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Why didn't Schnidlers use her Bulimia???

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Danmel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 08:53 PM
Original message
Why didn't Schnidlers use her Bulimia???
To claim that their daughter was not competent to make end of life decisions? After all in a Living Will you affirm that you are of Sound Mind. Why didn't they say she was mentally ill and in particular not competent to make decisions about food and hydration?

Their denial has really screwed their case up.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. She never had a living will.
the judge based his decision on her beloved husbands testimony...i.e.hearsay.
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Danmel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That makes it even stronger
They could have contested her mental competency- the very fact that she ended up in the state she was in due to the eating disorder would be conclusive evidence that she was not competent- res ipsa loquitur- it speaks for itself. They just wanted to blame Michael for her condition.
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Negative ghostrider
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 09:09 PM by Columbia
The decision was based on testimony's from multiple people. Her husband's testimony was regarded very little. How about you reading the actual court decision?

Also, oral declarations are valid if no written declaration exists.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Her husband, and two other people besides. n/t
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. And those 2 unbiased people were...his brother and his brothers wife ??
is that correct ?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Yes, they were found consistent and credible.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. That would be admitting that they failed as parents to properly...
...raise their daughter since an eating disorder is the result of neglect or abuse.

<snip>

Child abuse is both shocking and commonplace. Child abusers inflict physical, sexual, and emotional trauma on defenseless children every day. The scars can be deep and long-lasting. Unfortunately, the more subtle forms of child abuse such as neglect and emotional abuse can be just as traumatizing as violent physical abuse. Focused support can help both the victims of child abuse and the child abusers themselves.

What is the definition of child abuse?
Child abuse consists of any act or failure to act that endangers a child's physical or emotional health and development. A person caring for a child is abusive if he or she fails to nurture the child, physically injures the child, or relates sexually to the child.

What are the types of child abuse?
The four major types of child abuse are:

Physical abuse
Sexual abuse
Emotional abuse
Neglect

Another type of abuse is child exploitation (distinct from sexual exploitation). This is the use of a child in work or other activities for the benefit of others. Child labor is an example of child exploitation for commercial reasons. Using a child in this way detracts from their own physical, mental, and social development.

<snip>
Some signs of emotional abuse

Apathy
Depression
Hostility
Lack of concentration
Eating disorders **

Some signs of sexual abuse

Inappropriate interest in or knowledge of sexual acts
Seductiveness
Avoidance of things related to sexuality, or rejection of own genitals or bodies
Nightmares and bedwetting
Drastic changes in appetite
Overcompliance or excessive aggression
Fear of a particular person or family member
Withdrawal, secretiveness, or depression
Suicidal behavior
Eating disorders **
Self-injury



<more>
<link> http://www.helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I've been thinking this too
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Yep
Not many people ever talked about her having bulemia. Really telling.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Oh puleeze......
just as likely MS badgered her to bulemia.

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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. She had a weight problem for years I heard
long before she met Michael.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Half the friggin country has a weight problem.


(Not directed to you beaverhausen...)

Slam the parents....dont worry about any proof.



Should make everyone feel better when she dies.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Most young women with the disease have overbearing parents
I'm not saying they were...I'm just saying it is a possibility. I thought this the minute I heard she had suffered from bulimia.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Hey,is it all possible that maybe being married to MS lead to bulemia ?
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. And your basis for that conclusion????
...Her parents and siblings knew of Terri's eating disorder before she ever had Michael in her life.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Did they ?
link in that ?


Given the pressures on women to be thin , assuming your allegation is true, would not be too surprising.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. this DU post has a link....
...http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1692824

Plus this article:

<snip>
Terri Schiavo's Medical Facts & History

Bulimia, Coma, Brain Death in Terri Schiavo

In the debate over what should happen to Terri Schiavo, many lose sight of the facts and background of Terri’s medical history. Terri Schiavo had bulimia which produced a potassium imbalance which in turn caused a cardiac arrest. This shut off blood flow to her brain, much of which then died. Today her cranium is largely filled with spinal fluid, not brain matter.

Terri Schiavo: Victim of Bulimia or Physical Abuse?

On February 25, 1990, Terri suffered a cardiac arrest due to a potassium imbalance. Just 27 at the time, she has never regained consciousness. Terri Schiavo’s potassium imbalance was brought on by a life-long struggle with her weight. She was chubby and shy as a child. It wasn’t until she lost 65 pounds that men began to pay closer attention to her, including her future husband Michael Schiavo.

Keeping the weight off proved difficult, however, and Terri resorted to drastic measures. She developed bulimia and made herself throw up after meals. She tried to survive on liquids.
It is ironic that a woman whose brain has died because of her efforts to avoid eating would become the center of a controversy over whether a feeding tube should be maintained in order to keep her body alive. It’s also sad because her bulimia is rarely mentioned in the news. Terri Schiavo’s condition could serve as a lesson to those whose obsession with food and body image lead them into eating disorders.

