Update on the Andy Stephenson Situation (12:30PM Wednesday, May 11)

[Skinner]

Thank you, everyone, for your understanding as we sort through this. Thank you especially to Andy, who has been extremely helpful. At Andy's behest, I have been in contact with the Johns Hopkins Medicine office of corporate communications.

Here is the bottom line: Federal law forbids Johns Hopkins Medicine from commenting at this time. If and when Andy becomes an inpatient, and if he signs a waiver, they will be able to acknowledge that he is an inpatient at Johns Hopkins.

So, it looks like this is going to work out. There are not going to be any more updates from me until Andy becomes an inpatient at Johns Hopkins. At that point, if Andy signs the waiver, I will call Johns Hopkins back and they will be able to to verify to me that he is an inpatient. I promise I will call Johns Hopkins as soon as it comes to my attention that Andy has been admitted, and I will start a new thread as soon as I have that information.

On a related note, the people at Johns Hopkins are concerned that people are getting incorrect information about their willingness or ability to provide care to certain patients. They emailed me this formal comment to set the record straight.

Johns Hopkins has a responsibility to provide the best possible care and resources to its patients. In order to do this, Hopkins must manage its expenses and costs carefully. We provide millions of dollars a year in uncompensated care and as a good citizen of Maryland, give preference to Maryland citizens for such assistance. The public, our donors and regulators expect us to be careful conservators of our resources and if we fail to recoup our costs and charge appropriately, we would be unable to meet our responsibilities to the community and our patients.

We recognize that many patients from out of state want to come here for care and we make every effort to assist many patients and their families in making arrangements for payment of medical expenses. In some cases we offers assistance through our social services programs and philanthropy. In some cases, unfortunately, this is not possible.

Because of issues related to patient privacy and confidentiality, we cannot comment on specific patients or their cases.

[goodboy]

1. KICK FOR ANDY! (NT)

[wildflower]

2. kick n/t

[auntAgonist]

3. thank You Skinner

Best wishes still wing their way to Andy !

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Yeomanlike and responsible work...

On the part of all out in front of this thing. Kudos.

[katinmn]

5. Thanks. Johns Hopkins statement - noted.

[crispini]

6. Thanks for the good work, Skinner.

:thumbsup:

[Auntie Bush]

7. Thanks for for the update Skinner. I've been waiting!

[Marnieworld]

8. Thank you Skinner

Once again a very reasonable approach.

[fooj]

9. If I wasn't so stunned by this, I'd have a reply...

I have no words...

[question everything]

29. Obviously

[meganmonkey]

10. Thanks for the update

:thumbsup:

[s-cubed]

11. Skinner - has his surgern been rescheduled, and, if so, when?

Thanks for how you are handling this.

[Skinner]

14. I am unable to answer that question.

Only Andy or someone else who knows can answer.

[EFerrari]

33. I was told yesterday that there are tests on late this week and the

surgery will be rescheduled asap.

[Cleita]

12. Incredible!

We recognize that many patients from out of state want to come here for care and we make every effort to assist many patients and their families in making arrangements for payment of medical expenses. In some cases we offers assistance through our social services programs and philanthropy. In some cases, unfortunately, this is not possible.

Who gets the job of deciding who will live or die?

[mikita]

15. financial offices surely...

and sadly.... :(

[Cleita]

22. Bean counters busy at work again where they have no business.

eom

[WilliamPitt]

17. To be fair

I'd bet a lot of money that if it were up to the doctors and nurses at Hopkins, everyone would get treated for whatever they want. Hospitals did not make medicine a for-profit industry. The politicians and the insurance company lobbyists did. Hopkins is trapped in the system like the rest of us.

In other words, I wouldn't want to choose who lives or died. I would bet Hopkins doesn't want to, either.

[enigmatic]

18. Nobody w/ a conscience does

And I'm certain that the Doctors at Johns Hopkins would agree with that.

[Cleita]

20. So by your reasoning we should be blaming it on the

for profit health care industry. I can get on board with that. Time to start slaying dragons, named Tenet, Blue Cross, Pacific Health Care, et al.

[Daphne08]

82. My first cousin is a surgeon and I have to agree with Will!

The majority of doctors and nurses are dedicated to helping their patients, and most of them value those patients over profit. They also work extremely hard for the money they make.

It is the minority of physicians and surgeons who give the entire profession a bad name.

[Cleita]

133. Yes, I agree with you. Most of them do.

Six years experience with my husband's doctors and the other health care professionals who helped keep him alive this long showed me that. Also, I was told that his primary care physician never turned a patient away, even if they didn't have insurance or the other resources like Medicare and Medicaid.

However, the physicians shouldn't have to be bearing this burden. They deserve compensation too.

[Raksha]

165. And that's exactly what we've been doing, and will continue to do.

>>So by your reasoning we should be blaming it on the for profit health care industry.<<

[donco6]

199. As with anything . . .

. . . once you lose personal contact with your customers, profit becomes the all-consuming god. I see it over and over again. Schools, city governments, whatever. Once you get too big to know the constituents, you lose the whole point of what you're about.

[Bridget Burke]

54. Most MD's hate the increasing power of the bean counters.

Especially in research-oriented teaching hospitals--where the most advanced care is available. Doctors on the faculty are paid well but could earn more in private practice.

There are now large departments composed of administrative & clerical personnel--formed to browbeat insurance companies and/or HMO's into coughing up money for treatment. Of course, if the insurance companies delay long enough, they get lucky--patients die or their condition deteriorates so much that they cannot survive aggressive regimens.

Funds are available for treating indigent patients--or those whose insurance has run out. But these funds are not unlimited & residents of the home state are favored.

The whole system needs to change.

[Cleita]

62. To get a single payer system implemented, the doctors

and health care professionals are going to have to demand this, not just the patients.

[Bridget Burke]

68. It would help to have some politicians demanding it, too.

Most of the good doctors are too busy for much politicking. They are NOT the ones bussed in to cheer Shrub's speeches about "tort reform."

[Cleita]

71. They are going to have to make the time as the rest of

us have to. Collectively we all need to demand this of our politicians. They are the ones who are going to have to present this up on Capitol Hill. Look at what the nurses are doing in California to Arnold. Slam dunk almost!

[hiley]

76. bravo WilliamPitt ...

someone just gets stuck with the crappy job.

Solidarity!

[tavalon]

211. Razor sharp, Mr. Pitt

The politicians, the hospital administrators (CEOs) and the insurance companies are the ones who have made our system the disaster it is. We Doctors and Nurses are caught in an obscene system in which we have minimal ability to affect positive change.

There are many times when I think it's time for me to get a job as a barista.

[Maestro]

235. Absolutely correct

I had major surgery last year and the hospital treated me wonderfully. The damn insurance company stuck with 30% of all charges which the hospital has to charge at beyond premium rates to pay for overly expensive drugs, medical equipment etc... The doctors complained the whole time about the insurance companies. They are asshats. All of the companies.

[Garth Beaumont]

253. It is truly amazing

money will by you justice and life!

[Goldmund]

21. Wo gets the job of editing statements for grammar???

[Skinner]

23. Please, let's not go there.

The people in the JH communications office are doing their best to be helpful.

[Goldmund]

28. Fair enough.

I didn't really mean anything by it. It just caught my eye that they had a typo in an official statement.

[donco6]

196. So, I don't get it.

Are you saying anyone wanting to get into Johns Hopkins should? How would that work? I mean, physically and financially they can't take everyone, right? At some point, someone has to decide who gets in and who doesn't. It sucks, but what can they do? I don't think you're being entirely fair.

[wicket]

13. Thanks for the update skinner!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Fleshdancer]

16. I have a recommendation...

Would it be possible for DU to send some sort of thank you letter/card to Andy's doctors and nurses when this is all done with?

When my father was going through multiple surgeries for his cancer, he was in the hands of so many wonderful, skilled people. I know Andy will too and because of that, the DU community is thankful.

[GardeningGal]

24. I did that once for one of my mother's doctors

I sent them a thank you note for their concern and telling them how much I appreciated the nursing staff as well. I never mentioned it to my mom, but after her checkup following surgery she asked me what I sent. Apparently the doctor mentioned to my mom that they really liked getting the note.

I like the idea if we can get the information, even if we do it as individuals. It's always nice to stop and smell the roses once in awhile.

[Fleshdancer]

37. If anything, we should be able to send them to Andy who can pass them

along to the doctors and nurses. I just really like the idea of writing one big Thank-you on behalf of a community with almost 70,000 members. Personal thank-you cards would be good too though.

[Ladyhawk]

267. I think we should do this not only for the docs and nurses,

but for the admins that experienced problems due to the volume of calls. We could apologize for any inconvenience. I'm sure we could drum up some money for a few cards and some flowers.

[johnaries]

34. Great idea! Who was in charge of flowers for the Boxer Rebellion?

Maybe they would be willing to take this up. Or the girls in the KOEB are well organized (although they'd probably send them all ties :evilgrin: )

[Moosepoop]

46. Marvelous idea!!!!

I wonder if a "Thank You Andy's Doctors and Nurses" thread could be started by someone, followed by DUer's each signing it as a post. Then someone could print out the finished thread and send it with an actual card?

Would appreciate feedback on whether this is a good idea, allowable, and/or feasible. If so, I volunteer to post the thread and/or print and send it. :thumbsup:

[hiley]

78. Moosepoop, great idea !

Solidariy

[Spazito]

83. I think it is an excellent idea

It would give us an opportunity to let them know how special Andy is to us and how appreciative we are for their care of him!

[Horse with no Name]

58. If you reallly want to get in the nurses' good graces

Have food sent.;)
Works every time,lol.

[Moosepoop]

60. That's a good idea too!

But someone else will need to do the cooking. Ask anyone I've ever cooked for. :scared:

[Horse with no Name]

66. Even delivery pizza

Anyone can do that from anywhere.
Trust me...you feed the nurses, they are your friends. Especially the night nurses,lol.

[hiley]

81. Horse with no Name

you are right about that !
solidarity

[liberalnurse]

357. Yes, food is very, very good!

:woohoo: :popcorn: :applause:

[Fleshdancer]

63. that makes sense

we should do that. Goddess knows they're overworked these days, might as well feed them good food. So will this make them treat Andy with extra extra extra good care?

I gave gifts to my Dad's nurses. Not so much because they were doing a good job (which they were) but because my Dad would make harassing comments toward them when he was on morphine. He really liked to compliment them on their asses. They smiled and laughed but Mom and I were mortified...my Dad wasn't like that normally. The memory is hilarious to me now though.

[BR_Parkway]

343. Funny, that's how my partner initially came out to his parents, he'd

had surgery and was still pretty doped up, kept telling the intern how cute he was, what a great butt, etc...

His folks were a little surprised, my SO didn't really remember it until the following week when he had a follow-up with the intern - who told him about it and said his parents were pretty surprised, maybe he should have a talk with them.

[enigmatic]

19. Thanks Skinner

You did good:)

[xxqqqzme]

25. so there! lurking trolls

STFU! and stay away from our community.

All healing thoughts 2 Andy.

[StaggerLee]

26. Thank you to Skinner and all of my fellow DUers

Thanks for holding it together through all of this turbulence. I love you guyses.

Through the thick AND thin!

:hi: :loveya:

[question everything]

27. Thank you, again, Skinner

I've just read an attack on me on the long, now locked thread from yesterday, so I want to, again, express my support in your actions.

The issue that I raised, and was completely misread by that attacker - at 2:00 am, no surprise there - was that this is YOUR website and it is up to you to react in the way that you find best, to protect you and the site.

That thread was not about Andy. I many not have donated if he posted the plea himself, but I trusted the many DUers - Will Pitt, sfexpat2000, flyarm and others - and I tried to help.

So, again, if the actions that you took yesterday offended some people - too bad. Your responsibility is first to DU. And thank you for letting us taking over the GD forum during the past two weekends to spread the stories about Andy and to raise funds. Many of us relied on some of the posts and the links - like the one to Will Pitt's blog - to send private emails to Friends who are not DU members.

[amazona]

30. concerns

It seems to me fairly obvious that checking in at Johns Hopkins at some unknown date in the future is not the first time that a patient would have documents about a cancer diagnosis.

Why can't he send support documents from other doctors who have seen him in the process of being diagnosed? It might not confirm the costs of the current surgery but it would provide more corroboration than, well, than nothing. I get mounds of receipts and paperwork for comparatively trivial work -- even dental and veterinary work much less major medical work. There is no privacy law involved when the patient himself is sending you a copy of what he already possesses and should have possessed for some days or even weeks.

Forgive me for not understanding, "So, it looks like this is going to work out." It doesn't actually look that way from a distance. It looks as if you have been put on hold -- as have the rest of us.

I am very hesitant to be so negative but I am completely unclear about how the objective observer would find this an acceptable answer. I so very much hope that I am wrong about my growing doubts. I hope you can set me straight without too much beating about my head and shoulders, thanks. I don't want to cause distress. My goal is to prevent more distress.

OK, my worries have been expressed, and I think I will say no more on this topic. At this time, it seems to me that I still know absolutely nothing.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[johnaries]

36. there have been multiple threads re: Andy's condition, even before

it was diagnosed as cancer. You can do a search and make up your mind. I know a lot of them were in the 2004 Election Forum.

