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Anyone else have a "point system" at work?...no sick pay

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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:53 PM
Original message
Anyone else have a "point system" at work?...no sick pay
Edited on Sun May-15-05 06:54 PM by Roxy66
I work at a very huge retailer..(in the home improvement industry), and we are not allowed regular sick days. Employees get hit with points if they are not able to come in to work for what ever reason, such as if our kids are sick or in the hospital, or if we get extremely ill, no matter what the illness is. Employees are only allowed 10 points, then they can be fired. An employee gets 3 points if a child breaks their arm and a parent cant come in to work. Anyone else seeing this becoming a trend? I worked for another very well-known employer a while back whose policy was the same, and you had to use an FMLA form every time or points were applied, one reason I left. I was not told of this policy ay my current employer until later.
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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Do you get paid for the days you take off?
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. LOL! That was my thought too.
No sick days, no paid personal time, no health insurance, no retirement and after five years still only one week of vacation that can only be taken in the off season (winter).
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Yeah sure...lol
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. What I don't understand
is what the company is thinking of, not granting sick days. For one thing, it guarantees that employees will work sick, infecting others (and in this case, customers as well as fellow employees), not be very productive, and hate the company and perhaps do everything possible to sabotage things at work.

It's a stupid, stupid policy, and you should find a new job, one with some kind of sick time leave, as soon as possible.

If we had strong unions in this country we wouldn't have these idiotic, self-destructive policies.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Are the 10 points each year or for your whole employment time - say 25
years?

My sister worked at a place that "counseled" you when you missed work. They asked a girl that had been out because she a miscarriage "If she planned to miss anymore work." That became a sick joke "Do you PLAN to have a miscarriage where you will miss work"
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Just the year..but if your sick for a few days and one falls on a weekend.
there is 6 or 7 points against you right there.
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah, it's becoming a trend
just as no middle class anymore; just as Hitlerish propoganda being broadcast by all media; just as one religion being acceptable...etc. etc. etc.

I can't wait until 2008 gets here 'cause 1984 is scaring the hell out of me. :hide:
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. According to the FMLA...
an employer absolutely must have employees fill out the form if the leave falls under the categories in the FMLA. If they don't, they can get into major trouble. So, it's not the employer who is making folks fill out the form

Before I retired, I worked for a state agency and Personnel had training with all employees and pointed out how they were under the gun. If they didn't have us fill out the form when required, we could sue them. Just an FYI.

I never worked under the conditions you face. Things are getting really bad out there.
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bluedonkey Donating Member (644 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Call the 'Wage and Hour Board'
ask them if it's legal.It might not be if they didn't tell you about it.
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. Wife's company had that stupid system
Edited on Sun May-15-05 07:07 PM by ThoughtCriminal
She lost a bonus for missing a few days for heart surgery. I'm happy to say they went bankrupt soon after she left.

A guaranteed way to make sure that employees will neglect serious health problems that could have been prevented with early treatment.
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n2mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. the last I heard
but will catch up on Wednesday when I meet with my previous staff, my place of employment before retirement a year, provided sick time ( an excellent amount which could be carried over), vacation time, could be carried over and grandfathered. Excellent health care, they had an excellent pension plan, and when you retired received your accrued vacation time, and a percentage of your accrued sick time.

My place of employment equaled the amount I invested into the pension plan, they provided life insurance, dental insurance was available, there was medical insurance available, probably not the best Blue Cross. My retirement offers me Pacific Care and comfortable with this more then Blue Cross.

But, I really don't visit a doctor very much, I don't have a lot of knowledge about Pacific Care. Most people I know seem to like them.
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n2mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Kick
This is interesting.
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. My wife (who's in HR) just started at a place like this
and she just told me it "very common" in the manufacturing world.

No actual sick days, and sanctions for "unexcused" absenses. Basically, it means come to work sick.

That's just insane, in my view. These people want people who operated power and welding equipment to come in with a 103 degree fever, and them possibly amputate something at work?

To get any protection from FMLA, you would have to have a qualifyingly grave condition. If you've paid any attention to where the courts have been going with ADA, if you didn't die and you're back at work complaining about the point system, you probably dont' qualify for FMLA.

Capitalism has run amok. I'm not against a free market or private enterprise, but the system we have now is a malignancy that must be treated or society as we know it will die.

