The Wisconsin pussy cats kill millions of stinking vermin annually

[goodboy]

discuss.

[Viking12]

1. Free roaming cats kill millions of songbirds annually

They are an invasive speices and potentially a significant threat to natural ecosystems.

[goodboy]

3. do they only eat songbirds? (nt)

[TX-RAT]

39. Nope

They eat Quail,Dove,Snipe,Grouse and anything else their big enough to take down.

[goodboy]

42. what sorts of vermin do you think they eat? (nt)

[TX-RAT]

49. Anything their big enough to take down.

whats your point?

[goodboy]

71. the point is we're only discussing how they kill songbirds, and not

vermin...can't have it both ways.

[ihaveaquestion]

8. What Natural Ecosystems?

In the US most natural pretators like bobcat, coyote, lynx, mountain lions and wolves have been wiped out. There is very little natural balance in the "wild" anymore. These feral cats may just be filling a ecological niche that man has opened up.

[goodboy]

9. good point, and it should also be said that not all the cats that will be

killed are 'feral' some poor kid's are gonna have their hearts broken because their cat got out and got shot by some redneck asshole.

[Dorian Gray]

80. Exactly!

It's one thing to grant permits to kill "wild cats," but what people are arguing for is to kill any cat that is unleashed on their property.

It's terrible, and it's going to result in young children losing their beloved pets.

[The Gigmeister]

102. Oh bullshit.

Enough with the hyperbole.

Accidents happen, of course, but that's no reason to get so hysterical.

let me guess...You don't care about all the cute little baby bunnies that are TORTURED to death by feral cats? They don't matter to you? Or, you just conveinently don't think about them when you're making one of your "Let's bash the rednecks" posts?

[goodboy]

105. bunnies are prey, the feral cats are not. so your comparison

is false.

and what do you care if I "bash" a redneck? are you aware that the term "redneck" itself is an insult, or do you not care about that?

[QC]

106. "'Let's bash the rednecks' posts"

Good call. Seems like some can turn absolutely any topic--and I do mean *any* topic--into yet another opportunity to shit on the "rednecks."

BTW, I wonder if it would be better for those poor children if their dear little kitties were shot by a yuppie "sportsman" with a $3,995 Caesar Guerini Tempio shotgun?

[goodboy]

107. I don't think that's a fair comparison, simply because "yuppies"

aren't gonna hunt these things, not when they can afford to go on safari in wildlife preserves etc.

furthermore, are you aware that the terms "yuppie" and "redneck" are derogatory in and of themselves? and who cares?

[QC]

108. Yes, I am well aware that "redneck" is an insult.

Specifically, it is a classist slur. Why do you feel compelled to drag it into contexts that have little or no connection to it?

As for who cares, I definitely care when "progressives" validate the right wing stereotype of the "liberal elitist" and thus make thing much harder for those of us who are actually out in the real world trying to get people to vote Democratic. I also care as a person who comes from the class that more fortunate, comfortable people have long delighted in bashing as "rednecks."

[goodboy]

109. You are not a redneck, and If I may say, I wouldn't think in a million

years you'd be defending "deliverance" types, or "wrong turn" types which is really who I"m referring to. I apologize if I hurt your feelings.


BTW I grew up in the Ohio River Valley near WHeeling WV...I know.

[QC]

110. It's no biggie--check your PM's. n/t

[goodboy]

111. thanks. nt

[Zuni]

16. excellent point

deer have overpopulated because their natural predators have gone.

Little housecats might be improving the balance for the ecosystem.

[goodboy]

20. now if a cat could take down a deer...I'd pay to see that. (tn)

[Zuni]

21. perhaps a pack of wild, feral kittens?

That would make excellent footage for one of Fox's 'Caught on Tape' type shows.

[ihaveaquestion]

27. Cute! Photoshop anyone?

[ironflange]

41. Check my sig line

[goodboy]

44. hilarious! BTW that doesn't 'look' like a feral cat, but I guess since

it isn't under the control of the owner, it's doomed.

