Can we not have an endless series of Pope jokes today

[Az]

Sorry but targeting the ailing Pope for jokes today is just insulting and on a humor level just tired and obvious. There are many Democratic Catholics here. Please. This is not an easy thing for them. Lets be decent about this with one another. There will be time again when we can discuss our differences. Now is not the time to assail them.

[ananda]

1. I know..

.. they're too good for him. -His- vatican has no sense of humor, and no sense of where people in the modern world are going or what they need.

Sue

[ret5hd]

2. sure...ok...if thats what you want, sure.

april fools

[OKNancy]

3. From DU Rules

This might be a good place to post from our rules:


With regard to religion (or the lack thereof), Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, and others. All are welcome here. For this reason, we expect members to make an extra effort to be sensitive to different religious beliefs, and to show respect to members who hold different religious beliefs. Members are permitted to discuss whether they agree or disagree with particular religious beliefs, provided that they do so in a relatively sensitive and respectful manner. But members should avoid posting broad-brush bigoted statements about people who hold specific religious beliefs. Members should avoid highly provocative postings, such as comparing religion to fairy tales or mental illness, or arguing that religion (or the lack thereof) is the source of most of the world's problems.

[tx_dem41]

4. Thanks for posting this, Nancy.

IMO, the most abused rule on DU.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[_TJ_]

46. Problem is...

...if you FORCE people to be tolerant all you end up with is
censorship. People have to choose to be tolerant themselves.

I would never deliberately attack someone's beliefs, and I don't
like having my beliefs attacked - but I think people should be
free to criticise my beliefs if they want to.

I just ask that they don't out of common courtesy.

Forcing courtesy on people will just give us a PC nightmare
that stifles free debate :(

[Maru Kitteh]

47. I can go with that if ALL rules are thrown out. ALL of them

Otherwise it's just selective censorship. You really want to see DU turn into the Yahoo "message" boards?

I guess if that's the way it goes, that's the way it goes, but I'll not turn over my hard earned cash to support it.

[_TJ_]

49. I happen to think all restrictions on free speech...

...are counter-productive - except deliberate attacks on individual
members of the group.

You are quite right to say all other situations are selective
censorship - it's what we have now and I'm not sure it's the
best way to do things.

My gut tells me that the overwhelming majority of people on DU
are much nicer and smarter than the average cretin in the street.
These are liberal, educated people who value free debate and
for the most part respect each other.

Sure there are a few jerks here too, but even with no restrictions,
I think debate here would always be much more courteous than on
the net at large.

My 0.2c

[tx_dem41]

56. "Free speech" does not exist on a PRIVATE forum. n/t

[_TJ_]

59. It can do if you really want it to! nt

[johnnie]

5. I agree with you

I don't usually get involved on threads that bash spiritual leaders, including the Pope, but I was thinking this last night.
There are a lot of Catholics that are Democrat and to alienate them because of a dislike for a major religion is just tacky. It's one thing to say something about a religion, but to go on and on about the death of the Pope is just senseless.
I'm sure we will see enough of it though. People can't help it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

6. Thank you, Az!

:pals:

[etherealtruth]

7. Graciousness, empathy and kindness are often lacking ...

... in the world,thank you for displaying all three.

[Cooley Hurd]

8. How many Popes does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Answer: Just one, and several insensitive DUers to mock him while he does it...

Sadly, this isn't a joke...:(

[lonestarnot]

9. Az where is your sense of humor in times like these? We need humor

and how many popes does it take to poo? One and he's about too!

[Az]

11. Humor is vital

Critical even. Have you seen my avatar? But there is a time and place for it. And this is not an even playing field for it. The humor we would throw at the Pope will not strike everyone the same way. And for many the impact would be cruel. There are so many more appropriate targets. I hear there is this village Idiot named George that may be a ripe target.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. Oh, please. Cry me a river.

[tx_dem41]

13. Just a call for a little class towards Catholic DUers and others...

if you choose not to provide it, so be it.