[Skinner]

39. Please don't do this.

Johns Hopkins is doing what the law permits them to do. They will give me the verification that Andy is an inpatient when he becomes an inpatient. That is all that we need. As long as that verification comes, then it should not matter to anyone if it happens today or in a few days.

On Edit: Andy offered to send me documentation from other doctors, and I did not feel that it was necessary, nor did I think it would adequately address the issue before us.

[Kelvin Mace]

270. I HAVE seen the documentation

So has Will Pitt. We posted them over a month ago but the post was deleted (not a criticism, just a statement of fact and I understand why).

[meganmonkey]

40. Maybe it would have been a good idea to trust your hesitancy

and not speak up.

But hey, as long as YOU feel better.

:eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

41. OK

1. Andy has offered to post a variety of diagnosis-oriented documents, as well as cancelled checks to his doctors. In fact, he did so once but the post was removed because the documents contain a variety of personal info that neither you nor I would want on a public board. Notably, he posted these the last time some asshat came in here and called him a fraud. Likely it was the same person with the same rotten agenda.

2. HIIPA is a big-gun law. Doctors can't just skip it and say what they like, nor can hospitals, about a particular patient. They lose their licenses immediately if they do, and get their asses sued off. Period.

3. As many as 50 people here, myself included, have personally vouched for the fact that all of this is on the level.

4. If there was something wrong, Skinner would make that clear.

So, and I offer this with as little harshness as I can, perhaps it is time for you to worry about something else.

[LTRS]

335. In the interest of not spreading misinformation

Doctors, hospitals, etc don't lose their licenses for violating HIPAA laws. They can be fined up to $25K for each violation though. I kind of doubt Andy would sue, since he seems to want folks to know what is going on -- not that the doctor's know that.

HIPAA is one of the least understood laws in the medical arena. It's not got nearly as much teeth as people believe. The Bushies fixed it so that just about anyone BUT a loved one or friend can get all the info they want without the consent of the patient.

As for the rest, I have no opinion, except that it's nice to see a group of people pull together for someone.

[FlaGranny]

45. If you are so hesitant to be negative

it makes one wonder why you have placed almost identical posts multiple times in every thread about this. I'm sure we all appreciate that you will say no more on the topic. I'm sure we all got your point - many times.

It's good to be suspicious. It's good for you to voice your suspicions, but there comes a point when being overly suspicious to the point of obsession can become destructive to yourself and to others.

And really, I don't disagree with anything you said, and I don't think most people have disagreed that much with you, either. We get it. We should be careful we're not getting scammed.

I haven't read anything not on the latest breaking page for a long time, so I didn't know about all this until last night, and I haven't donated any money. Now I want to donate and I wonder if I still can.

[GardeningGal]

99. I don't think it's too late, he will continue to have things come up

I know I plan on sending something when I get my pay check next week. If you have a PayPal account, you can send to [email protected] (there's an underscore between his first and last name.. Andy_Stephenson) or you can send a check or money order to:

Andy Stephenson
P.O. Box 25624
Seattle, WA 98165-1124

There's also a way via Amazon, but I don't have the link and it's in one of the monster threads we had last weekend.

[Nothing Without Hope]

332. Info for payment options - I copied this from merh's sig line a couple

of days ago and am saving it for the next time donations are taken - and I'm sure he'll be needing more.

Send check or money order to Andy Stephenson PO Box 25624 Seattle WA 98165-1124 or via paypal [email protected] or Amazon @ http://tinyurl.com/bnu79 (pmail sfexpat2000 w/amount). Thank you! ~~~~~~ Read Thom Hartman's article about this American patriot and tireless advocate for election reform... and DONATE NOW here: http://www.opednews.com/hartmann_050105_save_andy.htm

[RetroLounge]

52. "I am very hesitant to be so negative "

but not quite hesitant enough not to post...

:eyes:

RL

[Moosepoop]

57. "At this time, it seems to me that I still know absolutely nothing."

The first thing you've said that I agree with.

[Bridget Burke]

61. Even a blind pig....

Finds the occasional acorn.

[Lisa0825]

67. amazona, you've become a broken record.

Please, just don't donate. Let the rest of us do with our $$ what we want. Don't keep trying to save us from ourselves. Enough is enough.

[spotbird]

220. Go away.

You aren't helpful, but that's the point isn't it?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

64. Wow. Just Wow.

:eyes:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

79. Then don't contribute. I think it's perfectly reasonable that Skinner not

post Andy's medical file on the internet to satisfy the rubbernecking at the expense of Andy being harrassed even more.

Here's my advice to people. Give freely or not, but please don't expect someone to post their medical file on the internet so that you can be assured your money was well spent...that is an unreasonable expectation.

[geniph]

104. Very well put, Teena

[KoKo]

91. HIPPA Act puts extreme restrictions on Hospitals giving out info...Even

family members are often restricted because usually only the patient's "guardian" is allowed to put the names of people allowed to call or inquire about their family member's care. It often causes conflict in divorce situations or where some members of a family don't get along with the "guardian" so they aren't listed even though the patient may want them to have info.

The flub ups with Johns Hopkins with payments and surgery schedule are more the norm today than not.(Sadly) And, HIPPA is so confusing many hospital employees don't always get it straight and deny people who are on the Patient's list to call in because the personnel at the nurses station maybe mispelled the name or couldn't read the name correctly.

I went through something similar to this with my Dad last year between a hospital he was in when he broke his hip and then the Rehab Hospital he was transferred to for "after care." It was a nightmare what when on and this was in a large "Teaching Hospital" that has a great reputation.

So...it happens that surgeries can be rescheduled if your "paperwork/funding" isn't in order and sometimes because the surgeon "overbooked," or the anesthesiologist came to work late that morning. Lots of things can look very suspicious but since Andy was scheduled for a procedure that isn't routine and has no health insurance to speed him through, it becomes very complicated...and these big instituions can't deal with "complicated" these days.


Skinner has handled this very appropriately, I think. Bent over backward to be fair. And, those who know Andy have vouched for him.
:shrug:

[Individualist]

120. !

:spank:

Expletives deleted.

[Snivi Yllom]

138. true, but let Andy post his own medical records for review

He could shut these rumors down quickly if he posted key medical reports on his condition online.

[meganmonkey]

147. He has already done so - when questions arose early

in the fundraising effort. DU Admin deleted those posts, not thinking it appropriate to display his medical records for all to see (from my understanding of the situation).

[Pathwalker]

151. You first! And please include nude photos of yourself,

otherwise, how will we know it's really you?

[Snivi Yllom]

192. Nude photos coming on one condition.

They will cost you a hell of a lot more than $50,000. My bra and panties are worth at least $50K each.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

307. $100,000 underwear and a ten-cent head.

[Snivi Yllom]

318. that will cost you $200,000

[Pathwalker]

347. Skanky seconds belong in the trash!

People might pick through Britney's trash, but I doubt there's any interest in yours. If I want dirty underwear, i'll go to a thrift store.
Your original "suggestion" was vetoed REPEATEDLY by Skinner waaaaay before you "suggested" it, which you would know IF you bothered to read much. And this isn't a sex thread - this thread is about ANDY - not you,
or your perversions.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

182. Oh GOD and if he showed us his ass we'd have even MORE proof

Look..I am not suggesting people take EVERYTHING on faith, but to make a man with cancer post his medical records or to even suggest it is OUTRAGEOUS!

I am really upset at DU'ers who would dare suggest this. If YOU wanted this info, did YOU PM Andy for it?

[Snivi Yllom]

195. Why is it outrageous?

He asking for a lot of money based on good faith. Some have asked for a little bit more transparency. That's all.

Personally I don't need it. Some may. I don't see why a medical report w/ the obvious personal identification information removed was pulled from the site in the first place if it was posted.(SS#s, addresses, phone #s)

It's just a suggestion. Try not to read too much in a suggestion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

198. If one is that skeptical, then they shouldn't give

If one is that skeptical then they would claim the forms are false and accuse Andy of doing a "Dan Rather."

I think the fact that this person knows MANY Du'ers is a bit of testament to hos credibility. THe more people involved, the less likely of any conspiracy to defraud.

[Snivi Yllom]

305. I think this will all turn out be a bunch of BS sliming

but you have to admit,

most date rapes are committed by people we think we know well.

'Knowing' someone is not always a guarantee.

[Catherine Vincent]

314. Just so you'll know, Andy did ask for the money.

Close friends offered to start donation drive for him.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

190. the depth of human selfishness and ignorance

never ceases to amaze me.

[bettyellen]

223. why don't you read the thread before posting?

BTW, so sorry to hear about your husband and his sock "issues" . LOL.

[bettyellen]

221. you have not been hesitant to repeatedly, endlessly express your concerns

and i hope you make good on your promise to STFU about it, and not repost this in evry single thread you find.
consider us suffiently and repeatedly warned, and the trolls well fed and coddled by your
misguided and most unwelcome attempt at saving us from our own generosity.

[LandOLincoln]

341. I know very little about Andy Stephenson, didn't follow the BBV thing

that closely, and still don't know what happened with Bev Harris, because I tend to follow only a couple of DU forums.

That said, I've read part of this thread, and part of the thread from yesterday, and I have to say that your posts remind me of someone who picks obsessively at a scab.

I wonder why you think this is productive?

(edit for clarity)

[johnaries]

31. Thank you, Skinner! You've handled this EXTREMELY well.

Things like this make me glad I don't have your job!

[Walt Starr]

32. It's obvious to me that Andy has been above board on this

and JH would disclose to assuade the crap a spewing troll put out there, but they are bound by federal law.

It's sad what a singel troll with less than 100 posts can do to DU.

[meti57b]

35. agree and add: too bad people can't recognize a troll when they see one!

.... especially people with so much internet experience should be able to recognize a troll when they see one. Good grief, people, what does it take!

[reality based]

38. I thought the money was there in a Johns Hopkins mailroom

At least a check for funds that some benefactor had advanced until the Paypal funds were released. The complaints about JH that I read yesterday were about the bureaucratic left and right hands there not knowing the money was already there and/or what it was for. Andy's surgery was postponed as a result. I think it's good that JH now knows that there are substantial numbers of people out here following this matter with great interest.

[s-cubed]

177. Just to be sure people understand:

Most of the needed money was in certified checks which were in the JH mailroom. The admin people didn't know they were there. Andy had a check to cover the balance of what was due, as a loan against the locked PayPal account. Apparently that check wasn't enough without the checks hiding in the mailroom.

:loveya: to Andy

[reality based]

200. Thank you for that clarification

And thanks to all of you who have assumed some responsibility in this good work.

[EFerrari]

42. This is simply a misuse of this statement. If Andy requests that

the information be released in order to raise funds for his care, it is their responsibility to do that. Otherwise, they are obstructing his care.

I think the problem here is they know that they goofed and are being ultra careful now. It's probably a better idea to let Andy check in and then simply call? It sounds as if that will happen soon.

On edit: sorry to sound cranky. I'm sure the admins at JH are doing their best to move through this situation just as we are. B.

[Skinner]

43. That's what we're doing.

When Andy checks in, I'll call.

[EFerrari]

44. Super. nt

[Catherine Vincent]

47. You're the one that's super!

:hi:

[understandinglife]

50. That is so very true! (nt)

Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[EFerrari]

56. 'Morning from the West Coast, cat_girl

:hi:

[fooj]

93. Excellent way to model behavior that underscores the importance of trust

peace.

[RussBLib]

48. OK, who is Andy Stephenson? -- n/t

reer

[Daphne08]

87. He's a man who has been fighting tirelessly for the right of

your vote to be counted fairly.

[enigmatic]

90. yep

And we need many, many more like him.

[understandinglife]

49. Relevant update from Andy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3636475&mesg_id=3636475

Thank you Skinner for what you have done.

[Maat]

86. Thanks for letting me know where the thread is.

[rndmprsn]

51. i live in downtown baltimore MD...

just some blocks from hopkins and i have friends that work there too, anyhow...if i can help somehow becuase of my proximity just let me know, i'd be happy to.

peace

[Pathwalker]

53. THANK YOU, SKINNER! Andy, you're still on my prayer list

and will stay there until YOU give me the "All Clear".

THIS is why I believe in Socialized Medicine.

[undeterred]

55. thanks for the update

I have no doubt the JH is doing the best they can for Andy and lots of other patients.

It isn't the fault of the health care providers that there are so many patients who need care but can't afford it- its the fault of costs that have gotten completely out of control over the last 25 years and the complete failure of our government to respond to it.

Most teaching hospitals have an ethics committee which helps in making policy decisions, including the decisions which affect who is allowed to get uncompensated care and who is not. Yes, health care is rationed and sometimes it is denied.

JH is the best hospital in the world to be treated for pancreatic cancer. And people who can raise $50K for a friend who needs it are the best friends in the world.

