Cardinal Ratzinger was a kid for God's sake!

[11 Bravo]

Hitler was appointed Chancellor on January 30, 1933. Joseph Ratzinger was 5 years old. The Law against the Establishment of New Parties solidified the Nazis' hold on power by making the National Socialist Party the only legal political party in Germany. The law was passed on July 14, 1933. Joseph Ratzinger had just turned six. In either 1939 or 1941 (I've seen conflicting accounts) membership in the Hitler-Jugend was made mandatory. Parents were warned that non-compliance would lead to their children being taken taken away and sent to other families or orphanages; and the parents themselves would receive lengthy prison terms. Joseph Ratzinger was either 11 or 13 years old. He joined the Hitler Youth in 1941 and quickly was granted a dispensation due to his seminary training. Is this the "Nazi" I'm reading about on DU? I expect this kind of mindless shit from freepers, but not here.

[formerrepuke]

1. You're right- teenaged males in Germany at the time did not have the

option of saying "no."

[YEM]

4. There were plenty of other fine choices...

Who were never Hitler Youth members. He remained a Hitler youth until 18. Being a Jew, it speaks volumes of the Bishops to me.

[Amaya]

10. indeed

[IMSA]

5. Oh, You Could Say 'NO'

But it would be the LAST thing you ever said.

IMSA

[Southsideirish]

21. Ya, I guess it depends on if you have principles or not...

[louis c]

14. What would Christ have done?

at the time, do you think?

[Southsideirish]

22. Duh, been a conscientious objector, maybe??

[louis c]

33. Certainly not be complicit

with the most evil man in world history.

and certainly not willingly serve the closest thing the world has seen to the anti-Christ.

Maybe you can make a case that Ratzinger shouldn't be a war criminal.............

But Pope. Shouldn't we have a higher standard?

[noonwitch]

32. He would have died, just like He did at the Roman's hands

At least He knew he was going to be resurrected in 3 days.

Ratzinger was a kid when the Nazis took power, he's not responsible for what he was forced to do.

[louis c]

35. Just Following Orders.

Great Choice.

I'm sure all the Holocaust survives and their descendent's feel just peachy-keen at the choice made by these Cardinals.


If the Germans during this period that defied Hitler and joined the underground to help the allies are considered brave heroes........

What are the ones who did the opposite?

[Guaranteed]

2. He was 14 in 1941.

He turned 78 Saturday.

I dunno. There's a big difference between 14, and, say, 8.

[theHandpuppet]

37. And he was 17 in 1944

When he served at the BMW factory (which was a Nazi top secret weapons development factory) that used concentration camp victims from Dachau to work as forced labor. When he was eighteen, in 1945, he was in the regular German Army.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hav]

7. What the hell???

no comment...

[Maple]

6. He was an

anti-aircraft gunner, and he left after Hitler committed suicide

[seabeyond]

8. dont make him pope, it is part of his history

it is now part of the position it is a refelction of the church.

i mean a kids flunks out of school or makes only c's throughout school, you dont make him president. one may say, that is what he did when he was a kid, but none the less you dont make him president

oooops, that doesnt work

[dhinojosa]

9. So him being an a nazi aircraft gunner....

and never renouncing that involvement is a good thing?

[MollyStark]

Being in the German army doesn't make him a Nazi

There were many people in the German army who were caught up in that war. Not all of them were Nazi's or evil.

[louis c]

34. Pope

We're talking about a Pope.

What standard would you use? He was just following orders?

[elehhhhna]

11. Today is Hitlers Birthday. n/t

[tishaLA]

13. That's tomorrow actually

Old Woody Allen joke: "The last time we had sex was April 20th. I remember because it was Hitler's birthday."

[louis c]

12. How about his positions now?

How about the role of women in the church?

How about his position on gays?

How loud did he criticize the Pedophilia scandal?

I guess his formative years taught him well.

[MadHound]

15. Sorry, but his youth is no excuse

I grew up in a small town of German immigrants. Many of them were faced with the same choice that Ratzinger had, at the same age he was or younger. Many didn't make the choice he made, and thus wound up ostrasized, in concentration camps or worse. But they would make the same choice all over again, given the chance. Fourteen is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and to do the morally correct thing. Sorry, but using his age at the time isn't a valid excuse, it is a cop out.

