point he's been an ex-smoker longer than he ever smoked. Dad comes from a really healthy and long-lived family, so even if the cigs take a decade off his life, he'll still be a stubborn old fart (and I mean that in a loving, if exasperated, way) for many years. :)

[anitar1]

52. Please don't worry about paying the cost--

As none of us will have any health insurance or care in the future with the BFEE running things. So --don't worry, be happy. I should add , that none of us means, The middle and lower classes.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Smoking in restauraunts is vile, period.

In my mind, it's about as bad as someone standing up and taking a dump on their table. I'm astonished people are so wedded to those fucking things that they can't just wait until they go outside... they have to augment the flavor of their nice dinners (and everyone else's) with the yummy taste and stench of ash and tar..

[Skittles]

23. I agree

I smoked for many years and never smoked in restaurant -I'd duck outside.

[anitar1]

53. I do agree with that--I know someone who has to smoke

almost constantly. He refuses to understand that others can't stand the smell and aggravation. Consequently, he is very limited these days, and it makes him angry. A total cipher.

[Cleita]

33. My parents didn't smoke, but it was hard to be anywhere

that there wasn't second hand smoke when I grew up, even in my own home, when we had visitors. I think this is why many, who didn't smoke, ended up with asthma and other lung diseases anyway.

Considering what we know about tobacco smoke today, I think parents who smoke around their children don't realize the effects especially when their developing little lungs are trying to cope with air pollution as well.

[Pool Hall Ace]

14. To answer your questions:

No, you are perfectly justified in feeling that way. And no, common sense seems to be rapidly dying out.

It's kind of dishearting to learn that; I sometimes will choose to sit in the smoking section in order to avoid the kid ruckus.

[jus_the_facts]

16. They got poisoned much worse in the CAR on the way to that place....

....breathed much more toxic air from their vehicle exhaust and the thousands of other vehicles on the road on the way there and home....the cigarettes are a much smaller problem for the health of their lungs when looking at the bigger picture. :banghead:

[Warren DeMontague]

20. That is absolutely ridiculous. And even if it's true...

why add to it by foisting your smoke on the kids?

Oh, I forgot... gotta go through manic contortions to justify the addictive behavior.


To hear the smokers' defensiveness brigade tell it, cigarette smoke is full of nothing but vitamin C... and good, homespun looooooove. Well, shit, my dad died of lung cancer, and it was from Joe Camel-- it sure as hell wasn't from driving on the freeway.

[karlrschneider]

28. Let's see: one medium sized car with a 120 HP 4 cyl engine

running at a normal speed, 2000 RPM. Assume about 2 liter displacement (typical)...that's ~4000 liters, or 900 gallons of carbon dioxide/monoxide/sulfur dioxide and a few other noxious fumes every minute... You are driving down the freeway amongst a hundred of these belching machines each of which is producing similar amounts of pollution and you're focusing on a couple of humans with lung capacities of around a quart each... Got it.

Now, I don't blame you for reacting to the stink of tobacco smoke nor do I think you should have to endure it, but get a little perspective.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. I drive a fuel efficient car--- as little as possible.

I will not argue that cars, particularly monster trucks and SUVs, which have no regulation, are not an environmental problem. Are smokers an environmental problem, outside? No. (provided they don't start a fire by tossing a butt out a car window, which I see people do during fire season in California all the time)...but, then, no one is advocating that people should be allowed to run their car engines inside a restaurant, either, are they?

I don't give a shit if people smoke- OUTSIDE. Inside an enclosed area is a totally different story.

[jus_the_facts]

39. The carbon monoxide emissions from all the cars he drove in his lifetime..

....times all the other people on the planet that've been on the road has and is killing many more people than cigarettes...they're just another in a long line of things we're being poisoned with on a daily basis..chemicals of all sorts...forms and fashions...cigarettes just one in a long line of other addictions that we consumers are helping kill ourselves and our environment with...s'all relative in the grand scheme of those manic contortions to justify the addictive behavior

[Warren DeMontague]

40. That's right- the planetary behavior around the global petroleum addiction

is getting more and more dangerous and bizarre. Denial, violence, increasing obsessiveness about "securing" the "supply".

No arguments here.

But the difference pertinent to this thread is, people run their cars OUTSIDE. I don't give a shit if people smoke like chimneys- OUTSIDE. When people feel the need to light up inside and force their kids to breathe that shit in, too... yeah, I consider that a form of child abuse. It was done to me before my folks could have known better, but now there's no excuse.

