Sunday London Times: Israel Plans Strike on Iran

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans for a combined air and ground attack on targets in Iran if diplomacy fails to halt the Iranian nuclear programme.

The inner cabinet of Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, gave "initial authorisation" for an attack at a private meeting last month on his ranch in the Negev desert.


Israeli forces have used a mock-up of Iran's Natanz uranium enrichment plant in the desert to practise destroying it. Their tactics include raids by Israel's elite Shaldag (Kingfisher) commando unit and airstrikes by F-15 jets from 69 Squadron, using bunker-busting bombs to penetrate underground facilities.

The plans have been discussed with American officials who are said to have indicated provisionally that they would not stand in Israel's way if all international efforts to halt Iranian nuclear projects failed.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1522978,00.html

[lovuian]

1. Will they strike in June thats the rumor!!!

its getting closer and closer!!!

[paineinthearse]

2. The ONLY way Israel can reach Iran with a full bomb load

...is with US mid-air refueling support.

Their first line attack planes are F-15's. Stripped down or maybe with a SPITBALL or two, they could make the round trip flight.

[Purveyor]

5. Indeed, they must refuel to carry any sizeable payload....

In Iraq.

Of course Iran has intell in Iraq to alert them to such activities. Even a comm blackout should be a clue to Iran.

[quaoar]

9. Israel has cruise missile capability

And they can be launched from submarines.

[Zynx]

13. These are Harpoons - they have virtually no range.

[6th Borough]

43. I believe they also have Israeli designed "Popeye" class sub launched...

missles, though I don't know the range on them.

[jpak]

58. The Popeye has a range of 1500 km

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/missile/popeye-t.htm

They are part of Israel's nuclear triad - aircraft delivered nukes, ground-based (Jericho series) missile delivered nukes and the Dolphin-class sub cruise missiles.

They probably won't be used in a strike against Iran.

[Selatius]

18. F-15Es have the range to reach Iran. The US sold them to Israel.

They can do it carrying a payload. The US would still need to give them permission to use Iraqi airspace.

[Purveyor]

25. They can get there in an F-15, but they can't get back...

without refuel.

Do we now propose israeli "homicide bombers"???

[Selatius]

62. A mistake I made earlier. They were F-15Is, not Es.

From all the reports I've read, the F-15Is are the only planes with the range to reach Iran. Given that they may also send in elite commando units to finish off what the IAF fails to do, it could be very possible that once the US-supplied bunker busters are dropped, the planes will be destroyed, while the pilots eject to be picked up by the commando units.

[Renew Deal]

27. I read that Isreal will do this themselves.

They will fly through the Red Sea, south of the Saudi Peninsula and north into the Persian Gulf\Iran.

[BornLeft]

38. I have seen a few sources

saying Israel may have 5 kc-707, and if i am not mistaken almost any aircraft can carry a drop tank with drogue refueling? I seriously would be shocked if the usa would actively help in this one, but these nimrods have the talent of doing the unspeakable.

[ixion]

42. shocked that the US would help? We've enabled them

where do you think they're getting the F-15's and bunker busters from?

[BornLeft]

45. I believe i said

active involvement. This kind of "passive help" has been going on for decades. I believe any plan to directly engage in help with the IAF ie refueling for them would be a catastrophe. You think other countries would really let that one slip by? But as i said these criminals do have the propensity to do the unthinkable.

[jpak]

59. If the US allows Israel to use Iraqi airspace

there will be some serious blowback from Iraqi man-on-the-street.

The current chaos will look like a church picnic in comparison....

Israel also has close military ties with Turkey - and the Turks probably do not want a nuclear armed Iran on their border.

Would the Turks allow Israeli aircraft to use their airspace???

Who knows...

[ixion]

99. I guess we're making a semantic distinction

I can understand your reasoning behind the phrase 'passive involvement' in the context in which you're using it.

I disagree, however, that selling a known aggressor rogue state a 'bunker buster' bomb is a 'passive' act, in and of itself.

As Einstein said: "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."

Selling weaponry is preparation, which (by my definintion) is active.

Just wanted you to see my POV on this.

[makhno]

60. They do

Check out the photos page at scramble.nl.

[Purveyor]

3. When israel starts issuing gas-masks and...

holding "safe-room" drills, then you shall know that the shit is about to hit the fan.

Right now, there are no indications that this public preparation is taking place.