[Horse with no Name]

59. It feels good to me as a healthcare professional

To see the correct procedures being followed from JH on this issue.
Justification that those stupid inservices that I had to attend regarding HIPAA, that at least I wasn't the only one having to do it. :)
This is such a non-issue. If it were a fraud, as I stated before, the proof would have already been provided. Since it hasn't been, it should be peace of mind for anyone that needed it, that the proof was always impossible to obtain. If it had been provided, that would have been your smoking gun.
Thanks Skinner for your diligence in following this up.
~~~sending prayers and well wishes for Andy~~~~

[elehhhhna]

69. Wasn't this OBVIOUSLY LEGIT all along/? Think about it. . . Baltimore?!!

Not to frag Baltimore but if you're gonna scam someone and have to go to the named location (and Andy's been sighted in Baltimore, people)is Baltimore the place YOU'D pick? HELL NO!

I'd find a nice European specialist and head there, personally.

[EFerrari]

197. LOL! Thanks for the belly laugh.

I just can't imagine how someone could pull this off. I mean, maybe somebody could but I couldn't. Geezus, my life as an activist would end INSTANTLY if I ever pulled a much more low key stunt, like chewing gum in school. Doug and I are public figures in San Francisco. Our success as advocates depends upon our rep. End of story.

Plus, the number of people I would have to game is just plain old ridiculous. I don't even like to play poker. lol

But, I do understand this, that we've been gamed bigtime for so long by this corrupt government, that we react -- if we're still thinking. The key is to notice the difference between a reaction and a moment of rational thought.

Personally, if I were to construct a scam, it would involve Tuscany.

:)

[elehhhhna]

346. I'm thinking Amsterdam...

thrills me that you got a laugh--I know you could use one!

[Malva Zebrina]

65. Why are people picking on someone just because they express an

opinion that is not in the mainstream here?

You know, this has become, at times,viscious mud slinging that is patently unfair and on the verge of being cruel. Someone expresses a viewpoint that is NOT like yours, and they get trashed simply for expressing that opinion.

Next step:

Skinner will verify that Andy is indeed a patient going in for the Whipple procedure. Right Skinner? Need we verify that the cost of the operation and the projected five day stay, as someone here has said, is indeed, $50,000? I would think it prudent to do that also.

And then all will be resolved.

and then maybe some plans should be made to avoid this kind of mess,such as name calling, accusations, knee jerk reactions to someone asking reasonable questions and a general circling of the wagons against anyone expressing thoughts not acceptable to those in the wagon train, can be avoided all for the benefit of the person to whom the fund raiser is directed who needs all of that like a hole in the head.

[Lisa0825]

70. Two reasons, IMO...

1) Because many people here consider andy a close friend, and many others just have a lot of respect for his work, so we collectively feel protective of him, and that makes us want to defend him against accusations.

2) Because a few people have repeated the same lines over and over again. The questions have been asked and re-asked. The documentation is NOT available yet. When Andy becomes an in-patient, I am sure the proof will be provided. But until then, repeating those same concerns over and over does nothing but exasperate Andy's supporters. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Personally, I don't care to get verification of how much it will cost. Andy has more than earned the money already, as far as I'm concerned.

[Goldmund]

74. and 3) Because DU is not unlike any large crowd of people.

And people tend to band together and gang up on each other and try to extinguish perceived threats to homogeny. Liberals aren't above that.

Mind you, I'm in the "camp" of those who believe Andy, and I also think that I'd rather be scammed for 10 or 20 bucks than miss the chance to help save the life of someone whose work I respect; and that as far as I'm personally concerned, I don't really care much even if it _was_ a scam. Which I'm convinced it wasn't.

That said, the gang-up mentality on anyone who challenges the orthodoxy du jour fucking sucks.

[DS1]

89. Agreed completely.

On all counts.

[Malva Zebrina]

80. I know Lisa

and I appreciate the staunch loyalty to a beloved friend, however, in the zeal of all of Andy's friends, they seem to have developed defensiveness that, if calmer emotions were employed, would understand that not everybody knows Andy, ever met him, and some probably never heard of him before.

Not every person on DU, goes to DU meetups. Not every person is intimately involved at all, yet I am willing to bet, given the numbers who are intimately involved,going by the poster numbers that those persons also contributed to Andy's cause. If 50,000 dollars was accumulated due to donations, well, that means that more than a hundred had to contribute.

Further, the contributions could be separate from the questions of persons. People may have contributed, may be concerned,may be kind, but feel the need for an accuracy that was not presented well at all, in the zeal to help a friend. That is not so much a criticism as it is a lesson that in the future, organization as to fact, may prevent much of the conflict that we have seen.

I don't find it offensive that people want to know and neither should anyone.

as for the money--yes--if DU wants to maintain it's integrity, Skinner should address that if only for legal purposes.After all, he did give special permission for this drive to be launched on DU wheras generally, requests for funds on any thread are not permitted.

All should be scrupulously recorded and although I realize that you think you know for certain it is all on the up and up re the costs,or you do not care about the costs, your enthusiasm for a beloved friend is not the same as the raw data. Skinner also mentioned that he would verify the approximate costs, so this is not my big idea.

That's all. I still maintain the attacks on others during this whole thing, borders on the cruel. No one benefits from that, most especially Andy.

[salin]

96. unless of course... the coordinated (initial) claims of fraud

were intended to prevent the surgery from taking place. The first troll - called for an investigation to paypal - were they just trying to freeze their $10 dollar donation? Or was the donation made solely for the purpose of challenging it, and perhaps trying to get the whole account frozen "pending investigation"... in order to delay (or prevent) the surgery. I don't know - but the original stirrer of this skepticism may have had less "skeptical" intent, and may have actually had fairly malign intent.

[Malva Zebrina]

107. that troll has been here six times under six different names, I understand

I also understand that a benefactor issued a check for the money as a "loan" to be paid back as soon as PayPal released the money, so that there would be no barriers to Andy's admission to JH. Am I right about that? There should have been no anxiety over that release of money as there is no fraud.

Whatever the troll's sick malicious intent, the surgery will go on and apparently the money is there.

Some of us had a bad experience with other causes involving money that were promoted here. Some may not care about that lost money, but others may have become a little more skeptical as it may have taken a significant chunk out of their budget, and, as I see re this case, those who questioned then, were also viciously attacked when they asked reasonable questions. That was also done by friends "protecting" friends .

It is disturbing to observe that once the wagons are circled, thoughtlessness seems to occur and prevails in the heat of the moment.

[salin]

113. I remember the main case to which you refer

and think that the group message of money donor be-ware has been heard loud and clear since last November.

Given how this story had unfolded - over time and consistently, I think there was enough - and enough folks involved, for folks to decide whether or not to give. I understand reasonable skepticism. I also recognize why many would chose not to give due to said skepticism. Hell - were points of fraud not made in such a disgraceful way - I might even understand a bit of skepticism here and there.

But the way it played out seemed malicious. Very malicious. Bigger than just get folks whipped up into sides as the intent malicious. I really believe that the troll had the intent of screwing up the ability of Andy to get the surgery - by attempting to tie up the donations.

Long ago I learned of a case at DU which turned my stomach. I know it is true. One person who disliked another did a little sleuthing - for identity - and then made calls to the other person's place of employment. That seemed so far over the line - over an internet grudge - taking an action that could have REAl ramifications in another person's life and ability to pursue their livelihood. While that happened quite a long time ago, it has stayed with me as a cautionary tale of how far people will go through the net to score in a vendetta. The troll's actions - esp the efforts via PayPal put my senses on edge. Far beyond trying to stir up arguments... reeked of the first scenario to which I refer... where one with a perceived axe to grind - takes an action with an intention of f*cking up another person's life.

It was that bit with paypal that got my nerves a tingling and on edge. A ten dollar donation being challenged... most folks for that amount would write it up as a loss... and if the ten has big impact on the budget... would write it up as a painful loss. But the coordination of timing - trying to get others to en masse challenge (with intent to reclaim)... making a paypal charge - again I would guess not to just freeze a mere $10... but to either try to get a "run on the account" of freezes, OR to try to create enough buzz enough places (Kos as well as DU, that I know of) to try to get paypal to act more broadly on the account. I could be wrong... but this reeks. If it were just the skepticism - I could understand it. But this just doesn't "feel" right.

Thus those making unreasonable demands - such as we as a whole community should have access to all details of Andy's health and illness... yikes. Folks need to be skeptical BEFORE they give. And chose to give or not to give. And I would guess due to the incident last november - many were.

Just saying that the motives of the original troll should be considered by those who continue to push that troll's agenda either lightly or firmly. Skepticism should be poured on that side as well as on the donee side.

[Malva Zebrina]

146. Your reply is a delight to read

thank you for presenting your reasons and your personal analysis in such an intelligent and respectful way. I read it twice

I am not trying to push the troll's agenda. I hope that is not what you mean. If there are other trolls out to do the same, it does not compute logically to me. Andy will have the operation, the money is there and hopefully all will have a happy ending.

I am just saying that I fail to see why this continued attacks on other people who are posting reasonable opinions or questions, continues on. We can't ALL be trolls!

[salin]

154. The troll, clearly, failed.

Thank Goodness.

But I wanted to give voice to some of the emotions lying behind some of the posturing on these threads. Perhaps by understanding the emotional charge might help one understand ways of expressing caution that seem less a continuation of the trolls' efforts to paint Andy as a fraudster - and more of one as a cautionary tale for future efforts (both to fund seekers and fund givers.)

I do not mean to imply that you are intentionally pushing the troll's agenda. As you point out, and I concur, the troll failed. And if my suspicions per the origin of said troll are correct, then there is a modicum of poetic justice, as the ire at being foiled would undoubtedly create some emotional challenges.

However, what I do intend to say, is that by continuing asking questions in ways that seem to imply possible fraud, one might be unintentionally continuing the message of the troll. Had the troll not been turned back immediately, than this would be working to unintentionallly promote said troll's agenda - for example, by multiple threads in multiple places on the web were given to paypal as "evidence" of a potential ongoing fraud needing "investigation" (thus freezing the accounts during that time.) In short, skepticism, in this case, is also due on the originator of the charges of fraud... and unintentional, but tacit endorsements of that position might work to perpetuate said effort.

As I have read more - your questions per accounting seem legit - but I have to agree with folks that these questions should occur earlier in the process. Early enough to allow a response. Indeed the question - given the speed with which the whole need unfolded - might not have been thought through in advance... perhaps gently raising it (or even raising it through PMs) might have led to someone offering to take on a third-party accounting role.. a move that would have prevented the troll's initial efforts to gain any traction whatsoever.

[Malva Zebrina]

179. Sounds good

but to whom were the questions to be addressed? Andy? People who may not have been involved in the organisational aspects of that thread, dared not question anything on the thread or any thread for that matter. Those with an orderly mind were uncomfortable simply because of who they are. They may have not deliberately decided to throw a monkey wrench into it at all.

as far as complicity or enabling the troll, I cannot concur. If fear of asking questions about circumstances re $50,000 translates to fear of enabling troll, then that troll must have some power, indeed.

[EFerrari]

203. We are grown ups on this board.

If someone fears to raise a question, they need to handle their fear.

I know I've answered many in the last ten days or so.

I don't recall getting one from you. A question is, at bottom, the responsibility of the asker.

I may be misreading but you keep stating that people have been intimidated out of asking questions and that is simply untrue. I posted my personal contact information out there for anyone to have. It's still there.

And the group of people who rallied to put this together, as best as they could in the time they had, did a great job. There was not one single post deleted from Moby Dick, our 1600+ post thread.

So, if someone felt intimidated -- and I do believe that could happen -- a reality check is in order. There is a universe of difference between feeling intimidated and being intimidated. You seem to be conflating the two, very different, situations.

Beth

[Malva Zebrina]

216. no I am not conflating--I am, presenting my opinion in the face of

increasing confusion re this affair, and now, as I see, we seem to have a new thread and it has been locked because the original poster, Andy, deleted his own OP.

Some attribute this to emotional distress on the part of the poster. Well, I happen to think that $50,000 in an account needs to be questioned if that recipient continues to avoid questions and posts a post and then deletes it. What are we to make of that? That this is the fault of a troll?

Those people who contributed are entitled to know the facts, the factual facts, and not testimonials from loyal friends.

There are questions here, Beth, and it is best to confront those questions that deal with facts, and those who posit them honestly, OK? If they are wrong, then I am certain apologies would be forthcoming, at least from myself.

It is time to get this in order and stop this shit.

[EFerrari]

259. I find it interesting that you continue to insinuate that there are any

questions left unanswered or dodged or unconfronted. I repeat, I have answered many questions over the last ten days. None from you as none were asked.

And yes, you did conflate feeling intimidated with being intimidated. (Might want to reread your own post.) And you continue to do that. To what end?

I have put my personal contact information all over the net.

Andy's medical records have been posted to this site.