[ihaveaquestion]

117. Very funny - thanks!

[ihaveaquestion]

23. Larger predators keep smaller animals from overpopulating

including smaller predators. If there were enough bobcat, bear and mountain lions, then feral cats probably wouldn't be a problem. The balance is gone from our "wild" land. Most of the country is like a wildlife park that has to be managed to maintain any kind of balance. Shooting feral cats might be justified to do this, but I really doubt it.

[goodboy]

24. I agree. and shooting them isn't the solution, especially when chances

are, you'll be shooting someone's pet.

[Zuni]

57. agreed

Wisconsin makes me :grr:

[youthere]

30. I agree that there needs to be some sort of management..

shooting them? Surely there must be some other way that could isolate the feral cats rather than someone's beloved pet.

[Inland]

34. Reintroduce wolves and coyotes. nt

[Ready4Change]

46. In my area, coyotes are making a comeback.

Cats, outside pets and feral, are the major attraction, imo.

[Inland]

96. Coyotes blamed for small dogs disappearing from yards in suburban Chicago

And I suppose a cat would be a good meal too, although tougher to catch, since a cat wouldn't try standing up to a coyote.

I've seen them at the side of roads, and in the forest preserves there are warnings around their dens--they are passive until you stumble onto some cubs.

[TX-RAT]

43. deer have overpopulated because their natural predators have gone.

No, deer have over populated because of all the artificial environments created by man. Re, crops, game ranch's, home owners gardens and lawns. It's a better environment for deer now than ever before.

[TX-RAT]

36. So many thing wrong with this, i don't know where to start.

(In the US most natural pretators like bobcat, coyote, lynx, mountain lions and wolves have been wiped out.)
A link to back that up would be nice. Because thats certainly not the case here. The numbers of Coyotes and Bob cats are at an all time high on my place and my neighbors.

(There is very little natural balance in the "wild" anymore.)
Your definition of natural balance please.

(These feral cats may just be filling a ecological niche that man has opened up.)
No they are making a niche because of mans irresponsibility's. Other native species filled that niche nicely.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

58. Defenders of wildlife, thats your source.

No unbiased opinions there.

(You first :P )
No answer, well that really doesn't surprise me.


(Funny how you disagree with me only to agree again.)
Please point out where we agreed.

(You sound like a freepin troll. Are you?)
You might want to take a look at the DU rules for posting. Especially the part about calling people names.
To self delete would be honorable, i don't like to hit the alert button.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TX-RAT]

88. Self Deleted

[HereSince1628]

40. Coyotes are actually doing quite well in Wisconsin

Feral housecats are definitely occupying a niche, but I'm not sure they are filling a niche vacated by any of the species you mention.

I have watched cats WITH COLLARS hunt on my farm and seen them take yellow warblers, bobolinks, baby rabbits, voles, and garter snakes. All things that one or more of the native omnivores or predators (that are present) also eat.

I am reasonably sure that in Jefferson Co. WI the prey of any "empty" niche cats might occupy are already being harvested by another species.

To me the house cat "niche" seems to be special compared to the other predators you mention because of house cats' degree of tolerance to close proximity of human activity.

[Viking12]

68. So you are arguing that since we....

fucked it up already we can continue to make a larger impact? :eyes:

Sure, humans have changed all sorts of ecosystems but that is no excuse to further degrade them.

Aldo Leopold sums it up well:

Each substitution of a tame plant or animal for a wild one, or an artificial waterway for a natural one, is accompanied by a readjustment in the circulating system of the land. We do not understand or foresee these readjustments; we are unconscious of them unless the end effect is bad...we are so busy with new tinkerings to think of end effects

To keep every cog and wheel is the first precaution of intelligent tinkering.

"A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise."

[ihaveaquestion]

87. Are feral cats really causing a negative impact?

That's the question.