[Skip Intro]

4. What if Iran had secret plans to attack Israel's nuclear weapons -

why would that be different?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. How would they accomplish that?

Israel's internal security is world class. They teach us how to do it, so a ground attack that would be successful would be highly improbable. Also, Iran's air force is almost non-existant. Just a few planes left over from the days of the Shah, cobbled together from parts. Also, they too would need mid-air refueling capabilities. Who has that available?

No, I do not think that Iran is going to mount an attack. Do you know something about their capabilities that you want to share?

[Purveyor]

7. Iran says Shahab-3 missile entirely Iranian, production ongoing

Published: 5/5/2005

TEHRAN - Iran said Thursday its Shahab-3 medium-range ballistic missiles was entirely comprised of locally-made parts and that production was continuing.

"The Shahab-3 missile is entirely Iranian and has been designed by the domestic specialists," Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani was quoted as saying by state television.

Production "is continuing", the report added.

Iran has recently upgraded the Shahab-3 ballistic missile, believed to be based on a North Korean design, to have a range of at least 2,000 kilometres (about 1,200 miles) -- leaving arch-enemy Israel and US bases in the region well within range.

Tehran's steady progress on its ballistic missile programme is a major cause for concern among the international community, particularly Israel, which is already alarmed over Iran's nuclear activities.


05/05/2005 14:26 GMT

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. Has it been fired?

Is it operational?

On edit: Independent confirmation of its being operational would be helpful in this. Just the statements of the US and Israel are not going to be enough. Way too many lies muddying the waters already. Proven lies.

[jayfish]

19. It Has.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/shahab-3.htm

<SNIP>
6. On 04 July 2002, the Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz reported that Iran had successfully tested the Shahab-3 intermediate-range ballistic missile in previous days. The test was described as the most successful of seven or eight launches over the previous five years.
7. On July 7, 2003, Iran confirmed that it had conducted a final test on the Shahab-3. The missle has a reported range of 1,300 kilometers, bringing Israel within its reach.
8. On 11 August 2004 Iran conducted a test of the Shahab-3. The missile and warhead were described as, “smaller and designed as a bottle-neck in a throwback to U.S. and Soviet intercontinental ballistic missiles of the 1960’s.” The warhead was changed from a conical design to the shape resembling a baby bottle.
9. On 20 October 2004 Iran conducted a test of the Shahab-3. Minister of Defense and Armed Forces Logistics Rear Admiral Ali Shamkhani said the Defense Ministry has upgraded the former version of Shahab 3 guided missiles and test fired it in the military exercise called `defense shield exercise`.
</SNIP>

Jay

[Frederik]

37. It's not US and Israel, but Iran who's claiming this.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

53. Here's a credible link...

<http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/shahab3.htm>

QUOTE:

Launches: 7. Failures: 2. Success Rate: 71.43% pct. First Launch Date: 22 July 1998. Last Launch Date: 20 October 2004. Launch data is: incomplete. Apogee: 150 km. Liftoff Thrust: 255.00 kN. Total Mass: 14,500 kg. Core Diameter: 1.19 m. Total Length: 14.82 m. Standard warhead mass: 700 kg. Maximum range: 1,200 km. Boost Propulsion: Storable liquid rocket. Guidance: Inertial.

[makhno]

41. It's a longer-range Scud

It's completely useless, even to terrorize a population, without an NBC warhead.

[Skip Intro]

12. No no no - you're not hearing me

I'm asking why is it "acceptable" (to the "free world" I guess) that Israel can have nukes and her "neighbors" cannot, and why is it acceptable that Israel can attack her neighbors to see that they don't.

Why is that ok?

If you subtituted Iran for Israel, and vice versa , in this report, we'd be bombing tomorrow.

Why does one country have the right, and one does not?

[gumby]

16. "We Won! We Won!"

"Now we can do anything we want."

That's the explaination I hear all the time from the neocon/theocrats.

Neocon/Theocrats have no use or desire for critical/compassionate thinking. In fact, to do so makes one a 'wimp.' Brute force is the alter where they worship.

[lala_rawraw]

31. Stop... you are confusing Israel

With American versions of Israel. This small country is a client state like the rest. They need US protection...from US created threats. Israel does not attack...it is forced to defend. Logic.

[Colorado Blue]

63. Maybe people feel sentimental about a nation that is smaller

than Massachusetts, which was built from the remnants of the Holocaust and the previous 2,000 years of persecution, which is surrounded by enemies, is a Western democracy, and is frequently threatened with extinction.

