The Catholic church takes a giant leap back to the 12th Century

[devilgrrl]

Prep the comfy chair, let the Inquisition begin again.

[Deja Q]

1. I saw a church sign reading something to the effect of 'Marriage is

theblessing of God'.

Whatever cack it was, it was anything but specific via "man + woman" but I instantly thought of "man + man is okay to kill." I'll be in the area shortly again and will take a snapshot...

[dflprincess]

27. Interesting attitude toward marriage

when you consider the Church's general attitude toward sex. My Mom, who is a much better Catholic than I, has said she knew of several marriages that were ruined by the attitudes toward sex and birth control. And, in most cases, the couple stayed together because of the rules on divorce, just making themselves and their children even more miserable.

[stray cat]

2. Aren't his views similar to the previous Pope?

[Boomer]

3. Yup, same views

Just without the charismatic sugar coating that helped Catholics swallow some of his more bitter actions.

[Javaman]

28. The last pope looked like the Gerber baby

[CatholicEdHead]

4. He was behind the past 4 1/2 years

radical turn to the right of the church as JPII got older and older. Ratingzer was the proxy-pope behind the curtain.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

5. JP II used to be more liberal. As his health faded, he became more

conservative. Being that Ratzinger was his no.1 confidant, I would say that things he probably controlled a lot the last few years. But now you have the full force.

[Misunderestimator]

34. Exactly what I was thinking.

He made a hard right-turn at the end, and it was also when he wrote most vehemently and toxically about the evils of homosexuality. Good observation!

[regnaD kciN]

8. Actually, he's more of a hard-liner...

He was the main traditionalist voice at the Vatican urging JPII to take a more conservative line. Sometimes JPII went along, sometimes he didn't.

Now he gets to be the only voice that matters.

:scared:

[Melynn]

24. I thought that JPII and Ratzinger played Good priest/Bad priest

JPII was the charming, warm person with the common touch. Ratzinger was the mean one who wouldn't allow any dissent to the Church's teaching. They probably made a good team but now their is no one to play the role of the good priest.

[TeeYiYi]

6. World News: Ratzinger's Election of Pope Is ''Devastating''

• DISCIPLINED NUN SPEAKS OUT | 3:08 p.m. ET

A Roman Catholic nun in Maryland who was ordered by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger to stop ministering to gays and lesbians tells the Associated Press that his election as pope is "devastating" for those who believe the Catholic Church needs to be more tolerant on social issues such as homosexuality.

Sister Jeannine Gramick says the choice of Ratzinger, who as the Vatican's guardian of doctrine silenced her and Father Robert Nugent in a 1999 order, will likely prevent the church from "moving into the 21st century and out of the Middle Ages."

"It does not bode well for people who are concerned for lesbian and gay people in the church," she said.


• PRESIDENT BUSH PRAISES RATZINGER | 3:45 p.m. ET

President Bush joins other world leaders in praising the choice of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as the new pope, calling him a "man of great wisdom and knowledge."

"He's a man who serves the Lord," Bush tells reporters at the White House.

http://egyptelection.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=517

TYY

[ComerPerro]

15. Oh my God, Bush is a fucking idiot

He sounds exactly like a high school kid BSing his way through a test.

[merbex]

31. He ALWAYS sounds like that

what I wouldn't give for an articulate smart progressive person to be in the White House

[allemand]

16. Leonardo Boff: "The winter of the Church continues.

It will even become more rigorous."

“Tememos que esse inverno eclesial continue. A Igreja vai conhecer um inverno mais rigoroso.”

BBC Brazil did an interview with him. I hope that they will translate it later. In the meantime here is the Portuguese version:

Leonardo Boff diz estar perplexo e surpreso
http://www.bbc.co.uk/portuguese/reporterbbc/story/2005/04/050419_diegoboffcg.shtml

"Haverá dificuldade em amar esse papa", diz Leonardo Boff
http://www.estadao.com.br/rss/mundo/2005/abr/19/103.htm

[TeeYiYi]

25. "The winter of the Church" . . .

. . . how perfect.