I imagine that the number of songbirds killed by these cats can be estimated, but even if it can be shown that they're killing more birds than they have in previous years - someone has to be making an assumption about what the "right" number of songbirds is - the number that reflects the natural state of things. No one was keeping these stats before white man came to the continent and began killing off the predator population.

Humans generally like songbirds, but that doesn't mean they're supposed to be as plentiful as we would like them to be. This is the kind of thinking (songbirds = good : predators = evil) that our ancestors used to get rid of the "killers" in the wild.

[Ready4Change]

112. Here's a quick estimate.

Watching the news I heard that Wisconsin is estimating they have around a million feral cats. Let's assume that's a bloated figure put out to support this hunting initiative and that the real number is half that, or 500,000.

Lets also say these cats survive mostly on vermin and garbage can surprises. But one day a week they get lucky and dine on sparrow.

52 weeks a year. Times 500,000 feral cats.

Thats 26 million birds.

[ihaveaquestion]

116. I doubt that every feral cat gets a bird each week.

They'd have to be very lucky indeed!

This estimate also doesn't take into account the winter when most cats won't get anything to eat for days/weeks at a time. In the radio report I heard a few days ago, they said that most of the cats die of cold and hunger each winter and then the population rebounds in the spring. Therefore most of the cats counted have to be kittens or youngsters and therefore not likely to be very good at hunting birds.

Regardless, the raw numbers of birds killed doesn't say anything about whether that's a good or a bad thing for the bird population or the ecology of the area or how good or how bad.

The impact of suburban sprawl is a much bigger problem. How many birds are on the brink of extinction because of humans cutting down the forests? Birds who can live in suburbs are OK, but what about those who need the cover of the trees?

[Zuni]

13. I hardly think little housecats who escaped from their home

which could be shot under this law, are a grave threat to the ecosystem.

Power lines are a bigger threat to songbirds.

Man is a bigger threat to the ecosystem. If nature is what we care about, why don't we start executing people, or burning strip malls and gas stations?

[TX-RAT]

28. why don't we start executing people,

Wow, another suggestion to kill people.

Just who do you want to start with?

[Zuni]

59. I am saying if killing cats is so important to the eco system

If your concern about the ecosystem is enough to shoot a neighbors cat, why don't you shoot the guy in the SUV, or burn the polluting plant or shoot the head of a major polluting company.
It was sarcasm :sarcasm: I am not advocation any killing, burning. I was making a point. If your concern about the ecosystem is so great, why not go after the real offenders---men/developers/SUVS
Cats are hardly a major threat to the eco system. Developers are.

[TX-RAT]

78. These are wild cats

Born and raised in the wild, they've never had any human contact, and they damn sure aren't somebody's pet.

(why don't you shoot the guy in the SUV, or burn the polluting plant or shoot the head of a major polluting company.)
The day they start killing my quail and young turkey's we'll talk about it.

[Inland]

35. The cats ARE a threat from man.

We brought them there, let them loose--in fact, I bet that even a feral cats spends half its time hunting garbage and handouts.

Can't use that reasoning.

[Zuni]

61. But they are like the 1235 biggest threat in the area

roads, powerlines, sewage, development, suburban communities, runoff of oil and gas from the roads, those plastic six pack thingers, airplanes, cars that run over wildlife daily, trains, airplanes


all of those are more dangerous than housecats.

If it is nature they really care about, then they can do a lot better than shoot people's pets that excaped from the house.

[Inland]

94. True, but still

roads and powerlines don't reproduce themselves until a food supply runs out or a contagion sweeps through their ranks.

Plus, roads and airlines provide benefit for somebody. Even the cats are victimized by a feral existence.

I'm not saying shooting them is the answer, but something should be done.

[goodboy]

95. it is inevitable that pets will be wrongly killed, and IMO it is also

inevitable that redneck gun nuts will abuse this and the rammifications could be deadly for humans. Like, if someone shot my pet...it would be very bad for the perpetrator.