OK? You would prefer a second Holocaust?

Maybe you would at that.

[funnymanpants]

66. And that

is in violation of over 70 United Nations Security Council Resolutions; and that has members in its government who talk openly about ethnically cleansing a native population from its land.

I could go on and on.

I don't feel that sentimental. Israel is the agressor, not the victim.

[Colorado Blue]

73. It is easier to get a UN resolution against Israel than it is

to go to the john.

Perhaps that is because the UN member nations represent 1.3 billion Muslims vs. 6 million Jews, Arabs and Christians? Perhaps because the vicious antisemitism that has killed millions of Jews didn't die with World War II?

These wars were not sought by Israel.

Please read the links I've provided below before you judge. I have lots more if you're interested. I also suggest you read some books about the oil companies and Nazi Germany, its role in forming the Middle East of today, as well as the British Empire and the role of "dhimmi" Jews and Christians - and other minorities - in the Middle East.

I doubt that you have a CLUE about the fact that the entire Middle East has been "ethnically cleansed" of its Jewish communities. That's right, approximately 1,000,000 Jewish people were expelled from their ancient communities in the Middle East after 1948. And the fact is, far from "cleansing" anybody, Israel is trying to WITHDRAW from the terrorities. They have just empowered Palestinian wanted men to join security services and bear arms, in advance of withdrawing from more West Bank towns.

What is actually going to happen, is that JEWS are going to be ethnically cleansed from Gaza and the West Bank, leaving them practically defenseless, with borders that are only about 6 miles across.

This is a gut wrenching ordeal for Israelis, who have had communities on the West Bank for several thousand years - long before the word "Palestinian" was even a term in a known language, long before Rome was a muddy little village, thousands of years before Yasser Arafat was even born.

Read:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/J...

I'd wager that you know very little about this situation yet you feel competent to judge.

I might add, Jews worldwide are being victimized by this demonization of Israel and the assumption that American Jews caused the War in Iraq.

I have news for you: we are frightened. That's right. Your fellow DU'ers are afraid of YOU. These attitudes are going to boomerang and hurt us badly, whether we live here or in Israel or in Europe. There are only 13 million of us worldwide, 2 million less than before the Holocaust.

So go read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_War_of_Independence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

Additional links:

http://countrystudies.us/russia/88.htm
http://countrystudies.us/israel/109.htm
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/MidEast/03/hern ...

http://library.thinkquest.org/20331/history/mideast.htm

These are just the bare bones. They suggest nothing of the human toll, and they do not cover the decades of terror that go back to the '20's.

They say nothing of the "Great Game", which plays on the continent of Asia as though it is a giant chessboard, the people themselves being meaningless.

If you seek a bogeyman, look to Washington, London, Moscow, Paris, Rome and Berlin. These are superpowers, which have victimized billions in their search for wealth and power. They turn little nations against each other, in order to keep control of huge regions of the globe.

Please do not demonize this small nation! And please stop demonizing ME.

[lala_rawraw]

82. Really?????

How the fuck so? Please explain in cogent detail because I think a good history lesson might do you some good.

[High Plains]

72. Nothing like throwing accusations of anti-semitism around

Give me a break. You can be "sentimental" about Israel if you wish. I choose not to be. That doesn't make me an anti-semite or someone who would prefer a second Holocaust.

Would you prefer that Israel provoke all-out war in the Middle East?

Maybe you would at that.

[Colorado Blue]

75. Please read some papers. Israel is not the one who is

trying to attack the entire Middle East.

Whose army is in Iraq? It is Israel's? Who owns the oil companies? Whose giant corporations are getting huge contracts to "rebuild" Iraq?

That would be the US and its allies, I think. I think also, one needs to be a little bit honest about ones role as a consumer of petroleum products, and as a member and beneficiary of this product which fuels our economy.

In other words, if you are looking for a scapegoat, look in the mirror. Drive a car? Enjoy the protection of the American military? Use plastic? Eat food that's been grown with petrochemical fertilizers?

You are a part of this war. Stop scapegoating.

That IS antisemitic. It's a very old, centuries old tactic and it will result in violence.

Please, be careful here. It's a SET UP.

Israel and Jews are being set up here. Think about Rove, who was able to gut a couple of war heroes and set Americans against each other.