So, what is it about Skinner's plan that you have a problem with? I'm not sure why it is taking him so long to get verification. I've been a family mental health advocate for over a decade, and it's never taken me this long to get a release. Maybe there is something here that I'm not aware of. But, waiting until Andy is admitted is the simplest plan.

And not donating to something you don't trust would be even simpler. As I said, we are all grown ups here.

[bettyellen]

233. give it a rest, would you? it's late for sour grapes, and i don't believe

that you said you even did donate. we're supposed to believe this is out of concern for those who did? LOL. that's rich!!
what made you so bold at this crtical moment for andy when you didn't dare raise a question for two weeks? i call bullshit!
the account was frozen again because of these rumours.
but i have yest to see one post where a person says they donated to andy now regrets it.
so why do the same few of you desperately need to beat this drum??
lots of sour grapes, it's a hobby for some people, it seems. god knows why.
totally fucking pointless.

[EFerrari]

188. This is a very important point, I think.

I know the whole time I was wracking my brain to find a way to do this. When asked privately, I simply told what I knew without violating the law. One Duer needed some confirmation for a third party. We finally agreed that that person could simply call to check on Andy after the surgery.

The time frame, as we have already noticed, limited a lot of things. I don't know what could have been done about that.

As other people have pointed out, we need to work the bigger picture, the healthcare disaster in this country. Get with Bouncy Ball and do our best to END this situation were so many of us have no resources at all despite the fact that our taxes go to a dysfunctional health care system.

If we can raise money for one surgery $20 at a time, we can do that. :)

[salin]

210. there are times i greatly regret being correct.

the troll does indeed appear to have been trying to freeze the entire paypal account with her/his small $10 donation.

I would bet that every thread on every website expressing concern of fraud is being sent along to "prove" the need for an investigation - all the while freezing the funds and the ability for an operation to occur.

I still hope I am incorrect - but it appears to be the case. The troll - for the moment - may be winning. I would suggest that you frame your posts in a way that do not feed the fodder (eg the "evidence" that there is controversy around possible fraud and thus paypal MUST investigate on behalf of the single $10 donor.)

[EFerrari]

166. To highlight your remarks, this same troll did its best to upset and

derail me personally by sending me accusatory mails. An anonymous troll wanted me to verify Andy's personal information. :)

And then the accusations started coming in and then I had fun blocking email addresses. It was very deliberate and timed.

[salin]

168. the paypal incident

is what triggered my senses that this was MORE than just a troll trying to stir up dissent on DU (we see that regularly). Your experience seems to validate my "niggling extra sense." Multiple emailers were flooding your box, now I wonder from where that could be coordinated - with a handful of handy an accessible different emails/emailers... hmmmmm (okay - I shouldn't speculate, but it is just too easy not to.) Sorry that you had to go through that.

[EFerrari]

172. It was the same person using multiple addresses.

I alerted early in the locked thread because the troll signed its initials, the same name that it used when emailing me. Someone wants to actually get credit for doing this.

[salin]

174. yikes

"someone wants to actually get credit for doing this." YIKES! GRRR.

[EFerrari]

364. I'm rereading this thread and am quite disturbed by your assertions.

The way you characterize "Andy's friends" is inaccurate, at best. My OP opening this drive was crystal clear. And as it was a fluid situation, I updated the community as the situation changed. And I have records.

You seem not to have read the two main threads. I suggest you inform yourself before you continue to disinform others.

As to people treating you cruelly, you do have the options to ignore this thread or to alert on inappropriate posts. Why it would attract you in the first place, since you were not involved in the drive, is beyond me.

I would appreciate it if you would stop denigrating a well done community effort that you apparently know nothing about.

[Bridget Burke]

72. "We" will verify all this?

I believe that the people who need to do verification are handling things quite well.

Whether or not you think it is "prudent."

[Spazito]

73. It is resolved, for me and, I suspect, many others

IN FACT, it never was a problem to be 'resolved'. I do appreciate your edit to add your concern for Andy who doesn't need this crap but I must say that I find the earlier part of your post:

"Skinner will verify that Andy is indeed a patient going in for the Whipple procedure. Right Skinner? Need we verify that the cost of the operation and the projected five day stay, as someone here has said, is indeed, $50,000? I would think it prudent to do that also."

to be the antithesis of concern for Andy and, to me, negates your edited addition of concern for Andy in all this, but, hey, that's just me.

[Moosepoop]

75. Spazito

No, it's not just you. :toast:

[Lisa0825]

77. cute user name:-)

My sister lived in alaska, and she sent me moose poop earrings for Christmas once. LOL!

[Catherine Vincent]

106. You should hear her story on why she uses that screen name.

It's really cute!

[tavalon]

212. If the actual cost is only $50,000

I will be shocked. BTW, Skinner mentioned some concern when the amount to be raised went from $25,000 to $50,000 but what really happened is that from the start we knew that $50,000 would have to be raised but that the first $25,000 had to be raised in that first weekend as a "down payment" to even get him a surgery slot. So, the amount that needed to be raised over all never changed.

But there is no way such a complicated surgery costs only $50,000. They are either giving him a huge break on the cost or Andy and all of us are in for a rude shock. My estimate would be about $120,000, more likely a little higher.

[Spazito]

214. I said nothing about the cost whatsoever in my post

so I am assuming this is linked to the wrong post.

Edited to add: the mention of the 50,000 is a quote from the poster I responded to and not from me.

[tavalon]

367. My bad

it was a train of thought thing and the train moved on accidently. Sorry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

84. Baloney. The behavior of some has been downright ghoulish.

Sure nobody wants to be taken. My advice is don't risk what you don't have to give and then you won't be so damaged even if it IS a fraud.

I think the internet brings out the WORST in people..this message is as much for DU'ers as it is for people lurking from elsewhere.

The only thing that SHOULD concern anyone is THEIR money in this matter and Andy offered yesterday for anyone who is concerned to get their money back.

$50,000 is a lot of money everywhere BUT as an inpatient in a hospital being treated for cancer.

I am PROUD of DU and PROUD of our heart where other DU'ers are concerned.

I don't think anything more could or SHOULD have been done at the expense of NOT raising the money so that Andy might stand a snowball's chance in hell of surviving.

[merh]

85. ditto!

:applause:

[Bunny]

92. Yes, the way some people have carried on about this is

sickening. This is the internet folks. Give or don't give, it's your choice. But some of the comments raised here, repeatedly in a few cases, are just silly. Get over yourselves.

I believe 100% in Andy, I donated, and I wish him nothing but the best. I don't expect him to present his medical records for my review. I'll take the word of the dozens of respected DUers who know him and vouch for him - we're a community here, and if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

I also donated last year to Vetwife, who many of you will remember. You will also no doubt remember how SHE turned out. I was pissed that I gave her money and then she turned around and bad-mouthed us everywhere. But you know what? I can live with it. The amount I donated won't take any food out of my kids' mouths. If she spent it to buy booze and porn, oh well. It's the internet. Nobody made me donate. I can live with the loss.

[Malva Zebrina]

97. There you go

you have no way of knowing who contributed or who did not except fo those who choose to announce it on a thread. Did you know that Quakers shy from that and prefer anonymity? Some may have spent the last ten dollars in their account and some personalities are not like you, even though they may have contributed five hundered dollars to the fund.

If you don't care, that is fine--others, as well meaning as yourself, may care. Why attack them for asking reasonable questions?

I was married to an accountant, who compulsively lined up his socks in a special sock drawer like soldiers lined up for inspection. He would be appauled at sloppy accounting of monies and, simultaneously would have contributed one thousand dollars to help.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

98. It's not reasonable to expect someone to post their medical chart

on the internet.

IF anyone had a request of Andy personally, I am sure he would have answered or responded.

[greatauntoftriplets]

100. Of course, Andy would have responded.

Perhaps some would like a piece of "Bev" after it's been removed so they can run their own pathology report on it just to satisfy their morbid curiosity.....

[merh]

108. Nah

I prefer this visualization I suggested to Andy last night!

"visualize your tumor, by that name we shall not mention, being delicately and precisely removed by your dedicated and knowledgeable surgeon. Visualize that tumor, that mass of cancer, being tossed into the hospital incinerator, to burn to a crisp, barely ashes, never to harm again. The symbolism of that incinerator is incredible, for just as your tumor is tossed into the fires, so to will be the evil person that has caused you such anguish and stress."

[Spazito]

109. Ahhh, but then the request would be for a signed affidavit

from the surgeon that it is, indeed, "Bev" along with a signed affidavit that the surgeon is, indeed, the surgeon in question and yet another affidavit saying the surgeon vouching for the surgeon vouching that "Bev" is indeed the "Bev" in question.


At one time, I would call my own post hyperbole but, sadly, no more, it could yet be the request from a few.


Edited to add: There will NEVER be enough 'proof' for some because proof is not what they really seek, imo.

[salin]

122. agreed.

I think that the troll's intent yesterday was much bigger than seeking "proof". I think it was maliciously attempting to prevent things from moving forward either by a) creating a big enough "record" of question on the net to get paypal to freeze the whole account or... b) creating a "run on the market/account" (that is folks trying to ge their money back.) I think the point was to try to get Andy to not be able to have the procedure. And I think that is sick.

[Malva Zebrina]

111. Do you think it would have been reasonable to look to Skinner to

verify that as he is the one who permitted the fund raiser on his site?

Is it reasonable or unreasonable to expect, when an enormous sum of money such as $50,000 is raised in a very short period of time, that some guidance or accountability as to truth might be considered wise, as hard as that may sound to the ears of some, especially in this case?

[kitkatrose]

116. I think the point some people are trying to make is,

If you have doubts, be up front about them. Don't piddle around and give your money and not ask questions cuz you don't want to make waves or whatever, and then start feeling "did I get scammed?" and demanding answers. And if your doubts are severe enough, don't give in the first place. :shrug: And now it's really become the same few people I've observed doing this.

"Do you think it would have been reasonable to look to Skinner to"
verify that as he is the one who permitted the fund raiser on his site?

Is it reasonable or unreasonable to expect, when an enormous sum of money such as $50,000 is raised in a very short period of time, that some guidance or accountability as to truth might be considered wise, as hard as that may sound to the ears of some, especially in this case?

If you wanted verification, you could ask Andy or Skinner at the beginning, BEFORE YOU DONATE, to confirm if this is legit. It's not that dificult a concept. Being on the internet shouldn't make you lose your common sense. If something smells fishy to you, ask.

[Malva Zebrina]

132. The point is that because of the attacks which continue until this day

many persons avoided asking questions because of the defensiveness of those caught up in the heat of the moment. It was not acceptable for anyone to ask questions without having the whole load dump on them. That is what is so dangerous about things that are so emotionally loaded. Some information, some sharing, some explanations could have done a lot if persons felt unintimidated enough to ask a reasonable questions.

It is not their fault, they were protecting themself , and further, they may have donated, but feel that some accounting is necessary for their own reasons having to do with their own personalities or whatever. I think it fairly possible, given the bent of a lot of posts I have seen, that anyone questioning would have been jumped on immediately by the mob, scorned, accused of being cruel and a myriad of other accusations.



You don't know who contributed or who did not, in spite of the fact that they may have had questions to ask about it but were too intimidated to do so. Is that a good way to conduct a fund raiser?

[kitkatrose]

150. One big simple answer is to not donate.

No one is forcing you to donate to this cause, if seeing the threads makes you guilty, you can hide them, and if all that fails, stay away from DU for awhile.

People were defensive because no one seemed to have a problem until the troll posted. I think (don't quote me) but in the original 1600+ reply thread that some did ask and I don't remember people piling shit on them. Then again, I didn't read the whole thread, just enough to find the pertinent info. This problem with Andy didn't just come out of nowhere. He's been posting about it for weeks and even on this thread, someone posted the links if you want. What do you want him to do, post his medical records? Will Pitt said he did, and that got pulled because it had way too much personal info. I don't know how much you trust Will, and I didn't see the post, so take it for what it's worth.

If you don't want people to jump your post, there's pming and emailing your questions in private. No one (I don't think) would post your message to the world. And if your questions weren't answered or people crapped on you metaphorically, again, don't give.

You don't know who contributed or who did not, in spite of the fact that they may have had questions to ask about it but were too intimidated to do so. Is that a good way to conduct a fund raiser?

I don't feel sorry for them then. Putting money into a cause is pretty major. If you're too intimidated to ask questions, then please, don't donate. And I'm not being unfeeling, because I have this problem also, which would account for my lack of relationships with other people. But really, if you're not going to ask up front, you're only going to get your feelings hurt (my mama taught me that, thanks mama). Dammit, I forgot what I was going to put here. x( Oh, well.

The people doing the fundraiser were and are actually very nice about the whole thing. It's not their fault that one, or a few, people are too intimidated to pm their doubts.

[redwitch]

175. "conducting a fundraiser"

Uh. this was kinda impromptu and time being of the essence no one thought there was time to form a committee. Andy needed help, his friends asked for it, those who chose to give did so. End of story except for a miserable SOB who turned it into a real nightmare. I do not believe Skinner or anyone else is to be held responsible for whether or not I or anyone else here wants to donate $ for whatever reason. Sheesh, sorry that was barely English!

