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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:42 PM
Original message
East Waynesville Baptist Church in NC expells all Dem members
My Mom just emailed me the news. There's no link yet.

She said WLOS tv just broke in to report that the East Waynesville Baptist church has officially excommunicated all its democratic members.

She said that before the election, the preacher told the congregation from the pulpit that if they didn't vote for * they had to come to the altar to confess their sins and repent. they could'nt be members. (My Mom doesn't attend that church--she's United Methodist, but I know of lots who do attend).

From Mom's email: "One of the local women who got excommunicated said on TV that it was like a cult. Another man who got excommunicated said that the rest of the congregation stood up and applauded as the Democrats were told to leave."

Okay, I'm officially freaked out.

libnnc
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jesus on a trailer hitch!
This sort of shit has to backfire on them. It has to. No one reasonable who considers him/herself a republican can tolerate this.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. A visual aid
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
59. Your visual aid worked at first but now it is the dreaded blank red X
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
336. Jesus being towed by an SUV now that's a little Irony don't you think?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
211. Nominated for Homepage!!!!!
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dissent1977 Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
394. Time for them to lose their tax-exempt status.
EOM
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #394
438. You've got that right!
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dissent1977 Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
399. Why don't some DU members attend their congregation...
I don't live anywhere near NC so I could never make it, but I would love to see a story about this church getting flooded with liberals dressed in anti-Bush gear.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #399
442. ITS GONNA KILL ME BUT I'LL GO TO CHURCH THERE SUNDAY....WITH
my BUCK BUSH IN THE 21ST CENTURY T-SHIRT
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #442
455. Do you want to go with me?
We've met several times before, why don't we go together? IM me if you are interested.
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #455
478. Godspeed to both of you.
Methinks that pastor has abandoned the Scriptures entirely and signed on to the Gospel According to Mammon.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #478
497. I'd go too, but can't. I live in the enlightened state of...
Edited on Fri May-06-05 02:21 PM by KansDem
KANSAS!
(We have our own problems... :D)

Good luck to all DUer's who attend. If it's a "debate" they want, let them have it!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #442
502. Sue to have their 501(c) 3 status revoked.
This is a clear-cut case of political activism in church.

We have to do something about these 'Activist Churches'.
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dissent1977 Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
404. Here is their phone number
828-456-6841

Thought some of you might like to give them a call.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #404
439. Oh my ...
busy signal!
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #404
513. what is the full name of the pastor?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Holy War has begun. And we're the enemy.
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:55 PM
Original message
Having just watched Hotel Rwanda last weekend
Yeah. I'm a wee bit freaked. Setting one's countryman against one another is apparently not that hard.

Hate radio is already here.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
569. No Bluebear: They have become their OWN WORSE ENEMIES.
Edited on Fri May-06-05 10:02 PM by AuntiBush
No Bluebear. We're not the enemies... they are and to themselves even moreso.

We're on the correct side, don't worry about that.

I gotta do the headbang thing again before I scream.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Read your history.
Look up Hugenots and what happened to the French economy when it expelled them. It wasn't good. Bigotry is its own punishment.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
398. Hell, look at the history of Catholics vs. Protestants in England
:scared:
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NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. does the IRS know about this?
Doesn't this cross the line that otherwise protects a church from tax liability?
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
98. I would surely think so. nt
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
285. I hope so
No way these hypocritical shits deserve tax-exempt status for nakedly political stunts like that.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
335. Absolutely.
That is so far over the line, it sounds like it couldn't possibly be true. :wow:

Welcome to the Theocratic States of America. Please leave your freedoms at the door.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
432. Cross it?
Completely erased it is more apt. This is it, this is the final straw. These religious bigots have finally shown themselves for what they are, a political movement.
I want the GOP leadership to condemn this immediately. All of them. bush, Cheney, Rove, Frist, DeLay, Santorum, the entire lot. If they refuse to do this, they are condoning this action and should be removed from office immediately.
There is STILL a line between church and state, as of now. If they want to remove it, declare so and let's see what the American people think of it.
They have just marginalized themselves to a point where they'll NEVER be taken seriously again. Good. Fucking assholes! It serves them right for lying down with this scum in the first place. :grr:
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oneold1-4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #432
580.  Should never have had tax exempt! Take property!
These churches(thousands) are political in sooooo many ways. They preach and even put up political signs on the church properties that are all exempt from ALL TAXATION including money or income derived from or upon them! Some of these church properties have changed hands many times but never paid a cent of taxes even on real property profits! There should be complete loss of all properties for all back taxes! It happens all the time to individuals!
If they do nothing, (and we know they won't), we might as well join them. They would come down on all with an immediate tax loss of billions. Now I just have to think up a name for "my" church!
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
444. i'M GONNA MAKE SURE THEY DO AS I WORK IN WAYNESVILLE, NC
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Would they have expelled William Jennings Bryan?
One of our best Dem presidential candidates ever was also a confirmed fundamentalist; he later took Tennessee's side in the Scopes "monkey trial".

Hypocrites. :banghead:
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. Before We Are Through - It Will Be Us Against Them
Better start sharpening those crosses for spear tips!
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
339. Before we are through?
It already is us against them. The Chimperor "I'm a uniter, not a divider" Bushnit decreed it.

Who's your Antichrist now, huh, huh? Good boy!
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Who would Jesus excommunicate?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
124. Jimmy Swaggart
Oral Roberts
Jim Jones
Jim Baker
Fred Phelps
Bob Jones
Jerry Falwell
etc
etc
etc

Hope that answers your question :)
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
224. Exclusive Christianity never ends up being nice
nt

Christ was all about Inclusiveness. So this congregation is not really Christian anyway. Hope all those republicans left in the congregation realize they now have to give MORE $$ to keep the congregation going.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #224
498. Excellent term, sort of like "Country Club Christianity..."
Where the barbed wire separates the chosen from all others...
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. What the hell?
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, I just remembered, WLOS-TV is a Sinclair affiliate
what a surprise. :sarcasm:

I suppose these tinpot theocrats will get some sort of plaque from the station or something. :puke:
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Yellow_Dog Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
291. WLOS & Mark Hyman
Imagine watching this story on the same station that carries Mark Hyman's Bush propaganda segment on every news cast.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #291
486. Does Media Matters monitor them? Hyman is so despicable. My
CBS is a Sinclair station and if I turn over too quickly after The Daily Show to see Letterman, I see that asshole. I just can't believe the lies and RW slander propaganda he spews every night during the local news.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
10. I just pulled up their website to look for a link - they're a Sinclair
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:03 PM by Pirate Smile
station.

:eyes:

edit to add - with a Desperate Housewives ad at the top of their Home page.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is the future of America.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 06:48 PM by bowens43
A theocracy every bit as dangerous, repulsive and oppressive as the Taliban. Make no mistake, the fundamentalists want to control everything that you do, think and say. They will NOT allow deviation from what they consider to to be the norm. These ignorant , freedom hating, mindless marching morons are far more dangerous then Islamic fundamentalists.

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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
13. church
have them make their own church, so they can ex communicate them!!!
revenge is fun!!


Church..........a waste of a good Sunday
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. It seems to fit right in with Cheney's calling Dems "the other faith".
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:08 PM by Pirate Smile


Cheney's New Meme?
by Coldblue Steele
Wed May 4th, 2005 at 12:52:25 PDT

Darth was down in Georgia the other day for a Republican-only town hall on, you guessed it, "Strengthening Social Security". Most of what he said is nothing more than the misleading drivel we've heard time and again, but there was one interesting statement

"If we don't do anything at all, if we just stay where a lot of people have said we ought to stay -- there are a number of members of Congress OF THE OTHER FAITH who have said that we don't need to do anything -- well, if you don't do anything, the net result will be, for somebody today, say, in their 30s, by the time they get to retirement age, their benefit levels are going to be cut some 26 percent or 27 percent. Automatic, that's what will happen with today's existing law."

The other faith?

But wait. It gets picked up and repeated.

Unlike Bush, Cheney will actually take questions from the audience, which isn't really all that bold since it's packed with wingnuts. So here are two questions submitted

Q Mr. Vice President, thank you for coming to Georgia, and thank you and the President for your leadership in the war on terror. Millions of Americans appreciate that.
My question is, I watched the press conference the other night with the President, and it seems like when the two of you come up with serious ideas that those from THE OTHER FAITH, in the other party, all they do is demonize and, in many cases, just lie and try to divide the older generation, our grandparents from us, those in our 30s.

That's one. Here's another

Q Good morning, Vice President Cheney. I'd like to ask a question. This morning you've really delineated very well a lot of points in the program and what you and the President want to do. Could you delineate for us, because I think we have a little bit of an easy audience this morning on convincing us of this program -- could you delineate out a few other points from the other side, or THE OTHER FAITH, differences maybe in what you're saying this morning, and maybe what they're saying or not saying?

Are we seeing a pattern developing here?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/4/155225/5465

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
157. Hey Pirate.. would consider posting your reply here as its own thread?
I think the whole "OTHER faith" thing needs to be highlighted BIG time on DU right now. They're up to something.. and it looks planned. If I tie lots of threads like these from the past week together, it's looking like they're trying to declare a religious war on those that disagree with them. God help us!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #157
197. I already posted it as its own thread - click on the DU link above
Here it is again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I posted it Wednesday night but I know it is easy to miss things if you aren't on DU at the "right" time.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
188. Yes, I agree with PBD-this deserves it's own thread.
I almost didn't look at this one because it's so lengthy, I would have missed it and THIS is important.
Those questioners were plants-I'm sure of it. We just witnessed the birth of a reichwing talking point.

This needs to get out there.
Thanks for posting it.
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ornotna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
295. I'm not sure I understand this post
Could you delineate. Jeez, somebody learned a new word. :eyes: :evilgrin:
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babywatson Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-09-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
607. Southern Baptist are definitely weird.
But I wish people didn't categorize ALL southerners as being die-hard Bushies. I live in a red state, grew up in a red state, and believe me, it's hard to understand how people can come from the same background and NOT get that George Bush is a phony baloney. They just seem to shut off if you even try to discuss it, which is why I try to keep my opinions to myself around here. I did have to put up my Kerry sign before the election, though. I couldn't stand seeing all the Bush signs everywhere.
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. call them 828 456 6841
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. I searched for their number too. LOL!
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. we should call them and ask them to release their tax files as we
want to see how much "faith based initiative" money this church is getting. Basically we want to know what it takes to buy a church.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. EXACTLY! IRS should be alerted, too! --- As soon as there is confirmed
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:06 PM by KaliTracy
report!

edited: confirmation
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
71. oops, I took your edit confirmation as being that the report was now
confirmed, so I already called. Now I see you were just finishing your title sentence.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
127. sorry.... but it looks like it might have been confirmed below? I just got
back to this thread.... (I'll be more careful next time!) :blush:
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
261. That's an excellent idea!
HUD prohibits discrimination in the provision of services by any of its grantees; so if they have a HUD grant (although somehow I doubt this particular congregation is helping out any homeless people), they could be in big trouble.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
49. I did! Got an answering machine and had fun!
Call if you have the dime!

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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. what did u say?
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:46 PM by burn the bush
I'm going to call. What should I say? Should I ask about their tax exempt status for a political institution?

on edit: I called them and asked what they intended to do now about their tax exempt status now that they have publically declared that they are a political organization. I left my number for them to call me back.

on edit: I called back and told them that it was me again and that I was suppose to ask them, but forgot if they would mind if we did a foia request on their income taxes to see how money they are getting from the govt via faith base initiatives for a republican only facility. Please call me as soon as you can so I can get this report out.

thank you so much.
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #54
70. I did a Little old man voice and wished them that God would have mercy on
their souls for doing what they did... I rambled on and ended by telling themselves to go fuck themselves.

Guess I should have recorded it.

:evilgrin:

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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #54
309. I listened to their recorded message that ended......
with the phrase that they would, "get ahold of you as soon as possible". I left a message that said, "You won't get ahold of me cause I'm going heaven. God is a Democratic and you're all going to hell!

Silly, I know, but I thought that was the kind of immature message that a religious zealot would leave!
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ElaineinIN Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #54
492. You might not need to do a foia request
By law, tax exempt organizations are required to hand out their Forms 990 (annual financial information return in lieu of income tax return0 and 1023 (application for exempt status) to anyone who asks--although you may have to pay for copies. However, churches are exempt from having to fie the 990 and 1023--so do voluntarily to get the benefit of having it on file, but many don't. . You might want to check your state, however, as many states have similar filing requirements and might not have a church exemption.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
143. Nevermind, thought it was for the station
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:53 PM by havocmom
:shrug:
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. Remember it wasn't all that long ago that they were keeping
whites and blacks in separate everythings, schools, restaurants, bathrooms, etc. This isn't a stretch for them.
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. The church of Pharisees is now officially in session!
Then revoke any tax provisions that "church" steals! For the Love of God, who are they to sit in judgment of choices in a choice of government!

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. just don't drink the kool-aid at the meet-and-greet after
wow - this is the second Jim Jones reference I have made tonight. Things must be getting ugly out there!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. What is the pastor's name? I think I'll give him a call.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
103. I think I heard them say "Chan Chandler"
That's what it sounded like.

They played an excerpt from a recent sermon. The guy is a nut. He sounds like a David Koresh wannabe to me.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. Them Fristians sure do know their bible, don't they...... (nt)
www.missionnotaccomplished.us -- STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND ALL THE OTHER WAR CRIMINALS
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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. Er, you sure?
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
23. The RW-fundies are not interested in anything but their own ...
frenzied perversions of Christianity and sanity...
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
193. "frenzied perversions of Christianity and sanity"
That about sums it up.


I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
234. "frenzied perversions of Christianity and sanity..."
Right on.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm hoping the Asheville Citizen Times will pick this up
It's not on their website yet. Maybe tomorrow. This church is just up the road from my Aunt and Uncle's home. This is so bizarre. It's not like a snake-handling/stricnyne drinking church. It's pretty mainline Southern Baptist from what I remember as a kid. I guess mainline Southern Baptists have changed.

