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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 07:50 AM
Original message
CSPAN Friday AM Pam Hess with Brian Lamb
I don't know why I torture myself so by watching this. Any fellow masochists out there? I have never heard someone talk about death and destruction with such glee. She talks about casualties and the living conditions like she just came back from summer camp.

What's interesting people are really calling her on it.
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rwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. She had the nerve
to say congress should have asked tougher questions in the lead up to the war.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's the one that REALLY got me
Her defense of Bush and Rumsfeld was outrageous. No they really didn't say those things and you can't really blame them. Congress should have asked better questions. :wtf:
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messiah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. Did
Edited on Fri Sep-19-03 08:03 AM by messiah
someone call-in and say that she was a "fucking whore"?.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. did you hear the guy
ask her where she saw more "camel toe" - in Iraq or the Jerry Springer show? LOL!
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BigMcLargehuge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
28. I heard that on the rebroadcast..
LOL...

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!...
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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. In case you missed the earlier part
this am - Brian showed the deck of cards of Democrats and read all the hate articles about Hillary. I tried to get in and ask if we shouldn't have a deck of cards for Kenneth Starr's blonde "smut sluts", to include their chicken hawk lovers, the joker being george bush. Courtesy of the impeachment managers. Was a very bad 30 minutes first thing this am.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. OK, I turned on C-SPAN after her interview was in progress so

maybe I missed something but I wasn't hearing her the same way you were. After I read your post, I replayed her interview (the wonders of TiVo!)

The first observation I'd make is that she was nervous and that seemed to cause her to smile inappropriately (inappropriately because she did it while talking about serious matters.) She also "talks with her hands" much too much for "serious television news" (though that in itself is an oxymoron, isn't it?) and she touches her air (big no-no on camera.) However, she is a correspondent for UPI, not trained to appear on television to read the news. TiVo can only replay the portion I watched, not go to the beginning of the program when my tv wasn't on, but I'm sitting here rewatching all I did see and transcribing her exact words in parts of the segment.

The first call I heard was a man saying "You're sitting there all happy and bouncy and smiling, where the hell is your outrage?" She replied, quite correctly in my opinion, "It's not my job to get outraged." She went on to say that her job was like that of the reporter for Stars & Stripes who covered the story about them (obviously wounded GIs) having to pay for their hospital meals, meaning her job is to report the story, and "It's your job to get outraged." I agree with her, she's a reporter, not a commentator, not an editorialist.

On the issue of WMD in Iraq, she asserted that we (reporters) at the Pentagon (which is where I was) "were pinning those officials down on 'Where's the imminent threat? What has changed in the last six months that all of a sudden is under a much greater threat from Saddam Hussein? And Rumsfeld eventually in each of these briefings would get around to saying 'There is no smoking gun. Nothing has really changed except for our sense of vulnerability.' So as far as that's concerned, I don't think that anyone should necessarily be surprised that we're finding out now that there wasn't an imminent threat because I don't think there was. I think that if anybody, if anybody failed, if anyone failed, it was Congress for not questioning that more, because they're the only ones that have any, any sort of power to do that on the White House."

I read the first reply to your thread, and your reply to that -- both of you angry at Ms. Hess's statement about Congress. But is she wrong? If her recollection of "Rumsfeld eventually in each of these briefings would get around to saying 'There is no smoking gun. Nothing has really changed except for our sense of vulnerability" is accurate -- and if she reported it that way for UPI at the time -- is she wrong to say Congress should have questioned it more? The administration used a lot of exaggeration and scare tactics ("What if we do nothing until the smoking gun is a mushroom cloud?") and got that message out a lot on news talk shows, etc., but were the wire services accurately reporting that Rumsfeld said only our sense of vulnerability was changed and there was no smoking gun? Shouldn't Congress look more critically at news, look for actual reporting without editorializing?

Next, Brian Lamb asked her if the Iraqi situation will ever be solved and she thinks it will, despite any bad or good done by the US, if security can be improved. She spoke of the Iraqi people being intelligent and well-educated. Then a guy called in from Harleysville, PA, said "Good morning to everyone there at C-SPAN." Brian said "Go ahead," and this class act said, "Miss Hess, fuckin' ho." Brian apologized and from what he said, it seemed this was not the first call of that sort during the interview, which would tend to make her nervous if she wasn't to begin with.

Next, she answered questions from Brian and talked well about troops relating better to Iraqis in the smaller towns, where security is better, and about the curfew and its impact on people's lives. Normally, because of the great heat most of the year, Iraqi people stay inside most of the day and go out at night, eating dinner between 11 p.m. and 4 a.m., but now there's an 11 p.m. curfew so restaurants have suffered, etc.