[OzarkDem]

225. Everyone has gone out of their way

to provide more than adequate explanations.

If you still have a concern about your donation, please feel free to send me a PM, tell me how much you donated and I'll reimburse the amount myself. Okay? Of course, I'll expect you to provide proof and adequate documentation as to the amount of your donation.

Otherwise, let it go.

If you didn't make a donation - well, one would wonder what your motive is in continuing to badger good people about this fundraiser.

[EFerrari]

356. I went out of my way to ask donors to contact me with the amount

of their donation. And of those who did, I have names and amounts. It worked very well. :)

[seventythree]

141. someone did ask and they were promptly excoriated

At one point Andy said he would post a diagnosis and his benefactors started posting -- oh, don't, that's personal. I believe Andy is ill and needs surgery, and if it were me, I would want it at the best research hospital for the problem, too. (Is JH a non-profit or a private hospital since it's getting banged for being a money grubbing private hospital?) I listen to the parsed language -- I listen to how the plea went out, and having a family member die in February of pancreatic cancer, I know something about it. The entire matter was NOT handled properly and it led to people questioning, and those who didn't handle it properly paved the way for the questions.
To learn that this plea for money, based on a matter of imminent life or death, was officially sanctioned by DU when other pleas for money have not been allowed, puts the onus on DU to have verified the diagnosis, nonmetastisized pancreatic cancer, and the immediate need. Beyond that, people could give as they see fit.

[kitkatrose]

152. Where did you see that?

Not to be snarky about it, but people requesting information, until this whole shitstorm came up, had been treated nicely, I thought. But then, I haven't read everything about this. Please, correct me if my impression is wrong.

[seventythree]

294. I'm afraid it is

I am not sure that all forums are now accessable, it was early on. I PM'd the poster who had inquired because he/she had not deserved such a pile on.

[bling bling]

334. I remember it from early on too.

Andy politely asked people to donate if they could and someone offered to donate but also politely asked to see some sort of proof of the situation. Andy responded nicely and offered to provide proof within a short amount of time as soon as he could get access to a scanner but within minutes there was a group of people ganging up on the person and I specifically remember the responses being very, very rude because it totally turned me off. I believe someone even said "HOW DARE YOU come into this thread and demand proof!! Just don't donate then, Andy's FRIENDS will take care of him..." or something very close to that.

It created a very awkward situation for anyone who would have happily donated if able to verify the information; but it also created an awkward situation, I'm sure, for Andy, too...who seemed to be getting indirectly bullied by people promising to help him while demanding that he not provide proof to anyone who dared to question the authenticity of the request on an anonymous website. I personally interpreted it as a "you're either with us *without proof* or your against us -in which case get the hell out of this thread-" attitude.

[seventythree]

365. thanks

that was my recollecion -- emotions have run high on this issue. For Andy's sake, let us hope that cooler heads prevail.

[EFerrari]

183. Two quick points.

1) When the hospital couldn't find their check (because of some mail routing glich), they promptly cancelled the surgery. That is a fact. And it took quite a bit of work to reverse that, down to the DUer who figured out whose desk the check was cooling on.

2) You said it yourself: "people give as they see fit". Until we have a better mechanism for these drives, that has to be the caveat.

I got donations and best wishes for Andy's surgery from all over the world.

Well done, DUers. You've done an amazing thing.

Beth

/typin

[seventythree]

303. it is the better mechanism

that we are trying to achieve from the lessons learned on this one.

[EFerrari]

309. Exactly. And that would be very valuable to the community.

But character assasination doesn't have to be a part of developing a good policy.

We'll learn. We have to, because health care will get worse before it gets better. Let's just try to do our best and to be careful as we walk down this path. :)

[seventythree]

317. agreed, and I hope you don't think

I have been guilty of character assassination -- it certainly wasn't any intent of mine.

[EFerrari]

320. Not at all. We're blazing a new trail on the healthcare front

and are going to trip over a few roots while we're at it. We need to mend the system (long term) and try to do something for people in need (short term).

And, we can try to be smart and careful about the whole process. What else could you ask from a person? :)

[seventythree]

323. can't ask anything else -- we learn as we go

[OzarkDem]

230. No good deed goes unpunished

Please look deep in your heart and try to find a shred of compassion for Andy. If you can't offer supportive sentiments, why would you want to say cruel things?

Also, the law protects medical information. No one needs to parade their pathology report for your review to solicit a donation. Do you also ask to see the medical records of every patient served by other charities you may donate to?

Show a little kindness and let this drop. I'll make you the same offer. If you can prove you made a donation, I'll glady refund your money out of my own pocket. I had no part in this fundraiser, but I'm sick of hearing this talk.

[seventythree]

302. You don't get it and reply from the same emotional

position as so many others here, and I am not saying that to be mean. Everybody, and I mean everybody, sends postive light and healing to Andy -- that's not what any of this has been about -- it has been about being upfront about the situation -- what is needed and why -- it has been about NOT dribbling out information when things get snarky -- it has been about always having full disclosure and basing whatever decision one wishes to make on that. It actually started that way with Andy, himself, being,imo,very candid about what was happening to him, but it degenerated. I believe his benefactors were operating out of good intentions, but the subsequent lack of candor has gotten everyone to where they are today. It is a lesson to be learned. If you want specifics, you can PM me.

[OzarkDem]

327. Medical information is private

Its against the law and against good common sense to reveal personal medical information. You will get verification when the time is right.

Do you get full disclosure about every patient or client served from every charity you donate to? I doubt it.

I'll make you the same offer I've made others. If you made a donation, I'll be happy to give you a refund out of my own pocket, just provide me with verification that you made the donation.

[seventythree]

363. charities which help the ill

have internal verification, and the charity as a whole operates as a 501 c 3 with fully verifiable financials which I can access -- and yes, I do check out charities before I give. There are sites where you can get the info on admin costs, etc., and I don't give to those which don't have a very high percent of the money going to the population they are to serve. I regret that you didn't PM me so I could lay out specifics of why I think this situation has gotten muddled.
Here's the dilemma as I see it -- costs may escalate. While the whipple at JH has a low mortality rate (3%); there is a high complication rate (40-50%) so costs could go up. I don't know if there is additional cost for the experimental trials, or if they will require Andy to be tethered to JH with a need for living expenses. If costs escalate, you will need to cast a wider net for donations. If questions remain, you will be impeded in that quest. Don't shoot yourself in the foot.

[merh]

119. Do you think Skinner would have allowed it if he didn't trust

Andy, Will Pitt, et al?

Stop demanding proof, stop over analyzing everything and move on. If you gave money and want it back, I will gladly pay the difference. If you can't have faith in another human being, then there is nothing I can do to restore your trust. But, I can expect you to stop rehashing the same old, same old. Its over, its done with, stop making negatives out of a very, very postive experience.

We did something for another human being. We need to celebrate that, not second guess each other.

[Malva Zebrina]

137. Merh

stop trying to poison the well and stop trying to portray me as an uncaring, selfish, cynical, unfaithless, untrusting and bitter person who wants my money back.

You have not read my posts and if you have, then I have failed to get my message across. Now, you come on to provoke,in some sort of anger (anger over what, I wonder?) instead of addressing what I said. I am posting reasonably; you are upset for some reason I cannot understand, and resort to attacking. See?

This is the kind of attack I was talking about in my first post. Why do you do this?

[merh]

140. ...

Again, if you want the money you donated returned, please provide me a number so I can take care of it. I would rather go broke myself than take money for a sick friend from someone that is doubting his sincerity or the sincerity of those that have supported him.

Go back and read your posts and the responses you have received from others, you will see that you are the one with issues. Sad for you, but don't make them ours.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

126. I'm not clear what you mean by "especially in this case".

And, while I could post here or forward to Skinner my email exchange with Johns Hopkins, that would be inappropriate.

It would violate Federal Law.

And, it still wouldn't give us a mechanism that we could use as a community to verify these situations. That is, I trust, what Skinner is doing so carefully right now.

I hope you eventually find what you're looking for.

[Malva Zebrina]

142. I don't understand

what makes you think I am looking for anything?

I'm posting like you and everybody else.

Especially in this case refers to gravity of the illness. It cannot be compared to say, another instance where a poster, who was here and who got a lot of money from DU'ers and it was a scam.

[EFerrari]

144. Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. n/t

[valis]

157. Look, suspecting that Skinner, who's such a visible person

would be in on a 50K scam that could be so easily busted is really insulting. Not only because it questions his ethics, but also because it questions his intelligence. Why would somebody risk it all for something so little that can be busted so easily? Just THINK guys...

[Pathwalker]

129. HOW much money did you donate? You sound like you

donated a boatload, and since you're so terribly worried, I can only assume you donated far more than you're comfortable with. Perhaps, you could tell us, so that others can donate to make up for the amount you need refunded. I'll join with the other poster in offering to make up what I can afford to, so you won't have to bear the responsibility of giving more than you can afford.

[salin]

130. I will join in on that point as well

to offset the cost - since it is so troubling to said poster.

[Malva Zebrina]

153. Very nice

It sure does help to understand that what I am saying here and complaining about, may indeed, have a basis in fact. My way or the highway--go with this group--don't ask any questions that are against the chaff sanctified by the group. and, attack.

See? It's like a virus that spreads all over the thread.

[salin]

158. On an earlier (just posted) response

I give a suggestion. I do not think that the idea that one seeking funds offers an "accountability" plan is unreasonable. Just that at this instant the timing is bad, and a bit post-fact. The timing is bad due a) to the earlier troll's ugly dance yesterday, and b) the proximity (time wise) to the serious medical procedure.

Instead - perhaps early on suggesting that those seeking funds lay out some sort of plan for accounting (eg a thirdparty book keeper with a scheduled time to release some kind of report) - might be better received. While that, too, would have been probably met with some skepticism... it could have saved Andy and allies a great deal of heartache - as a preventative shield against the troll's efforts.

Perhaps laying your concerns in a "in the future" frame, rather than one that implies (whether intended or not) that fraud might still be involved... probably would change the tenor of some of the conversations in which you are currently engaged.

[Pathwalker]

161. I make an offer to help - THAT's attacking?

YOU are the one insisting that others MUST see it YOUR way - I just offered to HELP. Sheesh. If you're so worried about the money - here's an offer to HELP.
If you're worried about it being a scam, look at all those who have VOUCHED for Andy, don't just discount them.
If you're worried about others spending THEIR money, let them worry about their own CHOICES. NO ONE gets out of life without being fooled at least once - NO ONE. But to use that as an excuse to refuse to have an ounce of faith in anyone or anything is taking it too far, IMO.
But to complain when someone offers you HELP, and call it an attack -
well... :rofl:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

186. It isn't group think to ask you to demonstrate a little class

when a man who has cancer and has just been moved by the people who donated it is reading the thread.

Those that NEEDED confirmation should have asked for it before donating.

IT isn't a virus that people disagree with you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

143. Two or three people have made it an issue..I think they should have

done what it took to put their own fears at ease. Skinner isn't anyone's daddy or financial advisor.

He allowed it based on his trust of the people involved. He neither endorsed it NOR promoted it.

He also allows people to post nice things about certain recording artists. Should he listen to every CD first? WE're talking for most contributors about the same amount of investment, after all.

[fleabert]

331. why in the world don't you handle this on PM rather than keeping

it up on the thread for all to see, considering all you now know about the trolls intentions?

:evilfrown: :eyes:

[merh]

102. Giving . . .

There are those who have little and give it all. These are the believers in life and the bounty of life, and their coffer is never empty. There are those who give with joy, and that joy is their reward.
-Kibran

[Malva Zebrina]

112. That is a lovely saying

I am not so concerned with what I get out of it to tell the truth, but can understand that feeling in some. My mother would have embroidered that and hung it on the wall.

[merh]

123. How sincere!

:sarcasm:

[merh]

134. Giving (continued)

You often say, "I would give, but only to the deserving."

The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your pasture.
They give that they may live, for to withhold is to perish.

Surely he who is worthy to receive his days and his nights is worthy of all else from you.

And he who has deserved to drink from the ocean of life deserves to fill his cup from your little stream.

And what desert greater shall there be than that which lies in the courage and the confidence, nay the charity, of receiving?

And who are you that men should rend their bosom and unveil their pride, that you may see their worth naked and their pride unabashed?

See first that you yourself deserve to be a giver, and an instrument of giving.

For in truth it is life that gives unto life - while you, who deem yourself a giver, are but a witness.

kahlil gabran

[Malva Zebrina]

155. Talking

On Talking

And then a scholar said, "Speak of Talking."

And he answered, saying:

You talk when you cease to be at peace with your thoughts;

And when you can no longer dwell in the solitude of your heart you live in your lips, and sound is a diversion and a pastime.

