The Pope chose to die

[LilKim]

I wonder how much this will be talked about. Because while he did have doctors with him in his apartment, almost certainly if he was willing to go to a hospital and be fully hooked-up in an intensive care unit, he would still be alive now, and possibly stabilized enough to continue living for days, weeks, who knows how much longer, but obviously in a seriously incapacitated state.

But he chose against that. He chose to die instead. He felt it was time.

I wonder how all these right-to-lifers will reconcile that?

[Locut0s]

1. They are experts at Double-Think they never reconcile anything.

[liberal43110]

2. Prepare to be flamed

I agree with you completely, but when I posted on the subject got thoroughly flamed. Watch out.

:popcorn:

[rodeodance]

7. he choose not to have extraordinary means to stay alive. His choice-

Nothing to be flamed about.

[Evergreen Emerald]

32. oops double post

[Mr_Spock]

19. Flaming Pope?

[Mr_Spock]

20. Gotta get you fill

[Mr_Spock]

23. I'm tired

Are you?

[Tweed]

33. What you said was different than this poster

You said the Catholic Church was being hypocritical. This person is just saying that right-to-lifers are being hypocritical.

Dare I suggest you be stupid elsewhere? I may add that not backing up your opinions with facts or any reasoning is being stupid. Please check your stupidity at the DU General Discussion. Save that kind of stuff for the Lounge please. :hi:

Here's a general rule for you newbie: When people post uninformed opinions, they get flamed.

[Chicago Democrat]

3. Yup he chose to die after it became pointless. I thought he was a

great example.

[Karenina]

30. Of pro-choice?

:evilgrin:

[napi21]

4. Some right to lifers think all Catholics will go to hell anyway!

As to the rest of 'em, who knows. To me, the Pope's decision to recognize that it was his time to meet God was an agreement that it's is OK with the Catholic Church if you have a living will stating that you don't want extraordinary life saving measures taken on you.

I have always felt that way, and I'm glad to see it confirmed by the leader of my Church.

[ultraist]

5. Yes, but he did not defy any of the Catholic stands or his statements

He adhered to the end of life rules, so to speak, of the Catholic church.

I hate to defend pro lifers, but they don't think the lives of the elderly should be prolonged forever.

[eleny]

6. They're talking about this on CNN right now

Just that he chose to be in familiar surroundings instead of all hooked up in a hospital.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

10. As my husband so aptly put it last night when some

bobblehead on MSGOP was talking about that fact last night: "Who wouldn't want to die at home?"

Made perfect sense to me.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

17. I muttered the same thing last night in my pacings

As though that was such an unusual decision!

[Bluebear]

13. And not "connected to a lot of tubes"

I'm sure Dr. Frist would like to have called the Vatican and insist they stick a feeding tube in him.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. Too bad he did not allow Terry S. the same option he gave himself

CNN:
A year ago, Pope John Paul II wrote that doctors have a moral duty to preserve life.

"The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural way of preserving life... not a medical procedure."

[mondo joe]

34. I love when non medical people in funny hats give medical advice.

And funny he doesn't think OXYGEN is as natural as a bag of chemicals pumped into a gut.

[tx_dem41]

35. OK....I'm confused....

the Pope was all for giving Terri water and food by artificial means (i.e. feeding tube), AND this last week he had a feeding tube inserted nasally. So, I don't see where he was a hypocrite at all on this matter.

[MADem]

8. I can't help but find a certain irony in his decision

As a person of faith, he did not, as the end drew near, feel that "going to God" was a BAD thing. If you believe (and I do) the accounts of Valls, the Vatican spokesman and his friend for almost three decades, that he was very content and serene, he clearly made his decision with all the vigor he had remaining, and was pleased with it.

Makes me wonder how that is resonating with certain 'people of (alleged) faith' down there in Pinellas Park, FL. They apparently thought that going to God was not such a nice thing.

[Mr_Spock]

21. Terri & Pope - together

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. Geography

There is also tradition.

Popes die in the Vatican. His hospital is in Rome.

That's a BIG item in the Papal history.

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. He died as he lived, in accordance with the teachings of the Church.

Nothing he chose to do or not do in any way contradicted the teachings of the Chruch.

[tx_dem41]

12. I believe that the distinction is that the Pope was actually DYING from...

...a malady. He was going to die regardless of what artifical measures were taken. You can't compare his situation and Terri's.

NOTE: I was fully for Terri's wishes being carried out, so don't think otherwise.

[izzybeans]

14. Agreed.

I was reminded by one of the cable news channels when a Bishop (I think) said that the Pope does and anyone who is Catholic should but probably aren't viewing this as a rite of passage. He was preparing to "go to the lord" according to this Bishop and so his passing wasn't a tragedy. It should be a celebration. A son has come home so I guess the believers in the after life probably should be looking at it like this too. This way, "choosing" death might not be such a big deal (read-tragedy). But he really didn't choose death, he just choose to die with dignity in an environment of his own choosing. He would have died in the hospital at some point anyway. If he would have had a chance in the hospital he would have went. He did just that the week before. This time he was in septic shock amongst other things.

[Minnesota_Lib]

15. At one point it was reported that they decided not to take him....

to a hospital. He wished to die naturally.

OK....why does the Cult of Pain & Suffering Just to Make Us Feel Good not protest?

I mean, they could have plugged his body into enough tubes to keep it functioning even though his mind was dead. In that way, they could have propped him up and wheeled him out in front of the "Keep the brain-dead Alive for our Pleasure" crowd once or twice a year. It would be really moving...in a really sick kind of way.

Maybe they can pump his corpse full of cemicals and bring him back to full drooling, mind-dead life. Put the body...err, I mean, the Pope.. in front of a TV and replay "Ave Ventura" over and over. I bet over a fifteen year period he would seem to laugh a few times.

Man, I'd tune into FAUX for daily coverage of that.

[tx_dem41]

16. He was actively dying....

...no artifical means could have kept him alive by any definition. The comparison with Terri is not apt.

[Nikia]

22. I don't think that he would have survived very long

He had multiple organs failing because of septic shock. His body was what was failing rapidly, not his brain. From what I understand, he was conscious until near the end. Unlike most of us, he also did have multiple doctors with him.
He didn't die from not receiveing nourishment. He was up doing stuff until Thursday. When your body is rapidly failing, any treatment that they do, like surgery becomes risky anyway. He would have died in the hospital in less than a week if not even sooner than he did.

[Mr_Spock]

18. Pope

[Glenda]

24. LOL!! Mr Spock, you are adding a lot to the conversation!

:applause:

[Mr_Spock]

25. All it needs to say is Pope and I'm a happy man

Man, can't get enough of these Pope threads!

[Glenda]

26. It's a funny word too: pope pope pope

say it over and over again!

:hi:

[Mr_Spock]

27. Mmmm, popelicious!! Makes me hungry just thinking about it!

:D

[Glenda]

28. Personally, I think you went mad with the Terri issue...

and now don't know what to do with yourself :)

[Mr_Spock]

29. Terri & Pope - together

A match made in heaven (really bad joke there) :)