[meti57b]

99. It's loss of habitat, that kills birds.

PLIGHT of the VANISHING SONGBIRDS

http://www.defenders.org/defendersmag/issues/spring03/plightsongbird.html

snip
"Birds, of course, are dying from many other causes, including natural ones. The fact is, more than half the population of most bird species die every year. At least 100 million birds die every year from crashing into windows, scientists estimate. But windows, cats, West Nile virus, wind turbines — all those specific causes of death that are apparent in people's backyards -- are not, at present, having any known effect on the population size of any continental bird species, Rappole says. Numbers of individual birds killed simply do not constitute evidence of an overall population decline."
snip

[goodboy]

2. also the states criteria for determining what a "feral" cat is, is much

broad. any cat without a collar? My cat doesn't wear a collar.

[rodeodance]

4. send a few to congress, the WH etc etc

[goodboy]

6. I'm not sure the cats will eat shit. (nt)

[BringEmOn]

47. Save a Republican, kill a shit eating cat

[rodeodance]

5. Sales will dramaically increase for cat collars!!

[goodboy]

7. I don't know if you've ever tried to put a collar on a cat, but it 'tain't

fun. they hate it. at least every cat I've owned hated it.

[rodeodance]

76. mine too. I have given up-as they eventually lose them.

[Zuni]

11. any cat not under control of the owner

ie---a little housecat who managed to escape for a romp in the woods.

This law is savage and it should be stopped now.

[goodboy]

25. no cat is under the control of the owner...don't they know cats only

come around when they want to.

[Zuni]

62. exactly

if my cat escaped and wandered in to some assholes yard in Wisconsin he would be fair game.

That is absolutely barbaric.

[Zuni]

15. exactly---any cat outdoors, who is not under owners control

so it is open season on peoples pets.

But, it's for the *ecosystem* that we do far more damage to than 1 million cats.

If we just execute Cat hunters and recycle their SUVs, we would preserve the ecosystem better

[Maru Kitteh]

73. Cats have little rubber bones

very pliable. If one wants a cat to wear a collar you pretty much have to start that process shortly after they're born. Mine shoot any collar I try to put on them with laser beams until they fall off.

[goodboy]

74. my cat is vindictive....if I put a leash on her, or collar, she'll wait an

hour or more until she thinks I've forgotten about it, and run up and claw the shit outta me.

[Zuni]

10. The law in Wisconsin says any cat not under control by the owner

ie, even a house cat who has escaped for a romp in the woods is fair game.

It is sick, and brutal. Open season on Pets in Wisconsin

[Maru Kitteh]

75. Pump a couple of rounds into Bubba's coon hound

and see what happens though. Time to teach you a lessin' now - ya! Sick bastard rednecks.

[goodboy]

93. Finally! Thanks for saying what I was just thinking...if that dog don't

got a collar, it's the old yeller treatment.

[LizW]

12. Neighborhood cats on my street kill lots of rodents

and I have never seen one with a bird. Not that they don't go after birds, it just seems that they are much more successful with the rodents.

I don't mind my neighbors' yard cats at all. Chipmunks are cute, but they dig up my plants and beds if there's nothing to keep them in check, so I'm glad the cats are around.

[goodboy]

14. chipmunks decimated my wifes garden last year...I think they're cute too,

but not when you've spend hundreds of dollars on bulbs and shit, and you come home to half-eaten tulip bulbs.

it's not cute then.

[northzax]

17. then why are there still republicans in Wisconsin?

hmm?

[goodboy]

18. because the cats aren't finished yet.,,,also I think the pukes

taste bad from their steady diet of crow.

[northzax]

31. well ok, I'll buy that

but explain the continung existence of Bud Selig...

