The next step: Convincing Americans we should pull out of Iraq now

[bluestateguy]

It now appears that we have won the battle to convince the American people that the Iraq War was wrong and/or that it was a gross mistake of American foreign policy. The public opinion polls make this all clear.

Still, a stubborn majority of American still seem uncomfortable with the idea that the US should rapidly pull out of Iraq, lest they feel like we are "cutting and running". Many Americans perhaps feel that a quick pullout would be an even greater humiliation than the daily killings of US soldiers and Marines. The idea that the US should stay in Iraq to somehow bring stability to that country is still the mainstream popular view. The idea that "we're there, right or wrong" and thus we have a duty to rebuild Iraq is still supported by an American majority.

Now the task is to convince people that the above-mentioned objectives will not be served by an endless occupation, but rather, that the US should expeditiously leave Iraq. That is the least bad (though not flawless) option right now.

[smiley]

1. the ultimate goal is to set a center stage....

for world energy domination for the next century. We won't leave Iraq.

[Swamp Rat]

2. That's right

Our oil is under their sand.

[Tsiyu]

7. Beautiful!

The witch herself!

I hope you are collecting all of these lovely portraits for a little commemorative poster book. Even though we may not want to remember these days, I will cherish your interpretation of them, my dear Swamp Rat :hug:

[Swamp Rat]

13. brigado

:hug:

[many a good man]

3. Let's try using common sense

or honesty.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1763500&mesg_id=1763500

[Lexingtonian]

4. I wouldn't bother

Here's the politics of American popular opposition to the Iraq business to my analysis-

8%: (Far Left) Oppose anything the other side of the political spectrum wants.

8%-32%: (Hardcore Democrats) Object to the predicate illegality, barbarity of warmongering, vanity, and comprehensively bad excuses for the enterprise.

33%-43%: (Soft Democrats) Felt betrayed by the absence of WMDs and the bungling idiocy/corruption to the occupation evident early on.

44-57%: (Nonpartisan voters) See the "insurgency" rising and none of what they were promised happening, and so can't figure out what makes American casualties worthwhile. Iraqi 'democracy' seemed too optimistic to them all along.

**this is where the polling shows popular opposition at: 57%**

58%-67%: ('moderate' Republicans) Will go over to opposition as Bush's last positive justification of the venture- the 'democratic government' of Iraq- fails. Bush still refuses to withdraw and claims the Iraqis want American troops to stay to prevent social collapse.

68%-91%: (Hardcore Republicans) The Iraqi factions disinvite the U.S. occupation and civil war begins. Italy and Britain bail out, the Coalition disintegrates. (Maybe the U.N. rescinds the relevant resolutions.) The True Believers finally crack and Bush is out of excuses and political cover. The U.S. withdraws.

last 8%: (Far Right) Don't care about the facts, just hate it when Democrats get proven right. Blame the U.N., 'traitor' Americans, etc.

++++++++++

Basically, polling says the job now is to get moderate Republicans to oppose the thing. I recommend advertising Iraqi factions' preparations for civil war and the crumbling of the 'democratic government', few of whose members seem to have delusions about future.

[Disturbed]

5. It seems that the U.S. will pull a lot of troops out before..

the U.S. Congressional '06 Elections. Around 50K will stay on those 14 permanent bases. The only way all troops and U.S. Corps would pull out is that the Shi'ites and Kurds demand it and if that doesn't happen with a few months of the demand the attacks will commence.

[Lexingtonian]

8. don't believe the propaganda

The Shia want the Americans out already. They have to wait until the 'democratic government' fails and then they'll go to the U.N. with the Sunnis to get the American 'mandate' revoked as unwilling/unable to provide them with reasonable indigenous government and prolonging their occupation to steal oil revenues. They'll ask for a UN occupation ('peacekeeping') force. By themselves the Kurds simply aren't enough of a faction to demand an American military occupation of all of Iraq, should they want it, and they aren't in a big hurry to hand Halliburton more of their oil revenues either.

The 14 Bases all depend on there being a pupp- oops, I meant: 'democratic'- government in Baghdad. I wouldn't worry about military scenarios; the international political cover is far more crucial. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are far less physically permanent than advertised, too- if there's a place for private contractors to steal money shamelessly, it's military construction projects in chaotic wartorn countries.

[LynnTheDem]

6. It's unfortunate so many Americans have "white man's burden" syndrome

I realize many leftys mean well, when they say we can't leave coz Iraq would fall into civil war, things would get worse etc.

But what that's REALLY saying is ONLY WE can prevent that; the IRAQIS CANNOT PREVENT IT. The Iraqis AREN'T CAPABLE like we are.

Like it or not, that is what you're really saying when you say "we can't leave".

And that's just such total BULLSHITE.

FACTS;

Iraq is the IRAQIS' NATION.

The majority of Iraqis WANT US OUT.

We were capable enough to deal, BY OURSELVES, with the American revolution and the Civil war; SO ARE THE IRAQIS capable of dealing with THEIR own nation.

Iraqis have been in Iraq for CENTURIES and during those centuries, they have been through MANY civil wars and upheavels; they KNOW how to take care of themselves.

Prior to the US draconian sanctions against Iraq, Iraq had more PhDs per capita than any other nation in the world; they are NOT stupid little "children".