And in much of your talking, thinking is half murdered.

For thought is a bird of space, that in a cage of words many indeed unfold its wings but cannot fly.

There are those among you who seek the talkative through fear of being alone.

The silence of aloneness reveals to their eyes their naked selves and they would escape.

And there are those who talk, and without knowledge or forethought reveal a truth which they themselves do not understand.

And there are those who have the truth within them, but they tell it not in words.

In the bosom of such as these the spirit dwells in rhythmic silence.

When you meet your friend on the roadside or in the market place, let the spirit in you move your lips and direct your tongue.

Let the voice within your voice speak to the ear of his ear;

For his soul will keep the truth of your heart as the taste of the wine is remembered

When the colour is forgotten and the vessel is no more.

Same guy

[merh]

160. You seem to be doing alot of that - talking.

Again, why have you continued to beat the dead dog? The matter has been explained, the issues have been recognized, analyzed and resolved, yet you continue to poison the well and accuse others of trying to poison it.

Read the words and let them sink in.

[Malva Zebrina]

163. Merh

...

And when you can no longer dwell in the solitude of your heart you live in your lips, and sound is a diversion and a pastime.

And in much of your talking, thinking is half murdered. ...

See? Two can play that game. :-)



I am being attacked just because I said I wondered why people are attacking people who ask questions about this whole affair--that was my first post. Stop attacking and we can talk nice.

[merh]

169. You have not been attacked. It is you that is attacking.

Folks have explained and reasoned and responded to your inquiries, yet you continue to beat your drum of dissent while trying to remain innocent and pure.

How many times do you want answers to your questions? How many posters must respond? My replies are out of shear frustration, for nothing you ask is legimate to the issue or the cause. Your questions simply continue to spread distrust and encourage the anger.

DU did a good thing, a wonderful thing. A majority of DUers came together to help a friend in need. Why do you have more questions? He is truly sick, the money is really going to John's Hopkins and we did a great thing.

Why do I respond, because I am tired of folks challenging one of the best things DUers have ever come together to do - to unite to save the life of a friend. Would you debate which life saver to throw to a drowing man, or would you just throw him one in an effort to help him stay afloat?

[Malva Zebrina]

178. Merh

You have every right to want that recognition. Indeed it was a wonderful thing. People are not challenging that. People may be saying that the mess that was created, may not have been necessary and you have to admit, it was a little bit of a mess--a sad one causing skinner to intervene and stop all threads related to Andy.

People may also be saying that it was and still is reasonable to ask questions in a reasonable and mature manner. You do that accomplishment no big favors when you make snide and sarcastic remarks and accuse them of trying to smear your efforts or steal the thunder or whatever. That is what I am saying.

Now stop accusing me of stirring up a hornet's nest and lashing out. This is DU--a message board that has some 60,000 registrants. People are different in many ways.

I am tired of talking nice to you now. I will not answer you anymore.

[merh]

181. Stop addressing me as if you know me, you don't.

I seriously doubt you and I would be found in the same circles.

Second, I didn't do anything for the recognition. I did it for a friend, to help him when he really needed help. Now, if that is something foreign to you, helping for the sake of helping with no reward, then so sorry for you. Like I have said, if you have issues with trust, then try counseling, don't take them out on us and don't blame me or others on DU.

Asking questions is great, asking the same blessed question over and over and over again, ignoring the answers that have been provided because you don't agree with them or they don't fit into your clean little pattern of society and existence, well that is simply pathetic and rude.

Again, I ask you, would you stand around and question which life ring to throw a drowning man or would you just throw him one in an effort to help him remain afloat?

Time was a concern, time was limited and in 10 days, the money was raised. Was it done perfectly - no - but I don't know of anything that ever is done perfectly. Is there room for improvement, yes, just like with everything. But you know what, despite the flaws, the errors and the nagging questions, we, not just me the majority of DU members did something grand, did something good. Not for the recognition, not for the applause, not for the attention, but because it was the right thing to do.

And don't kid yourself, there is nothing nice about any of your posts to me. And, your failure to respond again will not bother me in the least!

:hi:

[hiley]

189. Malva Zebrina, enough is enough........

Why don't you go do something useful, please ?
What you have been today appears divisive not constructive at all.



These mid-wives are purported to have said they no longer look forward to births as.... "We don't know what's going to come out."
http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html



"You Must be the Change you Wish to see in the world"
Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)
http://www.gandhiproject.org/project/project.html

[Bunny]

114. I see you edited your post to include your comment about

people announcing their donor status. And how the Quakers shy away from that. Was that a jab at me? Just asking, since you did edit it in.

Frankly, the time to ask reasonable questions is before you donate. I don't recall much skepticism going on here over the last two weeks while money was being raised. (I didn't read all the threads, maybe I missed it.) This seemed to become a problem just yesterday, when ONE troll, and a few other DUers, decided that maybe this should be looked into. The timing was suspect, shall we say.

My opinion is that if you want an accounting, ask before you give. I see nothing wrong with attempting to verify that your money is going to a worthy cause. If you're not as concerned about it, like me, then no worries. But to come in after the deed is done, and start raising eyebrows, when there has been no real evidence of fraud, is just nasty and mean-spirited.

[kitkatrose]

117. Great minds and all that..

:toast: Looks like you beat me to the post. See 116.

[Malva Zebrina]

159. No, no harm meant

my opinion that I have stated is that people who asked, were attacked. Not only in this instance, but in past fund raisings.

Some of these may have indeed donated; because they ask does not mean they are cruel, unfeeling or out to do harm and if questions are not asked now, or any attempt made to discuss the mistakes made in this sad affair, how can anyone improve it should it happen again?

[Spazito]

170. What I don't understand is why there seems to be a few who

think we need a 'donation' nanny, who seem to think we do not have the smarts to decide to donate as an individual choice based on our own individual criteria, who seem to want to 'protect' us from ourselves. Speaking for myself, I need NO donation 'nanny', I am quite capable of donating based on my individual criteria.

As to the concern on how fundraisers are done on DU, a few thoughts:

Is this the appropriate thread to raise concerns or would it be better and more compassionate to separate the two issues, Andy's situation and the more generic aspect of fund raising at DU and address your suggestions, concerns, ideas, etc, to the admins in the form of an e-mail? It seems to me an e-mail to the admins would be the more appropriate way to handle this.

As to the tenor of response to those who have questions, could it be the tone and tenor in which the questions have been posed and the timing of them that has generated what you seem to see as an inappropriate response.

Finally, most, if not all, are very aware of "Buyer Beware" or in this instance "Donor Beware" prior to acting and chose to act for their own reasons.

[kaygore]

328. Isn't it better to give and believe

than not to give at all? If sometimes (and I in no way mean this specific case of trying to help Andy) we give and get nothing in return, wasn't the act of giving and believing enough? The reward is in the giving and believing that in so doing the world might be a little bit better.

[Spazito]

348. Absolutely!

That is certainly what I believe.

[fleabert]

330. ditto!

I am of the opinion that I would rather donate and it be a scam, than not donate, and it not be a scam.

I am a true bleeding heart, and I gave freely what I could afford to give for a cause I believed to be true, and that's all I need to sleep well at night.

I expect nothing from Andy except that he kick cancers ass!

[Career Prole]

173. "...then maybe some plans should be made to avoid this kind of mess"

Here's a plan then...if you don't trust the messenger or the messenger's messenger or for chrissake if you just don't trust, then DON'T GIVE!

Jeebus, it ain't rocket science! If the story doesn't fit, do not remit!

I'm sending some money Friday. I hadn't yet because I didn't have it to give but payday I will because I'm embarrassed by the dopes who gave and then had second thoughts because of a stinkin' troll (despite about a gig of reassurances) and I'm enraged by the "concerned citizens" who didn't give yet feel somehow moved to voice their concerns even though they don't even have a horse in the race. To them I say mind yer bizness.
:rant:

[Missy Vixen]

184. Thank you

>Jeebus, it ain't rocket science! If the story doesn't fit, do not remit!<

I have met Andy twice. I'm sure he will agree that I was his toughest critic IRL. :hide:

We donated for his surgery. If he needs more money post-surgery, we'll donate again. I'm only sorry that I am not close enough to donate blood if he needs it, and there are very few people in this life I'd do that for.

Julie (and DH)

[NNN0LHI]

213. Thats nice and all but...

...I would donate my blood to anyone who needed if I were a match and they asked me to. And I do mean anyone. Even a Republican.

Don

[Jesus Saves]

180. If someone had challenged Bev Harris

way back in the day.

I'm sure that person would have been torn to shreds by all the 'good people' on DU.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

187. Actually some of us did challenge her every step of the way

I'm still here. :hi:

Again..if you have the courage of your convictions then post them and don't worry about all the "good people" on DU. If you are a chicken and then have concerns in hindsight, that isn't this community's problem, it's yours.

[Jesus Saves]

194. Kudos

to you if you challenged her back then.

BTW, Goldens are the best dogs, IMO.

[OzarkDem]

222. Info about treatment and costs

Plenty here if you want to know what standard care is for pancreatic cancer

http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancertopics/types/pancreatic

more guidelines for treatment

http://www.guideline.gov/summary/summary.aspx?ss=15&doc_id=5510&nbr=3753

Cost of cancer care -

Uninsured patients pay the highest price for cancer treatment. Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance companies negotiate discounts.

Retail price for 1 year of cancer care for a pancreatic cancer patient, including diagnostic testing, lab work, surgery and chemotherapy today is around $80,000 or more in Medicare dollars, about 3 times that for an uninsured patient.

[Mojorabbit]

321. Fifty grand is cheap

I doubt it will come close to paying for the hospital stay. I certainly don't need to see an itemized bill. Jeebus.

[ohtransplant]

88. 2:20 PM ET and all is well!

Seems to be time to lower the anxiety level in here.

All you kids, get outside and play. The weather is nice and you can't stare at your computer all day!

Shoo!, Shoo!, Get!, Out you go! You can come back inside when your father gets home from work.

Time to decompress a little. This issue seems to be well in hand and is being handled by capable people.

Nothin' to see here. Keep it moving...

[greatauntoftriplets]

94. Thanks, Skinner.

Knowing Andy as well as I do, I knew he would do everything in his power to cooperate fully. He is that kind of guy.

[rumpel]

95. Proof issue aside, JH still mismanaged Andy's timely care.The full payment

was in their possession on Monday. They better acknowledge and apologize for this to Andy and all who tried to beat a deadline for this surgery to happen.
If their internal management had not been sloppy, this "proof" issue would have been long over.

Isn't it proof enough that $50,000 was delivered to JH, and did not end up elsewhere?

[EFerrari]

103. Clarification: $50K was not delivered on Monday because all the

funds were not yet available. But, more than $32K were, and Finance had agreed to go forward on that basis.

Fyi.

Beth

/typin'

[rumpel]

191. Ok. It is more than half, and they received it. Folks, it was not sent

offshore!

Thanks for the clarification

:hi:

[EFerrari]

201. Can I tell you a really cool thing? JH couldn't find it but one of

our own DUers is on the campus. And knows how to find things. This DUer got up in the wee hours, looked up the employee that signed for the check and gave me name and number. A DUer found the check!

Just amazing. :hi:

[valis]

136. I tend to think the same... But hospitals are disorganized...

Levels and levels of bureaucracy, severely overworked people at multiple levels, probably lots of job dissatisfaction... Just guesses...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

101. Thank you so much, Skinner, for your diligence in following up on this

unfortunate matter...You have been so calm and organized about all of this. We are lucky in the extreme to have you working on our behalf. Thank you again...

[wakeme2008]

105. Thanks Skinner for the update

:grouphug: for all those that made this possible for Andy....

[kaygore]

110. Thank you

Thank you for the update and for your level headness through all of this!

[Branjor]

115. Out of curiosity.....

the Whipple Procedure is quite commonly done for pancreatic problems. Why go acrosss the country to get it done? Why not seek out a hospital in one's home state where the possibility of obtaining financial aid is greater if one is a state resident?

Just curious.

[EFerrari]

118. Because the success rate at JH easily outstrips any other facility

that we know of.

[Branjor]

121. Oh, I see.....

Wow, it sucks not to be a Marylander in this case. We need such good facilities all over the country.

[DTinAZ]

125. Simple answer: survival rates

My father-in-law had it done last Fall (in California), developed a serious internal Staph infection (probably due to issues with the procedure and the hostipital in which it was performed), lost a lot of weight (he was skinny to start out with), and died in March, after a steady decline.

Johns Hopkins was chosen because of the higher likelihood of a positive outcome.

[Stephanie]

127. and because at JH he can be in a clinical trial of an experimental vaccine

They are running a clinical trial of an experimental pancreatic cancer vaccine, and Andy was accepted into the trial group. This was an amazing stroke of luck, thanks to a friend who was able to help Andy get accepted into this program at JH. That's why he's at JH instead of home in Washington - for the clinical trial. And also because they are just the best.

[DTinAZ]

128. "was accepted" or "might be accepted"?

IIRC from the recent threads, I think "might" is what was communicated, but someone kindly correct me if I'm misremembering that detail.

[Stephanie]

135. Was accepted

He applied, was turned down because it was full. Then someone who knew someone was able to convince them to accept him in the trial.

[DTinAZ]

145. I stand corrected n/t

Thanks, Stephanie

[seventythree]

149. Finally, finally getting some truth

that's exactly what I had thought as soon as I learned about the vaccine clinical trial and a poster mentioned that she used her husband (and evidently told JH Andy had insurance)to get him in. For surgery, you need the consult/referral and the money. Now, does Andy have pancreatic cancer? Or a precursor tumor? There can be no metastasis to enter that trial. Pancreatic tumors are virulent, and this trouble started in February.