[goodboy]

33. he's a demon? (nt)

[Inland]

19. They are looking out for you, goodboy.

[goodboy]

22. I give up! I'm on your side! (nt)

[ucmike]

26. i'd hope that the cat shooting will be limited to rural areas

i would imagine that wisconsin law prohibits hunting in neighborhoods. so your pet cat should be relatively safe if you don't live in a really rural area. i can't imagine cat vigilantes scouring residential neighborhoods looking for uncollared cats. i know that in every residential neighborhood i've ever lived in you couldn't fire a gun despite the state hunting laws.

anyway, i'd hope that hunting in wisconsin is limited to undeveloped areas where most of the cats would be feral. i'd be surprised if you could fire off a .22 near your neighbors. again, i'd also hope that the hunters of wisconsin are mostly responsible.

i'm not in favor of cat hunting, but it seems there's a problem with feral cats in wisconsin, and i know what cats can do to the local bird and mammal population.

[goodboy]

29. cat haters have done worse to cats than shoot them. they torture them

and any redneck asshole can and will look for cats to kill now that they have a mandate to do it. they don't have to be shot, get a couple beers in ol' billy bob and he'll find a creative way to kill 'em.

[Zuni]

65. yes. This is a nightmare

this gives legality for sadists and ghouls to do whatever they want, to any cat. They can just take the collar off a neighborhood cat and say its a stray

[Zynx]

32. Illegal to hunt within two hundred yards of road or occupied building

So yeah, this is only going to happen in rural areas.

[Zuni]

63. It'll happen

the slaughter of innocent pets will be frightful.

This law needs to be shot down ASAP

[Botany]

37. Feral cats are a problem ......

...... Feline leukemia and ecological disruption are just some of the problems
caused by "kittens gone wild."

With the introduction of non native shrubs such as honeysuckle and buckthorn
birds such as the wood thrush nest closer to ground and they are easy prey for
cats, raccoons, and such. These are not Mr. Boom Booms who crap in the litter
pan and then chases yarn around the room but generations of killer kats that need
dispatched.

BTW for cat lovers out there .... get your cat fixed ......
Me I am off to Wisconsin to catch some baby kittens so as to use them
to troll for monster muskies. For some reason nothing gets a big pike
or muskie going like a little tabby live hooked and trolled top water.
:sarcasm:

[goodboy]

38. nobody's saying they're not a problem, but with the broad brush definition

of "feral" some "mr. boom boom's" are gonna get shot. Redneck assholes love this kinda shit, and they'll go out of their way to kill things.

[Zuni]

64. exactly. Sadists and cat haters and just plain ghouls

will shoot any cat now that they have the opportunity.

Wisconsin-the state that gave us Ed Gein and Jeffery Dahmer (Dahmer at least started with killing and torturung animals and collecting roadkill)

[Maru Kitteh]

79. So get rid of the non-native shrubs then! If we're so worried about

invasive species lets start there! You planning on blowing away every racoon in the state to save your wood thrush too? Doubt it. This isn't about songbirds. This isn't about "resoring the natural order" or any of the other bullshit reasons I've seen bandied about defending this ugly regressive sadistic neandertal behavior. I'ts about some backwards knuckle-dragging rednecks who want official permission to indulge in cruelty.


Letting underdeveloped shitwits blow away kittens IS NOT THE ANSWER.

[Ready4Change]

45. Personal, mixed, experiences and opinion.

My household has 3 "permament" cats. All 3 are cats we took in because other people didn't want them or said they could no longer keep them.

Last summer we rescued a family of 4 (more) cats. A female stray and her 3 feral kittens. We still have them. The kittens are young cats now, and we continue the process of getting them used to people. They have a safe home with us for as long as needed, but are available for adoption should we find someone willing to spend the effort needed for them. (IM me if you're interested, btw. MD/DC/Baltimore area.)

I say all the above as evidence that I DO love cats.

Now here comes the other foot.

When we took the strays in, ALL had worms, fleas, and were malnourished. The 3 kittens all had watering eyes and running noses from colds/infection. They were about to die in the summertime, and I'd sure none would have survived the winter. These weren't happy kitties frolicing in the wild. They were miserable and starving.