Ms. Hess was very emotional about the August 7 shooting of the Iraqi family at a checkpoint but she smiled while she was first talking about it, apparently smiling to try to keep her composure, because her voice was breaking and she seemed about to burst into tears. Later, when Brian brought her back to the topic and she was discussing the surviving family suing the US, she was more in control and talked without inappropriate smiling or seeming to be on the verge of losing control. In her first telling of the story, though, she explained that soldiers would set up temporary checkpoints that were unlighted (no electricity) and in Baghdad it's common to see men standing around with guns so at night Iraqis couldn't be sure who the armed troops were. Also in Baghdad there are many carjackings, so Iraqis are very wary. That explains a lot about the misunderstandings behind many incidents -- why Iraqis would drive through checkpoints. What I got from her was that she understood the viewpoints of the troops and the Iraqis.

The call from the woman who said "liberals who'd been calling" were "slaves to the mainstream media" and "weren't hearing the propaganda they wanted to hear" from Ms. Hess ("but I love my soldiers") was strange. I guess she thought Ms. Hess was on her side. I didn't think that Pamela Hess was taking sides -- and loved it when she said it didn't have anything to do with liberals, etc.

So, what did I miss? I realize she works for UPI, which is owned by Moon, but what she said didn't seem slanted to me. And Helen Thomas continued working for UPI for years after Moon bought it and she's never been one not to tell it like it is.


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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The first 30 minutes of C-Span
was a "hate Hillary" session - all right wing articles about how awful Hillary was and the "deck of cards" with the Democrats - nothing but sheer hate - was supposed to be just Democratic callers and they were all Repuke callers. Was really a bash Hillary, Clark, Clinton for the whole 30 minutes. That part may have set everyone off when Hess came on. I'm an avid watcher and caller of C-Span but couldn't believe that first 30 minutes this am. Was really bad.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Thanks for posting again about this -- I'd read your first post but
t
his is even more informative. Was this Brian Lamb? Letting all GOP callers on? He always cuts off a Dem if he gets two Dem calls in a row. I'm glad I missed this!
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. No. Lamb let only Democrats call in about Hillary.
Conservatives then called in later to bitch they weren't allowed to call in. But yes, the deck of cards put out by Human Events was disgusting and I can't believe he showed them. Maybe he was flame baiting...but no one that called in even mentioned them.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. It's Fascist Friday DBDB
typical stuff
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. All Repukes?
I watched that too, and i only suspected one fake Dem. More than half the callers encouraged a run by Hillary! At least two more said that they liked her, but were supporting Dean and didn't think she should further muddy the water.

So, i disagree with your assessment that all the callers were fake Dems.
The Professor
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leetrisck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. I guess I was a little surprised
that the callers bashed Hillary to hell and back and then would say they supported Dean or some other Democrat. That's why I thought they were faux callers.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. "Her job is to report"
I'd really like to see where Ms. Hess or any other DoD pool reporters played up Rumsfeld's comments that the reason for urgency on Iraq was the administration's increased sense of vulnerability, as she now claims.

I surely don't recall much reportage after the administration's new product line was rolled out in September 2002 about how Iraq wasn't an imminent threat, or that the main thrust for the push against Saddam was the administration feeling vulnerable. And what were they feeling vulnerable about? Descending poll numbers? Or some imagined threat to U.S. security.

So, what was Ms. Hess reporting? Did she allude to any of the stories she filed? Was she standing on the rooftops shouting that the whole thing was a scam, or was she providing stenographer service to the Pentagon and the White House to back up their war drums? What was it, exactly, that she and her colleagues were reporting from September 2002 until March 2003?

I don't have the luxury of leaving my job on the West Coast and going to Rumsfeld's choreographed press clusterfucks, so I can't really ask any pointed questions of our appointed representatives. Part of Ms. Hess' job in reporting is also to ask questions. What questions did she ask Mr. Rumsfeld, and what answers did he give that she accepted as satisfactory?

Now, when it's becoming apparent that this corrupt administration didn't have a plan, Ms. Hess condescendingly tells the public that it's our job to be outraged, and she's just a {hair toss, giggle} reporter. Sorry Sweets, but that doesn't cut it. The popular media were in full frothing jingo mode from September 2002 through the onset of hostilities, and questions about the long term prospects in Iraq were shushed and ridiculed. For her to say now that it wasn't her job as a reporter to ask questions and get satisfactory answers is highly disingenuous, and abrogates her duty to the public.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. She didn't say it wasn't her job to ask questions, she said it wasn't

her job to be outraged. It's also not her job to play up Rumsfeld's comments (as suggested in your first post), only to report them. Commentators can and do play up -- or play down -- facts, quotes, etc. The press you're criticizing for pumping up war fever was not UPI or AP, they were people paying up (or down) facts gleaned from AP & UPI and other sources.

