A question of turned tables & protesters: how to get oneself flamed!

[Stinky The Clown]

I'm not posting this to get flamed or to invite a flame war, I promise.

There is another thread that links to an NPR show that shows some of the Schiavo protesters were paid shills. We all know the mob in the famous Florida2000 "storming of the polls" were, indeed, paid Capitol Hill staffer/shills.

But even though that has happened and been documented, many right wing protesters may well simply be the mirror image of us. We obviously disagree with their posits, but how are they different from left wing protesters?

I'm not talking about the issues here. I'm talking about the protesters themselves. The people. How are we different from them? We can be loud. We can even be obnoxious. We get arrested. They get arrested. We mock the media covering us. They mock the media covering them. We have attention whores who get camera face time. They have attention whores who get camera face time.

What's the difference between their protesters and our protesters?

Again, this is a serious post, not intended to start a flame war or to invite flames of me.

[SouthernDem2004]

1. Aside from the issues.... nothing....

[hippiepunk]

2. Im pretty sure

no liberal protestors were ever paid whores

[Djinn]

15. sometimes they are but don't realise it

I used to work in PR (and have been doing penance in the not for profit sector ever since) every now and then fake community groups were set up and funded that many a well meaning lefty got involved with. Sometimes it was a case of two companies (particularly developers) battling it out - sometimes it's a way to massage public debate, it's a great way to cultivate "acceptable" debate, you side line the "hardcore" and co-opt the moderates and voila you've just neutered the argument.

Was also aware of an instance of paying people to disrupt protests in order to slag off a entire argument as nothing but the rantings of anarchists.

Public Relations practitioners are in the main scum of the earth

[lonestarnot]

3. Not much except we are smarter, but they have more money... therefore

are able to buy the media.

[NMDemDist2]

4. well H2S the first thing that pops to mind is that our

protestors don't get PAID to show up

other than that ......... :shrug:

[Dookus]

I think there's little difference

apart from ideology.

People here cheer when conservatives get shouted down while speaking, or hit with pies or salad dressing. They presume that conservatives are easy to pick out by their horns. They believe any lie that serves their cause.

The more I read DU and Freerepublic, the more convinced I am that they're just flip-sides of the same coin.

[Occulus]

18. There's been a LOT of infighting going on for several weeks, if not months

In fact, I'd say it goes all the way back to the election. FWIW, if we do not learn our lessons and tighten it up here by the end of the summer, I don't think we'll (meaning DU) be able to have a signifigant impact in time to act in 2006.

Guess what? That campaign began on 11/3/2004 if not earlier. WE ARE LATE.

We need to stop being distracted and focus.

[gumby]

19. Are you serious?

Do you really think cheering about shouting down, being hit with a pie or salad dressing is the "flip side" of cheering the demise of counting our votes, cheering for an illegal war that has killed over a hundred thousand people, cheering for the establishment of a regressive quasi-theocracy, cheering for the establishment a neo-fascist one-party State, cheering for a One-World-Corporate Rule?

Wow!

[Dookus]

20. You can pick

the small issues on our side and the big issues on their side, and make that argument.

But in totality, there are the same percentage of irrational nutjobs on both sides.

[Radical Activist]

24. At the Iraq and Bush protests I attended

I didn't see people being as hateful and violent as what the conservatives are doing at their protests. I think that's an important difference.

[gumby]

27. I don't think there's any way that you can support:

"But in totality, there are the same percentage of irrational nutjobs on both sides."

I don't think there are *any* statistics that can confirm anything like that claim. Furthermore, there *are* statistics that show that at least 30% and now climbing to possibly over 35% of the U.S. population that self-describes as 'born-again, conservative Christians.' These are the people that support the "big issues" on "their side," some of which I listed in the first post.

You were the one that listed the "small issues" as an example of the "both side" equation; I didn't "pick" them.

What exactly are the "big issues" that are illustrative of smashing democracy that the "DU side" is "equally" promoting?

Lack of shrillness and democracy are not the same thing.

edit: spellping is not so gud.