You think they can't, or won't, do it to Jewish people and to Israel?

[lala_rawraw]

83. Again...

Creating conflict between the two Semite nations is America's big lie. Get a grip. How do you think the Holocaust happened? The money came from where in order for a bankrupt country to achieve this type of assault?

How was Israel created, by whom, and with what?

How does Israel survive?

How was Iraq created?

Learn some fucking history. This is anti-semitism, sorry, if you don't like your own reflection.

The only people provoking war are the American/Saudi circle of friends... they have done so with the Brits from the beginning. Do we forget Iran Contra so quickly?

Either give me specifics or get a grip.

[entanglement]

76. Don't you know it's the only democracy in the region?

:sarcasm:

[DireStrike]

86. It isn't acceptable. EOM

[nashville_brook]

98. US being a "diplomacy" kept this from happening for decades...

this is a huge failure and anyone paying attention to mideast politics feared this would happen sooner or later under. we've been waiting for it. if israel gets any further out of their "box" we're gonna wish for the good-old-days of the iraqi war.

[Toots]

36. They have Russian help

Russia and Iran enjoy a close military sales relationship, and have taken steps for the Russians to sell modernized air defense systems to Iran. In February 2001 a spokesman for the Iranian foreign ministry stated that "Iran hopes for ongoing military-technical cooperation with Russia. Our country plans to modernize Iranian Air Defense and it will ask Russia to sell some air defense systems in support of that."

An unknown number of "new" Su-25s were delivered to the Iranian Revolution Guards Corps Air Force (IRGCAF) in 2003. Where these Frogfoots originate from is unclear.

In July 2003 Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAIC) unveiled the new ‘Super-7’ or Chao Qi fighter plane to the public. The new Super-7 is “an all-purpose light fighter, required to have all-weather operation capabilities, be capable of performing the dual tasks of dogfight and air-to-ground attack, and have the ability to launch medium-range missiles. Mass production of the fighter will not begin until two and a half years of research are completed. The plane is being produced to be sold abroad to developing nations. China already has received orders from Iran and some African countries.

There have been reports of some 10 F-8Ms "Finback", 7 Tu-22Ms, 19 MIG-27s, and several MIG-31s (Russia's most modern fighter aircraft, US$40 million ) being present in Iran, but these are not confirmed.

[pie]

51. Are these Russian weapons state-of-the-art?

I would certainly think Russia would
accept Iranian money for Russian weapons.

[lala_rawraw]

85. Russia has no money...

it has weapons, but it would be insane to sell them to Iran because where do you think those very weapons might end up?

Russia, if anything, is perhaps making a treaty/contract to sell Iran parts for nuclear power generators, even so, they would probably do so very carefully as their own Muslim population could use those weapons against them.

This is America/Britain...ta da!

[Frederik]

103. Well, they are doing that

insane or not. They are also selling weapons to Syria (S-300 air defence missiles).

[shadowknows69]

11. Iran would be smart enough to keep them secret n/t

[bpilgrim]

56. apparently today the Muslims are the worlds elite's verboten

:nuke:

peace

[HR_Pufnstuf]

8. yup, time for Plan B

Plan A aint workin so well.

North Korean Kim Possible is one-uppin Iran and making it hard to make a case.

===

I love this part.

"The plans have been discussed with American officials who are said to have indicated provisionally that they would not stand in Israel's way if all international efforts to halt Iranian nuclear projects failed."

No, but we'll sure as hell wink.


gettin ugly

[RoyGBiv]

14. Sharon has a ranch?

Okay, I know this has nothing to do with the subject, but what is it about these people and ranches.

I hereby propose a new World Law. If a person owns a ranch, that person cannot lead a country.

[MisterP]

20. Sharon and the Crown Prince visited Chimpy's pig farm in quick succession

mebbe Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Kuwait will allow flyovers so it looks like the U.S. isn't involved. To the anencephalic, I mean.

[Karenina]

90. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

DU SCHEISSE!!! MY KEYBOARD!!!

[Zorra]

15. Israel may commit a mass suicide, it's own genocide, by doing that.

The sheer numbers of Muslims that could swarm into Israel to destroy it would offset any superior firepower that Israel had.

Of course, the US would then get dragged into it.

But that may be Israel's real goal anyway.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Say what?

Israel may want to involve the US, so in order to do so they are willing to commit mass suicide?! Do you not realize that Jews are in Israel because they wanted to escape genocide? I am sure they are not looking to do it to themselves just to get the US in another war. Our administration is blood-thirsty enough! They don't need any prodding!