WE ARE WHAT'S CAUSING THE CHAOS.

How many more deaths on all sides is it going to take for Americans to get that fact through their heads???

And the bottom line; IRAQIS WANT US OUT PERIOD.
Just FOR ONCE let us do the right thing, and do what the IRAQIS want us to do!

YES we should pay every single penny it will cost THE IRAQIS to rebuild Iraq.

But WE should not be war profiteering and rebuilding it ourselves; the IRAQIS ARE NOT STUPID LITTLE CHILDREN and are more than capable of rebuilding their own country.

AMERICA GO HOME!!! For the sake and by the will of the IRAQIS!

[Disturbed]

9. Of course. Lynn.

The Bush Junta doesn't give a damn about Iraqis, Hell they don't about non-wealthy Amerikans, either. Sure, the Shias aren't in love with the U.S. Occupation but al Sistani has a lot of patiance. He pushed for the elections and if the U.S. doesn't meet his requirements, whatever those may be, he may call for his followers to force the U.S. out. btw most Dems in Congress support the Occupation and the Bush Junta agenda on Iraq.

[LynnTheDem]

10. Oh yeah I know bush doesn't give a flying about the Iraqis. Hell, he

doesn't give a flying about us!

He plans to stay, come hell or high water or the deaths of every single US soldier in Iraq.

But we're talking here about convincing WE THE PEOPLE. And there, I think it's important to realize that most of the WE mean well and feel very guilty. But they must be made to see that REFUSING to the Iraqis' request to GET OUT, by treaating the Iraqis as stupid little children who must have Big American Momma and Poppa to guide them, is bloody insulting to the Iraqis.

Imagine how we would feel. My head starts pounding just thinking about some nation destroying America and then insisting, despite US majority to the contrary, that they MUST stay and rebuild America for us, if they left, we Americans would just kill each other in a civil war!

ARRRRRRRRRGH the ARROGANCE just imagining that PISSES ME OFF!!!

YES we should be supplying whatever materials, expertise and money Iraqis require to rebuild what we destroyed. But THEY should be doing the rebuilding and the profiting. NOT US.

And hey...the Iraqis agree with me. ;)

[MrPrax]

14. Ah...Thank YOU!!

I scanned through 4 or 5 posts in GD by 'DU'ers' on this topic, I am glad someone pointed out the 'racist' underpinning to their immoral position.

Most seem to have forgotten that the war was illegal and immoral by any yardstick you can use; moreover I can not even thing of a similar analogy where, once a crime has been committed, the criminal is allowed so much latitude after the fact.

[DemBeans]

16. well said, Lynn

Your post is right on the mark, and it's just so frustrating that we can't get every talking point you've listed out to the general public.

You also correctly summarize the racism that permeates our Iraq policy by citing the "White Man's Burden" phrase. Just who do they think built Iraq in the first place? Did they need Big Daddy America to do it? NO.

Unfortunately, the government has been forced to take on this role of protector in order to hide their real agenda for the occupation. What's critical now is to strip away the false agenda, or the public will never be able to drill down to the real one.

[CWebster]

11. "...We have a duty to rebuild Iraq" is a ruse used

to legitimize the Occupation--just like we all knew the WMD threat was a hoax, and when that bottomed out, the "liberation" and introduction of "Democracy" ploy was pitched.

It is just part of the same appeal to that arrogant and naive nationalism that is so vulnerable to superior moral righteousness.

[deutsey]

12. Some resources, targets for action

I went to the Maryland United for Peace and Justice conference last weekend and heard Medea Benjamin of Code Pink speak. It was great hearing her and the conference really revived my sagging energy for anti-war actions (I've been extremely active in protesting Bush and his militarism since the first inauguration in 2001).

Medea said just what you say here: we need to begin driving home the costly realities of this occupation. She targeted three main areas that need mobilization immediately:

Support the Woolsey Resolution to withdraw US troops from Iraq (http://coastalrain.tripod.com/wmfso/id25.html)

Begin to prepare for anti-war demonstrations in the fall (she wasn't able to give dates yet)

Counter-Recruitment Campaign: the military's recruitment efforts are consistantly falling short of goals; this campaign can help perpetuate this trend. At the very least we need to get into the schools and provide alternative information to the hard-sell lies recruiters are foisting onto kids.

You can also start highlighting how much Iraq is costing us...certainly in terms of human life, but also in economic terms. Go to www.Nationalpriorities.org and www.costofwar.com

These resources can be used to show what could have been done nationally on down to your county with the billions of dollars the invasion and occupation is costing us.

Here are some other resources:

http://www.nisbco.org/
http://www.militaryfreeschools.org/
www.ivaw.net
www.girights.org
www.objector.org
www.sldn.org (gay and lesbian rights in the military)
www.volunteerabroad.org

[LoZoccolo]

15. I think the best way to convince them...

...is out-and-out accusation. We need to impress upon them that the issue is whether or not they are a blood-thirsty war-mongering killer, and not the stability of the region and the best way to go about it. It's a matter of whether you are a good person or an evil one, not a practical estimate about the results of this action or that.

Remember, we're the experts on this, we on the Internet message boards, and not the Democrats in office.

_{NOTE: This post is sarcastic.}