Lets shame the hell out of these fools. I live in Winston-Salem now but dammit, I want my hometown back.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
63. Keyword SOUTHERN
The Southern Baptists are insane. I grew up Southern Baptist. This shit is typical. Most of them are ignorant. Not all...but a lot of them are.
Duckie
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #63
344. Hi Duckie
from another person raised in the Southern Baptist Cult, I wholeheartedly agree. They compete to be the stupidest and the nuttiest. They succeed pretty well on both.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #63
401. Another recovering Southern Baptist here!
They are just plain nuts at best, and downright dangerous at worst. I'm still a Baptist, because I am proud of the Baptist heritage of church/state separation, religious freedom and tolerance, believer's priesthood, and other hallmarks that our Baptist ancestors help to champion. The same principles that today's Southern Baptists are thumbing their nose at. They disgust me for stealing and redifining the term; they have no right calling themselves Baptist!

:banghead:
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #401
402. I'm now Catholic...
And I like the progressive, feed the poor attitude of this church. I actually heard a baptist minister say something awful about homeless people once, something about how they put themselves there and are probably being punished for something. Made me wanna barf.
Duckie
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #402
421. Isn't that what Jesus said about the poor
that it's their own fault and they're being punished?
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #421
484. Not in my bible.
Edited on Fri May-06-05 01:23 PM by YellowRubberDuckie
:shrug: I don't know which one you've been reading.
Duckie
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #484
514. I'd rather give DUers the benefit of the doubt rather then
use that drippy sarcasm thing. I'm insulted when I see that - as if the poster is saying "just in case you don't get that I'm being sarcastic".

Here's something I've discovered on DU - when a DUer says something like "Jesus didn't like the poor either", they are usually being sarcastic.
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Democracy White Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #514
542. It is difficult
for some people who read online to catch the tone of what a poster is saying (like me), so that is why there are the emoticons. The Internet is hard to convey the tone and emotion of one as it is written language and not an actual conversation. Just trying to point this out and I am sorry if you are insulted.

Dee
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #514
593. As soon as I put it, I changed it. Sorry.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #402
510. Love your sig line!
I agree; if anyone has a good sense of humor, it is God. And if anyone wants to disagree with that, just have them study the platypus for a while.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #401
427. Yes, apparently, the hard right conservative Baptists,
like Pressler and Paige, began an intense effort to take over the SBC, veering toward the hard right. It began around 1979.

I have an article somewhere (I research the Religious Wrong) that quotes these far right conservative Baptist Christians bragging about how they took over and eliminated moderates in leadership positions.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #427
508. 1979, Paige Patterson & Paul Pressler
met at the Cafe du Monde restaurant in New Orleans and first plotted to takeover the Southern Baptist Convention and reshape it to their liking. By using "inerrancy" as a wedge issue, they would frighten the typical trusting convention goers to vote their hand selected candidate as president each year, so that he, in turn, could nominate acceptable people to trustee boards of the various agencies. Took about 10 years to purge the boards of all who didn't meet their approval, then a few more years to push out any others who objected.
(I was a student at the seminary in Louisville in the late '80s when they gained complete control of that trustee board and started having non-conservative professors dismissed under false accusations of heresy.)

Lots of good resources about that, and it is worth studying because there are some intriguing parallels in that takeover and the shift in the national political landscape over the same period.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #508
529. Thanks.
More to add to my info. I did have some of the info.

I still cannot get into the heads of someone who would want to swing things this way.

Despite having grown up in Orange County, Calif. with John-Birchers and relgiious wrongies, I still cannot understand them. Why not just live isolated, repressed lives and leave the rest of us out of it? But fundies just can't do it.
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susanr516 Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #401
549. Amen to that
I am also recovering Southern Baptist, left in January 2001. The Christian Reconstructionist wing now in control of the SBC has made a mockery of the old Baptist concepts of soul competency and the priesthood of the believer. IMO, the SBC has become some type of religious-political cult.
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ktowntennesseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #549
556. Welcome to DU, susanr516!
This is a really diverse gathering place, but I love it because there is room for so much diversity. And I've found a fair number of Baptists and former Baptists, too, and others who agree with us that the SBC has drastically changed. I share your opinion that it is a religious-political cult; in fact that may be an understatement.
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oneold1-4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #549
581. Welcome Susan-and now
For all who know and understand that these people need another source for sharing a better faith, reach out and help them to find some of the truly diversified and honest places of worship!
Those who can lead in the footprints God made, are seldom far from the right path! All of life is a path to love and its own rewards.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
423. I've got bad news ...
I've been researching the Religious Right for the last year or so, and the Southern Baptist Convention is the key to the Religious Right push. Richard Land stated that now the pREsident calls him - unlike Reagan, Bush 41, and Clinton. Apparently, he is the pResident's key 'spiritual' advisor (Land is the Ethics and Liberty and Morality Commissioner, or something like that).

Apparently, after Goldwater's defeat in 1964, Paul Weyrich, the architect of the Conservative Noise Machine (and the guy who wants to drown government in a bathtub) targeted fundamentalist (Southern Baptist) and charismatic (Assembly of God churches or Pentecostal, some Calvary) congregations and administrative church orgs.

It all ties together.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #24
450. i'LL SEND IT TO Citizen Times: I live there & correspond w/ ltrtoeditor gu
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. Doesn't this action void their tax exempt status?
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. It certainly should!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. I agree
This is over the line. Who do you go to to complain about that? This is wrong on so many levels. Doesn't this go against one of the first ammendment rights?
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. I don't know. I am thinking you could report it as tax fruad
Since they are apparently a PAC that is disguised as a chruch to take advantage of the tax-free status.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #45
384. I was thinking
we should mail the church some IRS forms. To help them get started on their 2005 tax year declarations. :)
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #384
456. LOL
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #456
506. I posted this article
on another board with the thread title "Baptist Church Wants to Pay Taxes"

hee hee The RWs on that board are gonna shit when they read that.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #506
509. Ha ha!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #509
523. The first idiot freeper just replied
he thinks the preacher is doing a good thing, ridding his church of 'evil'. LOL! What an idiot. Maybe he is planning on making a donation to help this church with its tax bill.
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. One way of contating the IRS
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #46
354. DONE
It was fun.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #354
451. DONE: and here's the letter:
May 6, 2005

Hello:

I work in Waynesville, NC. I have many clients there.

That being an aside, I am very concerned about a local church, East Waynesville Baptist Church, who reportedly has abused their tax exempt status by advising members who were presumably not going to vote for George Bush for the 2004 General Election to please leave the congregation.

If this is true, I would like to see the IRS follow the matter up and hopefully revoke their tax exempt status.

Thank you for getting back to me on this matter.

Sincerely,
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Joebert Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #451
588. My post to the IRS
Hello,

I am concered that a local organization, that is tax-exempt, is violating that status.

Where can I read up on exactly what makes an organization eligible for tax exempt status, and what actions can cause it to be revoked?

I'd also like to know how I would proceed with a claim if I compile proof that this is happening.

Basically, if an organization is able to get a benefit by being tax-exempt, yet don't abide by the rules to be tax-exempt, they are non-competitive.


---

Hopefully it's vague enough that they point to the resources available, and don't catch that I'm looking at a church.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:39 AM
Original message
To Report Federal Tax Fraud....
which this obviously is....

To Report Suspected Tax Fraud , Call 1-800-829-0433. If you have information about an individual or company you suspect is not complying with the tax law, report this activity.
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SalmonChantedEvening Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. This is so sad.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 06:57 PM by SalmonChantedEvening
One nation Divided, Thanks to W, with liberty and justice for ONLY THOSE ON THE LIST I HOLD IN MY HAND

:grr:
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. Getting a little out of control, I would say
Did they get faith based welfare money from the guvernment, I wonder and I wonder if they are up for more.
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. The church has no web site
This is what I googled:

East Waynesville Baptist Church
175 Woodland Dr
Waynesville, NC 28786

Denomination: Baptist

Phone: (828) 456-6841 Fax: n/a

Church Web Site: n/a

Average Attendance: n/a

Driving Directions : n/a

Major Cross Streets: n/a

Email Contacts:

Local Ministries:

Really open, aren't they?


Keiths Barbeque Central



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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
443. I like your Keith's Barbeque Central site....
have you ever entered any competitions? I know they're all over the south and I attended my share when I used to live down there. I've got you bookmarked! :hi:
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #443
491. Never competed, just judged
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
522. It has no web site, but I now own the domain name...
thanks for the tip. www.eastwaynesvillebaptistchurch.com is now all mine. I think I'll just sit on it a while, maybe put it up on Ebay if this story takes off, as it should.

BTW, LOVE my barbeque! I' much rather be a judge than compete as well. No work, and you get to taste the fruits of everyone else's labor. Sweeeeeeeet! ;)
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #522
574. Could have some fun with that
Congrats on the new domain name. If I'd thought of it I'd have set up something similar to Betty Bowers or Landover Baptist. Probably make it a DU project to keep the creativity going.



Keiths Barbeque Central
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. Judge not, least ye be judged too.
Go for it E.W. Bad Ass Church.
FRacture the republican party.


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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
33. And they have the audacity to say that Dems are out of touch with faith
Well no fucking wonder. They are all excommunicated!

They didn't reject the church, the church rejected them!

Of course, if it were me, I would have told that pastor to go to hell long ago.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
129. dupe
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:47 PM by proud2Blib
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
139. Hey Comer
We have a preacher as crazy as this right here in our backyard

http://www.ffc.org/
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #139
288. Why does that site make me think of Landover Baptist?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #288
360. That guy is so baaaad
The Pitch gives him lots of good 'bad press'. He made quite a name for himself when he endorsed Kris Kobach - and worked on his campaign!!
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
317. "The church rejected them." Exactly. Let's hope He really does have
infinite patience--otherwise E. Waynesville Baptist is in it BIG.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
34. Take this, if true, and study it with this little gem from Dickie the C--
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:02 PM by blondeatlast
Cheney's New Meme? "the other faith" when describing Democrats!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

There are NO political accidents, America. None.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
430. Yep, this religious reich researcher picked that up.
Thanks. I took notes about 'the other faith' stuff.

Thanks again for the post and the info.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. This is disgusting
I hate these people! Someone called in Malloy's show earlier this week and told how in Ohio the republicans gave churches (mostly black) a lot of money in turn for votes. Could this be happening here or what?
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. maybe that's what Rove meant when he said there was an 'invisible
grassroots movement' when he was here in Ohio this week....
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #38
601. It is not invisible at all in Ohio- It is called the Restoration Project
Edited on Sun May-08-05 06:12 AM by mtnester
and we need to be all over this..do some googling, or you can looky below:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/DominionistsTry...

http://www.worldprayer.us/bible/christian/104089-Christ...


This NC incident will become part of it, trust me, if it is not allready...the Restoration Project is the rally cry for the fundie nation, and it all originated right here in my county in Ohio...Fairfield...I know every person involved...Rod Parsley, Russell Johnson, Sheriff Phalen....scary people who rabidly believe Democrats are sinners of the worst sort and should be purged from society (if they could get away with it clean)

There are good people in the Fairfield Christian Church who are quietly leaving (in droves) over their own fears. But, they are also replacing them rapidly with fervered believers.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
37. You will goose step like us or you won't goose step at all!!
When do we get the big "D's" to sew onto our clothes??

This is fucking unbelievable. If I was in that church, I think I might have been tempted to go up to the altar to confess my sins, then taking a piss all over it.

I am sick of the "oh so righteous" condemning the rest of us. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on...
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
457. It won't be a D - most D's aren't registered as D's
It will be NR - Not Republican that will be tatooed on our foreheads.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
39. wow...just wow
I come from an area in North Texas that is rife with fundies. You are right, the Southern Baptist church was formed during the time of segregation to keep blacks from attending church with whites, so expelling Democrats is not a stretch for them. These are the heart and soul of what is Bush, I promise you. Wonder what the blue dog types who attended that church felt as their brothers in ideology just expelled them?

I'm sure the liberals of the church were gone long before this horrendous display of fascism. Well, most of 'em.

The comments on this thread that this is the beginning of a holy war are probably not far off of the mark. The more Bush goes down in the polls, the freakier these people are going to get. They control the government, now, and there is nothing that will stop them from advancing their agenda on the people...whether you like it or not. The more we resist BushCo, the more fascist they get, until the oppression is so great, the people wake up.

Finally.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
252. Actually, the Southern Baptists were formed in the antebellum period...
as a break away sect when the Baptist church in America joined the abolitionist movement. These hateful bigots have a very looooooooong history of intolerance.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. Somehow, I'm not as disturbed as I should be.
Outrage fatigue, perhaps?
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
67. I'm not outraged at all--I'm delighted!
They have finally shot themselves in the foot...and let's see them trying to blame THIS one on Bill Clinton! That should be fun to watch...
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
41. Link to the TV station--no mention yet.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:12 PM by blondeatlast
Let's not get too alarmist here.

This kindf of thing has happened on DU before.

Just a heads up, y'all.

Edit: link--I had a blonde moment:

http://www.wlos.com/
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Is there
a direct link to this particular story?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Nowhere, not a one.
Googled the story every which way I could think of, too.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. I'm thinking if it was a "breaking news" thing that it will be on the
late evening edition. Mom sent me the email at 6:25 est.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #48
385. It's on their site now. Here it is
http://www.wlos.com /

Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.


East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.


(posted at 7:30am, 5/6/05)
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
108. This is the real thing
I saw the news report a little after 6:00. They interviewed a bunch of the excommunicated people who, on average, had attended that church for over 30 years.

It's not a joke. That preacher is dead serious, and I can verify that a witness said that the congregants stood and applauded as the Democratic church members left the building.