[Zorra]

46. Of course I realize why Israel exists.

Does the name "Custer" mean anything to you?

Custer was a US general, and a fool who, in a nujtshell, basically decided on launching an attack on bands of the Lakota tribe while he was surrounded by them.

Big mistake, as Custer had no backup. So his entire regiment was wiped out.

But Israel does have backup, and they "know" it.

So if Israel launches an attack on Iran, and the entire Muslim world, which surrounds Israel, decides to retaliate en masse, Israel may very well be completely destroyed unless the US comes to the aid of Israel. And Israel knows that the US will be "forced" to come to it's aid.

And that's how Israel can use the US to help eliminate it's Muslim enemies.

Unless the US decides not to help, of course.

[jaxx]

61. They'll help

This Israel/U.S. thing is patent now. Israel wanted Saddam out.....shock and awe. Israel wants Iran and Syria put down.....Bushco will be happy to help. Israel is the key to the mid-east mess. Sharon wants it all, and in order to not appear like Mr. Preemptive, Bush will go along. Besides that, there's all that oil waiting to be pumped.

A couple links of interest:
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntm51989.htm

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/575337.html

[lala_rawraw]

84. You know...

Can you please turn on CNN and tell me what news you think is valid or even credible? Do you actually think that America does not pull the strings in Israel? Are you really that confused? Yours links to "info" are really not an honest look at the culture, history, and politics of that region. Just because Ha Aretz has something means little, in much the same way that CNN has the credibility of toilet tissue.

You are in need of a history lesson and until you realize that, I suggest you stop posting on issues that are highly important and require at least some education and/or understanding of foreign affairs, history, religion, etc.

Israel would self-destruct if it attacked Iran.

My god, every person I have either talked to or interviewed has said this is America's gig... so please don't give me links, it is an insult.

[MAlibdem]

71. im sorry, but you're very wrong

it is foolish to assume the entire Muslim world could or would act in unison. do all the christian nations of europe act in concert?

who would attack?

egypt-no
jordan-no
saudi arabia-no
lebanon-no
pakistan-no
yemen-no
turkey-no

maybe syria...which would only lead to israel expanding its holdings in the golan.

most of these countries do not have the military capabilities to exert pressure externally. those that do (egypt, turkey, pakistan) are US allies/israel economic partners/want to join the eu and would not attack israel.

[Zorra]

78. Yes, of course, you are absolutely correct....

um, but didn't most "christian" nations in Europe act in concert in opposing Germany in WW I and WW II?

And despite an overwhelming military disadvantage, the Vietcong managed to defeat the US, the greatest military power on earth.

And the Iraqi Resistance seems to be holding its own very well also, again, against the world's most powerful nation.

Israel is just a little itty-bitty country with potential enemies on all sides. In general, the Islamic world is already not too pleased with Israel-Palestinian situation. A pre-emptive attack or another overt imperialistic maneuver by Israel could light a fuse.

But yes, of course, you are absolutely correct, it was foolish of me to suggest the possibility that Israel could be overrun by sheer numbers of really pissed off Muslims.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

88. Israel Doesn't Need American Intervention to Defend Itself

Israel has nukes and the best armed forces in the Middle East by far. There is absolutely no comparison to Custer.

Out of curiosity, is this viewpoint you're expressing merely wishful thinking on your part?

DTH

[lala_rawraw]

32. Yep... they don't get it...

How many ways can I explain this. The geopolitical situation is an American generated mirage...

Israel, like Iraq, like Iran, is a pawn of the US. Sharon is not playing along...that is why US is supplying Palestine with weapons. Israel will be framed. That is the plan.

The best thing that Arabs and Jews can do is to wake up, get together and understand that they are being played against each other.

[Colorado Blue]

65. AMEN. Thank you.

I don't think people realize, also, that Israel was frequently victimized during the Cold War, by SOVIET backed attempts on its existence. These were probably primarily an attempt to mess up the West, but the Israeli people would have been dead all the same.

The 6-Day War was partially caused by Soviet lies to Nasser, and the Soviets financed and armed many terrorist militias and radical Arab states.

Now, Iran is financing and arming groups like Hezbollah, who are threatening to kill everybody in Israel and destroy the state.

These people are threatened, have been threatened for decades, with nothing short of genocide.

