This Activist was NOT killed by an IRAQI CAR BOMB. She was murdered

[radwriter0555]

by US covert ops.

SAN FRANCISCO - A woman who founded a humanitarian group to aid civilian casualties in Iraq has died in a car bombing in Baghdad, officials said Sunday.


Marla Ruzicka, founder of Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, died Saturday in the blast, which also killed an Iraqi and another foreigner, officials said. She had been in Iraq conducting door-to-door surveys trying to determine the number of civilian casualties in the country.


Ruzicka, 28, founded CIVIC in 2003 to "mitigate the impact of the conflict and its aftermath on the people of Iraq by ensuring that timely and effective life-saving assistance is provided to those in need," according to the group's Web site.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050417/ap_on_re_mi_ea/u_s__iraq_activist_killed_1

[acmavm]

1. Why do you say that? I'm not saying it's impossible, but what are your

reasons for thinking this way?

[bpilgrim]

7. it will need to be more than 'just' our long recent history of bloody ...

BEHAVIOR.

looks like only pics/video of the perps in action, will merit any print in Fundy land these days unfortunately.

peace

[thecai]

82. Perhaps BECAUSE She Was A Civil Rights Activist

I've had a few attempts on my life, for that very reason.

[theboss]

2. And you know this because.....

When I saw this story, I knew this theory would be on DU within minutes.

[w4rma]

3. It is my understanding that she was traveling with a US convoy. Do you

have *any* evidence, whatsoever, that members of the convoy assassinated her and the other members are keeping quiet about what they saw?

From everything that I can tell, what happened was an Iraq suicide bomber was targeting the convoy and missed the target they were going after and instead hit her car.

[mistertrickster]

20. I thought it was an Italian convoy.

[radwriter0555]

85. Interesting first-hand account here....

"...Then we got a call from the US military saying a woman fitting her description had been in an accident, but that she was in the military hospital and in good condition. We were relieved. In Baghdad's strange logic, we all thanked God it was a car accident and not a kidnapping. Then we received another call. It was the military again. This time they said the woman was dead on arrival...."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0418/p07s01-woiq.html

Interesting how the story is changing as the hours go by. But hey, I'm just a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist, right?

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&ncl=http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/2464.html

Varying stories abound oddly.

[hlthe2b]

4. I'm sure this has occurred to all of us, but without proof....

I'm not sure we should conclude anything....

[jmatthan]

10. Why do you need proof?

Double Standards?

Bush invaded Iraq without any proof. So why do you demand proof for this?

Let the US Military prove she was not murdered.

Just keep using the term murdered whenever you refer to this case.

http://MoveTheUN.blogspot.com
Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. Why do we need proof?

Because we aren't Bush.

[captain crunch]

14. guilty till proven innocent??

[SammyWinstonJack]

87. Patriot Act???

:banghead:

[thecai]

91. Exactly

"Guilty til proven innocent" is how justice is served in America, except in many cases where exulpatory evidence is ignored, destroyed or with-held. Those suspects don't stand a chance for justice. Tens of thousands of innocent Americans are wrongfully convicted each year.

[radwriter0555]

19. Wow, well said. Thank you for that.

(((hugs)))

[hlthe2b]

41. I demanded proof from Bush*; Having none, I did NOT support this war....

But, the Bushies* as a result, have no credibility. I don't wish to become the enemy.

[Lone Pawn]

46. BUSH MURDERED MY CAT! Why do you need proof? Let's arrest him now!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

47. "Why do you need proof?"

Haha, that's one of the funniest things I've ever read on DU.

George Bush is a lizard-man. I know that it's true. Why would you need proof?

[Lone Pawn]

57. George Bush raped every single female soldier. I know that it's true.

Why would you need proof?

[jmatthan]

90. Thanks for getting my take!!

eom

[mistertrickster]

5. That was my first thought too--First a left-wing Italian journalist, now

an anti-war American on her way home for what? a speaking tour? a book deal?

How convenieeenent.

Hundreds if not thousands of US civilian contractors and imperial magistrates travel that "dangerous airport road" every week and none of them seem to get picked off . . .

Odd, isn't it?

Kicked and nominated for "greatest" page.

[theboss]

9. Was Michael Kelly killed too?

Let me guess...he was murdered to throw us off the scent?

[mistertrickster]

37. Kelley was an embedded journalist who was killed when the US

ATTACKED the airport in the intial assault phase of the war.

Not even close to the same thing.