<more>
<link> http://atheism.about.com/od/terrischiavonews/a/facts.htm

<other links>

http://binarycircumstance.typepad.com/bc_blog/2005/03/why_arent_they_.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-02-25-schiavo-eating-disorder_x.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. So while she was married to MS....
She had a major worsening of her bulemia that lead to a heart attack.

Got it.




Wonder what role he had in this.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Believe what you like, now where is the support for your....
...conclusions, or do you just wish to continue taking shots from behind your safe place of ambiguity and unsupported inferences

:hide:
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. Eating disorders CAN be a symptom of abuse, but
it is incorrect to say across the board that eating disorders are the result of abuse or neglect.

I had an eating disorder, and I was not abused or neglected.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. When did your eating disorder begin and how was it....
...manifested? You say had. What did you do to eliminate it?
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I say "had" because I have been eating
normally for well over twenty years. Still, I don't believe the tendency to eating disorders is ever 100% eradicated, so I do watch myself carefully for signs of obsessive behavior regarding nutrition.

I was thirteen when I developed anorexia, although I did not know the word and did not realize I had an "eating disorder."

This was in junior high, my eighth grade year, but I think the seeds were set in seventh grade when I entered junior high school. It was a completely different world for me than elementary school had been. Kids who had been my friends previously turned on me. I was bullied, taunted, and one girl in particular was especially vicious. I had no idea how to deal with the treatment I received. I wish I had told someone about it - my mom, a teacher, somebody. Maybe I was ashamed, I don't know. But I kept it in.

I didn't know I was getting obsessive, and I don't remember the exact way it started. I remember that, in the midst of all the bullying I endured, the one positive thing that was ever remarked on was that I was thin. I suppose it started as a desire to keep that one thing my peers evidently found to be good. My food intake dwindled down to virutally nothing. I kept a detailed diary every day - how much I weighed, how much exercise I did, and any morsel that passed my lips. Toward the end of this, I was existing on 1/2 cup of Rice Krispies with 1/4 cup of skim milk every day. That was all. I also remember one time being offered an M&M and feeling self-loathing after I "allowed" myself to eat it.

At supper, I was getting away with not eating by the classic pushing the food around, occasionally putting the fork in my mouth, and dumping a lot of the food.

I knew my mother was worried, but I suppose she didn't know what it was either. I know she suspected I wasn't eating, and frequently offered to fix me a snack. When my dad took us to the amusement park that summer, he wanted to buy treats for everyone (us five kids and a couple of our friends), and he was very puzzled that I didn't want an ice cream cone. I always loved ice cream.

My mom eventually sat me down and told me she was worried and wanted to take me to the doctor. She asked the doctor how she could get me to put on 40 pounds. He said, "Oh, she's just a kid. She'll gain weight when she's ready," and that was all. I weighed just 69 pounds.

Mom never fought with me to eat. That day after the doctor, we went home and she went into the kitchen and made me a cheese omelet and toast. She sat next to me while I tried to eat it, but I got full after only two bites. My mom started to cry - and for my mother to cry, it's very very serious. I had only seen her cry once before, and then was when my grandfather died.

She said she knew something was horribly wrong (and again, we had never heard of eating disorders and didn't know that what I was doing had a name), but she didn't know how to help me. She asked if I was unhappy about something. And then I told her about what was happening at school, especially about the one girl who was the ringleader.

You know, I'm sitting here typing this, and it's like I'm back in that moment, feeling tears well up that I don't want to have fall. It's a strange thing, this reminiscing.

Anyway, my parents wanted to pull me out of school and place me somewhere else, but honestly, that scared me more than staying put. At least at my school, I had one or two friends. At a new school, I wouldn't have any...and I was afraid people there would hate me too.

Far from an unhappy home life, my home was the only place I really WAS happy for a long time.

Learning to allow myself to eat again was a slow process, and we didn't have any professional help. But I did have people telling me that I mattered, and that my feelings mattered, and it was such an enormous burden off my shoulders to have shared with my folks what was really going on.

By the time I reached high school in 10th grade, I was eating normally and was up to about 100 pounds. I had a best friend, and I was able to shed most of the baggage from junior high. I say "most" because I never really shed all of it.

After my son was born and then finished nursing, I had some extra weight left from the pregnancy and nursing. I had to relearn nutrition and exercise all over again, and now I could be considered something of an exercise fanatic. I lost 25 pounds last year, and I'm telling you, the temptation to keep going was almost frightening. I suppose if I'd had any emotional issues going on in my life at the time, I may have succumbed to that temptation. Fortunately, I'm emotionally healthy and was able to recognize the danger signs when they hit. I have managed to maintain my weight loss healthfully without crossing the line into obsession. But I always have to be aware. And it's not always easy.

Thanks for listening, and I hope I don't decide later I shared too much of what is really quite personal.
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DeposeTheBoyKing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Wow, Left Is Write, you've been through quite an ordeal
I'm glad you're doing well now. Thanks for sharing, and take care!
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Thanks so much for telling us your story.
It's really good to hear that your illness wasn't from your family of origin. I also remember the horrible harassment of junior high and how useless the teachers and everyone was. I'm so glad you got it figured out, and that your family was there to love you through it.