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Fescue4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. I get 5 weeks a year.
I can use'm for sick days or vacation days.

I.e. if I don't call in sick, I get extra vacation.

On the other hand, if I call in sick all the time, then no vacation.

I find this works quite well.

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. I had a neighbor whose employer had a 'point' system. She stayed home
... with her kids when they had Chicken Pox, and was fired.

Parents are condemned if they have to be at work & are unable to tend to their child's needs, while at the same time, punished when they do tend to their child's needs... daycare & nannies are not affordable options to many parents. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT KIND OF A LIFE OUR CHILDREN HAVE A RIGHT TO WHEN THEY ARE SO EASILY MARGINALIZED???
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justgamma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. We used to have 3 paid personal days,
Edited on Sun May-15-05 09:11 PM by justgamma
but you had to give the company 3 days notice if you were going to use them.
Now we get 3 unpaid days off with no points.
2 points for days missed.
3 points if you don't call in.
1 point if your in the hospital.
We can earn the points back. 1 point for every month you work with no absence.
If you must leave early it's 1 point and if you're late it's 1 point

10 is 3 days off with no pay
12 you're out the door.

We are union and absolutely no say in this.

I used the Family leave act when my husband was deathly ill. Was off for a month with no pay. Thank God for that, I don't know what we would have done without it.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. You know...I contacted the teamsters Union, and they did nothing..
When I worked for the "Heinz" Corporation/ Ore-Ida, our Union leader was trying to get the big-wigs in Washington (Teamsters) to do something...but they seemed to be in their pockets as well....by the way I wonder if Theresa knows of her companies employment practices?!!
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Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. The last place I worked...we had to earn UNPAID time off!
There was no paid time off at all.
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jandrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. We have a point system
But it's rare to see someone get canned because of it. It takes a while to rack up the numbers, and the only people who get penalized are those who have serious absenteeism.

Employees can challenge a point as well, and extenuating circumstances can be taken into consideration.

The biggest challenge with these types of systems is enforcing them fairly. There has to be objective assignment of points, otherwise individual supervisors and managers will take a subjective approach to how points are assigned.

It sucks, but like any system, people have learned both how to live with it and subvert it.
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. O.k.......so you think this is a fair system...Must not be a SINGLE MOTHER
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jandrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Ummmmm, like I was saying......
It CAN BE a fair system if it's administered correctly. My point is that systems like this are prone to the pitfall of subjective administration.

You're right, I'm not a single parent, but I have the utmost in respect for single parents.

But I also have to play Devil's Advocate for a minute and ask a few simple questions for due diligence. Point systems in and of themselves are fair, IF they are administered correctly. They have held up to legal challenges, and a lot of companies are moving to them. They're fair because they take the subjective administration of absenteeism OUT of the supervisor's hands and place it into a program that is standardized and objective across all employees. WHEN IT'S RUN CORRECTLY.

Question #1: Do you think that you have been treated unfaily by this system becuase you are a single parent?

Question #2: Can you prove it? Are there any observable instances of someone being treated differently than anyone else under this program? If so, you have a legitimate case.

Look at it from the employer's perspective. Absenteeism costs companies a lot of money in lost productivity. It places higher burdens on co-workers and can be a negative factor in overall morale.

I've worked under a point system for 7 years now, and I have yet to see anyone get fired for circumstances that were truly out of their control. That goes for single parents as well as anyone else. The people who got hurt by the system were the serial absentees, the folks who just didn't wanna come to work in the morning.
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Just remember - if you have a meeting with the big boss...
bring something contagious and nasty!
:puke: :hurts:
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Dee625 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. Makes me feel a bit guilty
I'm lucky enough to work in healthcare with paid accrued sick leave. If you accrue a certain number of hours (takes about 4 years with no time taken) you get a bonus check for the extra hours but keep enough in your "bank" in case you need it and start accruing again.

I have a friend who works in manufacturing and has the point system you refer to. She was given points for not being able to get to work when it was illegal to be on the roads during a state of emergency(weather).

Inhuman.
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bdot Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
24. They don't even try that here.
We are vendors (which as my manager told me is worse than be contractors). Since most of us are people who had their job Bushized, they know better than to screw with us. They don't keep track of sick days. It's the only place I've been at that at least 1 person calls in each day. You can expect 1 of the ladies to be out at least once every week.
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