The theocracy has begun in earnest, folks.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. That is really unbelievable!
Denying someone who wants to be at that church because of their political views is complete and utter B.S. This is really a blessing in disguise because who would want to hear a sermon from such a hypocrite? If that is what he believes Jesus would want him to do, then he isn't worth the time of day. This is what gives religion and Christians a bad name. People disguising themselves as Christians and spewing nothing but hate. These people are better off getting out of there while the getting is good. What a friggin' jerk-off. :mad: :cry: :banghead: :evilfrown:
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
44. It's not like a cult: it is a cult
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cssmall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. March of the Pigs
Onward Christian soliders, marching off to victory. Perhaps it should read: March fuckers, walk! Kill them liberals and get rid of 'em all." Tell this to one of those christians: Jesus Christ was a liberal thinker and philosopher. The meek shall inherit the earth? I mean come on. But, then again it's easy to forget... I guess
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
50. That is soooo fkn creepy.
These people are nuts.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
52. with all of the posibilities of at least ONE person in this Administration
getting in trouble for Lying (WMD, and "government" ads that are more like propoganda for starters), and for cheating (election, for starters), not to mention other atrocities in the last 4 and 1/2 years, I hope that these righteous people profession alliance for * and Jesus (as if they were the same thing) get a Big Reality Check...


And once it is confirmed -- be sure to BLAST it to your local and national news sources and ask simple questions -- such as

"Whatever happenen to Separation Between Church and State?"

"Since when is Intolerance a part of Faith?"

"Are Americans in Our Own Religious War?"

"I thought the 1st Amendment allowed us Freedom to Religion and to Free Speech?"


.....or variations of such!
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
53. This should get MAJOR media coverage!
awww....who am I kidding?

Fuckheads like this continue to fly under the media radar. It's almost as if the media isn't quite as "liberal" as we've been led to believe.

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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #53
289. BLAST this information TO the media! Don't forget NPR, too! They may
still ignore it -- but not because they weren't informed!
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #53
306. Well
Edited on Fri May-06-05 02:24 AM by Tux
I did get some info from DailyKos (now going there for fun) plus the phone number of the church and local TV station then I submited a story idea to Democracy Now!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :popcorn: :woohoo: :bounce:

Edit: And I submited the story to Slashdot. We have allies in the geek community.
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SangamonTaylor Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
55. there goes that tax exempt status n/t
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
56. Calling All Asheville Area DUers!!
Watch WLOS news tonight to see if they say anything more about this. Their website is notoriously crappy and this might not get posted until tomorrow. I'm still looking for confirmation myself.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #56
81. my girlfriend confirms the story
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:53 PM by SheepyMcSheepster
she was waching WLOS between 5 and 6 and heard this story about the church kicking democrats out, she heard it in passing and has no real details.

i will try to watch the 11pm news.

on edit: i am in asheville :silly:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #81
92. Thanks--please keep us informed. Libnnc called the station
and they said they will cover it on the late edition.

This can't be real--why would they risk tax-exempt status?
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #92
452. Faith based charities...
they're probably getting more from the bush theocracy than they'd lose paying taxes. Besides, who's going to investigate them? The bush administration? :shrug: They're at the point now where they think they're bullet proof. They've got god's chosen one in the White House and think that no one can touch them. Guess what? THEY'RE GOING TO BE TOUCHED! :grr:
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #452
460. Well, I'd hate to think that some far-left nutjob might try to
burn their church to the ground.... Well, maybe I don't hate it, but it does disturb me a little.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #81
95. Thanks for the confirmation.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #56
110. I'll be checking in as soon as I hear anything. n/t
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #56
454. we're here baby: and ready to step up to the plate:
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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
57. Tax the Fuckers---they are no longer a religion. n/t
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lady lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
250. Exactly!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
60. ummmmmm.....sounds more like a political orgnaization than a chruch
Maybe someone should let the IRS in on the information.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
61. Is there some way they can lose their tax-exempt status?
That sounds a little bit over the top to say the least.
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
62. The church should change its name then
First Church of Fristianity, Latter-Day Freeptards. :crazy:

The Dems that got kicked out should go look up the nearest UU congregation...I'm sure they'd be welcome.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
64. Be the first to comment on this church
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:34 PM by paineinthearse
http://www.usachurch.com/north_carolina/asheville/Bapti...

This website invites you to add comments about this church:

East Waynesville Baptist Church : Baptist
175 Woodland Dr Waynesville, NC (North Carolina)
Phone: (828) 456-6841

Be the first to comment on this Waynesville Baptist church - http://www.usachurch.com/north_carolina/asheville/churc...




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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Please--let's just get confirmation of this first.
Sorry, I'm just skeptical.

This means they lose their tax-exempt status--I just have very serious doubts they would risk that.

Let's just PLEASE not overreact; that plays right into the opposition's hands.

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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. You're right. Wait for confirmation - nothing on WLOS yet.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:40 PM by paineinthearse
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
466. WE HAVE CONFIRMATION:

http://www.wlos.com /

Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.


East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.


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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. Agreed. I should have confirmed this before posting
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #65
114. Confirmed
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:23 PM by Spiffarino
My wife and I both saw the news report at 6:05pm on WLOS. They interviewed several elderly church members. All confirmed that the preacher has been after them to support Bush since October and that if they voted for John Kerry they supported abortion and gay marriage.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #114
341. This is why Chimp won the election, preacher nut jobs like this one.
Think of all the other Churches that scared the elderly into voting this way.
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impeachthescoundrel Donating Member (395 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #341
517. I hate to sound like a broken record
But * didn't win anything. He stole it.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #64
181. There's a comment there now
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #181
274. Someone's purging the comments!
The original one is gone now!
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InfoMinister Donating Member (546 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #64
231. oops
Edited on Thu May-05-05 10:35 PM by InfoMinister
oops
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
461. Good comment by Chan Chandler
We have become quite properly intolerant and restrictive. We kicked out them dang librul demonrats and took back our church for Gawd Almighty! We have voluntarily relinquished our tax exempt status and have become an openly political orginazation. Thus we pray in the name of the almighty George W Bush, Amen
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
69. What would be the newspaper for this area?
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:46 PM by Pirate Smile
edit to add - link to listing of North Carolina newspapers

http://www.ncpress.com/ncnewspapersonline.html
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Asheville Citizen-Times
www.citizentimes.com

and the local fish wrap www.themountaineer.com
but its a garbage non-daily and it won't have anything until either tomorrow or the weekend.

Who here on DU knows anyone DUers in Asheville?

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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. isn't Asheville a big new ager town? n/t
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #77
112. It's pretty bohemian
I know tons of Pagans down there. Very artist-friendly area, too.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. Asheville is very liberal
The whole county in general is a liberal enclave but all of the surrounding areas are very RED, like scary RED. :scared:

We try not to drive through certain parts of NC at night, for real! LOL!
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #77
117. Asheville is Freak Central
...but it's surrounded by Freep Central. The outlying areas are full of nutcases.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #117
125. Asheville is a hip little town
Most Democratic candidates won Buncombe county with big margins, high 50% ranges up to over 60%.

It was closer for the presidential race:

George W. Bush/Dick Cheney 51,686 50.01%

John F. Kerry/John Edwards 50,90349 49.25%

You're right about surrounding areas! Creepy freepyvilles.

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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #125
149. Remember that we voted on Sequoia black boxes.
Odd how Buncombe went big for Dems, but somehow we voted for the Shrub.

I don't buy it. Never have.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #149
162. I agree. That is HIGHLY suspicious!
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #117
329. An almost surreal scene last time I visited Asheville.
Beautiful Sunday afternoon and a bunch of alternative kids are enjoying a small festival in one of the local parks. Then two men drive up in a truck, whip out a bullhorn and start blasting them with old testament promises of fire and brimstone. Surreal, violent and bizarre behavior. I doubt they made many converts that day. Kind of shows you both sides of Asheville and the conflicts that exist there.

And a funny quote I read in the Charlotte Observer a few years ago in an article about Asheville. One of the locals was lamenting about how Asheville is "full of witches, homosexuals and vegetarians". Damn those vegetarians!
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nytemare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #72
387. I have been to Maggie Valley about 3 times
and each time I have visited Waynesville. They had many family owned art shops and such, very talented and friendly people. Last time I visited, I wore my "vets for Kerry" shirt a lot, this past August. I got a lot of good comments, there.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. Link Please...we need to confirm the story, let's not run off like
chickens with their heads cut off. Link to the story....Sources!
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #75
90. i can second hand confirm as well
my girlfriend caught the broadcast and confirms the story.

it should be running again at 11pm.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #90
325. I heard the WLOS story too n/t
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
73. wow, this hits close to home
wow, not far from where i live, this is crazy.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
80. Can you please watch WLOS news tonight?
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. Just got off the phone with Shelia at WLOS tee-vee
She says that they will be doing a story on their 11pm newscast.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Post in the Lounge for someone to watch.
You're most apt to find an Asheville or nearby type there.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. what's that supposed to mean?
Asheville "type"?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. Sorry--I meant someone near Asheville.
Heat of the moment, blonde, tired... anyway, I swear, no harm intended.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #80
91. i am going to try
we have company coming into night about the same time so it maybe tricky.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #80
113. i am going to attempt to record the audio
does anyone have anyone have host space for it?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #113
179. I can host stuff Sheepy.. will PM you n/t
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #179
184. cool, ok
it won't be the best audio it will have a little hum, but it should at least do the job of solidy confirming this story for now.

i suspect i should have it around 11:20 or so.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #184
195. I'll do a copy, too
I'll put it up on my host.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #113
182. I can host it, but only for a day or two.
Long enough to pass it around anyway. I'll try to get video myself tonight. I can save it as an avi or mpeg and maybe compress it so it doesn't kill my website.

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starmaker Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #80
138. my hometown
will watch tv tonight can't wait for Waynesville mountaineer paper to come out tomorrow. Don"t judge all of us by this story please

I'm local so any requests?
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #138
147. my hometown too
Tuscola class of '89 here

I think Chan Chandler graduated with me
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starmaker Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #147
203. class of 74 honary member
been here now since 80
hcc 82 wood work prod craft
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #138
372. I used to live there
I am a WCU graduate and I lived in Waynesville for a few years while I was a student there.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
74. Guess who owns WLOS TV?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. Holy schist. Why am I not surprised?
See my latest post--I suspect we are being set-up BIG TIME.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #74
86. yep, it's a sinclair station
don't take this out on the employees of the station though, they realise sinclair sucks too.

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Yellow_Dog Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #86
294. No they don't
They ain't smart enough, WLOS sucks as a news station. 90% of what they air as news, ain't news, or if it is it was captured off of the network feeds or elsewhere. Every news cast is full of non-news items from anywhere but here.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #294
386. i know someone who used to work there
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:23 AM by SheepyMcSheepster
the station management was often at odds with sinclairs royal decrees.
they are not lock step with the home office, but they know what they have to do to keep their job.

pissing on the staff because of how the owners make them run the station is in poor taste imo.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #74
101. WLOS-TV contact information
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:12 PM by paineinthearse
http://www.wlos.com /

First Broadcast: September 18, 1954
Owner: Sinclair Broadcast Group
Network Affiliation: ABC
Transmitter: Mount Pisgah
Tower Height: 6,089 Above sea level
Studios: 110 Technology Drive
Asheville, NC 28803

Phone Numbers: 828-684-1340
800-288-8813
News Hotline: 800-288-2413
News Email: news@wlos.com
Fax Numbers: Administration: 828-651-4612
Business: 828-651-4601
Engineering: 828-651-4516
News: 828-651-4618
Programming: 828-651-4597
Promotions: 828-651-4601
Sales/Traffic: 828-651-4619
HR Director: 828-681-5223

South Carolina Offices: 100 Verdae Blvd.
Suite 410
Greenville, SC 29607
Fax: 864-297-8085

Rutherford Co. News Bureau Phone: 828-286-3707
Fax: 828-286-4202

Haywood Co. News Bureau Phone: 828-456-6020
Fax: 828-456-3933

General Manager: Jack Connors
News Director: Tom Loebig

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
76. If true, look to this to take a fast track to SCOTUS. This is BIG.
The devious minds in the Heritage Foundation are capable of engineering ANYTHING.

This is PERFECT--why shouldn't churches, like private clubs, be free to choose who is in their membership? That's the idea behind it, I'm willing to bet.

And/or expect a challenge relating to churches tax-exempt status--or even (God, I'm paranoid lately) a SCOTUS challenge to allow PRIVATE CLUBS to get tax-exempt status?

Don't think for a moment, if true, that the church did this entirely of their own volition.

In other words, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #76
116. That's a good point.
Coming soon to a SCOTUS near you: no GLBT folk allowed in Walmart church. So sayeth the Lawd, Bill Frist.

I'm paranoid too. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. :tinfoilhat:
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #76
307. What you say makes sense.
Is a lawsuit likely to happen over this? Is this their plan?:
1) Instigate the liberals to sue the church or to push for abolishing its tax-exempt status.

2) When church loses, point to persecution of Christians -- not free to associate as they choose.

3) Push it to SCOTUS which either
A) rules in favor of church giving immediate blank check to merger of partisan politics with churches (and a tax-exempt cover for new partisan groups to form under guise of being churches),
OR
B) rules against, giving additional momentum to the Fristian Justice Sunday jihad.

Am I off on the wrong track here?
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #307
324. No, not off track. With the smooth machinations of the Heritage Foundation
their corporate media shills (look at the membership of HF, far more journalists than there ought to be), and a compliant congres...

We're fucked (mind that I almost never say that word).

Combined with Dick Cheney's refferring to Democrats in the Congress and Senate as "the other faith," this yellow dog Christian is very creeped out.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
78. Damn it I can't stand this I'm calling WLOS
1-800-288-8813

to see what I can find out. If they will be doing a story tonight.

I have to be off line to call.

I'll be back.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
82. If true,
it may be an event that just might open some eyes and raise some eyebrows of many who don't pay attention to things.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Or a HUGE set-up. See my post 76, above. nt
Edited on Thu May-05-05 07:56 PM by blondeatlast
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. I know, I know...I just got off the phone with the station
They first broadcast this story on their 6pm newscast and woman on the phone said they will do another story at 11pm.

Call them at 1-800-288-8813 wait for the prompt to report a news story.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #88
94. I contacted by email some reporters
At WRAL. With the scoop competition between stations as big as it is in Raleigh, if there is any truth to the story, they'll be on it.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. Damn, we evilDUers are scheming little nice people, aren't we?!
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:08 PM by blondeatlast
:evilgrin: :rofl:

I admire the way you think!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #97
105. the devil made me do it?
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:20 PM by mmonk
;-)
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
85. Time for Taxes East Waynesville Baptist Church. Ante up.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
87. I sent them a very respectful email.
If I get a reply, I'll post it.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
96. Unreal. America is a very sick country.
This is just one more symptom of a country that's extremely sick.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
99. How very Christian of them.
I'm sure He is pleased.
<satire off>
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
100. Why didn't I think of this?
My mom has a reporter friend at WLOS (she's kinda in politics in that area...on our side) lemme see if I can get her to call him to confirm this cold.