I know YOU know this, but I don't think the average DU'er gets it at all.

There are 6 million human beings living in Israel. Not six million evil demons.

And for sure, Israel AND Jewish people in general are being scapegoated for the war in Iraq.

[Charlie Brown]

17. Yeah, they make a mess and we have to clean it up, yet again

and if Iran, Syria, Lebanon, or whoever counter-attack Israel, Bush will send more cannon-fodder to defend the Holy Land, just like Reagan did in '82. I'm sick of the US being Israel's nursemaid. If they want to start a war, let them fight it themselves.

[Colorado Blue]

67. Holy shit. I can't believe you believe this. PLEASE, take

some time, read these links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_War_of_Independence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

Additional links:

http://countrystudies.us/russia/88.htm
http://countrystudies.us/israel/109.htm
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/MidEast/03/hern ...

http://library.thinkquest.org/20331/history/mideast.htm

These are just the bare bones. They suggest nothing of the human toll, and they do not cover the decades of terror that go back to the '20's.

They say nothing of the "Great Game", which plays on the continent of Asia as though it is a giant chessboard, the people themselves being meaningless.

If you seek a bogeyman, look to Washington, London, Moscow, Paris, Rome and Berlin. These are superpowers, which have victimized billions in their search for wealth and power. They turn little nations against each other, in order to keep control of huge regions of the globe.

Please do not demonize this small nation!

[lala_rawraw]

95. One more time for the history impaired...

Israel wants no war, America does. What part of this do you not understand? Consider the mafia guy who comes around the some neighborhood and goes from business to business offering protection to the owners in exchange for kickbacks. Those owners who don't want protection? Well they get a lesson in why they "need" protection. Is that simple enough?

This is not the same thing as, for example, Orwell's essay on Shooting an Elephant, whereby the occupied cause the aggressor to act against his own ethics. This is not imperialism, this much less exciting than even that, but much more horrific. The Holocaust showed Europe just what American financing could accomplish. Israel is a tiny pebble of a country, created in part by America and supported and protected by America. Not because it is the only democracy in the region, but because they can play the Holocaust card as needed. Israel would be committing state suicide if it attack Iran unprovoked and Europe would act this time by turning their backs. There is a great deal of pressure. Russia and Iraq and China are becoming fast friends. China has the money, power, and ability right now to take down America quickly.

This is a complex situation and to reduce it to Israel wants this or that, is like saying that Americans want torture. Do you want torture? Even that example falls short, because I highly doubt even in the upper annals of government, anyone is seriously considering hitting Iran. It would be suicide.

And the Bush propaganda machine is hard at work making sure that you believe that Israel wants to attack Iran and that Iran has nukes...

Does Iran have nukes? Just curious if you actually believe that lie too.

[OneBlueSky]

21. does this article suggest that Iran may be becoming an Israeli . . .

operation? . . .

Revealed: Israel plans strike on Iranian nuclear plant
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1522978,00.html

think maybe the Bushies are starting to realize that they don't have the manpower to invade Iran, and are turning the fun over to Sharon? . . .

discussion here . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1473439

[lala_rawraw]

96. NO... it sounds like Bush is framing Sharon n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

22. Something I'm wondering

Could this be how Bush will attack Iran? Through Israel? Is that why Bush asked Sharon over that one time?

[lala_rawraw]

30. No, my guess is that Sharon is not playing along...

So Bush is supplying Palestine as a chess move to pressure Sharon. In the end, Blair/Bush will frame Israel, just like they framed "the event" with Syria and Lebanon.

[Colorado Blue]

69. Agreed! They need a front man, they're trying to force

Israel into a very bad, sacrificial move.

It kills me that people have the idea that Israel is running WASHINGTON.

Oh, give me strength.

[lala_rawraw]

81. It is sick...

This regime hates Jews as much as it hates Muslims and as much as they hate African Americans, Native Americans, and so forth.

I think Perle, Wolfie, and other Jews within this administration need to visit the camps again, then come home and read about Grand Pappy. They are working against their own people much the same way that dear Condi is working against her own, and much the same way that the anti-Gay Gay GOP hates their own.

Let's just forget the "in your face" version of who these people "seem to be" and let us assume they are all white males.

I am sick of this "the Jews" are responsible for this or that. No, sorry, Israel is only alive because of America, it is in the end a client-state. I will never forget that rumor Cheney "leaked" about 9/11 and how 4 thousand Jews did not show up for work that day? Give me a fucking break.