We took them in for shots, de-fleaing and nuetering at a local feral Rescue, Trap/Nueter/Release clinic. I was SHOCKED at the number of cats brought into that little clinic on that single day. Literally hundreds.

Talking amongst my neighbors I found several others who had taken in strays and ferals as we had that summer. I'm no isolated case.

So, ferals are a real problem. Most lead miserable lives. Starving and freezing and dieing of disease. All have very shortened lifetimes. Shooting them may be cruel, but so is allowing them to die more lingering deaths from other causes.

Take responsibility for your pets.

Having an "outside cat" is actually just having a stray-to-be. The mother of our ferals is clearly used to people, so it's possible she was someone elses outside cat. No longer. She's ours now, clean, healthy and happy, and her former "owners" can rot in hell.

For existing ferals, TNR programs show promise, but aren't widespread enough to have anything more than local effects. If you can't establish TNR, then your choice is either quick kills via bullets or slow kills via starvation, disease, exposure, or poisoning (which is another feral control method that has been used.)

It's a harsh situation that won't go away purely by thinking happy thoughts. If you object to shooting then you better be involved with providing alternatives.

I'll monitor this and respond to objections to my opinion. Thanks in advance for reasoned debate.

[demnan]

50. I agree with your points

feral cats live a miserable sub-standard existence. But at least well meaning people who trap and neuter feral animals have an easier time of it if the animals aren't trained by experience that humans will kill them.

The law in Wisconsin might just exasperate the problem. Cats are relatively intelligent beings, and they will hide from humans if they have been exposed to loud bangs and their brothers falling down dead in front of them.

[Ready4Change]

83. I suppose that's a point.

It could be the methods used to get them under control are a matter of economics?

I don't have facts on this. I'd guess that an effective, statewide TNR effort would involve the hiring and ongoing employment of dozens, including establishing several dedicated clinics with licensed vets to handle the neutering, etc... Pretty expensive.

Whereas the hunting program can be accomplished via existing game wardens, or maybe hiring a couple more. Comparably cheap.

I could be wrong. Are there any numbers/estimates of these measures?

[Redstone]

98. "Having an "outside cat" is actually just having a stray-to-be."

Thank you, thank you for pointing this out.

Now, if a few cat people would just LISTEN to you, we might make some progress. And maybe I wouldn't have to keep chasing the filthy little bastards out of my gardens.

Oh, and cat people, don't bother telling me that I should talk to the owners. I have. They always offer the same, lame excuse "It's just the way cats are, there's nothing I can do about it."

Redstone

[DeusIrae]

48. I like Cats too.

However I think this is a smoke screen story to divert our attention from the power grab against the courts.

A couple of other states including Minnesota already allow the shooting of feral cats.

As a 13+ year vegetarian and cat lover I find this very silly.
We should be concerned with the respect for all life including all animals.

50 Million Dogs a year are killed in shelters.
Conditions in poultry\hog operations are abhorrent and inhumane at best.

And you are concerned with the hunting of an overpopulated feral cat population that loses half it's population yearly to freezing and malnutrition.

Is there more value in the life of a wild cat or a domesticated swine?
Silly question, I know.

Lets focus on the real issues this country is facing, not these knee jerk smokescreen stories the MSM puts out to keep us from being effective.

[Maru Kitteh]

81. As a vegan I totally agree with you about the cruelty of factory farms

the brutal slaughter of 10 BILLION with a B animals every year but I like to take the approach that discouraging cruelty whenever possible is a good thing. The 50 million animals put down in shelters are not chased down by drunken rednecks and shot with cheap small grade ammunition while their buddies hoop and holla.

I just don't think handing underdeveloped hicks with a sadistic streak a license to indulge will move our society in the right direction. But that's just me.

[nonconformist]

51. Thanks to a couple of feral cats that live in the woods behind me

I haven't had a single mouse in this house in the 2 years I've lived here. I'd also have a major problem with copperhead snakes and wouldn't be able to let my children play in the backyard - but the cats control them.