[sendero]

12. I agree..

.... whether you love the pope or you do not, there is no question he was trying to be a force for good. He deserves some measure of respect at the end of his life.

[American in Asia]

14. I agree too

I'm not a Catholic, but I also would find such jokes distasteful now. His slow deterioration reminds me so much of my grandmother, who died of Parkinson's in much the same way a few years ago. Two months after her long and painful struggle ended, we learned my father has the same dreadful disease. I have nothing but sympathy for him as a human being at this time.

[Zenlitened]

21. But in the eyes of many, he was NOT trying to be a force for good.

I hope you'll understand that some people feel terribly, terribly hurt by this man. Whether expressing that hurt through 'jokes' is acceptable or not, I'll leave others to debate. But please understand that he is NOT viewed as a good man by all progressives.

[Terran]

25. I dissent

whether you love the pope or you do not, there is no question he was trying to be a force for good

For many of us, there are plenty of questions on that issue. But that's for another thread.

[sniffa]

15. how about former popes?

i've got some kiLLer pius IV jokes.

[progressoid]

57. Pius IV cracks me up

Did ya hear the one about Pius IV at the Council of Trent?

:spray:

[dolo amber]

16. While we're asking for the impossible...

Can each DU member send me $10 please? Thanks in advance! :hi:

(Not slammin' you, Az...but you know that's asking for miracles... :eyes:)

[Az]

17. I try to start each day with an impossible task

Otherwise it just doesn't feel like I am trying. ;)

People are basically good. Sometimes they just need to be reminded about that.

[_TJ_]

18. No dice friend

Haven't you been paying attention? Those of us who were calling
for tolerance and civility have lost. Apparantly freedom of
speech means people have the right to say whatever the hell they
like - no matter who gets hurt. If you don't like it, tough - you
are a whiner and nobody cares.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

19. I don't believe that's true.

In the end, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And there have been a lot of squeaky wheels around here lately.

There has to be a balance struck, and I think the mods and admins are working hard toward this goal. But some people won't be satisfied until everything that they deem offensive is censored. And that's a shame.

[_TJ_]

20. Truth be told...

I've called on people time and time again to have a care for
other peoples feelings. Many people just don't want to do it.

There's nothing anyone can do about that. There is such a thing
as freedom of speech, and people do have a right to criticise
religion and to be offensive if they wish. I wouldn't have it
any other way.

Personally I would prefer it if the mods let people say whatever
the hell they like - short of deliberate attacks on DUers. I
think trying to police a situation like this is impossible and
creates as much acrimony as it solves.

I think it should be up to the individual to decide whether they
want to be a nice person or an asshole - then at least you know
who to REALLY respect and who to ignore. I just don't think you
can FORCE people to be nice - they have to decide that themselves.

Of course, you don't HAVE to criticise peoples beliefs if you
don't want to. I'm going to make every effort I can not to step
on other people's toes. It's not always easy - I have a very
irreverant sense of humour - but I will try.

Edit: I should add, this doesn't just apply to religion. You
can also be a dick about women, men, gays, the disabled, and minorities. I've already
posted some offensively stupid shit that people objected to - but I realised
my words were hurtful and retracted them. I don't think I
should be FORCED to retract them but I think it is a civil thing to do so.

So if I fuck up and genuinely hurt someone, I swear I will
REALLY try to be a big enough person about it and apologise.

I hope I can live up to these ideals. I'm gonna try anyhow :evilgrin:

TJ

[Kathy in Cambridge]

22. Great post!

I absolutely agree with you.

[Bunny]

23. Too true, K in C.

Too true.

[jayfish]

32. How Are You Being Hurt?

Are you so dependent on the acceptance and approval of others that you can't withstand a few jokes from people who don't think the same way you do?

Jay

[_TJ_]

34. Never said I was pal

I was talking about other people.