This fits a pattern. US tanks targetting and killing journalists in the Palestine Hotel, the Al-Jazira attack that killed their man on the rooftop, the Israeli bulldozers that crushed to death an American protestor in Israel with no outcry from our government, the Italian shooting and now this.

[liam_laddie]

62. Kelley's death

The story at the time was that he was riding in a Humvee which
swerved to avoid something, went into one of the canals which
criss-cross the region, and drowned when neither he nor driver could escape from the vehicle. True? Who can discern truth with liars in charge?

[Avalux]

6. Why do you think this?

While I'm inclined to believe your subject line, can you explain? The article doesn't hint at it. BTW - I believe Hariri's assasination was covert ops job.

[mistertrickster]

15. Look at the odds. How many Americans travel the airport road?

How many of them die travelling that road?

It's possible these two killings (well, one was only an ATTEMPTED killing that very nearly succeeded) were purely random events.

But the odds suggest the opposite.

*****

It's like the so-called "Gulf War Syndrome." If two-thirds of all vets who go to war come home with life-threatening illnesses, you don't have to know the specific cause to know that they were exposed to some pathological agents (either war- or environment-related) in common.

That so many vets would be sickened is virtually an impossible random event, based on the statistical evidence compared with non-vets.

I suspect that's what we have here as well.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[radwriter0555]

13. Gee, the US government would never do anything covert to silence

dissenters or truth tellers, would it?

Yep, Bush is a right honorable man with a long history of truth, wisdom and courage on his side, as is his daddy, and dick cheney, and don rumsfeld and paul wolfowitz.

Decent, honorable men with nothing but your safety and welfare rooted deep in their hearts.

Now, if that were true, why are you here, and why does DU exist?

[mistertrickster]

17. There have been many examples of just what you're talking about.

Johnson's trumped up "Gulf of Tonkin" incident that led to troops on the ground in Vietnam, GHW Bush's use of "babies thrown from their incubators" to attack Saddam the first time (a known lie), the conspiracy of using bad sources like "Curveball" to justify this abortion in Iraq.

These all involved hundreds if not thousands of willing participants in the conspiracy.

That's just three that come to mind right now.

On edit--I just thought of another one. The CIA under GHW Bush or Reagan (I think) wanted to kill a sheik in the Middle East, so they contracted some locals to do it. The locals came up with the brilliant idea of exploding a car bomb while the target left a mosque. The resulting explosion killed 80 people but the sheik lived.

What about 9-11? Surely you agree that was a conspiracy by Saudi terrorists to attack the U.S.? And not only was it a conspiracy itself, but there was a conspiracy of silence among our putative allies (ISRAEL) to let it happen.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Evidence was provided for each of those

Before large numbers of people believed them.

That's strangely how it works, see. You make a claim, provide evidence for it, then people weigh that evidence, and decide if your claim makes sense.

Strange, huh?

Caveat: Evidence or fact of past conspiracy does not count as evidence toward unconnected current conspiracy claim. Another dirty little requirement for people with good will and good sense.

[Zorra]

43. And in each of those cases, desperate dishonest attempts to hide the

truth were made by the RW.

And therein lies the problem: RWers always lie. So when something of this nature occurs, we automatically assume that there were nefarious intentions/actions by the RW because that is how they normally operate. Indeed, in all probability, this woman would not even have been in Iraq if Bush and the rest of the administration criminals had not lied.

The Bush administration has engaged in more government secrecry than any other in history. Sometimes they may get caught, sometimes not.

But the truth is not always revealed immediately, and sometimes it never is.

It depends on how good a job criminals like RWers do of covering their misdeeds.

The case in question could be a homicide. There is a possible motive.

But who will investigate if it was the "cops" that committed the murder on orders from the "mayor"?

[Toby109]

25. Uh, Nixon?

The Nixon administration accused the "liberal" media and Democrats of blowing the Watergate break-in out of portion and being conspiracy theorists. John Dean came forward, admitted he was part of it, and told Congress the hows and whys of it.

[Zorra]

38. Sorry, I was being facetious. n/t

[radwriter0555]

11. Just watch and see. I was also the first one to raise a stink about little

baby jessica's 'rescue' being bogus, and the same types rode me ragged about that; I was right on target with that too long before anyone else.

This stinks. With the mass murder of any journalists not approved by the invading regime since the beginning of the invasion; and with the murder of any iraqi politico who opposes the invading regime; with the dismissal of the numbers of Iraqi dead as determined by Johns Hopkins, apparently this woman's murder by the US factions was to either increase sympathy for the bush regime's deeds, or she was on to facts and figures that were in sharp contrast to the lies and treason of the invading bush regime.