Was her reporting accurate? Did she ask hard questions? I have no idea. But I don't think people criticizing her have any idea, either. She irritates some people with her on-air persona, she didn't irritate me and I don't see the reason for the anger coming from others.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I just read your account
And it seemed to me that Ms. Hess was all for excusing her own diligence (or lack thereof), but putting it on the public to be outraged now. It sounds like she's been affected by what she saw in Iraq, which is to the good. But from your account, it sounds like she hasn't drawn any line between her and her colleagues' lack of reporting zeal during the run-up to war and what she had to see in Iraq as a result. I'm not as willing to let her off the hook for failing to ask the tough questions as she seems to be.

Her job as a reporter is indeed to report. It is also her job as a reporter to exercise some judgment and not a little skepticism. The Department of Defense can put out its own press releases; reporters have a duty to go beyond those press releases and not serve as mere stenographers.
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. No, Helen Thomas quit UPI when Moon bought it because she refused to work
for him. She made it clear that is the reason why she quit. She has way too much integrity to work for that creepy weirdo.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I thought she stayed with them. Who did she work for after UPI?
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. She's writing editorials for the syndicated Knight Ridder, I believe. n/t
n/t
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. Helen Thomas
quit UPI when Moon took over, if this article is correct:

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?docu...

WASHINGTON — Helen Thomas, the grande dame of American journalism and for decades the public persona of the beleaguered wire service United Press International, said today she would leave UPI because of its sale to the news affiliate of the Unification Church.

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Thanks for the link.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. ugh...I seen her actually flush when talking about Rummy
Went on about how manly he was.
I think she was getting moist.

I've been unable to tolerate watching her ever since.

Bad, bad mental image. :puke:
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Anyone care to respond to my first post? I can't figure out what's

going on here.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Apparently she WAS called on whatever she said.
And since my perception is that she is one of the worst of the media whores, I take that as a sign that there are more and more people that are "Mad as Hell!"

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I've never seen her before but she accredited herself well in the

portion of the interview that I saw. She didn't come across as a media whore.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I agree with your assessment.
I do not think she is a shill. I believe she is just an awkward geeky sort of person who doesn't handle the camera well. I think she really tries to stay objective.

I felt really badly for her when she was clearly fighting tears...relating the story of civilian deaths and the incredibly rude people calling in. She is no Tim Russert.

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Thanks, that's how I saw her and I felt badly for her, too. She was

clearly upset when she talked about the family that was shot to death. Did she say anything earlier in the interview to incur all this wrath?
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I missed the beginning of her interview.
However, I was also "put off" by her smiling while talking about Iraq. Then I noticed she is just goofy. She seems nervous and uncomfortable on TV and seemed to be making inappropriate gestures out of insecurity rather than mean spiritedness.

I don't know whey everyone chose to call her an ugly fascist whore today...maybe the deck of cards shown earlier and the trashing of Clark and Hillary brought out people's anger and they took it out on her.

:shrug:

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nomaco-10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. For those interested, the Pam Hess interview is being replayed
Edited on Fri Sep-19-03 10:13 AM by nomaco-10
right now 11:10 est on C-Span right now.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Thanks, now I can see what I missed!
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-03 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. Well, it seems as if you are bending over backwards to be fair
But I guess I'm not feeling that generous. First of all, she is a reporter for UPI and that has an immediate taint to it. They, along with the Washington Times, are about as fair and balance as Fox and no self-respecting journalist would work for them. As others have pointed out, Helen immediately bailed on them and she now works for Hearst.

Secondly, if you don't have the composure to go on TV, don't go on TV. It's that easy. However, because she says the things Lamb likes to hear and I've watched long enough to see his Republican bias she gets asked on repeatedly. Why don't they have someone like Fisk as their special war correspondent. If she can't handle it, why has she been elevated to that status. If this was the first time she did this, I could see cutting her some slack. But this is how she has been every time she has been on and that's what has the regular viewers upset.

Finally, I don't condone those who called in with insults and called her names. Those are Repuke tactics that I don't think we should be engaged in that. I think we have the truth on our side and that should be sufficient.
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