Why are women always identified by what comes out of their wombs?

[efhmc]

"Grandmother stuck in tub for five days." do you think if this had been a male it would have said, "Grandfather stuck in tub..." or "Elderly man...". Unless the headline directly pertains to something to do with ones children, men are IDed in other ways and women are always, "Mother (not bookkeeper or whatever) of 4 caught in crack/cocaine ring." While the father of those 4 same children would be listed as, "Farmer caught in crack/cocaine ring." If motherhood is so important as an occupation that it supercedes all others then where are the rewards and the real respect and benefits in this society?

[Mandate My Ass]

1. Good observation

Our society does not respect motherhood in any meaningful manner, it's all lip service.

[efhmc]

2. Must it always be this way?

[theboss]

3. Eh...depends on the woman

I think if you asked my grandmother to identify what she is she would say "A grandmother."

My mother would probably describe herself as a "teacher."

If I were stuck in a tub, I would be called "Drinker."

[efhmc]

13. Funny. So you think the woman IDed herself to the paper as a

Grandmother? I'll bet you a bundle that she was not given a choice.

[TWiley]

4. It is a way to shame and alienate those who have not given birth.

After all, we must reproduce for the state, or be subjected to sterotype and discrimination.

[Redstone]

5. "must reproduce for the state?"

Funny, nobody ever told Mrs R she had to do that. Do you think her orders might have gotten lost in the mail?

Redstone

[efhmc]

10. Well, I guess her identity in this society is shot.

[TWiley]

14. This is the focus of the evangelical conservatives.

In their minds, those who do not have children or are not married do not "deserve" training, promotions, or overtime work.

It is the whole "focus on the family thing" you know, "families first", oh I mean "families who want to control media content" gang, no wait, it was the "families who support the sanctity of marriage crowd", on second thought, it was the "conservative families who support a christian nation coalition".

Actually though, if you are in or beyond the thirties and have not reproduced then you are not "schit".

[efhmc]

8. You know there is truth in that and it is quite harmful to those who wish

to have children and cannot or those who decide not to.

[TWiley]

15. Yes, and it is also frames the argument against homosexual marriage.

If you have not heard this particular argument yet, then you will eventually.

"The purpose of being married is to have children

"Homosexuals cannot reproduce and attempt to define marriage as a close emotional relationship"

"You can have a close emotional relationship with a dog"

"Therefore homosexuals cannot be married by definition (consummation), and to allow it would eventually condone bestiality and marriage to animals."


I have literally heard this argument on church radio, and even read the same argument (contextually that is) right here on DU.

[efhmc]

27. My daughter's lesbians friends just had their 2nd child through Artificial

Ins. and another couple (men) just had a baby through surrogacy. So where do they fit in this scheme? In the case of the woman, one cannot even argue that the children are not the mom's, since they came from her body. And when the adoption is final, the guys will be legally parents also.

[TWiley]

50. I am not sure.

I do not subscribe to the argument that I refereed do, I have just been engaged with it.

The conservatives have been battling adoption by homosexuals for years, and they also display a certain hatred for single mothers.

Your daughters friends would blur their lines, and that would not make your average black and white thinker nervous.

At the end of the day though, I believe lesbians with children would be condemned by the right wing as there is no traditional "father figure" in the family. They do take their paternalism very seriously and would defend it strenuously if pushed.

[NYC2099]

6. she was called a grandmother because...

grandmothers are the greatest & coolest people on the planet!!!!! Growing up as a kid, I always looked forward to visiting grandma.

[efhmc]

9. As a gmother, I must agree we are the coolest folks on the planet but

as you well know that is not the point. Being stuck in a bathtub has nothing to do with ones reproductive products or ablilites.

[lukasahero]

52. Wow, so I guess I'll never be "coolest" or "greatest"

Women are the among the coolest people around whether or not they have children or grandchildren. The choice of the word grandmother was made to elicit an emotional response, suggesting that, just like you do, grandmothers are better (more valuable) than non-mothers simply because they have (grand)-children.

[JerseygirlCT]

7. Good point. nt

[readmoreoften]

11. very good observation n/t

[coffeenap]

12. And maritial status: Miss or Mrs.--this very first thing you see on

an official list--if you see Ms. it is used as a replacement for Miss.
I have considered making a mailing list that says: Married John Smith; Unmarried Steve Smith; etc.: Dear Married Smith, blah, blah, blah...

[efhmc]

29. We see MS. on all legal documents now. We fought hard for that one but

what I want is to see all marital titles done away with, except for very formal social occasion.