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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
102. The station did run this story on evening news and will rerun at 11 pm
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:15 PM by wishlist
I also called the station to confirm and was told they did run a story earlier today about no Democrats allowed at this church anymore. I was told that they are going to run a shorter version of the story on the 11 pm news.

This station used to post word for word exact transcripts on their website of all of their broadcasts shortly after airing, but they stopped doing that last year.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #102
107. This bears VERY close observation.
This is too STUPID and big to have been made entirely on the church's part.

Bye, bye, tax-exempt status--yet let's just see how fast it goes to SCOTUS.

:scared:

Something is DEFINITELY up.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #107
131. Agree we need some major confirmation and it would be really odd
for a pastor to risk the tax status. But do not rule out that some of these guys go picking fights so they can scream about how they are persecuted. They love to be persecuted. Do they think it makes them Christ-like? Dunno, but some people just throw reason out the window.
Seems like that is happening more and more of late.

What I wanna know is would this, if true, affect only that one church's tax exempt status or would the entire Souther Baptist Church affiliation be zapped? Taxing the whole parent church would really set off a fight, and make a dent in the deficit. It would be sorta Rovian to set up a situation like that.

Oh, how I would love to see an army of auditors poring over the books of a huge PAC acting as a church.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #131
449. Well, you are correct that this is a campaign of theirs.
What they are trying to do is pass something called the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act." It is a bill that permits SOME 501(c)(3)'s to engage in politicking from the org, but not others. This bill was specifically designed to permit PREACHERS/PASTORS/MINISTERS to engage in politicking from the PULPIT. Other 501-c-3 charitable/educational institutions will NOT be able to electioneer.

Just THEIR fundamentalist fans.

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ElaineinIN Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #131
494. As a tax lawyer
I'm always surprised how many of them don't know or don't care....
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tapper Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #107
244. Would there really be a court case?
I find it hard to see one, at least in terms of the action taken today, throwing people out,anyway. Freedom of association (and disassociation) is a key part of religious freedom - every church has the right to determine it's membership.

If there's a case for revoking their tax status, I would think, it would be on what the pastor and other leaders were saying and what the church was doing before the election ...

I feel sad for the folks kicked out -- it wouldn't surprise me if the average length of membership for that group is longer than for the folks that stayed. That's what happened when the church I grew up in split -- the folks who left (voluntarily), were many of the older members. It was those who hadn't been there as long, and *especially those who came after the preacher* who were more apt to stay.

... I wonder how many of those kicked out voted to call that pastor ... (I think Southern Baptist churches find their own pastors, like the American Baptists do.)

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #244
326. Excommunication based strictly on political party identification...
It's a well-orchestrated set-up on the fast track to SCOTUS.

Mark my words...
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #244
352. Read up on the Heritage Foundation or David Brock's "The Republican
Noise Machine." These are dastardly little effers.

Even if the pastor acted of his own volition, the HF will get its smarmy little hands in it soon.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
106. Maybe they didn't have enough rattlesnakes for everybody.
:shrug:

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
109. No Shit? This Is Absolutely Illegal. This Is Not A Gray Area.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:19 PM by cryingshame
If this is true, then it helps us make our case.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
111. "excommunicated" sounds awfully Catholic for a bunch of Baptists
Well, its a compliment to be excluded from a cult, isn't it?
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. Baptists don't "excommunicate" they "cast out."
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:24 PM by ultraist
As in, "Cast him out, in the name of Jesus!" (Referring to the "devil").

I don't think Baptist's use the term, "excommunicate" but I may be mistaken.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #115
128. Kind of like "casting out" demons
Personally, I always thought the "shunning" done by the Amish was pretty effective too...
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DemBeans Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
119. well, well...don't they just own God's Little Acre
Frist is going to feel the heat for every extremist act like this - no doubt he's empowered them associating himself with the "Democrats are against people of faith" bullshit. He was warned, BEGGED not to involve himself in the Sunday Nutfest - but his ambitions are more important than maintaining even a thin veneer of civility in this country.

If I were a Democratic leader, I'd paste Frist right on the face of this and spread it far and wide.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #119
165. You know what's really scary?
Edited on Thu May-05-05 09:13 PM by buddyhollysghost
A Repuke in these parts is representing a housing development named "Godsland." I kid you not. It was in the Cumberland View. I didn't know whether to laugh or laugh.

I would love to find a link but dialup prevents my search...But I am absolutely serious.

Jesus has left the building...and they were clapping as they drove him out.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #165
431. sadly, that doesn't surprise me either
there's definitely something wrong with these folks.

<<Jesus has left the building...and they were clapping as they drove him out.>>

great line :D
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #165
578. It's good to know that they want to be away from "us"
just as much as we want to be away from them. They can worship the bomb all they want.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #119
594. that's right: FRISTIANS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN
FLATTEN FRIST: RECENT VOTING:

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/3/18/11719/95...

drop Veteran's health care
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, *******Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against $2.8 billion for veterans health care and $2.8 billion for deficit reduction. Thats a commercial.

voted against funding Medicaid
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, ********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Talent and Thomas Voted against restoring $14 billion to Medicaid and establishing a bipartisan Medicaid commission. Thats a commercial.

voted against Homeland security
Republicans Ensign, ***********Frist, Hatch, Kyl, Lott, Santorum and Thomas voted against $855 million for Homeland Security grants for first responder programs, port security grants and border patrol agents. Thats a commercial.

voted against restoring Community Development Block Grant Programs
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, *********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas (funny how the same names keep coming up) voted against restoring $1.9 billion in cuts to the Community Development Block Grant Program. Thats a commercial.

voted against Vocationa Education Act (which helps people get jobs who are disabled or have been unemployed)
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against $7.46 billion for the Perkins Vocational and Technical Education Act and deficit reduction. Commercial.

voted against education and deficit reduction
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against $4.75 billion for education and $4.75 billion for deficit reduction. Commercial.

voted against increasing Pell Grant (allowing people to move through college)
Republicans Allen, Burns, Ensign, ***********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Talent and Thomas voted against restoring $5.4 billion to education program cuts and increasing the maximum Pell Grant award to $4,500. Commercial.

voted against agricultural programs
Republicans put the bricks to farmers: Allen, Burns, Chafee, DeWine, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against restoring $2.8 billion to agriculture programs. Midwest commercial.

voted against family planning
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, **********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Talent and Thomas voted against a resolution supporting $1 billion for family planning programs, such as teen pregnancy prevention. Moral values hypocrisy commercial.

wants to allow prepackaged news to come your way
Republicans Allen, Burns, Chafee, DeWine, Ensign, ***********Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against refusing to establish any appropriations bill that allows funds to be provided for "prepackaged news stories" that do not have a disclaimer stating "Paid for by the United States Government" running throughout the presentation. Commercial.

voted against special education programs
Republicans Allen, Burns, DeWine, Ensign, ************Frist, Hatch, Hutchison, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Santorum, Snowe, Talent and Thomas voted against a reserve fund that would provide $71.3 billion for special education programs under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. Commercial.


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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
120. Okay people I just got off the phone with my mom
Her connection at WLOS is the one who reported the story. His name is Russ Bowen. He lives in Waynesville. He is WLOS's Haywood county guy. I've tried to call his cell phone...but no answer.

But here's the FREAKY-DEAKY part. The preacher's name is Chan Chandler. I THINK I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL WITH THIS CRETIN!!!

Frantically looking for my Tuscola Sr. High School annual....
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #120
132. ewww...
Call him up! Ask him,is he out of his fucking mind?

So, Waynesville is Haywood county? Is this an all white church?
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #132
137. probably all white...
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #120
351. Ewwwwwwww..................
Time for some obsessive hand washing. You have been defiled if in fact this creature of the Antichrist actually went to school with you. I'm so sorry!
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #120
504. Weird. We had a Chan Chandler at our H.S. too.....
He was a big-time get high, though.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
121. How could there have been any Dems to begin with?
I mean, if we're all faithless sinners, what were any Democrats doing in church in the first place? I thought Democrats hated God? I thought we never went to church. Maybe they're just covering their bases, but I'm SURE nobody actually had to leave. If you believe in God, you automatically vote Republican, and if you vote Democratic then you automatically hate God, right?

:sarcasm:
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #121
353. When I was growing up in the Southern Baptist Church
we were all Democrats. It was a given. Here's a fine example of the skill of the Rethugs in being able to turn the group mindthink to their advantage.
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Ronnie Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #353
524. When I was growing up in the SBC...
I don't remember politics even being discussed.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
122. This is a no-shitter, folks
I saw it. It's happening. The people are freaking out. I'm freaking out.

The first thing my wife said was, "They need to call the IRS." I see that many of my fellow DUers figured that out as well. This is not a church any longer, it's a political organization. Time to pay your share, wingnuts.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #122
130. How far is Waynesville from Asheville? Is it in Buncombe county?
There are white supremacy hate groups concentrated in that area. I'm assuming this is an all white church. Most churches in NC are segregated.

I wouldn't be surprised if this church was tied to the KKK.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #130
133. Beautiful downtown Waynesville is located approx
40 miles west of Asheville in Haywood county.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. Oooooh...that's why an entire congregation would support this
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #130
142. Waynesville is in Haywood Co.
I'm guessing it's an all-white church since the churches in the area are mostly one-color affairs whether by design or circumstance.

I don't know about any racist connections. There are almost as many churches as houses here, so it's hard to say what their story is. The news report said that lifelong Democrats who were members for 30-40 years were tossed out because they voted for John Kerry and wouldn't repent in front of the congregation.

The preacher, Chan Chandler, is a fairly young guy. I assume he's one of the new kind of Freeper preachers that the SBC is churning out in large numbers. Don't know about race, but Republicanism seems to have become Southern Baptist Convention dogma.
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starmaker Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #130
144. Haywood co. 30 miles west
some of us enlightened locals call it haywire county
this is absurd and can't wait to here the gossip
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #130
369. I went to college in western NC and used to live in Asheville
You're absolutely right, the KKK is very strong there, although I don't know if this particular church has ties to that organization.

The area is very heavily Caucasian. A college friend of mine who grew up in Canton, NC (also in Haywood County) had a high school graduating class of over 200. She was one of three African-American students in that class--there was one exchange student, and the rest were all Caucasian. She told me a story of how one of the other African-American students found a cross burning in his yard one morning because he was dating a Caucasian student. I'm not making this up! :scared:

Also, I remember a number of years back the KKK had a march in Asheville. They met with a large number of protesters, but the fact that they were even there in the first place is scary and is indicative of the racism that exists in that area.

As other posters have noted, Asheville is a very cool city, but it's surrounded by rural areas with a seemingly homogenous, uneducated populace. It's like a tiny blue island in a giant sea of red.

I'm a North Carolina native and lived in western North Carolina for about eight years (during and after college). This whole situation with that church really makes me sad, but I can't say that I'm entirely too surprised. :-(
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
123. Here's their phone number again 828 456 6841
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
126. VOTE THIS UP!
Put this at the top of the Greatest page. This needs more eyeballs.
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PowerToThePeople Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
134. Fundies suck
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:51 PM by PowerToThePeople
Pic edited for super inappropriateness =)
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #134
145. That's fucking sick
That doesn't even pretend to be funny.
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PowerToThePeople Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #145
153. It was overboard huh?
But sometimes I think we need to fight hate with hate. They are more than willing to be inhumaine to us, why do we try to treat them so good. We have a "thank you sir, may I have another" attitude.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #153
161. I liked it
but it has certain negative connotations in the south.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #153
173. I agree with your sentiment but
...burning churches? That's pure evil.

I say this as a gun-toting, in-your-face liberal Democrat who loves confrontations with right-wing idiots. I'll meet venom with venom, I'll be loud and proud, but I will never, never advocate burning a building. The innocent are the first to die.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #173
467. No, you would only burn it when nobody was in it - it's cool.
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
135. I sent this to ACLU of North Carolina aclunc@nc.rr.com
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #135
140. excellent!
Edited on Thu May-05-05 08:46 PM by ultraist
We should write LTTE of the Asheville Times. (They endorsed Kerry).

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #140
462. Letter to Editor at Citizen-Times, Ashevill: dvrussel@ashevill.gannett.com
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #462
464. citizen times newspaper, Asheville (Waynesville is next city over):
828 252 5611: ask for news room
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
141. I know I went to high school with this "preacher"
Chan Chandler. Damn IT!! My yearbooks are buried in the attic...
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #141
146. Try classmates.com n/t
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georgia10 Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
148. I've posted it at DailyKos
hope you don't mind, but with madness like this, I thought this should get as much attention as possible!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #148
158. Nice work!
Edited on Thu May-05-05 09:06 PM by ultraist
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/5/211218/4946

It Begins: Dems "Excommunicated" From Church?
by georgia10
Thu May 5th, 2005 at 18:12:18 PDT

For those that thought that there has not been a full scale war lanched against liberals; for those who didn't take the radical right's promise to "eradicate liberals" seriously, I present to you, Exhibit A: East Waynesville Baptist Church has just kicked out all its Democratic members.

Yes. You read that right. If you didn't vote for Bush, you had to "repent your sin". And finally, they figured why deal with the liberal sinners at all..

_______

NC has a Democratic Governor, Easley. I think I will email his office as well as my Congressman Price (Dem). BOTH of my Senators are Repugs.


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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #148
175. thank you thank you thank you
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
150. Did I mention there was a culture war going on?
This is it. Plain for all to see. The religious right has destroyed the social contract. They no longer wish to play by its rules demanding tolerance and acceptance of other voices. They have all the voices they want and have declared an open war on society. Either we play by their rules or they will condemn us and banish us from their sight.