TYY

[chicagiana]

37. Hah, priests should not minister to queers ...

... Clearly the correct order is the queers (Priests) should administer to straights!!!!!

Seriously, if they booted all the queers out of the clergy, there would hardly be anyone left.

[southerntransplant]

7. conservative vs. liberal pope

I'm not Catholic, so I didn't follow what John Paul II did all that closely. But it seems like he was conservative only on some issues (especially birth control) but was more in step with liberals on other issues (like capital punishment and so forth.) I'm new here and don't know the backstory on some of these conversations, but it seems like everyone focuses only on the issues where he wasn't liberal. Do you think the new pope will be different (as in, conservative on all issues?)

[Inland]

11. Killjoy!

That's an attempt to engage in a rational discussions of things that matter. Wrong thread!

[LdyGuique]

14. Welcome to the roiling world of DU where many a thread turns

emotional in a heartbeat. BTW -- look at those icons that run across the top (when out in the lists of subjects) -- there is something called "My Posts." It is a super useful tool for finding out if anyone ever responded to you and/or finding your way back to that thread to read it. It only tracks your posts for the previous 48 hours, but since most threads die in under 12, one rarely needs more.

[Bunny]

17. You need to be a donor to access that feature.

[LdyGuique]

20. I'm not a donor

[comsymp]

35. You're thinking about "Search"

"My Posts" is still available to everybody.

[Dark]

22. You're right about the issues, but the reason everyone here focuses

on those issues is because the church does.

You didn't hear about the church refusing to administer communion to pro-war people, did you?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Inland]

10. Why, when there's a million snappy thread titles waiting?

Why make sense when you can make slogans?

[RC]

12. Slogans can make cents.

[RevCheesehead]

18. as in "bumperstickers"

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zenlitened]

21. Here's one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x33835

[Bigmack]

13. C'mon....

...the church is already there!

Virgin Birth, Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation, infalibility, celebacy, "churching" of women, Resurrection, etc.... The church gets to do that.

What we gotta stop is this COUNTRY slipping into the twelfth century.

[arwalden]

23. I Couldn't Possibly Fail To Disagree With You Less...

Less? Or is it more?

Anyway... I agree with you. Things will get worse, much worse, before it gets better. --- The bigotry, and hate, and the regressive and socially backward policies... the anti-science anti-intellectual attitudes will be even MORE blatant and more aggressive than before.

-- Allen*

*A deviant member of the Culture-Of-Evil and Perverted-Sodomite.

[imenja]

26. Perhaps you should just line up all the Catholics against the wall

and be done with it. I'm tired of this hate mongering.

By the way, the Inquisition lasted through the 18th century.

[arwalden]

30. Oh Brother... What An ABSURD Thing To Say, Imenja!

Why would we want to execute Catholics because of the insane and bigoted policies of the church leaders?

"Hate mongering"... puh-leeze! :eyes:

[imenja]

32. I wonder?

:think:

[arwalden]

33. BWAAWK!! "The Sky Is Falling! The Sky Is Falling!"

[V. Kid]

29. Yeah this was

a pretty poor decision.

If they want to remain relevent they need to change and become more relevent to the people. Otherwise it's kaputs.

[chicagiana]

36. Look at it this way ...

This could provoke an all out revolt amongst the laity. All the laity need to is appropriate the collection plate.

A group of solid church goers would collect on behalf of each parish. Those parishes would form boards and elect a lay-bishop.

And the lay bishops would elect cardinals and so forth. Those bodies would hold the church's feet to the fire and hold back money if they're acting like asses (like they did in the sex scandal).

If they wished, they could FORCE the church to allow priests to marry. They could FORCE the church out of their teachings against contraception. etc...


One of the biggest reforms I think would be approriate is to make the clergy a democratic body. Right now, the Pope appoints the Cardinals, the Cardinals appoint the Bishops and the Bishops shuffle around the priests. The PRIESTS should elect the Bishops. The Bishops should elect the Cardinals. Bottom up management would change the nature of the church.

Most parish priests aren't sex craved asshole child abusers. Most of them are really nice people and more liberal than you might imagine. The conservative ones are plucked up to reflect the view of the Cardinals and the Pope.