Just watch and see.

[democracyindanger]

26. Wow. What are tomorrow's lottery numbers?

[TWiley]

16. Thats exactly what I thought. Why on earth would the Iraqi's want

to kill her? It seems to me they would drive her around in a limo.

My first instinct was that special ops did it also. It reminds me of the whoopsie, one of our missiles accidental hit the broadcast center of Al Jazeer.

[theboss]

22. Because she is American

Do you really think that the insurgents can tell the difference between a peace activist and an oil company employee?

[radwriter0555]

30. Insurgents?? You mean the Iraqi men and women defending their nation from

murderous genocidal killers in the US military?

Yes, they do know the difference. These people aren't morons. Why would they kill someone ON THEIR SIDE?

[Lone Pawn]

49. For the same reason they blew up the UN delegation.

Their principal objective is to turn the Iraqi people against said 'murderous genocidal killers.' This isn't just a war between our guys with guns and their guys with guns, it's a war for control of Iraq. And, since those who support the Americans in any form do so because they believe the US can bring stability, the best way to turn people away from the Americans is to show them that the US cannot under any circumstances bring any form of stability. They're blowing shit up to say, "Look. We have the power here. They have guns, but they cannot protect you. Only by turning to us will you be safe, because this is war and while we can protect you from them, they cannot protect you from us."

The question is why the US would shoot a well-known figure and make it look as if the Iraqi insurgents did it. Since their best line right now is "Turn to America, because the insurgents are becoming too weak to do anything to you," why on Earth would they want to show that the insurgents are still capable?

[theboss]

88. Because it's not a war for independence

It's a war for control.

I'm not saying that the insurgents are bad guys or heros. There are too many groups with too many objectives to make such blanket statements. (Though apparently you have no problem with blanket statements about the military).

Those who want the US out can't win militarily. So they are out to cause chaos. I don't think the majority of what you would term "freedom fighters" care one way or the other how many civilians have died. They seem pretty indiscriminate with their own attacks.

The point is to cause chaos and exhaust the US.

This woman was caught in the middle.

[Randi_Listener]

23. Where is the fucking proof of this goddamn claim?

You say the military is into murdering US citizens. Now cough up the fucking proof.

[radwriter0555]

27. There are more than 20 dead reporters alone since the start of the war...

where have you been?

Not to mention strange kidnappings wierd beheadings of US contractors and business people by people definetely NOT iraqis.

And what proof did bush have to invade iraq to begin with? Let's talk about proof, okay?

[Randi_Listener]

32. There are more than Iraqis in Iraq now due to this cluster-ass-fucked war.

It's terrorists setting off bombs as well. It's more than just irate Iraqis buttfucking the US military every day.

[rinsd]

40. "Bush did it" is now the excuse?

"Not to mention strange kidnappings wierd beheadings of US contractors and business people by people definetely NOT iraqis."

LOL, yeah based on their "western mannerisms", their skin color (ignoring that many Iraqis are light skinned) and the super unique white plastic chair and you've got them!

"And what proof did bush have to invade iraq to begin with? Let's talk about proof, okay?"

None, so you're putting yourself in Bush's company?

[Lone Pawn]

54. Bush invaded Iraq without proof, so we can make all the crazy allegations

without proof we want to? How many do we get to make now? Or can we use this to justify every insane thing we say, just like freepers use the Clenis to justify all their moral failings?

[democracyindanger]

28. The proof is the echo chamber

of the people upthread shouting, "We don't need no proof!"

[Lone Pawn]

53. So the proof that the military killed the aid worker

is that anti-military paranoiacs are claiming that the military killed her. Great!

[democracyindanger]

61. Isn' it?

Making the assertion is proof enough. Life must be so simple for those folks.

[radwriter0555]

71. Well considering the credibility of the people who are claiming the IRAQIS

killed her is a wee bit suspect, let's see what comes out in the next 72 hours...

[democracyindanger]

75. And if nothing does, you'll maintain that it's a coverup

So why even wait? Why not just save some time and start shouting about the coverup now?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

84. Yeah

She was such a threat that a CIA-millitary-bushjunta agent suicide bombed her. What's that you say? No CIA agent would do kill themselves like that? Then perhaps the car was remote-controlled. Perhaps the fucking Improvised Explosive Devices Fairy did it.