Get ready for more of this. Be ready for more advertising of their Jesus. Be ready for more demands of their voice determining the way this country is run.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #150
154.  The red god vs the blue god
I can just see it now red and blue water fountains. You know I bet that's why thier hyping the runaway bride nonsense so much. They want to scare you into the sanctity of marriage meme.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #154
292. How about this one:
Old Testament vs. New Testament.

Hee hee we got dibs on Jesus.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #292
327. The only giggle possible in this thread. Thanks! nt
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Kipepeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
151. Isn't this illegal?
I mean, aren't they essentially campaigning and isn't that illegal when you're a church?

Maybe I misunderstood.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
152. 60 Minutes might be interested in this. And the IRS.
The ** is starting to hit the fan, y'all. Buckle up yer seat belts.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #152
198. KO, are you reading this? Corporate media, get your scoop yet?
Be sure you credit the tinhats at DU, thank you.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #152
473. CNN COMMENT LINE: 404 827 1500
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #473
474. 60 Minutes: 60m@cbsnews.com
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #474
476. Thanks, sent last night. n/t
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IowaGuy Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
155. And why is this church still enjoying the tax benefits of ...
non-profiit status....time for these fundies to put their money where their mouth is
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
156. Absolutely unbelievable....religious terrorist
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
159. Are the RW extremists strategically placing operatives in pulpits now? n/t
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #159
357. Actually, they've been doing it for 20 years or so
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
160. Is this for real?
Is there a link available?
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #160
168. no on line link
I'm sure the Asheville Citizen-Times will run a story in the morning. The Waynesville paper will probably have something tomorrow afternoon (website prob. tomorrow night) Outside of giving you the television station reporter's cell phone number (which I have and have tried to call) that's all we've got.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #160
174. hopefully i will be able to record the audio of the newscast
Edited on Thu May-05-05 09:22 PM by SheepyMcSheepster
the story is supposed to run tonight at 11pm.

and pass it on.

we just need someone with some webspace to host it.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #174
186. Check your PM's I can host..
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
163. Can I just say, from the bottom of my heart to all DUers
Thank you! For taking so much interest in the goings on of my freaky hometown. My Mom has been in local politics there for almost 20 years and she has witnessed the break down of civility and common sense (and has been on the recieving end of a lot of hate and vitriol for being a Dem). If there ever was a more telling and frightening thing to happen in a small mountain town, this is it. I want my hometown back. I want my country back. With your help, we can move mountains.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #163
177. Oh my word, child. We adore you for posting this!
libnc, how would we know if you weren't brave enough to let us know? I am alternating between derision for such blatant abuse of a church's function and visions in my head from the PBS special on the Death Camps in Nazi Germany.


How long? Is this what they plan? They are a minority here, and they had best remember this. Most Americans want freedom; only dogs like this Chan Chandler would stoop this low to gain a bit of power. Jesus had no use for men like this.

DO NOT let these fools take your beliefs away or frighten you. They are WRONG. And we must not ever forget that.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #163
330. Mom raised you right (er, Left). A big thank you to Mom--and you.
Having something happen like this in your hometown really hurts, I know.

Thanks for all the work to check into it.

:hug:
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yorkiemommie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #163
420. thank your mom
...i admire her courage!
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
164. Those freaks who stood up & applauded were then excommunicated by Jesus.
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bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
166. Why is anyone surprised?
The church has already made unwelcome gays, blacks, hispanics, foreigners, single moms, disabled people, retarded people, poor people and innumerable other disenfranchised groups. It was only a matter of time until liberals, intellectuals, and democrats got the boot. We are, however, in good company-Jesus got kicked out of the mainstream church, too. It was right after "He made a whip of ropes, and he drove them from the temple, saying 'My Father's house is a house of prayer, but you have made it a house of commerce'".
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
167. Who gets custody of the snakes?
Whenever I think things can't get more bizarre, the fundies always come through. IRS needs to be notified.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #167
171.  I dont care about the snakes I want the whine (nt)
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Brianboru Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #171
380. Take the snakes. Baptists use apple juice! n/t
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #380
541. Not apple juice. Used to be Welch's grape, but switched to grape kool-aid
:evilgrin:
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
169. Once the Dems are gone, watch-they will start fighting each other
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
170. On National Prayer Day? This Makes Baby Jesus Cry.
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
172. With the Dems goes all of the financial support for that church...
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
176. Sounds like anyone with 1/2 a brain would have left already
Who needs a church like that.
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PowerToThePeople Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
178. When they pass on they will pass through..
Edited on Thu May-05-05 09:27 PM by PowerToThePeople
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #178
192. In the immortal words of Johnny Cash
Edited on Thu May-05-05 09:51 PM by buddyhollysghost
"...I've turned my back on hatred, lying, prejudice and greed.
Found the future in the present.
Hope within a seed...

One thing that's for certain
One word that rings true...

It's a wicked world we live in but the truth is, we're only passin' through"

JC and One a them Scruggs boys
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #178
238. The Gates of... Hell ...
:evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown:
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
180. Keith Olberman might like to hear about this......
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #180
183. good idea
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #180
403. Just e-mailed COUNTDOWN with this (n/t)
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
185. Those expelled Dems should drive thru the streets blasting Gore's
last speech on a loudspeaker. They should zero in on the part where he discusses this Country being formed to escape oppression from England, where politics and religion were commingled to the point there was no freedom in either.

Al Gore, winner of the 2000 Presidential election, one of America's great statemen, is also ... a Southern Baptist.

Shame, shame, shame on these North Carolina Baptists who violated the word of God by sitting in judgment on their fellow man.

Shame, shame, shame.

I left the Baptist church when it came out in support of the pre-emptive attack on Iraq (the only church in the country to do so). If I hadn't left then, I would have had to have left a thousand times since then.

I live by the commandments I was thought as a child in a Southern Baptist church in Knoxville, Tennessee. And in all seriousness, that was a verse I learned as a child, "judge not lest ye be judged." How do these Baptists from North Carolina reconcile their actions with the teachings of the Bible?

Al Gore is a better man than I since he has been able to stay in the Church, but those Dems in North Carolina need to get that loudspeaker out and dust off that Gore speech.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
187. This is insane, yet somehow I'm
Edited on Thu May-05-05 09:37 PM by walldude
not suprised. But I am glad, slowly but surely they are showing tehir true colors.. The IRS needs to get on alot of these "churches". I bet Focus On The Family still enjoys tax exempt status...

--edit-- nominated.. this is front page material. Also e-mailed a link to this thread to Olberman.. I think I'll shoot one off to the Daily show as well..
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Cheney Killed Bambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #187
190. Any confirm yet?
As soon as someone sees a real news link, they should post on the breaking news page.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #190
191. Posts 81, 84, 90 and there's a LiveJournal link now
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Mich Otter Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
189. Jon Stewart would love this for "The Daily Show"
Does anyone know how to get the info to Jon Stewart?
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sharman Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #189
296. Wouldn'y you love to see
Samantha Bee interview Rev Chandler?
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sarahlee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #296
302. That would be wonderful!
Gotta get this to Jon and Keith Olberman.
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Done Donating Member (680 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #189
391. This would be good for the "God Machine".
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Duncan Grant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
194. Cheerleaders for Jesus!
It's like a damn sporting event (cue cheerleaders):

"We got spirit in our britches, yes we do.
We got spirit in our britches, yes we do.
We got spirit in our britches,
and it really, really itches,
We got spirit in our britches, yes we do."

Maybe we can have Salvation Sports Sunday on the local Faux affiliate? Lunacy. World gone mad.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #194
259. LOL
:thumbsup: I'm hummin' now.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #194
331. Okay, giggle in this thread #2. Well-needed, too. Thanks. nt
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
196. Their tax-exempt status should be eliminated immediately
This is a political hate cult, not a church. There is absolutely no excuse for having the taxpayers support these raving fundie extremists. Either the policy changes are they are OUT.

And what do the other Baptist churches say? Are individual ministers allowed to go off into nutso land like this without any repercusssions?
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
199. Asheville area DUers tune in to News 13 WLOS NOW!
It will probably be a quick blurb so heads up

I'm in Winston-Salem so I'm helpless

I need a play by play
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #199
200. We're gonna need a new thread soon
:)
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
201. Asheville area DUers tune in to News 13 NOW
prob be a short blurb so heads up

I need a play by play

I'm in Winston-Salem
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InfoMinister Donating Member (546 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #201
204. Anyway Anyone Can Record It
and post a file on the net?
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starmaker Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #201
207. Sounds like 9 members xed
about 40 left in protest
preacher said if u voted for john kerry you were
for abortion and gays
said decision was not political
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #207
247. Thanks starmaker!
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #207
328. Interesting, since Kerry was NOT for gay marriage and...
Edited on Fri May-06-05 07:37 AM by Dawgs
abortions have increased since Bush has been in office.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #207
359. The forty who left in protest
and the Dems kicked out are the only Godly ones in that demon's pit. I'm glad they got out. They may just have saved their souls.
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
202. Freaked out? I've been freaked out by fundie wierdness for years
now. I think people just don't understand what is really going on with a lot of these groups.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
205. LINK
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #205
206. heh heh
"not politically motivated". I guess lying isn't a sin in that church.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #206
208. Then why weren't Republicans kicked out?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #208
281. Exactly
Total bullshit. As Malloy said would this guy kick out Jimmy Carter? Knowing this person more then likely.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #208
334. Why wasn't the question asked "do you support abortion and/or gay rights?"
Far fewer asked to leave, probably, but by making it purely about votes for president and party affiliation, there's no doubt it's political.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #205
213. I'm dying to steal that icon. ROTFLMAO.
:rofl:
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #213
220. Really?
Heck, I can make you one similar to it. There was a picture floating around here...believe it or not, that guy has a twin.

Just tell me what you want it to say and it's yours.
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amerikat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #205
214. Thanks for that link
:yourock:

The good news was that 40 other members left in support of the ones that were expelled.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #205
217. Thanks for catching this
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #205
223. holy moley ...That confirms it for me
I've been watching this thread waiting .

I'm going to see if I can't get this to Malloy tonight
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carpe diem Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #205
230. it is somewhat encouraging that ...
forty (40) REAL CHRISTIANS left the church in protest, but I wonder how may stayed and applauded...This needs to be on the networks and front pages by Monday.or at LEAST on Air America...I would LUV for the Whitehouse and the Republicans in congress to have to answer quesions about this...Scott McClellan at the daily briefing...everyone from Frist to McCain to Santorum to Hastert to Snowe and Chafee, all of them...make them say it out loud, on the record...either I CONDEMN the actions of this church/pastor or I condone/agree with it....excuse me if i don't hold my breath waiting for the MSM to press anyone on it, if it even gets covered...
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InfoMinister Donating Member (546 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #205
236. One of My Friends Decided To Post Your Link On Milkandcookies
Edited on Thu May-05-05 10:43 PM by InfoMinister
It's a site where people post links to videos and websites. He didn't ask me before he did this. Anyway, if you want him to remove it I'll tell him to do so. I don't want your bandwidth to be used up.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/30022 /

Anyway, if you don't care go vote for it on the main page.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/30022/details/
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #205
245. Thanks for linking that, Spiffarino. I posted this in the NC forum...
...with full credit to libnnc for the OP, and to you for the link.

I just don't know what to even SAY about this bullshit.

There's no point in pretending that this is just a 'different opinion' anymore; these Fascimentalists are waging WAR on America and it's Laws.

Why do they hate FREEDOM so much?
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #205
248. What the hell country is this anyway?
It's like watching something from a really bad movie.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #205
273. Mike Malloy Just mentioned the News report
:hi:
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #205
278. Er....
Can we have that in a MPEG format for the Linux users?
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #278
284. I don't know
I had to use wmv to get it small enough to host it. I'll see what I can do with my limited software.

I wasn't thinking about the Penguinheads...sorry!
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #278
290. Done, but not the best
I dl'd a trial version of some ripping software. It puts an annoyance graphic into the video, but the sound is all there.

http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/...

Windows users, please use the other link...thanks.
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #290
297. Thanks
No sound but thanks. Most likely my sound card. That and media players blow on my notebook PC. Damn Dell.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #278
319. Yo, right here.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
209. ok, i have got an audio recording of the 11pm broadcast
Edited on Thu May-05-05 10:19 PM by SheepyMcSheepster
sent to another DU'er for hosting, hopefully it will be up soon!


edit: nevermind, i see someone was able to get a video capture up already. here is the link: http://www.spiffarino.completelyfreehosting.com/images/...
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #209
229. Who's the DUer?
I'd like him to help with the hosting if he could. My bandwidth is getting creamed.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #229
232. bpilgrim I believe
you could ask him :hi:
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #232
249. Thanks PP!
:D
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #229
301. check PM. eom
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
210. They'll need to expell the teachings of Jesus, too
since he is one of the most radical left wing liberals in history.
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
212. Over 40 members of church have left due to anti-Dem position of church
I just saw the broadcast. It was short and not very detailed or explained completely. Reporter said pastor and leaders of church oppose Democrats based on positions about homosexuality and abortion. A former member was shown on TV and stated that they were told that anyone who did not vote for Bush was against the church. Reporter said that the pastor was contacted by WLOS and responded that the church's stance was not politically motivated.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #212
221. Those 40 that walked out in protest are my kind of republicans.
Surely this preacher should know this will be negative on his church? I don't know the nationality of this preacher but how long before all the whites or blacks are expelled?

It makes me even more proud to see that Unitarian Church commercial. that was ingenious.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #212
243. ....."the church's stance was not politically motivated. :....".
....ooookay?! :banghead:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #243
337. We can't let this get spun out. There is simply no way that the good rever
can say that and not be LYING.

It wasn't about the ones who disbelieved church teaching on abortion and/or gay rights, it was about party affiliation.

In the back of my mind, I wish the 40 Republicans (who did the right thing, and God bless 'em) hadn't walked out. It would have strengthened the postion if they hadn't, but they were doing the right thing as they saw it.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #212
363. UGH!
"Reporter said that the pastor was contacted by WLOS and responded that the church's stance was not politically motivated."