[goodboy]

56. well there ya go! nt

[Ready4Change]

86. As a counterpoint...

When I took in our family of ferals I suddenly noticed the return of the songbirds and chipmonks who had been standards in our backyard since we moved here. I hadn't realized their absence, but their re-appearance was a forgotten pleasure.

On the plus side, since the cats are now inside, the mice are still in check.

Admittedly copperheads outside aren't an issue where I live. I can't counter that part.

[nonconformist]

103. Copperheads

The joy of Kentucky! *shudder*

I'm a native Michigander and they creep me the hell out.

As far as birds go, we have a lot and I haven't noticed any decrease in their numbers. This is not to say that the cats have never killed birds, but I've not witnessed it nor have I noticed fewer birds hanging out in my backyard.

[DrDebug]

52. Remember The Stephens Island Wren

From fossils that have been found around New Zealand, scientists know that the Stephens Island Wren could once be found on the North and South Islands, as well as Stephens Island. However the only European to ever see the Stephens Island wren alive was David Lyall, the lighthouse keeper on Stephens Island in 1894. Stephens Island is the northern-most island in the Marlborough Sounds.

The wren was a very tiny bird, about the size of a silvereye – a native species often seen in New Zealand gardens. The wren was flightless and David Lyall described the bird as running about like a mouse.

How did the Stephens Island wren become extinct? It was eaten by the lighthouse keeper’s cat!

David Lyall reported that his cat had brought him 17 birds, which were all the same species (they were later named the Stephens Island wren). Because the cat was good at hunting and the wren could not fly, the wren became extinct soon after it was discovered. In fact, the Stephens Island wren was discovered and then became extinct within the space of a year – the only bird known to have this happen.
http://www.kcc.org.nz/birds/extinct.asp

So that's one entire species killed by one cute little kitten.

P.S. I love cats and they hunt birds as part of their nature

[Zuni]

67. If there were only 17 of them

they weren't going to last very long anyway. Some other predator must have decimated their ranks previously

[ForrestGump]

114. Exactly. Ditto the other extinctions in NZ, all of which

were (some flightless) birds the evolved in the absense of mammalian predators. It was the Maori-introduced rat and (to a lesser extent) dog, and the Maoris themselves, followed by Brits and their introduced mustelids (stoats, weasels, ferrets), that did the most damage. Competition from European bird species and habitat destruction did the rest.

Cats weren't the culprit there. This whole Wisconsin thing is a total crock. F*** those who'd blow away kitties based on excuses that are largely unfounded.

[LynneSin]

53. Mosts states will not allow you to hunt 150-250yds of occupied areas:

I know PA game laws best and found this quip:

It is unlawful to hunt for, shoot at, take, chase or disturb a turkey within 150 yards of any occupied residence, camp, industrial or commercial building, farm building, school or playground without permission of the occupants. Hunting on hospital and institutional grounds, and in cemeteries, is also prohibited.

I'm assuming that Wisconsin has something similar since obviously we don't want folks hunting someplace where people are doing their day to day life.

I don't know about Wisconsin, but you're not going to find too many ferral cats living far away from where people are living. Even though these cats live in vermin and songbirds, they also live near garbage dumpsters, barns and other areas where they can easily find food. Which means you aren't going to find too many ferral cats running around free at least in the State Game Lands. See, cats are also smart - living near occupied areas give them plenty of hiding spaces away from "Predators" Living the forests where hunting occurs would not be an idea living space for cats since they could be easily hunted and food would be harder to find.

So taking out of the picture my disgust at assholes wanting to kill cute kitty cats, the big picture is this practice could be unsafe. Unless a farmer agrees that someone could hunt on their property to reduce the numbers, there are limited areas where cat hunting could be function.

And speaking of function - what purpose does it serve to kill cats? We're not using their fur, we're not eating their meat - we're killing these for the pure sport of hunting. And believe me, I've always supported hunters but only because I love wild game meat. I cannot support killing a creature that serves no purpose other than to shoot a gun!