This shit gets stupider by the day. They don't even have the bloody white plastic chair this time, claiming that they don't need it based upon their prior white plastic chair "evidence" which itself was based on nonsense. It's a house of cards. Using bullshit to prop up other bullshit.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. There is no proof

Just rank irresponsibility.

Or, the proof is that Hitler murdered 6 million Jews in the middle part of the twentieth cnetury, therefore, the co-founder of CIVIC was murdered by US covert ops.

If you don't see the sterling logic of that proposition, you haven't made yourself familiar enough with DU-WACKY Logics, a variation on Aristotle's Posterior Analytics (with the emphasis on Posterior...)

[Randi_Listener]

33. "Aristotle's Posterior Analytics"?!?

LOL

[mistertrickster]

39. Oh, stop with the superior, I'm more logical than you are. I teach logic.

No one is saying definitively that she was assissinated by US operatives (I don't say troops). Why? because WE DON'T HAVE PROOF.

If we had proof, we could file murder charges and win.

What we are saying is that it fits a pattern and asking people to consider that this death meets the needs of this administration very well, and asking that it be looked into and investigated on that basis.

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. So do I

And I'm still looking for even the hint of a pattern.

[mistertrickster]

45. Americans opening fire on a disliked Italian journalist strikes you

as just normal war-time operations.

How many other journalists have been killed by direct fire by our side?

Let's see . . . none except for her. Hmmm . . . no pattern there.

There're hundreds if not thousands of sympathetic or embedded journalists in Iran that never get shot at by our side but the ONE left-wing journalist critical of the war gets targetted.

Okay . . . just a coincidence. Yeah, you betcha . . .

Those of us who understand odds understand if this were a routine mistake dozens of other journalists would have been killed in similar routine mistakes.

The odds against this happening to this ONE journalist by pure chance is tiny.

********

Similarly, people like Paul Bremer and all kinds of Bush Team minions travel up and down that road, and do they get killed? Do they accidentally get targetted and greivously wounded?

No. They're fine.

Similarly this woman worked in country for months walking among Iraqis, but she didn't die until she tried to get OUT of the country.

So many convenient coincidences constitute a kind of proof . . . it's not legal proof, but it's the kind of proof we use (correctly) all the time in our daily lives.

[Lone Pawn]

56. So we have some people claiming,

"We shoot journalists all the time! So we killed the aid worker!"
and some claiming
"We only targeted one journalist! So we killed the aid worker!"

Okay. Y'all might want to settle on one theory.

[mistertrickster]

64. We only targetted this one journalist IN THIS WAY. What about all

the other journalists who fly in and out of the country? Why don't they get fired at on the airport road? Or killed by a roadside bomb?

The fact that US forces have targetted unembedded journalists both foreign and domestic is undisputed.

[Lone Pawn]

65. Well, it's pretty damn obvious why we don't shoot 'embedded' journalists.

They're never more than 30 yards from a US soldier. There's no way they could be accidentially shot, whereas unembedded journalists are just another body in a free-fire zone.

[mistertrickster]

72. Double post, see below

oops . . .

[mistertrickster]

73. Good point, so we should see a lot of unembedded journalists getting

shot at or blown up on their way out of country, yet only these two were attacked in that way.

The two that opposed George Bush's war and were going to talk about it firsthand.

So strange, isn't it.

[Lone Pawn]

74. Actually, quite a few journalists have been killed.

http://www.kirkbytimes.co.uk/antiwaritems/journalists_killed_iraq.html

[mistertrickster]

80. Thanks for posting that. Did you read this by Al Jazeera?

Tariq Ayoub, 8 April 2003, Aljazeera TV channel correspondent; killed in a US air strike at Aljazeera office in Baghdad. This tribute is from his colleagues. "The blood of Tariq was fair game, as was the blood of other journalists working for Al-Jazeera and the Abu Dhabi network; both were bombed at the same time-followed by an attack on journalists in the Palestine Hotel, an attack that occurred probably because of its name. The message we take from Tariq's killing makes CENTCOM spokesman Vincent Brooks' statement seem quite ironic: "We bomb locations with precision, and we pay attention to locations where journalists are present." In reality, Tariq's killing demonstrates that the U.S. military preferred that Tariq and journalists like him ride on the back of an American tank, follow the troops around, eat and drink with them, and write in line with U.S. military desires. His death is a message directed to the remaining journalists and reporters who are still in the field, who are giving alternate perspectives on what is propagated by Bush, Rumsfeld, and others from the U.S. administration. Ayoub left a wife and a one-year-old daughter. In an interview with the station on the day of his death, his wife Dima said: "Eventually everyone will forget him, but we will never forget him. He is with God now." RIP.