[Karenina]

91. Tell 'em the UNVARNISHED TRUTH, girlfriend!

:loveya:

These folks have NO interest in others, save exploitation. "THEIR PEOPLE" are the other psychopaths with whom they interact, fuck the rest o' y'all. WHAT is NOT TO GET??? :shrug:

[eagler]

24. Sure am glad its a secret.

I don't think that the Israelis are in the habit of publishing their secrets.

[jmc777]

89. No, they prefer to steal, and sell, American secrets to other nations. n/t

[knowbody0]

26. now it is not a secret?

[Renew Deal]

28. If I were Iran

I would attack Iraq if that happened. That would cause a massive clusterfuck in Iraq and make a mess out of the region. That would take some pressure off of them, but they would have to fight an undermanned US. They would be giving up much of their infrastructure to do it.

[me b zola]

80. Hmmm. Maybe the WH thought of this possiblility

A month or so ago an article stated that 20,000 troops were preparing to go to Germany for training for deployment to Iraq. The article stated that their training would be complete sometime in mid-June, and I thought then that with the reports of an attack on Iran in mid-June made this all rather sinister.

Does anyone else remember that article?? I will try to find it.

[lala_rawraw]

29. I don't buy this... Israel

Would be knee deep in "loneliness" because what can America do? We have no troops, no money, nada. Europe is becoming increasingly angry. And right around the corner all hell is breaking loose and hatred for Jews in mid-east is at an all time high, the Saudie's are barely keeping a revolution down. Israel, unless one some insane vision of state suicide would be stupid to do this. Plus, America is selling weapons to Palestine???

Think about it, not based on false stories... we have them here too, Judith Miller/NYT "fake war" shit. The logic works against this scenario.

What is more plausible is that the American/British friendship is planning on framing Israel... now that I can believe more than this crap.

Logic, 2+2=4... not 5.

[ReadTomPaine]

33. These plans are hardly secret at this point. It's common knowledge. n/t

[Colorado Blue]

68. Right. So what good, pray tell, are secret plans that

everybody and his mother can read about on DU?

Some surprise attack THAT would be.

Sheese.

[TomClash]

34. After this strike

What happens if Iran transfers chemical (or dirty nuclear) weapons to Hezbollah for use in Northern Israel?

This does not surprise me. It is why Israel recently received GBU-28 capability (bunker busters) from the United States. For example, the gas centrifuge facility at Natanz is comprised of underground buildings.

[Colorado Blue]

77. Don't you think that's a pretty good reason for Israel not to

touch Iran?

You think they haven't figured that out? Hezbollah is already flying drones over Israel and has been shelling it with rockets, the past few days.

If they DO attack Iran, which I sincerely hope they do NOT, it will only be because of US pressure.

The idea that a nation of 6 million is leading a nation of 300 million, which is armed to the teeth, up to its ears in the oil industry and demonstrably violent, is ridiculous.

It is the other way around.

[TomClash]

87. You left a few things out

Like Sharon has been pining to attack Iran for years.

I never said a nation of 6m was leading a nation of 300m. But Israel defeated a nation of 300 million - the Arab nation - four times, twice without a lot of help from the United States.

Do you think there's another reason - other than WMD - for the US pressure on Syria? Think maybe this was requested by Israel for this very reason - Hezbollah?

Israel wants to attack Iran - and not only because of US pressure.

[halobeam]

35. Am I wrong here, but didn't Iran say if they feel there is

an imminent threat of attack of their country, they will strike pre-emptively? If Iran means it, and can actually do it... we might not make it to June. Furthermore, don't they have the boots to stomp all over Iraq? I fear for our troops over there, I really do.

[peacebird]

39. i fear for the innocent people over there, just trying to live

All most folks want is to live in peace, have enough food and a place to call home. Time to spend with friends and loved ones. In short - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

No one in that region of the world can have any hope of that as long as foreign troops occupy their land, especially when the foreign troops are operating under "shoot first, ask questions later" guidelines. Especially when foreign troops can round up citizens at will and "rend" them to other countries to torture them in the vain hope of gaining information.

I fear for the poor folks trying to survive over there.

[megatherium]

40. the key part of the story: IF DIPLOMACY FAILS to halt Iran's nuclear

program. The threat is just a bluff. There will be no attack on Iran. It would be more dangerous than letting the Persians acquire the bomb.