[goodboy]

54. thank you lynne for making that point. kick for LYNN!!! YES!!! (NT)

[Zuni]

69. amen, Ms. Lynne

I think this whole idea is just a way for deviants and sadists to get off, and the whole ecosystem bullshit is designed to make it sellable.

Fuck anyone who endorses Wisconsins Cat-murderers. Fuck them all. I don't care who you are, but if you support this barbarism, this giveaway to animal torturers, pyscho-gun nuts, serial killers in the making, sadists and sexual deviants you are fucking nuts.

There are many better ways to do this. This will end in tragedy as pyscho cat haters will take this to mean they can kill anything that is in their line of sight.


FUCK YOU CAT HATERS :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Viking12]

84. This isn't about "murdering" cats

Your attempt to turn this discussion into some visceral, name-calling contest really ignores the issues. However, if that is really the way you feel, then perhaps you should add the hypocrits to your list of people that should get fucked. You know those people, the ones that use computers that are run by electricity and made from petroleum products which are responsible for the demise of many creatures. "Murderers" one and all - even if they don't actually have blood on their hands, they are nevertheless responsible. People in glass houses and all that.....

[Maru Kitteh]

85. Um, what Zuni just said

I'd like to second that. :applause: :woohoo: :applause:

[kerry-is-my-prez]

60. This is how the black plague started - they killed all the cats

They are talking about doing this in other states. Don't people realize that when a predator is eliminated, there are ramifications. Another pest goes out of control.

Would you rather have rats or cats?

[Zuni]

70. exactly

the Plague would have been far less devestating if cats had kept the vermin under control

[Zynx]

91. I doubt this...rats EAT cats.

A grown rat versus most cats is pretty even. And rats come in large groups.

[Ready4Change]

113. You sound like you've been to New York, NY.

:)

[DrGonzoLives]

66. mmmmmmmmmm, the sweet smell of flamebait

Of course, the cat-lovers need to be able to show their outrage about something often, so at least this flamebait serves a purpose.

[goodboy]

72. We need to be fair and balanced here, gonzo. (nt)

[GiovanniC]

77. They Must Be Stopped!

ALL life is important, even stinking vermin!

Or are stinking vermin somehow less worthy?

These cats must be stopped, and killing them is the only way to do it!

[goodboy]

89. I understand what you're saying...and thanks for posting. (nt)

[rniel]

90. We need to teach those cats

That's a no no. Don't hurt the mice you bad little kitty kat. And while we're at it we need to stop the mountain lions from killing the deer. We need to educate them that it's inhumane and they might hurt the deer's feelings.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

92. I can forsee a lot of lawsuits, fights and violence....

There are going to be a lot of po'd cat owner out there when their cat gets shot.

[goodboy]

97. yep. and bubba, and billy bob, and cooter will certainly abuse this

to cater to their morbid drunken fantasies. Inevitably this will get out of hand.

someone also mentioned earlier that this is how the plague started.

[Logansquare]

100. I saw a feral cat eating a bird once--a pigeon

Wisconsin can send all it's feral cats to Chicago, and send some ladders too so they can get up under the overpasses and reduce our flying rat population.

I don't understand why hunting is considered a solution to this problem, except that there's certain class of hunters who hunger after more stuff to shoot. First mourning doves, now cats!

If you love your songbirds, trap feral cats and find homes for them or euthanize them humanely. While your at it, stop buying tropical woods and non-shade grown coffee, because it's destroying songbirds' winter homes. Stop sprawling on farm and wild lands, because the birds don't live in "luxury townhomes."

And stop using Chemlawn on your fucking golf courses, because the beautiful streams that used to team with frogs and fish and crayfish are now crystal clear, and poisoned.

[goodboy]

101. that's called creative thinking...too bad pukes and half the country

can't do it.

[goodboy]

104. disease infested vermin or songbirds?

[goodboy]

115. deer aren't safe either...Photo>>

<>