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"Born again" in the Bible means "reincarnation."

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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:14 PM
Original message
"Born again" in the Bible means "reincarnation."
I truly believe this, based on the following:

1. My belief that the soul can exist separate from the body and survives death. This is based on out of body and other experiences I have had.

2. My belief that Edgar Cayce was for real; that he astral projected and conveyed true information from the spiritual world.

3. There is evidence that references to reincarnation were removed from the Bible in the early 1000's.

4. I don't believe the "born again of the spirit" mumbo jumbo and confusion taught by modern christianity. It makes little sense to me and deep down I feel it is a lie.

Flame away, or discuss.

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Born Again" Means That One Has Opened Their "Mind's Eye"
which is a both a physical and psycho-spiritual process.

And yes, early Christianity accepted reincarnation & astrology.

Esoteric Christianity & Judaism still does.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. This is the problem
Then why doesn't the Bible say "open their mind's eye?" The Bible doesn't say that. It says "Born again." "Born again" means born again.

I don't believe what you say about the meaning of that phrase.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Research The Awakening Of Kundalini & Fusing Of Pineal's Brain Sand
And there are euphamisms throughout the Bible.

When one has opened their Third Eye, they become Regenerated... or Born Again.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Oh, so the answers to Bible questions are there?
You mean the explanations of what words really mean are in the sources you cite, instead of in the Bible?

Uh uh. I'm not buying it.

This is the religion rub: "It doesn't mean what it says so you have to rely on me to tell you." That way, they have the power.

I don't believe it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. You Don't Have To Rely On Anyone. The Truth Unfolds When You Open
Edited on Thu Apr-14-05 09:38 PM by cryingshame
yourself to it.

Edit: And yes, the Old Testament and New Testament were written using Gematria. Hebrew for Torah and Greek & Latin Simplex for the New Testament.

Just as you need to learn the Periodic Table of Elements to be A Chemist... you have to learn the Hebrew alphabet or Latin Simplex to to Qabala or Alchemy.

On the other hand, there are those who open themselves up to Knowledge and Understanding without studying text and go quite far.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Well, the truth has unfolded to me. See my original post.
B-)
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progressivejazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Where in the Bible does it say...
that the Bible is to be taken literally?

If nowhere, why do you believe it?

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hey, Floog. I was struck by your No. 3 above.
There are scholars galore who believe that over many centuries, The Bible has been the victim of added passages and passages taken out -- and lots of them.

It would be a breath-taking find if someone could happen on a Bible used in say, the 4th century, hidden in an earthen pot in a cave in Egypt.

What fun it would be to compare the two editions.
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smiley Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It wouldn't be the same book!
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. That's my vote, also, & that's what drew me to Floog's --
-- list at No. 3.

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Merlot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. I've always taken "you shall be born again" literally
and I've wondered why all these bible reading folks who insist on taking everything else in the bible literally will ignore this one.

When I was around 5 years old and sent to sundy school, I just knew what "born again" meant. I was suprised that everyone else got it wrong! ; )
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smiley Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I read the bible evernight, but consider myself agnostic...
But I get a sense of spirituality in reading the words when I know that those words came from a mind, in a past time.
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Selteri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Christian/Catholic Church beleived in Reincarnation...
Edited on Thu Apr-14-05 09:26 PM by Selteri
at least until they realized that it wasn't popular enough for bringing people in, so they changed it for popularity to being you went to heaven after Jesus came back and otherwise were kept in a 'timeless ageless' state until then.

Then they added purgatory, and began milking it.

You can all thank Constantine, the Sun Worshiper for what he did to Christianity by changing it into a sun and death cult instead of a philosophical religioun where the male and female were equally balanced.

There used to be female priests, but it upset the men too much, so they stopped it.

There used to be marriage for the priests, but they changed that because people started asking questions, so the church decided to change things to making priests Celebate after one of the many Pope Pious (I don't remember the number) decided that priests had to remain pure and chaste, the same with nuns because Sex was ungodly. His logic, the end of the world was comming and priests needed to set an example that they understood that.

They used to accept homosexuality, then they absorbed some sects where homosexuality was very unpopular, then to be gay became bad. (Note, they never accepted lesbians after the female priests were defrocked.)

The list is hugely long, Catholicism has been on the decline for the almost 300 years as has most of Christianity, maybe there is a reason... reason.

(On edit) Modern Christianity resembles very very little of the original faith/ministry.
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smiley Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Constantine needed the support of the oppressed christians
It he hadn't made christianity the national religion christianity wouldn't be what it is today.
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chalky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Whaddaya know....
I'm a pre-Constantinian Christian.

Huh. Didn't see that one coming.
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rainman99 Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I just went to my daughter's school play at a public school
in Texas and the superintendent of the district got up and prayed
about 'freedom' and 'Christ'. In my 48 years, I've NEVER seen that happen.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Also, the threat of eternal hell fire is a far more effective way to
control people than is reincarnation. "Follow the rules or you'll burn in hell" is way scarier than reminding them Jesus said "You reap what you sow" and you may have to come back a few times until you get it right.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.....
...Ever read any of Emmet Fox's work?

<snip>
Emmet Fox
(1886-1951)

One of the most influential New Thought authors of the 20th Century

Emmet Fox was born in Ireland on July 30, 1886, was educated in England, pursued his spiritual career mostly in the United States, and died in France on August 13, 1951. His father, who died before Fox was ten, was a physician and member of Parliament. Fox attended Stamford Hill Jesuit college near London, and became an electrical engineer. However, he early discovered that he had healing power, and from the time of his late teens studied New Thought. He came to know the prominent New Thought writer Thomas Troward.

Fox attended the London meeting at which the International New Thought Alliance was organized in 1914. He gave his first New Thought talk in Mortimer Hall in London in 1928. Soon he went to the United States, and in 1931 was selected to become the successor to the James Murray as the minister of New York's Church of the Healing Christ. Fox became immensely popular, and spoke to audiences in some of the largest halls in the city. He was ordained in the Divine Science branch of New Thought.

While Emmet Fox lived he addressed some of the largest audiences ever gathered to hear one man's thoughts on the religious meaning of life. His books and pamphlets have been distributed to over three million people and it can be conservatively estimated that they have come into the hands of ten million.

<more>
<link> http://cornerstone.wwwhubs.com/emmetfox.htm
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. There is zero substance in your post about that guy
In one paragraph, summarize the beliefs he taught, please.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Check out the link if you would like to know more....
...one paragraph could hardly do justice to a man's lifetime of work and writings.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. To be "born again"
in some cultures refers to the process by which the ego, or the animal (anima, animus) dies and soul is reborn into a spiritual man. But I believe that description falls short because it implies a before and after condition. In Hindu philosophy a series of Chakras is used as a set of reference points as a person gradually gains progressive degrees of enlightenment. So I think that being "born again" is less like a birth and more like a life-long molting process.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. There are many applications of 'born again' in other cultures and other
times, but in the narrow view of the world and history that evangelicals in the U.S. live by, it only means one thing. In contrast to what they believe, I believe in the bumper sticker: "Born right the first time".

Personally, if Theodora, of Justinian and Theodora, DID have all references to reincarnation taken out of the bible, I'm ticked. I think the bible would have been more interesting and meaningful with reincarnation left in.


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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. "Born again" is a metaphor for the four seasons cycle
our root essence is agrarian and knowledge was passed down in the oral tradition through symbology that was memorable. So lets not leave that out of this answer of the big picture.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Does the Bible say it is a metaphor?
Where did you get that information, and the stuff about agrarian and symbology?

Thanks.
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