[jayfish]

36. Ok, I Guess You Don't REALLY Want To...

discuss this. Fine by me. I didn't really want to do a bunch of typing anyway. :P

Jay

[_TJ_]

37. It doesn't bother me what people say

But it does bother some people alot. I've learnt that some of
these people are actually really good people so I've no desire
to fuck their shit up.

I don't want to be forced to hold my tongue - but I do choose
to. I also *ask* other people to do the same, because it makes
life easier for everyone online.

I would also ask religious folk not to be over-sensitive. If
someone posts something you personally find painful to read, I
think it is better to reason with that person than to get the
mods involved.

I think people should be free to be offensive if they want to. But
a wise person should probably choose not to be.

[jayfish]

39. Too F'ing Late!

Just kidding.

I agree 100% with you. Your post above just seemed to imply a bit of exasperation with DU'ers of a more comical bent. Unless I'm in a knock-down drag-out with someone, I always try to take their feelings into consideration. I was not always that way though and I never expect anyone to do the same for me. I guess that's wisdom for ya.

Peace

Jay

[cmf]

24. I'm just planning to use that little x next to the threads liberally.

Calls for religious tolerance here are usually met with defiance. So I just ignore them rather than try to reason with them.

[_TJ_]

27. Yeah it's really weird

I don't know why people do it - it's very alien to my way of
thinking. I always try really hard not to upset people I have no
gripe with.

I do think it is wrong to try to FORCE people to be nice or civil
though. Would you agree with that point?

[cmf]

31. I do agree with that.

You can't force people to be civil, the best you can do is try to reason with them. When that doesn't work, just walk away.

[_TJ_]

33. You are a wise person!

I'm glad we think so alike :7

[chefgirl]

26. Thanks Az

Nice try, and I appreciate those here on DU who ARE trying to bring a little civility to the discussion.
Unfortunately, no one can prevent the ignorant from being ignorant.

-chef-

[_TJ_]

38. Well said

That's using your noodle!

[bertha katzenengel]

29. Hear, hear!!

:applause:

[jayfish]

30. Although I'm Not Going To Make Any Jokes Myself,...

because I just don't care, I think that this type of censorship is absurd. Why do I say this? Because it is a system of beliefs. It's something you choose to believe in. I don't own anyone respect or deference for their beliefs. Rethugs believe that we should eliminate our social safety net and that people should pull themselves up by their boot-straps. They believe that gays should not be allowed to marry their same-sex partners. Do I owe them some sort of cordiality for holding these beliefs? Absolutely not. Where were the pleas to hold the vitriol about Jerry Falwell? Lots of people love and respect :puke: him too. I agree that it's tasteless but, imho, tastelessness is protected speech.

Jay

[Redstone]

41. For Chrissake, Az wasn't talking about censorship!

He was just, and damned politely, requesting a bit of voluntary restraint. No need to get on a constitutional high horse about it.

Redstone

[jayfish]

43. Not Getting On A High Horse.

Just using terms that everyone gets the gist of. Sorry for the offense.

Jay

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aeolian]

40. Will people be this offended

by jokes about Osama's death?

I mean, he is a human being after all. Just wondering how deep this "every human life is precious" idea really runs.

[_TJ_]

44. Same as Jerry Falwell

Most people wont give a shit cos they think he is an asshole. A lot
of folks on here really dig the pope though and I have no desire
to upset them.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to stop other people from
letting rip if they really want to. That's their own affair.

I might ask them to take care out of a desire for courtesy,
but at the end of the day the choice should lie with them.

[Henny Penny]

42. why not....

confine any jokes to the humour thread? That way religious people, or people who've had family or friends die of Parkinson's etc can be spared unnecessary pain.

Meanwhile those who are not emotionally engaged and see the humour of the situation are not not censored unduly.

[_TJ_]

45. I like how you think

Hide thread is probably a good thing for the easily-offended too.