[jus_the_facts]

46. Just one in a long list of reasons I don't have kids......

.....I chose not to pass the trait of nicotine addiction on to any offspring...that way they won't have to live in the cesspool this planet will be in the future....if people would just realize how less polluted the world would be without adding so many more kids to it so fast...some social issues like smoking might be able to be rectified eventually...but doesn't appear we're capable of slowing down and thinking rationally long enough...now excuse me while I selfishly light up and hasten my own demise from all this humanity insanity!!! :dilemma: :smoke: :dilemma:

[anitar1]

56. Right--I am chiming in again, And I can hardly stand

to be in traffic these days. We have more and more traffic here and it is horrible smelling the exhaust fumes. I carry my inhaler with me at all times. I do not go out often in order to protect myself.I try to do all my errands in one day so I do not have to be out there breathing exhaust fumes.The fumes bring asthma attacks.IMO, Car exhaust is much worse than cigarette smoke. I would not want to be a prisoner to smoke but I don't think any of us are prisoners to it. Yes, some children are --but let's make it illegal, and take the children away from their parents. And those of you who agree to that can take a few of those children to raise.Think of how good you will feel to rescue those poor kids.I think that is the answer.

[anitar1]

55. Are you seriously saying that nothing else

contributes to dimished lung capacity? Nothing else on this earth contibutes to that? Tell me . I am not defending smokers, but our planet is overloaded with pollution. It is ludricous to blame everything on cigarettes.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. No, I don't think I ever said that.

Who is "blaming everything on cigarettes"?

But there is absolutely no doubt that it was the camel unfiltereds that put my dad in the ground--- not something else.

It's not so much blaming everything on cigarette smoke -indoor cigarette smoke- as it is smokers who aren't capable of blaming anything on it... or even recognizing it as a problem.

It's astounding; you come out against indoor cigarette smoke as a health hazard, and suddenly you're being accused of defending SUVs, deforestation, nuclear waste... mind-boggling.

[UdoKier]

21. Smoking section in a restaurant? What's that?

Haven't seen one in California in 15 years...

[Logansquare]

26. How about breastfeeding your child while smoking?

My SIL told me that she caught her brother's wife doing that. Shit, just give the baby a cigarette at that point. That woman eventually ran away with a teenage boy, but not before stunting her kid's growth.

[lonestarnot]

30. Yep... you need to mind your own business.

[Dorian Gray]

35. After 13 years as a smoker,

I am now two months smoke free. I also live in a state where no smoking is allowed in restaurants, and it always throws me when you are allowed to smoke with meals. It's something that I don't think I've ever done, out of respect to my fellow patrons.

But, I do know a lot of people in our generation who were brought up by smoking parents who would chain smoke and keep the car windows shut in the winter. It sucks. I would not do it, especially with everything I know now. But at one point, it was quite common. I'm happy to see that it is UNCOMMON to bring children anywhere near smoke today. (Though I do think wanting to smack the parents is a bit over the top, it's how I feel when I see parents endangering their kids lives in other situations. So, I can definitely sympathize.)

[Mythsaje]

41. Ah, jeez...

The right wants to claim our souls, the left wants to claim our bodies.

What's left for us to claim?

I forced my ex to smoke outside after our oldest was born, except for the occasional cig she'd sneak in the bathroom when he was in bed. I spent my childhood subjected to it and didn't want to have to worry about it.

But when people go so far as to DICTATE what happens in an establishment patronized by adults--like a bar--giving no say to the property owner and those among the staff and patrons who might well smoke, I think a certain line has been crossed.

Tyranny, be it in the name of God or Public Welfare, is still tyranny. Deciding one has the right to dictate to other people what their behavior will be is tyranny, no matter how you slice it.

Forcing people to conform to YOUR standard of behavior is just as wrong no matter what side of the fence you're standing on.

And that's all I have to say about it.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. Look, no one is more in favor of personal freedom than me.

I don't care what consenting adults choose to do with their own bodies, in their own homes.

But asking smokers to go to the curb in a bar is not an undue fucking burden on a smoker. Period. Because one smoker inside a bar decides for everyone that they are going to be smoking that night. Their clothes are going to smell like a cross between mule shit and wet dog, and the persons working in the bar will be subjected to a hazardous work environment. And you know what? People in CA have had to smoke outside for some seven or eight years, now- even in bars- and the fucking sky has not fallen, even for the whiniest of petulant smokers. Shit, I wouldn't care if people wanted to shoot heroin in bars- as long as the act of doing it only subjected the individual to the dangerous chemicals and not everyone in the room... but that's the part the "smokers rights" brigade doesn't want to get- it's not JUST YOUR AIR.

So, you go outside to smoke- big f-cking deal. it's not going to kill you.

Jeez, yourself.

[anitar1]

57. Right on--This is the same as

the religious right in a way. I am not advocating smoking. But I do see the self rightousness of non smokers condeming smokers as the same type of condemnation as fundies about other matters.

[KTM]

44. These threads are so tired.

What a waste of energy.

"smokers suck, blah blah, evil, dirty, nasty, stoopid habit {people}.. hate hate hate hate, holier than thou, fuck you."

Then you come trash the "indignant smoker brigade". (I'll stop the cycle and spare you the equivalent trashing of the "I'm perfect, please keep your mirrors away" brigade.)

Pfffffft.

Smoke at home. Smoke in your car. Smoke on the street. Smoke wherever you want. Smoke in bars. Smoke in restaurants.

OR...