[RevCheesehead]

16. Yeah, it's like everyone needs to point out I'm a woman.

You know, RevCheesehead, the woman minister?

And heaven forbid, anyone try to identify me by what comes out of MY womb. They'd get "RevMenses."

[Karenina]

17. It's all about

"production values." Schedule the sweetening for next week. Call David Nadien! ;-)

[Kathryn7]

18. I think it's the sympathy factor. More people care about Grandma stuck in

a tub, more than just any woman. Most women can get out by themselves.

[efhmc]

24. Well, then would they say grandpa about a man? So gmother is more

sympathetic?

[lukasahero]

53. So a 90 year old woman who is not a grandmother

can get out of a tub more easily than a 90 year old grandmother?

[leftofthedial]

19. because nothing comes out of men that is worth mentioning

[all.of.me]

28. ROFL!!!!! How true!!!

[beam me up scottie]

45. ROFL! Not according to them!!!

:rofl:

[Hugin]

55. How true!

Kids say the darnedest things.

I have a story along these lines...

One day a girlfriend of mine, her son, and I were sitting
on her back patio... Her son was in a mood. Crashing around
and generally being a terror. She finally had to speak up
and told him several times to stop.

His reply, "That's what you get for having a uterus."

We both were shocked at first because this was so out
of character for her son. Then we laughed so hard we
couldn't stop for several minutes.

To this day we don't know where he got that. But, looking
back it's one of my fondest memories. Kind of true too.

[nonconformist]

20. I think it's to entice an emotional response

"elderly woman murdered" will make most stop in their tracks, but "elderly grandmother murdered" probably hits you right in the gut, because it makes you think of your own frail little grandma or something. This is also true in the case of crime.

It's about emotion and shock value - ie: entertainment, the apparent purpose of our media.

On the flip side, I'd argue that it's less about measuring a woman's worth by motherhood than it is about discounting a man's worth by fatherhood. Fathers are too often viewed as optional participants in childrearing - I cringe every time a man is gushed with praise for changing a diaper or called a "babysitter" for his own children.

[efhmc]

32. I think you are probably right about the emotional response. Another

poster said the same. I feel that parenting is important and without good parents, just look at what we get for pres. I just do not think it should be ones only measure as a person.

[Kathryn7]

43. Not the only measure of a person, just a very endearing one.

[geniph]

21. It's slowly - very slowly - changing

when they HAVE another profession to put in the headline, they generally use it. Gramma may not have had a profession to put in the headline.

It's still true, though, that even an unemployed male, or one who stays home with the kids, is rarely id'ed in a newspaper article as "father" or "househusband," at least, not at the same rate that women are id'ed as "mother" or "housewife." The only time I see men identified specifically as "father" or "husband" in newspaper headlines is when they've just shot their wife and kids (and generally self as well).

[efhmc]

31. Hope you are right about it changing. I don't see it.

[BringEmOn]

22. I thought this was about the slime that oozed out of Babs Bush.

[efhmc]

26. Now that really is a gross way to be identified. Although Babs is quite

proud of her little vermin.

[WildEyedLiberal]

23. I am reminded of a similar odious practice that my hometown paper does

In the Obituary section, woman are only identified by their actual NAMES if they were unmarried. Otherwise - WITHOUT EXCEPTION - it's Mrs. Thomas Jones, or Mrs. Andrew Cox, or whatever. This goes for women young and old, women with or without careers. Mrs. (Husband's name here). It strips the woman of any identity and reduces her to simply being her husband's wife. It's so sad and demeaning to these poor women. It trivializes their worth and value as people.

I swear to God, though I don't plan on living in that little town when I'm an adult, I WILL NOT let them print my Mom's obituary as "Mrs. John Jones." I won't. She has a NAME and an IDENTITY seperate from my Dad, and I want everyone to know it. And if any paper does that to ME when I die, I'll come back and haunt their office water cooler.

[efhmc]

25. Good God that is archaic. Doesn't anyone ever protest? I wrote the

information for my 93 year old mil and believe me it did not say her name that way.

[all.of.me]

30. yeah, usually the family or the funeral home writes the obits

does this newspaper edit them so they women are homogenous and identity-less?

[WildEyedLiberal]

34. Varies

Some have generic obits, some have really long personalized ones. Every now and then I see a woman's name mentioned; it must have been at the specific request of the family, just like my mother's and grandmother's will be - I won't let them depersonalize my mom and grandma.