[EFerrari]

156. There have been no untruths told here.

No one told the hospital that Andy had insurance. I think fly was upset when she realized she didn't tell them he didn't have insurance.

Please be careful :)

/spelling

[seventythree]

313. I will try to be careful

but I remember the post pretty clearly, I think. Perhaps someone else was not clear in their wording? Or maybe I misread something? Assuming I can call up the applicable thread, I will correct myself if I am in error. I have no problem making a correction if I misspoke.

[EFerrari]

336. Thanks. n/t

[seventythree]

368. having reread my post

I apologize for my poor word choice -- I should have said, finally getting more complete information, not truth. I did not mean to imply that anyone had not told the truth regarding Andy's situation. I think in the future it would be helpful if there were an officially designated "up dater." What has happened is that the flurry of posts has resulted in lost information. While I did not see it at the time, I found in the archives -- internal to a thread -- where Andy spoke of the clinical trials for the vaccine and that he couldn't get into the program because it had been closed so was having the surgery in Seattle. He mentioned that to get into the program, one had to have the whipple at JH, which is absolutely true, and one could deduce that the postponement of the surgery in Seattle was the result of trying to access this program.

Through the help of a friend and God's mercy, he was included in the program, eventually. So when a poster asked why wasn't this surgery being done somewhere else (Seattle? where, although we were never told, to my knowledge -- again the info could be internal to some thread -- he presumably had success with his Medicaid application) the complete answer would have been -- he has to have the surgery at JH to be included in the new vaccine clinical trials which WILL offer him the best chance for survival.

Knowledge brings understanding which results in charity, in it's larger meaning not just monetary meaning.

[Donailin]

285. I think it is metastisized

I believe I 'read' Andy say he has cancer on the head of his pancreas. I've also known someone who had it but wasn't diagnosed until the bile duct ruptured and he'd fallen ill, by then it was too late and he died within months. This person was in his early sixties. Andy was on MSNBC not too long ago, maybe a month? and he looked healthy, quite healthy. Good color, this was after he had suffered from an attack of some sort that produced jaundice and after he was diagnosed, so maybe his youth and otherise good health would allow him to be in the trial. . ?

[seventythree]

304. Cancer in the head does not mean it has

metastasized -- metastasize refers to a spread to other organs -- generally the liver, lymph nodes, or lungs in this kind of cancer. In the nodes, it may or may not be inoperable -- liver or lungs it is, except for palliation, ie, relief of symptoms like a closed bile duct. If you read the protocol on the vaccine you will see what is required to be in the study.

[Lisa0825]

167. I did some research on this last week...

I found a paper referenced that showed that for the Whipple Procedure, since it is a complicated surgery, the survival rate is directly proportional to the number of procedures a surgeon a done. Therefore, it only makes sense to try to get the doctor most experienced with the whipple.

[valis]

131. This makes total sense. I was wondering about that.

"We provide millions of dollars a year in uncompensated care and as a good citizen of Maryland, give preference to Maryland citizens for such assistance."

[BigTentDemocrat]

139. Eridani - Please respond re: the "Fake David" from last week

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3587375

I believe I know who this is. Please let me know the name of the Yahoo users group, so I can join and examine the post's source info.

Thank you.

TJ

[Andy_Stephenson]

148. The Fake David is our own

Kelvin Mace. A real standup guy. He is not the problem. Trust me on this.

The problem comes for the other BBV site.

[mogster]

162. Is he hospitalized yet? *don't wanna look*

Or is he still hopping around the US making speeches? ;-)
I have good wishes with freshly repaired landing gear and GPS, ready to track him down.

No, but really? :-)

And Skinner, I'm so sorry this landed in your lap. You guys were lenient with the surplus threads and everything, very moderate moderating, for sure.

[EFerrari]

171. Hiya, mogster. He's getting some testing done this week and we're

waiting for the hospital to give us a date. He's staying with a DUer in Baltimore with Termite.

[mogster]

185. Glad to hear that

:bounce: So, where did all the bouncey's go? :applause: :applause:

:-)

[EFerrari]

193. Hey, I'm making split pea soup

with horseradish and fresh sourdugh and cheese. We're celebrating tonight. (And my poor husband gets to eat some real food!)

:hi:

[mogster]

202. I have pictures of some local specialities...

Uhm...no, never mind ;-)

Have a nice dinner! :D

[EFerrari]

204. Thank you for your self restraint.

:rofl:

[merh]

209. Split pea!

So does the horseradish go in the soup? :freak:
Never heard of such.

[EFerrari]

215. Goes in the soup as a garnish. Got from my upstate NY

Mom in law, so don't slam that California thing. :) It works pretty good. :hi:

[merh]

218. Horseradish is mixed with ketchup and worchestire sauce to

make a cocktail sauce for shrimp and fish (can add some Tabasco if you have a mind to). But split pea --- yankees do some strange things with food.

Don't put it in your gumbo! yaya

[EFerrari]

283. LOL! I won't!

Spirit mending Split pea Soup

A bag of split peas
Enough water to drown them for a few hours
3 cloves garlic
1 ham hock (cracked)
a bunch of black pepper
a bunch of scallions
salt to throw over your shoulder
wee bit of olive oil
some nice, fresh horse radish
paprika

Brown the ham hock in a kettle in olive oil. Then, throw peas,garlic, black pepper, scallions in, covering with water to about the top of the pot. Let it boil then, turn the heat 'way low for a few hours (maybe two).

You can strain this if you want to take all the character out of it. We just ladle the mess into deep bowls. Sprinkle it with paprika and toss in about a table spoon of horseradish.

We like to have it with fresh sourdough bread to dip and some sharp cheese. Cats like the cheese part. :)

[merh]

291. Damn, it's too late to cook it tonight

and my spirits could use some mending. x(

Thanks for the recipe. It does sound yummy :9

But this means I would have to find my skillet and I am not quite sure where I put my pots. :freak:

[Individualist]

226. How much horseradish do you use?

That sounds really good.

[merh]

297. I'll make the soup, if I find my skillet

but I don't know about that horseradish touch! :* :+

[Individualist]

227. Dupe; please delete

[elare]

164. So much misdirected anger ...

I can't understand why all this anger isn't going in the appropriate direction. If the USA had some sort of National Health Care system, this whole thing would NOT be an issue, because the need to raise money for someone's medical treatment would NOT exist.

If you have to be angry, direct it at the cause of the problem and use that anger to try to force a solution. Get behind Bouncy Ball and the others who are trying to organize a march on Washington in the fall and try a make a change. Use your anger productively!

Quit sniping at Andy, Johns Hopkins and everyone else. Taking your anger out on the nearest target isn't going to change a damn thing.

[bigwillq]

176. Thanks Skinner. You're still in my thoughts Andy!

:hug:

[Casper]

205. from the peanut gallery

I've been an occasional poster, regularly reader, huge fan, of DU since my hubby joined several years ago.

I was so moved by the fundraising for Andy. It is remarkable to me that we, as humans, can establish trust of this kind, in large part thru typing and posting. Certainly, there are some who have met "in real life", and their trust contributed to the overwhelming support for Andy. As moved as I have been by the outpouring of support, I'm equally disgusted by those that choose to jump on the "hoax bandwagon" and keep it fueled.

In my world, the mere act of giving is the point. Once I send the check, press send, or hand the buck to the panhandler I cease to be involved. Call me a crazy (you wouldn't be the first) but that's the way I believe charity should work.

[enigmatic]

206. Great post.

I really like this:

"In my world, the mere act of giving is the point. Once I send the check, press send, or hand the buck to the panhandler I cease to be involved. Call me a crazy (you wouldn't be the first) but that's the way I believe charity should work."

Please post more, we need more of this here:)

[merh]

207. Beautiful post!

And exactly the point. Thank you for taking the time to write this post.

:hi: Casper, the occasional poster, may I welcome you to DU! :hug:

[ultraist]

217. Exactly Casper!

Additionally, people should take responsibility for their own actions rather than blame others, if after the fact, they feel they made a poor decision. No one was forced to DONATE. I happen to feel good about my decision to donate, but if I did have regrets, it would be no one's fault but my own.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[nicknameless]

208. Thanks for the update, Skinner

And for your delicate handling of this complex and sensitive situation.

[Vektor]

219. Kick, and thank you!

Good work, citizen.

[lala_rawraw]

224. Call me crazy, but

I am concerned because given what is going on and what we know thus far, I don't think this is a direct attack on Andy. I think Andy is being used to attack either DU as a whole or people at DU. Now, everyone, brainstorm and tell me what you think.

[Goldmund]

228. What makes you think that?

Andy is the one who is sustaining obvious damage.

DU as a whole -- I'm not sure.

[ScreamingMeemie]

229. Even if it were...how can they attack a community for caring about one

of its own, enough to take care of him? The world is full of creeps and jerks who will do anything for attention. I fear someone has it in for Andy and will use whatever means possible to keep him quiet.

My one concern is for Andy and his health. I wish there was a way to keep him from worrying about this. I wish there was a way I could just give him the whole damned amount...disruptors be damned.

There is a special place in hell for these people...and there will be ( i hope) a lot of red faces on a lot of other websited for their vulture like actions.

Laura

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WilliamPitt]

232. .

[bettyellen]

234. a few more people asked for refunds today, paypal is using it as

an excuse to see what's up with the account.
he was only set back 1,500. but it's giving paypal an excuse to hold on longer than they are supposed to. they say they're trying to sort it out faster, but i think andy's just going to put the balance on plastic.
did he answer you will? he was trying to, but he was pretty upset.

[Goldmund]

240. Plastic?

Why didn't he do that to begin with, if he has available plastic, rather than go through this ordeal in his state of mind and body?

[bettyellen]

249. why don't you read up on his situation before telling him-- or any of us

what to do?
9K on plastic when you don't have a job -- and won't for a cople of months is a foolish and desperate act. and it's to cover a delay/possible shortfall caused by fucking trolls.

[Goldmund]

254. I know the situation

and chill, I didn't mean it as an attack of any sort. I was just honestly asking a question. Sure, it's a desparate act, but if there's a time to make desparate acts, then it is when you're about to receive a life-saving surgery that you need ASAP -- that's just my reasoning. If you've read my posts about this (though there have been few), you know that I'm not one of those who has his boxers in a wad demanding proof for my 20 bucks that I donated. But I've read this story with interest, and I was simply asking a question, and I think it's an obvious one to ask.

[bettyellen]

261. you're not thinking things through.........

and you're not the person i was referring to at all. so i have deleted that part of the post.
i'm so sorry, there's been an excess of , "oh this should be soo easy posts. "
and, i'm now sure you realize, nothing could be further from the truth.
sorry, gold. pls forgive me.

[Goldmund]

266. Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else???

"but i see from your posts you've asked lots of questions that have been answered again and again."

What posts???

"assuming you are just not reading up would be the nicest possible interpetation. it's not mine,
but for the sake of being civil, i'll pretend you're as ignorant as you say you are about how hospitals, credit cards and federal laws work."

Listen. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I do know that you're being insulting and making a broad-brush attack not based on much reason.

I'll pretend it's because of the stress you're under, to paraphrase you.

[bettyellen]

295. i was, and i'm sorry.

i fixed the original post and PM'd you and then i realized i should say so here.
sorry. so many people with "innocent questions" and i royally screwed up.

[Goldmund]

296. It's totally cool.

:)

[Catherine Vincent]

308. Gold,

Andy more than likely used a kind friend's plastic, not his. If he's like me, he's probably maxed out on them.:-)

[kaygore]

329. Plus most bankruptacies

result from putting medical expenses on credit cards

[valis]

333. I cannot believe anybody reasonable would donate and then

take it back...

[salin]

337. unless of course...

the troll tuesday gave other trolls the idea - and some donations were given strictly for the purpose of taking them back out - and slowing the whole process down.

[KC21304]

360. Bingo !! I think that is exactly what happened.

And that was what I suspected right away when I saw the copy of the paypal reply to the donor.

[Jesus Saves]

236. It seems it would be easy for Paypal

to find the truth. A simple phone call to JH would be all that is needed, no?

[ScreamingMeemie]

237. No...not with the Patient Privacy Act. Did you donate? I'm concerned

about your intense interest in this situation. :shrug:

[OzarkDem]

238. Sounds like a technicality

Until he's considered a patient, he can't sign the HIPAA waiver. Is there another doctor that he saw for his initial diagnosis who would be willing to verify his medical condition for PayPal?

[merh]

239. No - as has been explained to you several times before.

Johns Hopkins will not release information regarding their patients, because, if they do, they would be violating federal law. Andy is not in Johns Hopkins, he is being tested as an out patient in preparation for the surgery. He will be a patient, once surgery is scheduled.

Now how clearer can one make that for you?

[Jesus Saves]

242. Someone is 'testing' him

someone is treating him.

That person talks to paypal. Easy.

[OzarkDem]

245. Not easy

Your question has been answered.

I'll make you the same offer I've made to others - if you made a donation, please let me know how much it was and I'll refund your money. I'll need proof of your donation.

Otherwise, give it a rest.

[Jesus Saves]

248. Trying to find an answer to the situation

and everyone gets super defensive.

Wierd.

[OzarkDem]

251. It sounds as though

its getting taken care of. Don't worry about it.

Now about your donation - my offer still stands to replace your donation with mine. Do you want to take me up on it?

[bettyellen]

255. i hope he does, so he can lay his concerns to rest, and start reading

threads before posting repetitive, unrealistic nonsense and asks questions that have been answered a hundred times.

[merh]

247. Wrong, it is not the institution job to deal with paypal.

If it were that easy, we all would be thrilled.

Try another one.

[bettyellen]

252. have the guts to say what you are inferring........

or are you just completely naive yet totally opinionated about how shit works in the real world?

[merh]