[ultraist]

32. I tend to agree with you

At the Shiavo protests, there were people there, like Dendreth, who are linked with hate groups, terrorists groups that bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors.

I see more fanatacism and hate mongers who wish to oppress others on the far right side.

I don't see the far left as being hate group cult followers. I'm not claiming we don't have irrational nut jobs on our side, but religious fanatics are not as common nor are KKK types.

.

[ComerPerro]

5. They are cowards and frauds who feign moral outrage

while living as the ultimate hypocrites.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

6. We're not paid by Delay and sent out there to disrupt

many of the pro-war protesters were paid as well. It's not an unusual practice among the right-wing.

It differs grealy from why we protest. Does the Democratic party pay us to go out there? Uh, no.

[alittlelark]

7. They protest because their churches tell them to and get them riled up.

We protest because our hearts tell us to. We protest because we know... w/ no-one telling us.... that something is WRONG, Horribly WRONG. Independant thinking vs group-think.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

8. What's the difference???? Survey says:

The TRUTH!

We are enlightened.

I loves me relativism.

But only so much. And only so far. Because TRUTH is in there somewhere. Let reason be the guiding light.

[camitche]

9. Nothing really, but people who protest against death

are somehow much less offensive I think. But you're basically right. I've had this discussion with my girlfriend many times.

[alittlelark]

11. So the anti-war protesters must be TRULY respected...

... as opposed to those that protested against a brain-dead woman who wanted to meet her maker 15 years ago.

[camitche]

26. I'm not sure what you mean

[tkmorris]

29. I think the point is......

that the anti-war protestors were protesting against death too, although they were protesting against what has turned out to be over 100,000 dead and cou8nting thus far. Furthermore, Terri Schiavo died for all practical intents and ppurposes years before those protestors had ever heard of her. The courts decided many times that Terri herself did not wish to "live" in such a state as she was in.

In short, if protesting death is the standard the anti-war protestors had a far greater point than the Pinnelas Park loons did.

[camitche]

34. Got it. Thanks.

That's pretty much how I feel about it.

[Radical Activist]

23. If you went to protests on both sides

you would be able to see how different their attitudes and actions are. There is a big difference.

[PA Democrat]

10. I thought that holding that sideshow outside a hospice

where many families are saying their final goodbyes to loved ones was extremely insensitive. Some of the protesters were screaming at everyone that went into the hospice, staff and families of patients alike, and calling them murderers.

"It's been very hard watching a circus outside and be there with her while she was dying," said Susan Agines, a senior nursing supervisor. "I think what finally did it was when the juggler came. To me it was ... awful."

Hospice workers are accustomed to death. Their job is to help families through it. But never has the journey exacted such a toll as this one, said Woodside manager Becky McAllister.

For two weeks, nurses, aides and volunteers had to pass through yelling throngs to get to work. Angry voices accused them of murder.

<snip>

Burnham said protesters often yelled at her during her daily visits to her mother. "They have called us murderers," she said. "They say, "Why are you going to go in there where they kill people?' They have no idea what really goes on in here."

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/02/Tampabay/Routine_returns_a_sen.shtml

[PA Democrat]

14. Also, students at a local school had to be bussed to other schools

for the duration of the protesters encampment. I honestly cannot imagine anti-war protesters being allowed to basically shut down a school. They would have had riot police dispensing tear gas.

And the hospice had to pay for armed security guards out of their own funds, which cuts into funds available for patient care. That's sad.

[Radical Activist]

22. What if liberals did that to troops being sent to Iraq

even while their families were saying goodbye? The media and public would be outraged. Liberals aren't doing those kinds of things. This is a good example of the difference.

[ariellyn]

12. Their protests get news coverage no matter how small..ours don't n/t

[Virginian]

13. It's the ratio, more of them are idiots.

I still can't get over the protesters of 2000, standing outside the Vice President's home at the Naval Observatory shouting for Al Gore to get out of Dick Cheney's house.
It was just too illogical. The Gore family was going to move out of that residence on January 20th, regardless of the outcome of the election. The question was where they were moving to.
I would think that protesters would be trying to cause a change in something. Those protesters were not accomplishing anything other than being noisy. Did they think that because they were there, the Gore family would move out sooner? Did they think their wishes should be more important than the orderly constitutional transfer of power? I could not see the logic in their actions.
I'm sure we have our share of dummies, but that was the dumbest waste of effort I have ever seen. Or maybe it is because the press doesn't cover our protests that I haven't seen any dumb ones.