I mean, I live in a small, rural town, so it's true that lots of older women in their 80s or 90s didn't work outside the home really. That does not mean that they should be stripped of identity, however. They had friends and family who loved them and cherished them as the individuals they were.

[all.of.me]

35. i agree

i wasn't disagreeing at all! i feel the way you do about women having names. i just thought it was up to the family or funeral home to write the thing, and that it was up to the family to 'ok' it.

i live in a small town, but thank god, it is very alternative and progressive. we don't see that archaic practice of mrs john jones.

i hope you can effect some change in your town!

[WildEyedLiberal]

37. Oh, I know you were agreeing with me

Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression that I was arguing with you! No one in my immediate family has passed away since my grandmother when I was 5, so I don't know what the obit process is. The headline, I know, is the paper's responsibility, since I know I've never been to a funeral that had placards like that.

The paper's editors are idiots, too. One of them is a liberal who hates Bush, but he's an arrogant bastard who wouldn't take any criticism (I know because I interned for him in high school). And I don't plan on living in the town, so I doubt things will change... but I will make damn sure they don't do that to my family when the time comes.

[nonconformist]

42. That's always struck me too

I've been married for almost 11 years and not once have I referred to myself as Mrs. Hubby Nonconformist. It just seems so flipping weird. Like... that's referring to ME but there isn't a piece of ME in it. First and foremost, I am an individual. I'm also a mother, and a wife, and this and that but all require *me*.

I do know, however, that some women (mostly elderly) prefer to refer to themselves that way in a very formal situation. When we've had family members pass away, we wrote the obituary ourselves, so I assume those listed as such chose that (or their family members did). Weird you say without exception though... I guess it's just the tradition in your town.

Like a lot of things of this nature, this trend seems to be fortunately dying out in most areas with the older generation.

[WildEyedLiberal]

49. I have noticed that they do it even when middle aged women die, though

A mother of one of my high school friends died of cancer, and her obituary was Mrs. Husband's Name, which, while I'm sure she loved her husband, doesn't strike me as how she would have referred to herself, and I can't think the family chose that, either.

Yeah, the creepy part about it is that it's *every* woman who dies, again, with an exception every odd now and then. It strikes me as very disrespectful to the individuality of the women.

[Cleita]

33. My husband was called grandpa rather regularly by

people, who didn't know us, although he never had grandchildren so I don't think it's as sexist as you think. I agree that newspapers should use better discretion in how they label people.

[Scout]

36. If motherhood is so important as an occupation that it supercedes all othe

If motherhood was REALLY such a great job, men would have it. And it would be well-paid, with tangible benefits, and club memberships.

[Fescue4u]

39. Motherhood is not a job

//If motherhood was REALLY such a great job,//

Its a role in life. One that think is more important and has more impact on the world than any paying job.

same thing with fatherhood.

What I do for money during the day won't mean shit 40 years...and most days it won't mean much in 12 months either.

but the choices I make as a father (and my wife as a mother), have a direct impact on the kind of adults my children will be in 40 years...and has an indirect impact kind of parents they will be.

[Fescue4u]

38. Grandmother is a term of endearment

As well as a fact.

I suppose they could have said "fat old lady stuck in tub", but that would be a little demeaning.

[Bunny]

40. But would you expect to see a headline: Grandpa stuck in tub?

You'd probably see Man Stuck in Tub, or Elderly Man Stuck in Tub. That's the point.

[Fescue4u]

41. I wouldnt rule it out.

But I agree you are more likely to see the other headlines that you suggested.

Which leads me to believe that people are more compassionate to grandmothers and mothers than to fathers and grandfathers

[Kathryn7]

44. Grandmas and much more sympathetic figures. Grandpas can be grumps.

[Cleita]

48. How about "woman stuck in tub"? Seems to be

that would be sufficient.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. What I don't like are vulgar names that refer to women:

Son of a *****
Mother******

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. Well, it could be worse

In some Arab countries, a woman is no longer referred to by her given name after she has a son. Everyone addresses her as "Mother of Omar" or "Mother of Ali" or whatever her oldest son's name is.

[MollyStark]

51. I'll take my 25 years of back pay thank you very much

If motherhood is so important as an occupation that it supercedes all others then where are the rewards and the real respect and benefits in this society?

[NYC2099]

54. women have children not because it benefits them financially...

but because of their exceeding love that they want to share towards a new life!!! Unfortunately mothers/grandmother do not get the respect they deserve in todays world.