Did WLOS or said reporter happen to mention that that was a baldfaced lie? No, probably not.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
215. Please let me know when there is a web video or transcript?
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #215
216. here
Edited on Thu May-05-05 10:19 PM by SheepyMcSheepster
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #216
233. Send this to Bill Maher
He'd love it.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #216
237. Um, wow.
This is.....just sick.

Why do I expect it to happen more and more? So glad I belong to a UU church. We would NEVER throw someone out for political reasons. In fact, seeing as it's a creedless church, I'm having a hard time thinking of many reasons why we would throw anyone out, besides violent or disturbing/criminal behavior.

Got that's horrific.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
218. My local ABC station has run this story!!! Sinclair affiliates both
They showed a pic. I DID go to school with Chan Chandler!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #218
222. Oh really?
Well I think your ex school mate is about to get a lot of heat for what he did.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #222
226. good! He was kind of distant as I remember
ROTC guy. Really quiet and not very friendly.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #226
364. Probably a sociopath
He graduated from torturing frogs to being the head of a crazy church. Oh, wait, I had that wrong. It was Bush who tortured frogs and is now the head of our country.

Sorry.
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
219. I did a summer intership in the area many years ago.
There are a few pockets of hard-line fundamentalism, but this is the first time I've seen anyone actually state their prejudice up-front.

Ironically, Waynesville is also the home to the SouthEast Jurisdictional Headquarters of the United Methodist Church (Lake Junaluska).

Wonder if the preacher is going to wear his white sheet to church next week.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #219
227. Ummm
I propose that we give them some pressure...nothing crazy or illegal, mind you, just alot of attention etc.. Anyone?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #227
235. The telephone number is posted.
I'm calling right now.
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Gardeaux08 Donating Member (291 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #235
253. Better yet,
Google Chan Chandler+Waynesville NC and see what you get...
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #253
270. Doh!!
aye carramba!!

not many folks in Waynesville have unlisted numbers...
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #219
365. Naw, that would be too honest
These snakes like to slither out from under rocks (like Lucifer) and then scuttle back under before they are exposed for the evil charlatans they are.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
225. Zero News Search Results for "East Waynesville Baptist Church"
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #225
228. Did you see the link above?
The TV news?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #228
241. I just called. After three tries I finally got thru.
The answering machine greeting ended with God bless you, I don't know if that was the preacher or someone else.

I couldn't really think of anything to say but I said Shame on you about five times and hung up. :-) I will call again tomorrow.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
239. This for real? Appartied com'n. Cause I definitely hate them and all the
bitches stand for!
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wishlist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
240. I'm glad that Democrats from this church are speaking out against this
Edited on Thu May-05-05 10:45 PM by wishlist
Living in Western N.C., I first became aware of the widespread demonizing of Democrats by conservative churches during the 2000 campaign with the use of political voting guides, phone banking using inflammatory claims about Democrats promoting late term abortions, and heavyhanded propaganda in the churches including showing graphic anti-abortion films to churchgoers to convince them to vote for Repubs. I have seen the voters guides, gotten the phone calls and heard a lot about this from Democratic friends who attend or used to attend these churches and talked to me about being made to feel guilty for voting Democratic because of what their church leaders were telling them. I am proud of those East Waynesville Democrats who are brave enough to speak out publicly on camera about what's been going on.
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nytemare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #240
382. Yes, and the video said 40 others left the church in protest
Good for them!
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
242. FUCK THOSE DAMN PSALM-SINGING SHITHEADS...
I REALLY DO HATE THEM!
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
246. AGAIN...THANK YOU DUers!!
Wow!! You guys ROCK!

I've been a member here since a little after the election and have lurked for longer. I don't post that much (and I certainly don't start threads unless its really important). I usually on the Randi Rhodes Message Board. I'm amazed and honored to be a part of such a wonderful online community.

Thanks again for giving a damn.
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amerikat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #246
254. NO, thank you for bringing this to our attention.
9 folks get booted out and forty more stand up to support them. Now that is inspiring.

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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #246
303. thanks for the heads up on the story
Edited on Fri May-06-05 12:50 AM by SheepyMcSheepster
i am local and i wouldn't have heard about it if it wasn't for you posting. thanks, you helped nationally break a major story today.

:yourock:
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legally blonde Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
251. This is fucking unbelievable!
What is happening to our country??? :scared:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #251
286. Something I wonder
what if there were any republicans who voted for Kerry? Did they get to stay?
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #251
405. I'd say it's going to hell in a handbasket nt
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
255. "Woe unto ye, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" nt
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
256. Okay...
If this is true, it's horrible. Disgusting.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #256
257. It's true here's the newscast
http://home.comcast.net/~walldude1/wlos.wmv

Spiffarino had limited bandwidth and asked me to host the file...
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #257
282. And thank you for it!
:D :thumbsup:
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #257
321. Please start new thread with this link!!!!
And thanks for the added bandwidth (all the other sites are overwhelmed!)
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finecraft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
258. Blogsphere picking up the story
Edited on Thu May-05-05 11:15 PM by finecraft
Hoffmania's blog http://hoffmania.typepad.com/blog / has picked it up. He also has a link to the video of the newscast. This is what he ways:

"Here's the video of the WLOS-TV story (A Sinclair Station!). Unbelievable. Churchgoers being barred from the East Waynesville (NC) Baptist Church for being Democrats. 40 others walked out in protest.

Welcome to hell."

Great blog by the way. One I read every day, and I recommend it highly.

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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #258
262. The expulsion isn't the only horror in this story
but the coercion of everyone else in the membership... imagine - I trust the person speaking from the pulpit and believe that what he tells me is true (I use "he" intentionally, as some of these churches do not allow women to speak from the pulpit) - and I am told, repeatedly, that this is God's will... after repeated repudiations of those who vote independently from the speech of the pulpit... and now with real "consequences" of said independent thought... Frightening mix. Would guess that this is really intended to target the general congregation rather than the few that were pushed out, or protested themselves out... it is a power play to keep everyone else in line. Quite the abuse of power.

Frightening thing is that unless this story gets picked up nationally, and has a true public backlash.... this move will be repeated in churches across the nation.

These are the moments that try me as a Christian. The ability to manipulate in the name of the religion is frightening. And the direction these folks interpret the religion, in my eyes is blasphemous... use Jesus's name to push policies that go directly against the teachings of the namesake of the religion.

It seems as though in some places we really are reaching back in history to reclaim its ugliest face. Why do I say this? Because this is the first move in dehumanizing "others" - and basing it upon political beliefs. When we no longer believe in the humaness of others - we grow much more likely to commit atrocities - believing that we are doing it for the "greater good" - and getting rid of the "other" is part of that formula.

I hope that this story gets picked up - and that it frightens folks on a massive scale. Only that sort of public reaction and repudiation would prevent this from becoming the next trend from many a pulpit.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #262
346. Ugh, salin, you're so right.
Liberal churches need to be stepping up their advertising right now in an attempt to lure these faithful somewhere where they can be accepted and not demonized.

I really feel sick to my stomach right now.
FSC
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #346
436. they CAN'T
Was it ABC who recently allowed Focus on the Family ads and then denied the "Jesus wouldn't turn anyone away" ad for the UU church?

Ugh.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #436
469. I hate the word can't.
You're right though.

I think buying a billboard across the street with arrows pointing to the church and the large word "hypocrites" would make a nice statement, wouldn't you?

FSC
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #436
557. If I'm not mistaken
Edited on Fri May-06-05 07:43 PM by hippywife
that ad was by the UCC not the UU church.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #346
571. cynically I respond - haha!
The United Church of Christ tried to air an advertisement around their belief of being open and affirming to all folks (ie gays are welcome) - and some networks refused to air it (even though they were going to pay the going rate).. on the grounds that they stay neutral on religious groups. That happened several months ago. The same network began running Focus on the Family ads within the past week. That is - the networks WONT show the liberal branch of the Christian Church - that is dedicated to social justice BECAUSE of their spiritual beliefs. We are currently silenced.
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #262
396. That's exactly right......pastors using their bully pulpit to
manipulate the congreation....Karl Rove and the republican party picked up on this years ago and since they know how powerful churches can be in getting "their" message out.
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InfoMinister Donating Member (546 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
260. Go Vote For The News Footage Here
Lets try to get this video some exposure. Go to this link and vote for it as well.

http://www.milkandcookies.com/links/30022/details /

Also, if anyone can host it somewhere else I'll tell Zack to use a different link to handle all of the bandwidth.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #260
263. "the actions were not politically motivated"?
Did he receive a sign from god telling him to kick these people out of his church?
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chalky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
264. It got through to Malloy! He's reading it on air now. n/m
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #264
265. WAY Cool!!!
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #264
266. Wow! Mike talked about it!
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InfoMinister Donating Member (546 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #264
277. Wow, He's Really Going Off On That Minister!
Little pissant preacher!
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
267. More LINKs to the video
Edited on Thu May-05-05 11:30 PM by Spiffarino
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
268. seems like there is some sort of WITCH HUNTING open season in NC, or at
least in that preachers mind DEMOCRATS seem to have become WITCHES in need of HUNTING.

THE BUSHES ARE FLOODING THIS COUNTRY WITH BACKWOOD TRAILER TRASH IGNORANCE.

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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #268
368. The Witch hunt analogy is a good one and not as inflammatory
as the one I thought of. I know someone else thought of my analogy too, though as they mentioned the Yellow "D" being sewn on to us.
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katamaran Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
269. I work at an ABC affiliate in VA
I sent the clip to our executive producer and two other producers (all Dems). Maybe we'll pick it up. Our News Director is a Repug though...he may nix it. But both our top anchors are diehard Dems :D
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #269
293. welcome katamaran
good to hear. thanks for doing htis. hope it gets on. let us know
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #269
305. As far as I am concerned this is not Democratic or
Republican its plain old SCARY!
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #305
370. Fascist, actually.
Not the first sign by any means but surely more overt than some of the others.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #305
379. This is the new Republican and get used to it.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #269
570. Welcome, Katamaran!
It's great to hear about those "diehard Dem" anchors! Shew... and again, welcome aboard!

:hi:
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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
271. and Jesus wept
this was bound to happen, it was just a matter of time.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
272. And THEY are the ones being persecuted?!!
n/t
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #272
287. Really
How disgusting. Maybe with this story people would open their eyes. I don't know. I posted it on a Christian board I frequent so who knows who'll see it. So far one person said they thought it was a stupid decision and they were republican.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
275. That is really, really... fundamentalist
to excommunicate someone on just political beliefs? That's horrible!
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
276. Ewww Tumbudy trew da first rock! Rock out... Rock for all free for all!
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
279. Check this.. Another Church in Midland TX is doing a similar thing
In a roundabout sort of way.

http://www.mywesttexas.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=1447332...

A large portion of the St. Nicholas' Episcopal Church parish dissatisfied with the direction of the national Episcopal Church was told this week by diocese officials to leave church property by June 1.

A parish vote taken in March indicated 89 percent of the congregation preferred to dissociate itself with the national Episcopal Church but remain a part of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

The national Episcopal Church, or ECUSA, is one of 38 provinces of the Anglican Communion which originated as the Church of England and spread to 70 million members worldwide.

Dissenting members of St. Nicholas' object to decisions made by the 2003 ECUSA General Convention which elected Gene Robinson, a practicing homosexual man, as bishop of New Hampshire. Other points of contention include ECUSA's approval of same-sex marriage blessings and "refusal to adhere to traditional Christian teachings."
<snip>
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #279
283. That's different. That's more procedural.
This was just blind hatred.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #279
342. They're free to leave, but what they don't want to get
is that the church building and property doesn't belong to the parish, but to the diocese. So they can go play somewhere else, but the church is staying...
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
280. Are they a PAC? Can they remain tax exempt? - n/t
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artemisia1 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
298. I'm afraid this "Pastor" will be a hero
to many in his area. Like the, prior to his militant support for Segregation, unreelectable Gov. Faubus of Arkansas, he will become a celebrity among the bigoted masses. I bet he gains more members than he loses. Right now in a town near you, bigot one is turning to bigot two and saying - "...finally there's someone willing to stick up for Christian principles in this world...".
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
299. This is getting an amazing amount of attention
I just looked at my host's stats and checked the hits on the news video. It's spreading like a virus. Religion sites, music sites, political, general BS sites...amazing.

There is a great deal of outrage out there and precious few apologists. This is backfiring on the theocrats.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
300. mental illness
gotta love that old time religion
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
304. I've converted it to Real Video 10
If anyone can host it, I'd be happy to email you the Real Video version.

It's about 300K bytes.

Cheers;

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DaDeacon Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
308. Now They can find a better church
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
310. Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations
Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations

Publication 1828 (Rev. 7-02)

Internal Revenue Service
1111 Constitution Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20224
Attn: T:EO:CE&O

---------------------------------

EXCERPT:

Political Campaign Activity

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all IRC Section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and
religious organizations, are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or
intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public
office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written)
made by or on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office
clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violation of this prohibition may result
in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For
example, certain voter education activities (including the presentation of public forums and the
publication of voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited
political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the
electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not constitute prohibited
political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner. On the other hand, voter education or
registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another, or (b) oppose
a candidate in some manner, or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will
constitute prohibited participation or intervention.



7


Individual Activity by Religious Leaders

The political campaign activity prohibition is not intended to restrict free expression on political
matters by leaders of churches or religious organizations speaking for themselves, as individuals.
Nor are leaders prohibited from speaking about important issues of public policy. However, for
their organizations to remain tax-exempt under IRC Section 501(c)(3), religious leaders cannot
make partisan comments in official organization publications or at official church functions. To
avoid potential attribution of their comments outside of church functions and publications,
religious leaders who speak or write in their individual capacity are encouraged to clearly indicate
that their comments are personal and not intended to represent the views of the organization.

The following are examples of situations involving endorsements by religious leaders.

Example 1: Minister A is the minister of Church J and is well
known in the community. With their permission, Candidate T
publishes a full-page ad in the local newspaper listing five
prominent ministers who have personally endorsed Candidate T,
including Minister A. Minister A is identified in the ad as the
minister of Church J. The ad states, Titles and affiliations of
each individual are provided for identification purposes only.
The ad is paid for by Candidate Ts campaign committee. Since
the ad was not paid for by Church J, the ad is not otherwise in an
official publication of Church J, and the endorsement is made by
Minister A in a personal capacity, the ad does not constitute
campaign intervention by Church J.