This reminds me of the situation in south Asia in spring of 2003 when both Pakistan and India issued ever more frightening and bellicose warnings, and positioned their militaries on the border. They both tried hard convince the other that they really meant it this time, that they would go to war. But the truth of the matter is that neither side was actually intending on initiating hostilities. Pakistan took the hint and toned down its support of terrorists in Kashmir; India accepted this as sincere. Now the two sides are deep into a peace process. Pax Atomica, perhaps.

[Colorado Blue]

70. True. The EU, everybody is working on this diplomatically

and Sharon himself says diplomacy is the answer.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

44. This would be no 6 day war...

It might, however, be the furtherance of WWIII.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. Agreed. Iran has 2.5 times the square mileage and 3 times the.....

...population of Iraq. Additionally, Iran has not been weakened by a decade or more of sanctions.

But, hey...when has common sense ever stopped Pee-Wee on his Great Adventure?

[dkofos]

47. With bushco desperately trying to get bolton confirmed to the UN

before june you can bet something has been planned.

According to Ritter and Hirsh, Iran is on the list.

Here's to haveing fun til the shit hits the fan

:toast: :toast:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. Israel has contingency plans for use against any and all of her....

...Islamic neighbors. Those plans have been in effect for almost sixty years and are updated annually.

Personally, I think this is a classic redirection play...IMHO, it will be the US military that will be attacking Iran, with or without Israeli participation, sometime after June 1.

[fishnfla]

50. I think a better headline would be: "WWIII Is Near!

Jesus! I mean Yahweh, I mean Allah.

Oh shit

[leesa]

52. So they've been reduced to starting this illegal war via Israel.

Well, it's only fair we knoe WHO we're fighting for, I guess. This will really rally the Fundie crowd...part of their Endtimes Fantasy

[Greylyn58]

54. If Israel does strike Iran

than it will be because the pResident and his cronies have set it up to happen this way. They will most certainly make it sound as if Israel had no choice.

When Iran retaliates in kind (as they must for an attack on their country) then we will jump in because one of our allies has been attacked. Again because it has be orchestrated to happen.

We have all been hearing rumors of June and it seems more and more likely it will happen. We don't have the man power to extend to another war so I feel sure that a draft will be happening soon. Oh they will dress it up in some sort of patriotic name, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's still a duck. and it will still be a draft to take this countries young into another illegal, manufactured war.

I want to believe that Congress won't buy into another lie and authorize an attack posture against Iran, but as we all know, the pResident and his cronies are very good at lying their asses off to get what they want. My only hope is that Congress will see through the lies and not allow this jackass to continue his mad rampage through the Middle East.

[Auntie Bush]

55. So this is why it is so important to get Bolton the Ambassadorship

to the UN. To make sure he can screw up the negations and have the war and OIL Bush wants. Why else would Bush want someone who doesn't know how to negotiate without alienating everyone? He's the perfect sized shoe.

[woosh]

57. WW III

[Rex]

64. See it is perfectly okay for Isreal to have nukes

we made a buck off that sale! Not so for Iran, all the materials they will get will not benefit us (no profit) because more than likely China or Russia will supply the materials. Can't have that! On to WW3 post haste!

[Lori Price CLG]

74. It's dated March 13, 2005 ... not LBN? n/t

[Colorado Blue]

79. Thanks, I thought it sounded familiar. AAARRGGHHHHHH.

Definitely NOT LBN.

[hector459]

92. So, it is ok for Iran to engage in a "pre-emptive" strike against Israel

if they can? Would the world stand by and let this happen and would some take sides as in the case of our invading Iraq?

[Bluebear]

93. good point. nt

[Terran1212]

94. The only country to challenge US-israeli plan for middle east

Will itself be attacked.

So then the US can move into Iran and Syria and make them as subservient as afghanistan, iraq, and saudi arabia.

Why does no one resist this?

[entanglement]

97. This only makes things worse

When will these idiots understand that the unending belligerence of Sharon and Bush only makes the Iranians more nervous and MORE likely to weaponize? But for our unconditional support, would Israel have made such threats?

[spanone]

100. As Gomer would say, 'Surpirse, Surprise'.

[Theres-a]

101. damn,damn,damn.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

102. What's Rupert Murdoch up to now?

Doesn't he own the Times? He's also been known to interfere with his editorial board.