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There Really is NO Hope - And Here's a Reason Why

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bobd Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:00 PM
Original message
There Really is NO Hope - And Here's a Reason Why
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 10:02 PM by bobd
Pickup the current issue of Harper's Magazine and read Kevin Baker's article: We're in the Army Now.

No - it's not on-line which is a bummer, but it's well worth the $3.95 at the bookstore. I'll try to summarize it as best I can but PLEASE read it yourself. My summary will not do it the justice it deserves.

I'll summarize it by quoting the tag lines atop each page ....

Huah is what Bush's presidency has been from the beginning - an approach to governance that refuses any hint of compromise.

Americans now see the military as the last refuge of many democratic values in a society that seems ever more shallow and materialistic.

The republicans remain the party of uncompromising solutions, and their agenda has mostly driven the national political debate.

Bush has used the ISSUE of homeland security - as opposed to ACTUAL homeland security - to personify the national will.

Political face-saving has meant that there will be no wholesale re-assessment of our intelligence capabilities even after the disaster of 9/11.

It is unclear whether, even if they knew more about it, the american people care much about the abuse of power perpetrated in their name.

The unfocused liberal left has been unable to muster a convincing world-view to counter that put forward by the Party of Huah.

Karl Rove compares the Bush ascendency to the election of William McKinley in 1896. He may be more right than he knows.

The military is - ironically, considering our "victory" in the cold war - the closest thing in America to the collectivist ideal.

We now substitute military solutions for almost everything: International alliances, diplomacy, and effective intelligence.


The last paragraph is, perhaps, the most chilling of the article:

When troubles arise in this new America, when we are no longer able to escape the tyranny of fixed numbers <i.e., not enough troops to cover all of the military adventures>, it is unlikely that we will return to a bufuddled liberal opposition. Instead we will probably look for the real thing.

When the Party of Huah can no longer keep up its various pretenses, we will seek out an even stronger, more confident hand. The one public institution we respect above all others - because most of us have never experienced it. The one that more than three-quarters of us have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in, and the one that has, after all, the longest experience running a paternalistic, authoritarian society. The one that is demographically the most like us, that does its job with startling efficiency and without complaint; the one that captures our imagination to the point that men hold twenty-one year round the clock vigils to honor it <i.e., the little POW booths surrounding the Vietnam Memorial in DC>. In the end we'll beg for the <military> coup
.

This is NOT an anti-liberal article nor is Harpers a right-wing rag. Those who've read it know this.

The picture painted is grim and compelling. We are facing the actual end of our democracy and the slide into authoritarianism/fascism is progressing at a rate far faster than we perceive. It may actually be too late. This is doom and gloom to which attention needs to be paid and paid quickly.

I know I've spoke of suicide before but that was out of mere depression. My depression is still there, certainly, but after reading this article, that final exit would be a comforting, blessed relief. That final black nothingness would be far preferrable to actual US-style, in your face dictatorship.
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brokensymmetry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Disturbing -
and yet, it does have the ring of truth. I'll need to drop by the news stand and get a copy...

Kick!
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. More than one thing is always true.
Bushco isn't really choosing a military solution. It's choosing a fascist solution.

What happens to fascist solutions? Think.

Lots of people get killed, and then most people are ashamed to admit they ever thought it was a good idea for a couple of decades.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. I Think You Could be Right
And this is why I am very worried because I still don't see the collective angst from the left that will be required to topple

Cement Head and the Stones!
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Reality shows a shift from delusion to Sanity.
Perhaps this shift will continue effecting a change, perhaps not. But let us have patience, that glimmer is slowly growing.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Don't give up
It's easy to get pessimistic - but it is impossible to effect change without hope.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wouldn't give up so soon
The election has barely started and you really need to give these folks a chance. Some of them will be swinging away at a Bush presidency that many are beginning to question. The election is a year away and Bush does not have solid, deep support any more.

This author senses a possibility that something like this will happen but I don't think we can assume it will.

Your depression though is something you really need to deal with on a healing basis. It may or not be related to political events. A chemical imbalance can be treated and can be caused by lots of things - not the least of which is the dumping of tons of neurotoxins into out atmosphere in the name of industry, insect and weed control, air freshening, cleaning etc. Please, please see a doctor.

History is full of dark days - immigrants not being paid for mine work - those who stepped up got the unions going. African Americans lynched - Martin Luther King - pulled people together to get civil rights on the agenda. Women did not have the right to vote and their bodies were property of their husbands - womens rights came into being.

We all just have a job to do - but not give up though. There really is hope.
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bobd Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. My Depression is quite persistent
and unrelenting. I've been depressed more or less since 1991, sometimes severely. I'm currently on Effexor which works sort of OK. It's certainly better than the Prozac which worked at first then stopped altogether. I've tried counseling a number of times too - nada.

I've resigned myself to being depressed more often than not. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot I can do about it. The one thing I haven't tried yet is Electro Convulsive Therapy. Perhps it would be really cool and life-affirming to have a rag-covered wooden stick shoved in your mouth and electric current applied to one's brain. One certainly would gain LOTS of credibility jerking around on a gurney. It's be a giggle for the orderly who'd have to hold me down.



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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Alternative therapies?
I am really sorry to hear that. Have you tried alternative therapies at all? What I mean by that is seeing a nutrional MD of the alternative persuasion. They can make sure you are balanced nutritionally. You could be tested for food allergies. There could be food allergies that if you could identify would be a help. Milk, wheat and corn can wreak havoc on the mentals if one is allergic.