Example 2: Minister B is the minister of Church K. Church K
publishes a monthly church newsletter that is distributed to all
church members. In each issue, Minister B has a column titled
"My Views." The month before the election, Minister B states in
the "My Views" column, "It is my personal opinion that
Candidate U should be reelected." For that one issue, Minister B
pays from his personal funds the portion of the cost of the
newsletter attributable to the My Views column. Even though
he paid part of the cost of the newsletter, the newsletter is an
official publication of the church. Since the endorsement
appeared in an official publication of Church K, it constitutes
campaign intervention attributed to Church K.

Example 3: Minister C is the minister of Church L and is well
known in the community. Three weeks before the election he
attends a press conference at Candidate V's campaign
headquarters and states that Candidate V should be reelected.
Minister C does not say he is speaking on behalf of his church.
His endorsement is reported on the front page of the local



8

newspaper and he is identified in the article as the minister of
Church L. Since Minister C did not make the endorsement at an
official church function, in an official church publication or
otherwise use the church's assets, and did not state that he was
speaking as a representative of Church L, his actions did not
constitute campaign intervention attributable to Church L.

Example 4: Minister D is the minister of Church M. During
regular services of Church M shortly before the election,
Minister D preached on a number of issues, including the
importance of voting in the upcoming election, and concludes by
stating, It is important that you all do your duty in the election
and vote for Candidate W. Since Minister Ds remarks
indicating support for Candidate W were made during an official
church service, they constitute political campaign intervention
attributable to Church M.

Inviting a Candidate to Speak

Depending on the facts and circumstances, a church or religious organization may invite political
candidates to speak at its events without jeopardizing its tax-exempt status. Political candidates
may be invited in their capacity as candidates, or individually (not as a candidate).

Speaking as a candidate. Like any other IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization, when a
candidate is invited to speak at a church or religious organization event as a political
candidate, the church or religious organization must take steps to ensure that:
It provides an equal opportunity to the political candidates seeking the same
office,
It does not indicate any support of or opposition to the candidate (this should be
stated explicitly when the candidate is introduced and in communications
concerning the candidates attendance), and
No political fundraising occurs.

Equal opportunity to participate. Like any other IRC Section 501(c)(3)
organization, in determining whether candidates are given an equal opportunity to
participate, a church or religious organization should consider the nature of the event
to which each candidate is invited, in addition to the manner of presentation. For
example, a church or religious organization that invites one candidate to speak at its
well attended annual banquet, but invites the opposing candidate to speak at a
sparsely attended general meeting, will likely be found to have violated the political
campaign prohibition, even if the manner of presentation for both speakers is
otherwise neutral.

Public Forum. Sometimes a church or religious organization invites several
candidates to speak at a public forum. A public forum involving several candidates
for public office may qualify as an exempt educational activity. However, if the
forum is operated to show a bias for or against any candidate, then the forum would
be prohibited campaign activity, as it would be considered intervention or
participation in a political campaign. When an organization invites several
candidates to speak at a forum, it should consider the following factors:



9

Whether questions for the candidate are prepared and presented by an
independent nonpartisan panel,
Whether the topics discussed by the candidates cover a broad range of issues
that the candidates would address if elected to the office sought and are of
interest to the public,
Whether each candidate is given an equal opportunity to present his or her
views on the issues discussed,
Whether the candidates are asked to agree or disagree with positions,
agendas, platforms or statements of the organization, and
Whether a moderator comments on the questions or otherwise implies
approval or disapproval of the candidates.

The following are two examples of situations where a church or religious organization
invites a candidate(s) to speak before the congregation.

Example 5: Minister E is the minister of Church N. In the
month prior to the election, Minister E invited the three
Congressional candidates for the district in which Church N is
located to address the congregation, one each on three successive
Sundays, as part of regular worship services. Each candidate
was given an equal opportunity to address and field questions on
a wide variety of topics from the congregation. Minister Es
introduction of each candidate included no comments on their
qualifications or any indication of a preference for any candidate.
The actions do not constitute political campaign intervention by
Church N.

Example 6: Minister F is the minister of Church O. The Sunday
before the November election, Minister F invited Senate
Candidate X to preach to her congregation during worship
services. During his remarks, Candidate X stated, I am asking
not only for your votes, but for your enthusiasm and dedication,
for your willingness to go the extra mile to get a very large
turnout on Tuesday. Minister F invited no other candidate to
address her congregation during the Senatorial campaign.
Because these activities took place during official church
services they are attributed to Church O. By selectively
providing church facilities to allow Candidate X to speak in
support of his campaign, Church Os actions constitute political
campaign intervention.



10


Speaking as a non-candidate. Like any other IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization, a
church or religious organization may invite political candidates (including church
members) to speak in a non-candidate capacity. For instance, a political candidate may
be a public figure because he or she: (a) currently holds, or formerly held, public office,
(b) is considered an expert in a non-political field, or (c) is a celebrity or has led a
distinguished military, legal, or public service career. When a candidate is invited to
speak at an event in a non-candidate capacity, it is not necessary for the church or
religious organization to provide equal access to all political candidates. However, the
church or religious organization must ensure that:
The individual speaks only in a non-candidate capacity,
Neither the individual nor any representative of the church makes any
mention of his or her candidacy or the election, and
No campaign activity occurs in connection with the candidate's attendance.

In addition, the church or religious organization should clearly indicate the capacity in
which the candidate is appearing and should not mention the individual's political
candidacy or the upcoming election in the communications announcing the candidate's
attendance at the event.

Below are examples of situations where a public official appears at a church or religious
organization in an official capacity, and not as a candidate.

Example 7: Church P is located in the state capital. Minister G
customarily acknowledges the presence of any public officials
present during services. During the state gubernatorial race,
Lieutenant Governor Y, a candidate, attended a Wednesday
evening prayer service in the church. Minister G acknowledged
the Lieutenant Governors presence in his customary manner,
saying, We are happy to have worshiping with us this evening
Lieutenant Governor Y. Minister G made no reference in his
welcome to the Lieutenant Governors candidacy or the election.
Minister Gs actions do not constitute political campaign
intervention by Church P.

Example 8: Minister H is the minister of Church Q. Church Q
is building a community center. Minister H invites
Congressman Z, the representative for the district containing
Church Q, to attend the groundbreaking ceremony for the
community center. Congressman Z is running for reelection at
the time. Minister H makes no reference in her introduction to
Congressman Zs candidacy or the election. Congressman Z
also makes no reference to his candidacy or the election and does
not do any fundraising while at Church Q. Church Q has not
intervened in a political campaign.

Voter Guides

Like other IRC Section 501(c)(3) organizations, some churches and religious organizations
undertake voter education activities by distributing voter guides. Voter guides, generally, are
distributed during an election campaign and provide information on how all candidates stand on



11

various issues. These guides may be distributed with the purpose of educating voters, however,
they may not be used to attempt to favor or oppose candidates for public elected office.

A careful review of the following facts and circumstances may help determine whether or not a
church or religious organizations publication or distribution of voter guides constitute prohibited
political campaign activity.
Whether the candidates positions are compared to the organizations position,
Whether the guide includes a broad range of issues that the candidates would address
if elected to the office sought,
Whether the description of issues is neutral,
Whether all candidates for an office are included, and
Whether the descriptions of candidates positions are either:
o The candidates own words in response to questions, or
o A neutral, unbiased and complete compilation of all candidates positions.

The following are examples of situations where churches distribute voter guides.

Example 9: Church R distributes a voter guide prior to
elections. The voter guide consists of a brief statement from the
candidates on each issue made in response to a questionnaire
sent to all candidates for governor of State I. The issues on the
questionnaire cover a wide variety of topics and were selected by
Church R based solely on their importance and interest to the
electorate as a whole. Neither the questionnaire nor the voter
guide, through their content or structure, indicate a bias or
preference for any candidate or group of candidates. Church R is
not participating or intervening in a political campaign.

Example 10: Church S distributes a voter guide during an
election campaign. The voter guide is prepared using the
responses of candidates to a questionnaire sent to candidates for
major public offices. Although the questionnaire covers a wide
range of topics, the wording of the questions evidences a bias on
certain issues. By using a questionnaire structured in this way,
Church S is participating or intervening in a political campaign.


http://www.americanunitarian.org/Legal/IRS%20Publicatio ...

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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #310
311. Great find - clear violation
but will a bush admin irs do anything about even such an egregious violation?
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #310
371. or public statements of position (verbal or written)
Do we have them? Can we get their tax exempt status revoked based on this?
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
312. groucho
I wouldn't want to join any that would have me as a member.

lol

Sue
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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #312
323. What is is with Waynesville??
My brother lives in Waynesville Ohio, reported to be the most haunted city in the country.
There has been a church there for almost 200 years named "Ferry Road Church of God". A couple of years ago, the preacher and congregation raised money for a new sign, to change the name to "Crossroads Church of God".
They wanted to change the name so "the gays" wouldn't think "Ferry" meant gay, and that they were welcome.
Wouldn't want to have any of "them" sitting next to you in church!!

God is Love..... as long as you are Christian.
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OrlandoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
313. Sounds like a jihad to me.
n/t
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
314. I just sent this link to buzzflash
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #314
316. I decided to host it, too
There are too many messages here to read them all this morning, but I saw that there were some bandwidth issues.

If spiffarino's link gets saturated, I put it on my site, too. It's not linked on the index, yet, but this link works.

http://www.timbuk3.com/wlos.wmv
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #316
322. Yup, me, too.
And Atrios picked up the post from my blog.

http://www.blah3.com

-as
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #314
350. I posted a thread in the forums at RawStory
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
315. The First Fristian Baptist Church of East Waynesville!
Sing Halleluja, All Praise G.W.!
Amen!
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #315
318. Seig Halleluja is more like it
Christians everywhere should be alarmed by this.
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Dob Bole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
320. The expelled members should SUE.....
First of all, Baptist churches have a democratic process. They have bylaws that all of the members have agreed upon. If one of those bylaws does not call for excommunication at all, but especially for political reasons, then they can sue.

In addition, the Pastor is employed by the members of the church. He cannot excommunicate anyone unless the church members have a) formally granted him authority, or b) voted them out themselves.

If the people of that church will sue their way back in, that would serve as a deterrent to this happening in other churches.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #320
604. Their lawyer was there today at church with me and press...
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
332. REAL MEDIA Video File here:
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
333. That doesn't
sound like any Baptist church I ever heard of. For one thing, the preacher doesn't have that kind of authority.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #333
343. But doesn't the preacher run his church the way he wants?
given the recent history of the Southern Baptist Church, this kind of behaviour is within the realm of possibility.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #343
362. No.
Not in the SBC. The church doesn't like the preacher, out he goes. Baptists are the most democratic of all churches. Each church is independent from higher authority. Neither the SBC, nor the state conventins can tell a church what to do. Of course, they can kick them out of the convention. But it wouldn't be done simply on the authority of the officers.

Besides, the are a l ot of different Baptist conventions. Not all of them are SBC. Plus there are many, many independent Baptist churches unaffiliated with any conventions whatsoever.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #362
400. then dont they have a christian obligation to stand up
and speak out. whose responsibility is this hostility to fellow man. mine. cause i assure you, i have done nothing, to no one
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #362
447. "Explain the Baptist Church here...."
AMY GOODMAN: Explain the Baptist Church here. I mean, you're Baptist. Mohler is Baptist. What's the difference?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Well, we both -- we share in common our desire to see God's will done on earth as in heaven. I'm a graduate of the Southern Seminary back in the late 1970s, where our mission at the time was we're out to change the world, which sounds sort of domination-like, but our agenda was to try to follow the way of Jesus, of love, of unity, of hope, casting a different vision, the day when the lion and the lamb lie down together, or the elephant and the donkey lie down together. We work together in love. In the late 1970s there was a takeover. Ostensibly the issue was the Bible, but the real issue was control: who gets to decide how the Bible's interpreted, whether women could be ministers, what the agenda of the Church will be. And slowly, but effectively, they took over the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention. As a result, we're able to appoint trustees, who then appointed Dr. Mohler as president, who completely cleaned house at the seminary. Southern Seminary used to be one of the top ten theological institutions in the world. All of those professors have now been fired or forced out, and --

AMY GOODMAN: On what grounds? On what grounds?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Just on theological grounds, on the grounds that they weren't conforming to the strict literal in their interpretation of the Bible, as is prescribed by Dr. Mohler and the new takeover group. The reason this is important, I think, to your larger audience, as I said earlier, is because this group's agenda now bleeds over, not only into beyond the issue of the Southern Baptist Convention, to our larger culture. That same kind of domination agenda -- which says we're right, you're wrong; we're going to save you from yourself by telling you not only what the Bible says, but now what the Constitution says -- has enormous implications for our democracy.

<snip>

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean disestablishment?

REV. JOSEPH PHELPS: Well, the Constitution, the First Amendment sought to disestablish religion, to not have an established religion. In junior high school, I learned this long word with 28 letters, antidisestablishmentarianism. I never knew what it meant. Now I do. It is Al Mohler and that group. They want to redesign, redefine our nation's history, no longer being disestablishment people, but going back and creating a strict religious theocracy.

<more>

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/05/142...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #333
358. bullshit, sorry pissed of the moment
Edited on Fri May-06-05 08:34 AM by seabeyond
did an end of the year program for 5th and 6th graders last nite at a christian fundie school. teh last preformance, lost all control and told a friend in such relief, man, i am glad i pulled my boys out in nov. after the umpteenth quote from bible out of kids mouth preaching to me.......lordy

to walk home to this article, and cheney saying other faith, and I..I..I..I..I.. want to know exactly what MY vp means by saying i am of the other fuckin faith. i want him to tell me what other faith is NOW........

the woman at the pharmacy attacked

the woman at her HER sisters funeral attack. along with the parents and husband

after last nite and watching these poeple, in this school. and the whole feel of energy. just the grossest

so, i beg to differ. this is exactly the baptist. havent you been watching. i can give example all over. i have walked and watched and listened for 6 years.

how about the head dude in the southern baptist org calling the ministers and telling them to tell their congregation (sheep) that jesus will know how they voted. when it is time for you to face jesus he will pull out election 2004. and that will be the determination of heaven or hell

so to tell me doesnt sound like the baptist, is for me to suggest, you havent been paying attention
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:06 AM
Original message
DUPE
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:08 AM by forgethell
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #358
375. Seeing as how
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:09 AM by forgethell
I am a Baptist, yes, I think I have been paying attention. That being said, it is extremely easy to start a Baptist church, so there are some nut-job ones out there. But to lump all Baptists together like that is bigotry, pure and simple.