Dont. Dont ride with them. Dont go to their house. Eat somewhere else.

Do what you wish. I'll not impose my will on you, you dont on me. I know your argument.. save it. Whaaa.. "but xxxx bad habit of MINE doesnt poison the person next to me... and I have a right to go to that restaurant if I want {choose ?} to, and they should ban smokers so I can enjoy it more."

Pfffft.

Dont like smoke in restaurants ? Choose a different one.
Dont like smoky bars ? Go elsewhere.

I dont like crazy fundies. I dont go to their church.
I dont like kids. I dont eat at Chuck-e-Cheese.
I dont like heavily floral scents. "Um, I'm going out on the deck, Grammy.."

Quit trying to force your choices on others - thats what the neo-fascist Christo-zombies do, and we all hate it. Your particular choice of moral force-feeding isnt any better.


---Edit--

Whiny and petulant ?? Reread your own post.. maybe I DO need to get that mirror...

Mythsaje, you said it perfectly.

[spacelady]

49. Thank you, this is a tired subject, let's agree to disagree,

smoking is not illegal, think I'll go ahead & light one up.
Perhaps those kids who are never allowed to play in dirt, never allowed to pet an animal, never allowed to play with other kids who might have a cold or an ear infection, never allowed to experience ANYTHING that might allow them to come into contact with a germ or even an experience will have a very rude awakening immunity-wise when they venture out into the world.

edited to add that I replied to you because you said it well;
I should have directed this to the original post!

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Fine. Don't Like California?

I suggest you stay away, because my opinion on the matter notwithstanding, you're going to be oh-so-imposed upon by not being able to smoke in bars and restaurants. Waaaaaah!

Jesus. There's a difference between "moral force-feeding" and saying that you can do whatever the hell you want with your own body, but asking you to smoke OUTSIDE really isn't such a fucking huge burden.

Except it is, for the poor, oppressed smokers who always show up to bitch and moan in these threads... I really think they think that shit smells like roses, or they just don't notice it. Believe me, the rest of us do.

Yeah, my dad died a fucking horrible death from lung cancer. Excuse me for having a fucking "whiny and petulant" opinion on this matter that doesn't gel with your "I should be able to light up anywhere- even right in your face, asshole" attitude.

[devilgrrl]

47. You can still smoke in restaurants?

Where?

[Dave Reynolds]

48. I saw a anti-smoking ad today,

it said "Having a smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as having a peeing section in a pool" or something to that effect.

[REP]

50. Kids Don't Belong In Smoking Sections

Those are for adults. There should be a few places where one can escape children in public, and smoking sections are one of them.

I grew up with two smokers; still waiting for the SIDS to kick in.

[tenshi816]

58. I grew up in a smoking household

and hated it.

When I was really small, I didn't like it when my mother kissed me because I thought she smelled bad. I used to think it was a "grown-up" thing (that maybe that was just the way adults smelled) but as I got older I realized it was that Mom smelled like cigarettes, her breath, clothes, hair, all of her.

Everything in our house smelled like cigarette smoke, probably including me.

My dad gave up smoking before I was 10, but my mother and stepfather continued to smoke (2+ packs a day each). I too remember what it was like to be on a car journey on a cold day with the windows rolled up and the car full of smoke.

When I was old enough to leave home, I made my apartment a smoke-free zone and refused to have ashtrays. When my mom and stepfather visited, they ignored my wishes and even brought their own ashtrays with them so that they could smoke in my place. If I told them to take it outside, they just laughed at me.

My mother died of lung cancer in 1998, 2 days after her 65th birthday.

As some other posters have said, if people want to smoke, fine, have at it, I have no wish to stop you. On the other hand, I don't want to share your smoke; I've already had enough of it in my lifetime.

[Maine-ah]

59. Maine has banned smoking in bars/restaurants

which I think is a good idea, even though some bar owners have lost money because of it, and I have noticed a lot more cig butts on the side street in front of the local bar. I am also a smoker.

Now, when I go to the bar, or even drive past, I can see through the windows that some parents are now taking their children (some still babies) with them drinking, which I think is just as dangerous.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Wow. In california you have to be 21 to be in a bar.

Weird.

All I can say vis a vis the smoking ban is, I used to drink with a lot of smokers back when the ban went into effect. They griped and moaned and swore they would boycott the bars, and two weeks later they were all adapted to going outside to smoke. The bar business here is doing FINE.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. With what we know about the noxious fumes that cars belch out, I am

amazed that we even let our children outside...

Non smoker here, totally for smoker's rights. Unless one is riding a bike, one cannot complain about it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. And...on edit, My children eat in smoking sections all the time. We say

no preference. It is stupid to think that the only pollutant in the world is cigarette smoke.

[Bouncy Ball]

64. Well, with what we know about second-hand smoke it isn't too smart.

Are they there because they want to smoke? (The parents, not the kids, LOL.)

My dad smoked around me all the time from the time I was born until I was about six or seven, never thought a thing about it. But that was many years ago and people didn't know the dangers as much.