FROM THE SAME LINK.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

79. Oy!

>What we are saying is that it fits a pattern

Which is fine, except that there isn't a single shred of evidence that any of the events in your "pattern" where

a) in any way intentional
b) were part of a pattern

You're basing your no-evidence claim of a pattern upon previous events for which there is no evidence of a pattern. It's pretty convienient when you start with a baseless claim and use that as the foundation for more baseless claims.

[Dhalgren]

34. Oh come off it!

The US government and military have been killing citizens for years. Using them as test subjects for nuclear tests and drug tests. CIA running drugs into the inner cities. And all of the "collateral" damage that has been done over the years - come on, this kind of thing, while not proved, is not "out of the ballpark" and you know it.

[Randi_Listener]

35. The US military has NOT been murdering and slaughtering US citizens

You are way out of fucking line here.

[Dhalgren]

36. Of course, you're right. My bad...

[Randi_Listener]

59. Don't condescend to me.

If you have a different fucking argument, let's hear it.

[bpilgrim]

63. lol

the tribute vices pays to virtue

peace

[Lone Pawn]

67. You know, that isn't really an argument either.

[bpilgrim]

83. of course

it wasn't intended to be, just pointing out the obvious in a sub thread.

peace

(on edit: fixed typos)

[radwriter0555]

70. Naw, they would never do that... those dead reporters that were blown up

-- it was all just a slight misunderstanding....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4356389/

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/002372.html

Reporters Without Borders called today on US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld to provide evidence that the offices of the pan-Arab TV station Al-Jazeera and the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad were not deliberately fired at by US forces earlier in the day in attacks that killed three journalists.

"We are appalled at what happened because it was known that both places contained journalists," said the organisation's secretary-general Robert Ménard. "Film shot by the French TV station France 3 and descriptions by journalists show the neighbourhood was very quiet at that hour and that the US tank crew took their time, waiting for a couple of minutes and adjusting its gun before opening fire."

"This evidence does not match the US version of an attack in self-defence and we can only conclude that the US Army deliberately and without warning targeted journalists. US forces must prove that the incident was not a deliberate attack to dissuade or prevent journalists from continuing to report on what is happening in Baghdad," he said.

"We are concerned at the US army's increasingly hostile attitude towards journalists, especially those non-embedded in its military units. Army officials have also remained deplorably silent and refused to give any details about what happened when a British ITN TV crew was fired on near Basra on 22 March, killing one journalist and leaving two others missing.

"Very many non-embedded journalists have complained about being refused entry to Iraq from Kuwait, threatened with withdrawal of accreditation and being held and interrogated for several hours. One group of non-embedded journalists was held in secret for two days and roughed up by US military police," Ménard said.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=5975

[jmatthan]

92. Can you prove that? 1558 US citizens DEAD!

I would think 1558 US soldiers dead today is my proof that the US military is killing US citizens - sending them to war without adequate equipment, protection, etc.

Sorry, the US military has killed its soldiers.

http://MoveTheUN.blogspot.com

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[Lone Pawn]

50. You're right! And by your pseudologic, I can claim that

1. My grandfather, who was a decorated WW2 veteran and later a civilian, died two years ago.
2. The military has a history of killing civilians.
3. Bush, who controls the military, has a history of killing vets.
4. Therefore Bush killed my grandfather.

[Randi_Listener]

52. Circular fucking logic by some is getting this entire debate shitted up

[democracyindanger]

58. Calling it logic demeans logic

[madrchsod]

31. posted the link from the

chicago tribune reporter in bagdad earlier this morning. better article but the trib has that sign up thing..
i guess i should have said she was murdered to get a responce. her story merits a front page because she was actually DOING SOMETHING GOOD while we sit here in the usa bitching about someone murdering her--parts of this whole thread is digusting and an insult to her and her work-grow the hell up. got it?

[mistertrickster]

51. That's why we think she got knocked off--because she was doing something

good.

We're not bitching about it--we're seeking justice for her.

It'll be interesting to see what Medea Benjamin, the chair of her group, has to say about this.

[Lone Pawn]

55. And what exactly is the vested interest of the United States

in demonstrating to the Iraqi people that they are not in control, but rather that the insurgents still have free rein?

[onenote]

60. think about it -- what would the US gain from killing her?