On edit: However, Baptist churches do have a long history of splitting over trivial issues, so maybe it does sound like a Baptist church, after all.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #375
392. these baptists are family, my children
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:32 AM by seabeyond
nieces........these are people i love. this is mainstream. this is my community. we have talked and listened for a lot of years.

i am not attacking baptist anymore than i am attacking catholics. this is what baptists are doing. saying. it is NOT on me. i am just giving back to the baptist, what they are saying to me. and i am challenging who they are saying i am. i have that right. i am not challenging the baptist on who they are.

i have a bus in town, painted black with flames, church up the street. hollowed out super grocery store. youth calvary, with youth warriors

this black bus that is all over our town, representing our youth, has a white dove in middle of flames. my 7 years old and 9 year old a bit bothered the white dove was burning. they are sensitive

another mini bus, another church, painted in fatique, bold print GODS ARMY. who are they battling

satan

who is satan

democrat

our religious leaders, and political leaders are saying so

other faith. this is my children. they are other faith. this community does not have the right to do this to my boys. and the baptist should speak out. those that know my boys lite, and say, no baby. but they dont. they validate adn justify and defend this behavior.

and our hearts hurt

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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #358
532. This reminds me of Nazi Germany...
My father-in-law, who was there, was telling us about it just last night. When the German children were "joined up" to be members of Hitler's Youth, it was the children's duty to spy against their own families. If parents didn't approve of their child's membership or of Hitler in particular, the kids were taught to tell on them. They became the children of Der Fuhrer, were literally adopted by the state, and their parents were sent to "indoctrination" (read "extermination") camps.

IS THIS WHERE AMERICA IS HEADED?????????????????????????????? :grr:

This whole thing gives me MAJOR creeps. I am Christian, but I feel like these people are reading a different Bible than I am.
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
338. It seems to me You WOUDN'T WANT TO BELONG to that kind of a church!
so those member are better off. But that said, it's obvious that this particular church is deeply involved into politics, and thus should be investigated and loose it's tax exampt status.
What official body investigates "Discrimination" inside a religious order?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #338
361. of course they are better off, that is not the point n/t
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
340. Demonstrations anyone?
Here's a perfect opportunity for NC folks to round up bunches of friends (from all over the country, if anyone can make the trip)

and stand outside their church with signs branding them bigots, hatemongers, and Pharisees.

Anyone up for it? I'm afraid I'm a little far away, but I'd love to see huge crowds there-- more than the number of parishioners.
FSC
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #340
482. I'M UP FOR IT & I'M IN ASHEVILLE: contact me backchannel plz
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
345. Thread continued here:
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
347. Is there a proper link yet?
I'd love to spread this little hot potato around.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #347
348. Check out the home page. Skinner posted a couple there,
but they can't be found in this thread.

Let's mind other's bandwidth--I think Skinner's link is probably the best one to use.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
349. This is not good, but it's a church. They can exclude anyone they want.
This is why it's so critical that church and state stay separated.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #349
356. Exactly and the same people
are pushing judges and laws which will be in violation of the constitution. At some point, the REAL patriots are going to have to stand up.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #349
367. Explain, in detail, how this ISN'T a political act?
They didn't expel these people for an expressed belief in abortion or gay rights--they expelled them for their POLITICAL party affiliation.

If they expelled them for the former--no problem, whether I like it or not. For the latter--bye, bye tax-exempt status.
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ElaineinIN Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #367
495. Its not just any political act
But its intervention in a political campaign, so its crucial to find out exactly what he said and how he said it.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #349
428. They CANNOT demand you to vote a certain way and remain tax exempt
so this is a violation of IRS code.

IRS requirements allow them to talk about ISSUES not politics
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #349
445. Yes and No.
Anyone can be asked to leave a congregation, but when it is predicated on how you voted in an election than the clergy and the church has crossed a very important line. Excommunications based on political affiliation should result in immediate revokation of tax-exempt status as a religious organization. Given the statutes I really don't see anyway around that other than turning a blind eye. Which at this time is probably the most likely course of action to be pursued. As a minister I am beyond disgusted.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #349
519. AU: JOIN us: Americans United for Separation of Church and STate
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
355. And I'm proud to be a Humanistic Jew,
where at least I know I'm free!

(No apologies to Lee Greenwood)
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #355
550. Hey Bullwinkle, welcome to DU
from a fellow Iowan. And while I may not agree with the Jewish faith, I certainly respect your right to practice it. And at least you know you're free. Incidentally, my faith is tarnished, but I was raised as a Presbyterian, and a staunch Democrat. Never, ever did the church I attended throw anyone out because of political beliefs.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
366. Look at the station
Edited on Fri May-06-05 09:05 AM by melissinha
You will find that WLOS is part of the Sinclair Broadcasting.... you won't find the story.....

Keep searching for this to leak in the corporate media.

Did you see that video???? Those are senior citizens... at least the gentleman who was interviewed was.... Some if not most of these people have probably always been Democrats or if not, had really debated on voting for *.... Nontheless I do hope that these indivuals will be welcomed into an alternate place to worship.

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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #366
453. From the WLOS site:
Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.

East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.


(posted at 7:30am, 5/6/05)
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mpendragon Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
373. this is probably for the best
I think Jesus left that place a long time ago.
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
374. Shouldn't they be allowed to expel anyone they want?
If the cloud-being who establishes a church says that he doesn't want Klansman worshiping in HIS house, why would that a violation of the organizations tax-exempt status?
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #374
414. Suggestion
Read the original message, it's obvious that you missed part of it.

According to the e-mail:

"She said that before the election, the preacher told the congregation form the pulpit that if they didn't vote for Bush they
had to come to the altar to confess their sins and repent. They couldn't be members."

The preacher used the pulpit for political reasons, and that is what needs to be investigated.

As for the membership of Klansmen, I don't really believe that some of these churches think that being in the Klan is a bad thing. I'll bet that Klansmen were probably leading members of a lot of churches in the South at one time.

Maybe you can enlighten the rest of us and tell us exactly what sin the people who were excommunicated committed?
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #374
416. Perhaps because Klansmen aren't nationally elected offices?
Edited on Fri May-06-05 10:49 AM by Norquist Nemesis
:shrug:
(oops! edit to correct to "aren't")

We've really gone over the top in giving up our rights as individuals in this country. How is it a free society when a church is within its rights to expel members based on their politics? How is it a free society when an employer can fire an employee based on the employee's political beliefs (except in 5 states, it's legal to do so)?

And it's not just pure politics. Pharmacists refusing to dispense legal medications to individuals based on the pharmacist's beliefs is now perfectly fine. People's cars getting keyed for a bumber sticker and being told by law enforcement that, essentially, they should have known better. Employers firing long-term employees for refusing to take a drug test for nicotine, not to mention refusing to even hire a smoker.

And all of this is just fine and dandy because "they have a right to do so."
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #374
429. Yes..they can't coerce their membership to vote for a politician
and remain tax exempt.
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
376. Story on WLOS website
WLOS, the Asheville, NC ABC affiliate, finally has the story on their website, but it's incredibly brief and does not have a lot of details. How very typical of the MSM...

The link: http://www.wlos.com (Click "News" on the left and this is the first story on the list)

The text:

Religion and Politics Clash
Religion and politics clash over a local church's declaration that Democrats are not welcome.


East Waynesville Baptist asked nine members to leave. Now 40 more have left the church in protest. Former members say Pastor Chan Chandler gave them the ultimatum, saying if they didn't support George Bush, they should resign or repent. The minister declined an interview with News 13. But he did say "the actions were not politically motivated." There are questions about whether the bi-laws were followed when the members were thrown out.


(posted at 7:30am, 5/6/05)
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
377. Pass this one on, it's a horrific nightmare. N/T
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nytemare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
378. Well, can someone say "tax free no more?"
What could have possessed them to do that???

This needs to get to the local tax offices and this would be a good story for Keith Olbermann!
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snowbird42 Donating Member (240 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
381. Check this site to contact
http://www.main.nc.us /

this is an alternative progressive site in Asheville Good people to contact
I live near there is Tn and Im shocked
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #381
483. ITS ROLLING THUNDER REVIEW & folks
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #381
485. I contacted moderator
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Brooklyn Michael Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
383. Holy Flurking Schnit!
I've got no other comment for this....

:wow:
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
388. I posted a new thread with a Diary from georgia10 at DailyKos which
has action items and ways to contact people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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jasmeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
389. I left a message on their machine---LONG beep
I asked them if they felt at all hypocritical about supporting a president who kills innocent people abroad and tortures innocent men, women and children. I told them I hope the IRS gets a hold of this. I don't really know how to do that. Does anyone here know how one would file a complaint?
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big peaches Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
390. Jesus wept.
n/t
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nytemare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
393. Springer is on it
Yay!
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
395. Jerry Springer just mentioned this on his program, 10:38 am ET, 5-6-05.
It's getting around now.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #395
417. Mike Malloy mentioned it on his show last night. So he was the first
to speak of it on AAR. (thanks to a DUer) :-)
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #417
426. Great! Hope Franken, Shultz and Rhodes will address today.
We are the media now.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #426
448. I sent it to Randi at about six this morning.
she probably saw it over her morning coffee.

-as
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
397. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
406. Hope The Cast-Outs Took Their Tithes and Pledges With Them
I hope that the cast-out congregants of that church remember to take their tithes and pledges with them. A church of that sort doesn't deserve their financial support and any subsequent whining for money from that place's vestry to ostracized parishioners should be firmly rejected.
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oneold1-4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #406
584. They should even SUE the CHURCH
For all the donations made to a false church, in both time and money!
"They've got to hurt a lot before they make any change!"
This goes for all wrongful anti-christian action churches and their philosophies, from the biggest to the smallest!
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
407. My Take on This
My theory is that this is a test to see if the IRS will do its job and apply the law.

I believe that this minister was approached by the Xtian Taliban, and promised support to do what he did. This could be their way of
seeing if they truly do control the current administration, if one
little podunk church goes down, it's no big loss.

But if they get away with it, if the feds don't bother to even investigate then it will become an acceptable practice across the country. It will start with the conservative Baptists and then spread to every denomination that is already divided, creating a schism.

The first shot has been fired in the war, and we didn't do it. But we better be prepared to finish it, and to win.
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #407
410. I have the same take on this...
My first thought is that the religous war is here within our country and you said it right, the first shot was fired.\

If this is allowed, it's begun.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
408. 828-456-6842
They are not answering their phone,answering machine will not allow you to leave a message either. I will keep calling till I get thru to ask them if this is true. If it is, God help us all.....
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
409. As soon as we can locate this in print, I will report the violation to
Americans United for Separation of Church and State. They will file a complaint to the IRS.


http://www.au.org/site/Survey?SURVEY_ID=1120&ACTION_REQ...
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #409
413. I sent this to Americans United for Separation of Church and State,
but it would probably be better if someon from NC would also report it.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #413
487. MY GROUP: in ASHEVILLE: they're on it: lead contact person:
Phillip: 828 699 5521
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
411. Jesus H. Christ!! That's my state
and Waynesville was next to Asheville and Brevard. I can't believe it. North Carolina! How dreadful, just dreadful. I'm sorry.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
412. I live an hour from Asheville...
Parts of Asheville are very liberal (lots of crystal clutching colon cleansers, mainly in the downtown, Pack Square part of town) but the rest of Ashveille is your typical southern, redneck, NASCAR, Baptist Bible Thumpers. Waynesville, a little farther west, is a very conservative little town.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #412
490. Paprush: am trying to contact you re: protest this Sunday
my cell: 404 964 5338; I'm in Asheville
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Yellow_Dog Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
415. Local print media is mum?
Well apparently it is now clear where the printed media stand on the topic of religion and politics, they endorse it.

There is not a single mention of this story (in paper or website) in the Asheville Citizen Times which is less than 30 miles east of Waynesville, nor is there mention in the local Waynesville paper's website The Mountaineer
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #415
418. Welcome Yellow Dog!
:hi:

I think you're observation is likely spot on.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #415
419. The Mountaineer's website is notoriously slow
to post updated stories. The paper is a non-daily only published on Mon Wed and Fri.

The Citizen-Times ought to have something...
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #415
463. Could it be that they don't really care?
They are probably Bush supporters so it doesn't really concern them. Of course, if this was a church that expelled republican voters because they voted Bush, then it would more than likely become urgent breaking news.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #463
475. I KNOW the local fish wrap doesn't care
And it would be interesting to find out if the Waynesville 9 went to the wannbe journalists at ye olde Mountaineer first and were ignored...I know (too much) about some of the people who work for that paper. It's a mixture of fresh outta college numbskulls and an overzealous stepford wife-esque editorial staff. The paper is owned by a republican too.

Nope, their silence doesn't surprise me one little bit.
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RedstDem Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
422. Where Am I Going ?
& Why Am I In This Handbasket

Sorry Of Making Light Of Something As Seriously Wrong As This, But It's Too Far Over The Top For Me To Get My Brain Around...

Simply Unbelievable.
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Robworld Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
424. WOW! I really dont know what to say about this...
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
425. So far, Google News "East Waynesville Baptist Church" = 0 hits...
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
433. A shit place like that didn't have any dems anyway.
Who are they kidding?
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
434. It's very reminiscent of the "period of the witches"
before the 1800 election, when the "French faction" (Jefferson, Madison, Franklin) and the "British faction" (Adams, Hamilton, Washington) were divided to the point of violence. It's also something like Sarajevo before all hell broke out.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
435. Why do I feel the need to buy a couple weapons (defe