Alternatives could possibly give you improvements.
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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. I'm going to try salvia leaves
You can smoke them, but chewing green leaves is even more effective. Check it out at Erowid.com. No joke, this stuff may work, and it's legal.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Well, here's a case study
The URL is http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?A=ShowDo...

Apparently the potent doses are artificiallt concentrated for smoking, but therapeutic doses are smaller and chewed raw.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Just a couple other things
that have an effect (negative) on mood:
aspartame, as in diet soda; msg; food colorings; certain preservatives; sulfites

some environmental contributors: pesticides; air fresheners; perfumes; cleansers; gas heat; new construction materials, such as particle board; mold
You could clear you life of these things and see if it helps

In 1990 the Office of Technology Assessment prepared a report for Congress called Neurotoxicity: Identifying and Controlling Poisons of the Nervous System. Congress declared the the 90's, the Decade of the Brain because the brain is so susceptible to the increasing amount of neurotoxic chemicals in the environment in a Joint Resolution.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Deleted message
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. but is there evidence this will work?
I see counter-evidence.

Look at all the mockery of Bush on the carrier. No one was impressed by that, it totally backfired.

None of the dems are striking a martial theme, look at the steak fry yesterday, they were all in jeans, no uniforms or guns or even any flags as I recall.

OK, there's Wesley Clark, it seems at least some supporters are all starry-eyed at the fact that he was a general, but a lot of people are decidedly unimpressed and even turned off by that, and are demanding he provide a normal justification for himself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. because I saw hope in the SteakFfry?
who am I a mole for then, Tom Harkin?
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. oh my goodness
a Harkin Mole... out, I say, out with you! ;-)

(btw, I think Harkin is great!)
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Turned off by the fact that CLark served his country.
Unlike the rich kid Dean who got a medical exemption and then hit the ski slopes.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. I would have agreed a month ago, but Bush's honeymoon is OVER!
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 10:26 PM by rocknation
...Bush's presidency has been...an approach to governance that refuses any hint of compromise.
I won't argue with that.

Americans now see the military as the last refuge of many democratic values in a society that seems ever more shallow and materialistic...Bush has used the ISSUE of homeland security - as opposed to ACTUAL homeland security - to personify the national will...It is unclear whether, even if they knew more about it, the american people care much about the abuse of power perpetrated in their name.
I will argue with that. The American people care more than you think--but you may not think it does because you don't see it reflected in the mainstream media. Bush cares about nothing other than HIS "national will," but fortunately, more and more of "the American people" are beginning to realize they've been flat-out scammed.


rocknation


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dofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. What is Huah?
n/t
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bobd Donating Member (473 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Huah is the soldier's
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 10:54 PM by bobd
equivalent of shouting "AMEN". Hu-AH! Apparently they use it A LOT. They shouted it at Ft. Hood when Bush gave his pre-invasion speech there.
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dofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thank you.
n/t
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. bobd...
That is very thought-provoking...and discomforting, to say the least.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. There is ALWAYS hope
A phrase once came to me in a moment of discouragement: "You are the ocean, not the shore."

The shore is that which gets stuck in place and wants nothing more than to remain stuck where it is.

The ocean is that which constantly moves and visits all shores.

Perhaps the United States *is* getting stuck. Big effing deal. In the end, it's just one more piece of shoreline.

Grab a wave and start sailing.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
18. One Point That The Article Misses
Corporatism and Militarism are two very different things. I could clearly see the American imploring the military to overthrow the government. Hell, Freepers would love it. However, a military coup would conflict with global corporatism. I don't see major global corporations willingly giving up power to the military.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I'm starting to think a military coup is the only way to get rid of
these guys.

Right out of the frying pan into the fire

Unless the generals who stage it are actual patriots who then turn the control of the government back to the American people where it belongs.

Right now it's a bunch of criminal civilians abusing their power and using the military like it's their personal nightstick.

The military, if they were smart, might figure this out and take exception to being so abused.
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iangb Donating Member (444 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. ..But how much of....
corporate America depends on the military for its survival?

(The short answer is ........lots.)

With an annual budget of $400 bil and up to 600,000 private contractors/sub-contractors on its books, the fact is that what is good for the Pentagon, is good for business.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm replying to this
while it's at the top of the page because I refuse to kick a thread thay says there is no hope.

There is always hope.
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disgruntella Donating Member (983 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. there is always hope
You're right. I suffer from major depression and haven't found any type of permanent solution to it - but when I feel hopeless it's not because there is no hope; it's because I'm having trouble finding it. Lifelong struggle - yep. But I'm still here.

Memo to Bush: HUAH THIS!
Memo to Harpers: Yet another reason why I will never buy that magazine again. I have never understood that rag. I get more inspiration from Redbook.
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jafap Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. there is no gravity
the earth just sucks. I don't know if I suffer from depression or if I just am having a shitty life. I do not want to be like that guy on TV. His wife and four children just drowned and he keeps smiling at the TV. I get at least as angry as I get depressed, but it helps me sometimes to give up. My life is not too bad even though I will never have a decent job, friends, or a family. As awful as three years of Bushreich have been, I do not see an impact on my own life. I feel empathy for the casualties of this war, but world peace is not in my power to create. I do what I can, but do not stress about the big picture.
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