Nada. Zilch. Less than that even.
Her death (i) undercuts the administration's attempt to fool the American people into believing that the insurgency is all but defeated and democracy, peace, prosperity and godknowswhatelse is just around the corner for those lucky enough to live in the great liberated land of Iraq and (ii) it publicizes this brave young woman, her work, and the horrors inflicted on the iraqi citizenship -- information that the MSM otherwise doesn't talk about.

Nope...this woman's death is last thing that this administration wants -- a peace martyr.

onenote

[mistertrickster]

66. Okay, I totally disagree--the one thing that Team Bush hates is

criticism. What this demonstrates to peace activists is 1. don't go to Iraq and 2. if you must go, work for our agenda not your own.

This woman would have been a walking testimonal of first hand accounts of the atrocities she witnessed. She might have even gotten major media air time--"the little girl that braved the horrible war."

Now she's good and dead.

On edit--peace be upon her. She's braver and better than I'll ever be.

[Lone Pawn]

68. She wasn't worth the killing.

Her death may make a few peace activists think twice before going. But it will certainly get media play as a coup for the insurgents over the US military, which will endanger the mission and subject the US military to mass criticism from the Arab world for again failing to make the nation safe for peace workers. You place way too much importance on this one girl's 'potential' to complain about conditions in Iraq--as if nobody had said, "gee, this war didn't go so well" yet.

[mistertrickster]

77. Well we can go round and round on this, but she had the specifics.

People at home complain, but she had the stuff that would stick--the real atrocities she saw evidence of.

That's much worse than another "successful" bombing by insurgents.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

81. Americans don't give a shit.

How many atrocities have already been aired - from Abu Ghraib to shootings at checkpoints to child rape, etc, etc, etc. The American public has made its reaction to all this quite clear:

PPPHHHHBBBBBBBBBBBTTTTT!

I hate to break it to you, but 90% of the American public doesn't give a fuck what some aid worker saw, unless it was Elvis.

[Lone Pawn]

44. Do you have one LITTLE TINY MICROSCOPIC bit of proof?

Or are you just rambling insanely?

[Randi_Listener]

48. I want to see some fucking proof here as well.

The US military is not a pack of shit murderers.

[mistertrickster]

69. Randi, I hate to break it to you, but when your job description is

shoot and kill people, that sometimes attracts people who want to shoot and kill people.

Not many, I believe. Most of our military want to serve and protect their country, but some ARE in it for the killing.

Exhibit A--Lee Harvey Oswald, former marine, killer of JFK
Exhibit B--The BTK strangle murderer, former air force, killer of at least 10 Kansas women

I was told this by a military guy, otherwise I never would have thought of it, since I too want to always think the best about people putting their lives on the line.

[Lone Pawn]

76. That's still not anything close to proof.

It's saying, "This person was killed. The army kills people. The insurgents kill people. Therefore the army killed this person."

[NNN0LHI]

78. And...

Exhibit C--Eric Rudolph, Convicted terrorist, US Army

Exhibit D--Timothy McVeigh, Convicted mass murderer, US Army

Exhibit E--Terry Nichols, Convicted mass murderer, US Army

[wizard47th]

86. A Girl Named Marla

Its sad to see the memory of Marla Ruzicka used in this way. I went to school with Marla and still live in her hometown. This Saturday I will be attending her memorial, but I am not going to mourn her...but to celebrate the accomplishments that many of us could only dream of having. I havent seen Marla in 14 years yet in the short time I did know her, she impacted my life to such a degree that she is the only person I remember from that time in school. In fact, one of the only things I remember from that time was when Marla organized a student walk-out to protest the Gulf War. She was only in the 8th grade and yet had already begun her tremendous mission.

Marla was the most caring and giving person I have ever had the pleasure of meeting and I know that she died doing what she loved. I dont want to see Marla remembered in a way of Republican vs. Democrat...niether would she. Her life is too big for any of us to use her as a pawn of whos wrong and whos right. Instead, I suggest you visit the CIVIC website and read her journals from her visits to Afghanistan and Iraq and the help she gave to so many.

Marla was a better person then many of us and if I could trade places with her I would. I dont know if I would ever be able to accomplish what Marla did, so I dont know why I deserve to live and someone who has done so much doesnt. The only thing I can do is try to live my life to the fullest. Marla Ruzicka was a special person who touched many lives. Instead of bickering about her death, study her life.

[democracyindanger]

89. KICK for this, welcome to DU

[Moderator]

93. Locking

This has become a flame war