[11 Bravo]

20. I'm glad I wasn't faced with the choice.

I'm not as certain of my moral superiority as you appear to be of yours. By the way, might I assume from your post that you are in favor of the death penalty for 14 year olds found guilty of a capital crime?

[Southsideirish]

24. For a person of principle there is no "choice". You do what is right.

[MadHound]

30. Wow, talk about a non-sequitor, you just wrote it

How does my belief in the death penalty for fourteen year olds relate? But for your information, I'm not in favor of the death penalty for anybody, no matter what their age.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. we put 14 year olds in jail for life in this country now.FYI

While I would not hold a crime or action of one's youth against them indefinitely, I simply want to remind all of those defending this on the basis of his age, that persecuting AND prosecuting a youth of 14 goes on in this nation every fucking day.

So when can I presume all the DU'ers defending Ratzinger will get to work on correcting this wrong?

[Guaranteed]

17. I was going to bring that up, eventually.

Hell, we used to execute them- but we waited until they were 18, though.

How nice of us.

[MollyStark]

18. I've been working on it for years n/t

[11 Bravo]

25. Assume what you wish.

I can't speak for others, but I believe that prosecuting 14 year olds as adults is barbaric; and I have spoken out about it, corresponded with my elected representatives, and written numerous letters to the editor condemning the practice. You apparently share those feelings ... except of course for one particular 14 year old.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. Now you're making an assumption and the worst thing of all

is that my answer to the contrary is right there in the post to which you were responding.

Perhaps a reread of my post on your part is in order...heck..maybe even an apology for being mistaken, eh?

[11 Bravo]

29. If I misunderstood your post, then I do apologize.

My initial post is simply in reference to a belief that it is asinine to call the man a "Nazi" based upon what he did or did not do when he was 14. You appeared to take issue with that, and it is that contention to which I was attempting to respond.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. No..I only take issue with the fact that many people have voted for

laws to hold minors accountable at the threshold of adulthood but often it is those same people saying,"He was only a kid" when it's a crime they choose to justify.

Apology accepted.

BTW, you can search my other posts if you wish to see I have been consistent on this point.

[Misunderestimator]

27. Wrong spot...

delete

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. Ratzinger is a mistake. This will accelerate the demise

of the Catholic church.

[Southsideirish]

23. A terrible, terrible mistake. One they will long regret.

[Misunderestimator]

28. Ha. We excuse a nazi because he was a young nazi?

Aren't there SOME things that are just too wrong to ever qualify someone for something as important as head of the ENTIRE WORLD'S CATHOLIC POPULATION?

No... Someone who is "chosen" by God (which I presume he is, through his cardinal agents) should be held to an INFINITELY HIGHER standard than most people. Nazis were tried and convicted and the excuse of their ignorance didn't work. Why should it work for the Pope?

[Melynn]

36. The myth of the Good German

Since the end of WWII we have had the myth of the "Good German" who only follow orders and defended their country and didn't buy into the Nazi ideology. This myth was invented by the West because we needed the West Germans in the Cold War to fight against the Soviet Union.

Many historians have looked back at German history and discovered that German society was very anti-Semitic which allowed a party like the Nazi's to come to power. I think Ratzinger should answer questions about his feelings about the Jews and the Holocaust and the Church's role during that period of time. I don't think anyone will ever ask Ratzinger those questions.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

38. actually, he has a lifetime record of being an evil bastard

the nazi youth is just the beginnng point

[DeaconBlues]

39. Whats everybody worried about?

Collaboration with the Nazis is a venerated papal tradition. Anybody remember Pius XII?

[Igel]

40. Once a fascist, always a fascist.

So, Sr. Byrd from W-Va is a respected Democratic senator.

At what age did he join the Klan? Was it required to join, or have him taken away?

Umm ... he did that voluntarily.

How dare people fall for that kind of virulent racism; he's obviously not fit to be either in the party, or in the Senate.

But wait, he was a lot younger, wasn't he?

People don't denounce him as a racist Klansman, no do they?

Don't know much about Ratzinger. But what he did that long ago is done with. It's hypocritical to say, Racist/fascist in the 1940s, it's for life ... unless I like how you vote today, then never mind.