[gumby]

16. The "Both Sides" equation has been the biggest pr success

of the right since "liberal media." It's ironic that 'moral equivalency' has been such a successful tool wielded by the 'moral absolutists.'

Your question seems to be: since all protesters are people, then what's the difference (beyond physical attributes) because all people can behave in similar ways?

As Tom DeLay would say, it's all about "worldview." People protest because of their minds, not because they have human bodies.

[pacalo]

17. Common sense divides us. Right & wrong divide us.

The protesters on our side are actually supporting the principles provided in our Constitution. The other side is trying to change the Constitution to suit their beliefs, whether it's based on religion, greed, selfishness, or hatred.

There's a difference, also, in why the two sides engage in protests. The progressives protest out of survival; not only are we being ignored in the decision-making process by those running the government, we are banned from having any participation in the decision-making process.

[Radical Activist]

21. There are very strong difference in tactics and approach to protesting.

Speaking as one who has helped organize numerous protests I can say that there are big differences. The paid conservatives protestors are only trying to be disruptive and create chaos and violence. They don't break the law as a matter of principled civil disobedience. They break the law to cause havoc and impose their will violently on others. They more closely resemble the small number of anarchists that cause problems at some protests just for the sake of making the situation worse. Those anarchists and conservatives don't represent the actions of the liberal protesters.

The typical left-wing protester doesn't resemble the anarchists or the paid conservative protesters. They don't get arrested because they caused violent harm to others or were trying to create chaos. Typically, left wing protests are very organized and arrests are well-coordinated and planned in advance. When there is violence at a typically well organized liberal protest it is usually a result of over-aggressive use of force by the police. Protests planned by liberals are designed to be non-violent and they often have plans to police the crowd themselves so things don't get out of control.

For example, the last arrest of a liberal I saw at a protest was someone who refused to be penned up in the "free speech zone" when Bush came for an event. She felt there were basic constitutional rights being violated and that she should be able to protest the President in a place where she could be seen by the President. She sat down with her sign, refused to move, and did not resist when the police arrested her. Three people did that. It was planned, coordinated, and peaceful. There's a big difference between that and what the freepers are doing. There is no comparison.

[Runcible Spoon]

28. these are very good points.

it is absolutely essential that leftist protests be peaceful and highly organized because we need to gain credit with the general public as well as with law enforcement. A few bad apples in Seattle lost us a lot of face and as personally and selfishly satisfied I am whenever corporate art gets demolished or fur coats are spattered with paint I don't think those tactics are ultimately useful. I DO however like the pie in the face routine!

[ultraist]

33. I think the key difference is pro violent people vs. non violent people

Far lefties are usually anti death penalty, anti war and anti violence in general. Far righties are Operation Rescue, Rudolph and Hendreth types who are associated with Christian Identity KKK groups and who feel justified using violence to oppress others.

FR had all sorts of threats against the judges in the Shiavo case during the big circus. Do far lefties make death threats and carry out violent acts? I don't think so, at least not nearly as often. Pacifists believe in non violent means.

[Jesus Saves]

25. The end result is the same

Most of America doesn't like protesters. They turn people off. Most protests backfire in the end.

I say we need to get these nutcases like Randall Terry into the public eye as much as possible.

[zann725]

30. Amy Goodman brought up that very issue on "Hardball" last week.

In her incredibly articulate way, she questioned why NONE of the Iraq War 2nd Anniversary Anti-War protests were covered by the media. How none of those millions of protestors were even discussed or shown on air...as if they and their actions never existed.

There should be NO difference when it comes to Freedom of Speech. But when ONE political party owns all the media...

[Bluebear]

31. Well, our protests seem a little more original

versus