265. You know, you just don't like rational answers.

I pray for your sake you never find yourself in a like situation. It isn't pleasant, and answers are not just a phone call away. Apparently you watch too much t.v.

[bettyellen]

244. hugs to you for your patience, merh dear.

i've just about had it with these same five questions. so coy, these people. so unnowledgable yet willing to judge.

:hug:

[merh]

257. What the idiots don't understand is, they are outing themselves.

Hmmmmm, I have over 1000 posts, yet I will ask moronic questions that have been responded to my over 50 people.

Just hang tight bettyellen, we will get through this! :pals:

Andy will get his surgery, the nasty tumor will be incinerated and the evil that permeates this board will find a similar end. :hug:

[bettyellen]

258. poor baby, his blood is boiling tonight.......

he has no idea if paypal will resolve this soon or not. idiot me rying to talk him into meditating, he could use a little escape right now from this.
and right you are.... way out they are, it's a schiavo fest over here. i guess real cures are for wussies, huh?

[merh]

281. We just need to keep sending out positive energy

and a steady stream of prayers.

Check your pmail when you have a minute.

:hug:

[bettyellen]

241. Stop posting and read, that question has been answer 10X on every thread.

[lala_rawraw]

246. You know... if all of my posts are to be deleted

Then why should I bother?

Look, there are "those who shall not be named" making allegations that I am and Will is somehow involved in a scam and we are trying to cover it up. Now what I find interesting is that every time I post information that I have verified, it gets deleted. WHHY?

Why was the press office number deleted?
Why was the indetity of troll deleted?
Why was the statement from Doc's office deleted?
Why were my questions deleted?

In other words... what I don't understand is the way this is being handled. Now I am trying to prove ONE WAY OR ANOTHER what the truth is. I am doing all of this not for Andy, but for the truth. I am now being slandered as somehow involved in this affair. Yet I cannot get a simple god damn response to my questions and facts that I post are deleted.

The real questions should not be if Andy is ill, because I no longer believe this is about Andy. The real questions are:

1). What is this about
2). Who is involved
3). Who is the target
4). And why is Andy at center?

Those are logical questions... now see if you can answer those questions without taking into account the Joy over at the place that cannot be named and at freeper land. It seems odd that so many people are happy that someone is dying and if they are not dying, then they are happy to smear everyone for trying to help a person they thought was dying... how is that ever cause for celebration?

[Jesus Saves]

250. I imagine

it was deleted cuz Skinner and the admins want to deal with it. They don't want a flood of DUers calling JH.

As far as the other information, well it's stuff that Skinner can't confirm. He wants to be clear about all this. It's his website. He wants to make sure that accurate information is posted and at this point that means he needs to independently verify it which I believe he is attempting to do.

[OzarkDem]

256. It sounds as though

the whole thing is valid, it can't be officially confirmed until the waiver process is complete.

Your continued insistence on unwarranted skepticism is in poor taste.

[Jesus Saves]

260. What is this?

The Jim Jones ranch?

[progmom]

262. No.

This is a group of compassionate people rallying around a friend. And they're sick of you shitting all over their friend. And they are wondering out loud what possible reason you could have for wanting to do that.

[bettyellen]

264. some people have no context for that......

sadly, it's too much of a stretch to imagine. :shrug:

[Jesus Saves]

269. "shitting all over their friend"

I asked one simple question. Why couldn't paypal talk to someone who is treating him about this? And everyone assumes that it's some kind of attack.

We are veering into Jim Jones terrain here folks.

For the record, I don't think it is fraud, cuz no one would be that stupid. People on here know Andy, they know where he lives, his pictures are all over this board.

This whole thing has become a puzzling mystery. I still can't believe there isn't someone in a medical position that could talk to paypal and get it fixed immediately. After all someone's life is on the line here. Doctors and medical professionals move quick in such a situation. Nor does payal want someone's death or decreased health on their hands. It has be fixed by tomorrow. It just has to be. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be. I hope it is.

[progmom]

272. If you had asked one simple question once, I'd cut you some slack

But I just finished reading this thread, and by the time I got to the Jim Jones comment, I was pretty irate. You seem to be feigning ignorance...repeatedly. What gives?

[Jesus Saves]

276. I made

one other comment on this thread in response to another DUer who also wondered why so little deviation from one line of thought is allowed.

[progmom]

292. just re-read the thread

I counted more than one comment. Same question presented several different ways.

Just seems like you're trying to stir things up. To what end, JS? Seriously? Like you said earlier - this is a man many on DU care deeply about - not just as an activist or an internet presence, but as a friend. Have some compassion and consideration ok? This isn't about marching in lockstep. This is about rallying together in a time of need. Surely you can see that.

[bettyellen]

293. not allowed? are you not posting? for someone who throws around

the jim jones cult thing, you're a bit oversensitive.
and saying you are not allowed is just a complete falsehood.
not liked for your attitude and feigned ignorance, noted for your pattern of general dislike of DUers, yeah. but, if you haven't noticed, you've been posting lots of negative stuff, and are still free to.

[elehhhhna]

342. "Willful Ignorance". We know where THAT cones from.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

274. Jim Jones terrain? Hardly.

[OzarkDem]

277. Patient Privacy Protection Act

Here's a link, why don't you read up on it.

http://www.hhs.gov/news/facts/privacy.html

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/privacy.html

[Jesus Saves]

284. Ok

so this may get resolved tomorrow.

"To promote the best quality care for patients, the rule does not restrict the ability of doctors, nurses and other providers to share information needed to treat their patients. In other situations, though, personal health information generally may not be used for purposes not related to health care, and covered entities may use or share only the minimum amount of protected information needed for a particular purpose. In addition, patients would have to sign a specific authorization before a covered entity could release their medical information to a life insurer, a bank, a marketing firm or another outside business for purposes not related to their health care."

Andy signs that authorization and JH or whoever is treating him now can at least talk to paypal and that would probably be sufficient proof for paypal to release the funds. That's they way I'm reading this.

[OzarkDem]

289. Yes, it may

tomorrow or in the next few days. Pretty sick that something so generous and compassionate is so offensive to some people.

But my guess would be that JH's first priority is going to be taking care of their patient. Its sad you don't feel the same way.

[ScreamingMeemie]

298. If you had prefaced your initial questions (and question marks) in this

manner, and then left it at posting the question once and receiving answers, I'd believe you. As it stands, most of what you have written is pretty disingenuous, no?

[OzarkDem]

263. Its compassion

Its showing concern and consideration for someone who is facing a traumatic illness and doing all we can to support them. You know, like Jesus would do.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

268. What interest is this of yours? You Call yourself a CHRISTIAN?

:wtf:

[ultraist]

271. Insulting DUers is a pattern with you

I'vs said this to you before and it's apparent here again tonight in this thread.

Jim Jones ranch? WTF? Not very "Christian" of you.

[Jesus Saves]

273. The post I responded to

I found insulting.

All I did was try to answer someone's questions about Skinner's actions. My post was reasonable.

[ultraist]

275. Calling Duers cult followers is "reasonable?"

You have very odd standards of what reasonable is.

[Jesus Saves]

278. I responded

to what I saw as an unreasonable post with the Jim Jones comment.

Now enough of this.

[ultraist]

280. Why are you so intent on casting doubt here?

Did you donate?

[ScreamingMeemie]

282. Saying that your continued interest in this is in poor taste is

unreasonable? How so? Your motive for latching on to only these types of threads is intriguing to me.

[bettyellen]

287. jesus saves and doubting thomas....?

what the hell ever happened to him?

[ScreamingMeemie]

288. I believe doubting Thomas fell on his knees and begged forgiveness...

Somehow I "doubt" that will happen here... :hi:

[MissB]

355. Enough of you.

You've asked over and over again, and insulted over and over again.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

369. After all, DUmmies are just a bunch of pimply teenagers posting Marxist

rhetoric from their parents' basement! :crazy:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

279. Just what I said. Not very 'Christian'

:eyes:

and it is a steenking pattern. After all, DU is a monolith that marches in lockstep. :crazy:

[bettyellen]

286. jesus gets quick results from paypal, and doctors do stay late and

make phonecalls for jesus.
so maybe the poster thinks that's how it works for us heathens, too. LOL!

[sparky_in_ma]

290. Hmmm....

but doesn't Moses invest?

[merh]

310. Noah does

in pairs, every investment in twos! Its a weird obsession and you should see him in topsiders! :rofl:

[sparky_in_ma]

312. Hi merh

I noticed bettyellen seemed wired (understandable) and tried to inject some levity.:hug:

[merh]

316. Thank you for that sparky_in_ma

When we have successfully helped our boy get that damned cancerous growth that has invaded his life removed, I will be happy to return to the good old days of KOEB banter. :pals:

I hear ya'll have a marvelous bar and I can use a cyber drunk and some bodice ripping! :silly:

Come to think of it, it could be that that evil cancer knows we are trying to have it removed and incinerated and it's spirit is invading our lovely community to prevent it! Oooowww, cancer spirits - someone find me some cyber chemo or radiation treatments. :scared:

[troubleinwinter]

319. Sparky! Long time no see!

[sparky_in_ma]

326. Hi trouble

:loveya:

[bettyellen]

311. sparky caught me being snarky........

so busted once again.
how's it going buddy?

[sparky_in_ma]

315. Hi bettyellen

I'm doing good, and wishing Andy all the best.:grouphug:

[merh]

299. No, jesus wouldn't get the treatment because he doesn't have

insurance and his step-dad was a simple carpenter. Seems to have a problem with not having the right color scheme, no blue blood, no blood cross and no silver spoon. :shrug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

301. Not to mention that part about being forsaken by his father.

;) :hi:

[merh]

306. Have I mentioned lately that I love

99% of the folks that live in our little DU community! :grouphug:

You guys can make me giggle and smile! :silly:

And I do feel the love! :pals:

[ScreamingMeemie]

340. You can mention it again and again!

I am amazed by the kind heartedness of my fellow DUers! We'll see Andy through this! :hug:

[EFerrari]

338. These goals aren't mutually exclusive.

This troll seemed very intent on attacking Andy over at dkos and here. But it also witnessed how united we became for a number of days. How we pooled resources -- not only money but networks, energy, creativity.

I imagine there are folks who found a united, focused and active DU pretty intimidating.

[Moosepoop]

339. As well they should!

:evilgrin:

[LandOLincoln]

354. I think you're right. I'm afraid the troll

may have a couple of friends.

However, given the kind of work Andy's been doing, I'm not sure it isn't also at least an oblique attack on Andy himself.

[Donailin]

243. I feel lucky to live in Maryland.

JH is indeed a great hospital, I know three people who recently had surgery there -- they are the tops in terms of latest procedures.

[seabeyond]

300. this would just be my guess, that many at hopkins is pretty aware

of andi by now and his unique situation of a board supporting him financially and emotionally. i know if i were working in accounting and had been inundated with calls from people concerned about andi's care i would be checking out the board that i know people are saying they are on. and i think it is pretty clear to these people that andi is a pretty good risk on getting the money with the massive support and the ability to raise so much in a mere two weeks.

i just have faith that this will work out. so many people, so little time, so many ways money coming thru, snafu's are expected.

what has popped into mind and who i am concerned with now is flyarm? i believe. i believe she was the one to use connections to get andi in. i wonder how she is doing and any repercussions came her way. i hope she is doing all right

[EFerrari]

322. Diva was on a flight to Paris Sunday.

I expect she is wowing them very ably by now. :)

[NancyG]

324. Post-op donations

Is it still possible to donate via Amazon? I personally don't care for Pay Pal. Could you repeat the instructions?

I'd like to see the post-op donations rolling in. And get the energy moving in that direction.

Nancy

[EFerrari]

325. All the accounts still work . Here's Amazon:

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/P2TRHRVBGX9KOX/102-6873839-9047353


Andy's donations have not stopped coming in. And as the surgery money was an estimate, I know more will be needed postop. Thanks for bringing this up.

[Lisa0825]

344. Due to the PayPal issues, I will be mailing my next donation...

I want to be sure it's more easily available to him.

[EFerrari]

349. Thank you, Lisa.I have a bit of good news this morning.

Andy's surgery is back on the schedule! For later this month, but they want him to stay in Baltimore just in case there is a cancellation earlier than that. There are also some very good test results he shared with me and he sounded very relieved. :hi:

[mogster]

351. Sounds good! :-)

:-)

[Lisa0825]

352. That's great!!! Thanks for the update!: ) (nt)

[Catherine Vincent]

358. That's good news Beth.

And I hope there's a cancellation, I know he's nervous and can't wait to get it over with.

[Spazito]

361. That is wonderful!

Thank you SO much, sfexpat2000 for keeping us updated. Andy is very much in my thoughts and hearing good news helps alot!

[wakeme2008]

345. FYI My donation (2nd) just cleared PayPal

and is in Andy's account. I donated on the 8th...

Does not look like any problems with money going into Andy's account.

[mogster]

350. How do you see that?

I'm new to paypal, and thought the payments was instantly drawn from my account.

Or, OK - with a couple of hours delay ;-)
Is it where it says status (=complete)?

[Lisa0825]

353. I get an email receipt when my payment clears.

Mine is attached to my checking acct, so it takes a few days to clear. My understanding is that there is no problem with our donations getting to Andy's acct. The problem is with him being able to access the funds.

[LandOLincoln]

359. I've come late to this, and since I've never had a problem with

PayPal and would prefer to donate that way, could somebody provide that link?

Apologies in advance if this has been asked and answered a gazillion times. It's early and I haven't had enough coffee...

[EFerrari]

362. Andy's account there is

[email protected] (there is an underscore between first and last name.)

If you make a contribution, please pm me with the amount.

thanks
Beth

[LandOLincoln]

366. Thanks! I will be donating next week

and will be happy to PM you with the particulars.

[Skinner]

370. Now that everyone has had the opportunity to read my update

I am locking this thread.