[Nashyra]

51. I don't think it is too much to ask for a bit of respect

Whatever your religious beliefs or what your belief is in whether it be a higher power of your choosing, agnostic whatever, there are millions of people who have found comfort in their Catholic Religion, just ordinary people who are not zealots, just like there are born again Christians who are not zealots and do alot of good work for those less fortunate. I don't think it is too much to ask or expect civilized people to show respect for them while there spiritual leader is in his last hours of life, or in this time of mourning.

I would not shed a tear if the * kicked over tommorrow, but would never consider posting somewhere that I was glad or happy, just like Falwell. I firmly believe that judgement is made by someone way bigger than me.

[_TJ_]

60. No argument here

I always try to respect peoples feelings and beliefs. But I don't
think I should be forced to - it should be my choice.

[Eloriel]

48. Why not make it no Pope posts at all? That'd suit me better. n/t

[_TJ_]

50. Doncha think

the death of the pope is interesting enough to inspire a few
words? :D

[Bonhomme Richard]

52. Legitimate disagreement is great but tasteless jokes..............

reflect badly on all of us.

[_TJ_]

54. I totally agree

They're funny though :D

[Malva Zebrina]

53. while it may be crass to make jokes

about the Pope's demise, it may be important to remember that here on DU, we do not suffer Republicans gracefully at all and they end up tombstoned.

I don't think it is required to pay homage to the Pope and I would hope that while those who despise the right wing policies of the Vatican may choose to restrain themself out of courtesy to Catholic DU'ers here.

I would expect, in return, that the threads do not also get clogged with tacky like sympathetic Pope prayers,memorials to the Pope and the like, and that would also be done out of consideration for those DU'ers who would find that offensive also.

Although I think you only have good intentions which you probably think of as helping, it does not seem an issue anyone should get involved in before the fact. In fact, it does seem somewhat prejudicial on your part--ie there are some here who are just unacceptably rude and crass, by your judgement, before anything at all has happened.

Should just leave it to mods to enforce the rules.

[_TJ_]

55. I wish people wouldn't get offended...

by cracks at the pope's expense, or gratuitous requests for prayers -
but they do. I don't wanna piss in anyone's teacup so I won't be
doing either.

Strangely, as an atheist of some 20 years the prayer thing doesn't
bother me. I guess some atheists are as sensitive as some
christians :shrug:

I guess that's what 'ignore' is for :D

[Malva Zebrina]

62. right you are

that little "x" is invaluable.

It is not a matter of sensitivity , but a matter of fairness or justice. Some do have strong opinions about the Vatican's political meddling. We should not be asked to stifle those opinions out of some unwritten law that the Vatican or the Pope deserves "respect" simply because there are a lot of Catholics on the boards.

I hope I have explained my position clearly.

I trust that the mods would take care of anything that goes over the line.

[Javaman]

58. The Pope Visits New York

He is picked up at the airport by a limousine.

He looks at the beautiful car and says to the driver, "You know, I hardly ever get to drive. Would you please let me?"

The driver is understandably hesistant and says, "I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm supposed to do that."

But the Pope persists, "Please?" The driver finally lets up. "Oh, all right, I can't really say no to the Pope."

So the Pope takes the wheel, and boy, is he a speed demon! He hits the gas and goes around 100 mph in a 45 zone. A policeman notices and pulls him over.

The cop walks up and asks the Pope to roll down the window.

Startled and surprised, the young officer asks the Pope to wait a minute.

He goes back to his patrol car and radios the chief.

Cop: Chief, I have a problem.

Chief: What sort of problem?

Cop: Well, you see, I pulled over this guy for driving way over the speed limit but it's someone really important.

Chief: Important like the mayor?

Cop: No, no, much more important than that.

Chief: Important like the governor?

Cop: Wayyyyyy more important than that.

Chief: Like the president?

Cop: More.

Chief: Who's more important than the president?

Cop: I don't know, but he's got the Pope DRIVING for him!

[Pathwalker]

61. Very thoughtful effort, Az.

Too bad it won't work.

[Nailzberg]

63. it's no joke, the Pope and the Dalai Lama really did walk into a bar.