You are such a lovely young woman (I remember your pic from the Lounge thread the other night) with alot going on. I'm glad you've been able to manage weight issues in a healthy manner now. I know how tough that is after childbirth. I had my babies late (38 and 41), and I nursed them long term, so I also feel perimenopausal "pressure" to keep that youthful look.

Your story is an important one.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Dysfunctional family factors could influence onset of bulimia
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 09:12 PM by BrklynLiberal
She weighed 200 pounds and lost the weight BEFORE she met Michael Schiavo.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1692824
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. So Can A Seratonin Imbalance...
So can society's insistence that a thin woman is a beautiful one...
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
10. 1. They may have been part of the reason she was bulimic
2. They seem to prefer believing that Michael did something to her like strangle her.

I'm not sure they even admit that she was bulimic.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. use her bulimia how?
Terri Schiavo didn't have a living will. No doubt if she was the only person in Florida to have a living will at her young age, the family would have gone to court and interfered with its execution in any case. Our family's experience with Florida does not impress me that wills are worth the paper they are written on if anyone cares to dispute them. I'd say save the money you might otherwise waste on the living will, as they don't come cheap. If you have whackjobs in your family, they're going to screw you up anyway unless you physically remove yourself from them.


The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72




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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Evidence seems to indicate that the eating disorder started before she met
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 09:31 PM by BrklynLiberal
her husband
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiavo


Schiavo was born as Theresa Marie Schindler. She grew up in the Huntingdon Valley area of Lower Moreland Township, Pennsylvania, a suburb of Philadelphia, as the oldest of three children; her younger siblings are Robert Jr. (Bobby) and Suzanne. Terri graduated from a private Catholic high school, Archbishop Wood High School, in nearby Warminster Township in 1981. Her childhood and high school years were spent as a chubby and shy girl, with a height of 5'3" and a weight of 200 pounds. According to her parents, she was very overweight until she managed to lose 65 pounds with the help of a physician. Unknown to everyone at the time, Terri Schiavo developed an eating disorder which would later force her to vomit after eating a liquid-only diet. <4>

After dropping from 250 pounds to around 150 pounds, she met Michael Schiavo in 1982. They met in a sociology class at Bucks County Community College in Newtown, where they were both students; the two married on November 10, 1984. The couple moved to St. Petersburg, Florida in April 1986. Bob and Mary Schindler, Terri Schiavo's parents, also moved to St. Petersburg three months later. In Florida, Schiavo worked for the Prudential insurance company and her husband was a restaurant manager. Terri Schiavo's friends began to have suspicions about her eating habits. After meals out, she would immediately excuse herself to go to the bathroom. Michael Schiavo was aware of her strange eating patterns but did not realize their potential danger.

In 1989, the Schiavos began visiting an obstetrician and receiving fertility services and counseling in the hopes of having a child. At this time, Terri Schiavo's weight had dropped to 110 pounds and she had stopped menstruating. However, the physician who examined Terri Schiavo did not take a complete medical history, which would have indicated an eating disorder. <5>
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I accept your link....good work.
Still proves N O T H I N G that the parents were responsible.

"After meals out, she would immediately excuse herself to go to the bathroom. Michael Schiavo was aware of her strange eating patterns but did not realize their potential danger."

maybe it could also read...

After meals out, she would immediately excuse herself to go to the bathroom. Michael Schiavo was aware of her strange eating patterns but wanted a thin wife and didnt give a shit how she did it.

who the hell knows?

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moobu2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. No one knew about Terri's bulimia.
When tragic event like this happens, people will search their memories for overlooked evidence -after the fact, to make sense from all of it.
That's what Michael did. After Terri suffered heart failure from her bulimia, he went back through his memories and recalled odd things she did, only it was to late. That's all that was.

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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Well, the reference doesn't read that way does it....
...so again your use of flame baiting a "Michael Schiavo abusive spouse scenario" is still totally unsubstantiated. It seems you run your keyboard without anything to back up your position. Your work ethic, DRdon326 runs very close to the "hard work" statements George W. Bush made about himself throughout his debates with John Kerry.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
19. If they were decent people,
they would use their daughter's tragedy to educate young girls and perhaps prevent other cases of bulimia.

But they aren't decent people, so that idea is just an idea.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. Just read about this other potential conflict of interest...
Edited on Tue Mar-29-05 09:48 PM by BrklynLiberal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiavo


There is a potential conflict of interest in the Schindlers' case. Both sides agree that in early 1993, the Schindlers visited Mr. and Mrs. Schiavo in her hospice and immediately requested a share of Terri Schiavo's legal settlement. According to Mr. Schiavo, "the first words out of my father-in-law's mouth was how much money he was going to get." Mary Schindler does not dispute this and has has testified that Mr. Schiavo had earlier promised part of Terri's settlement to her parents; "He used to say 'Dont worry, Mom. If I ever get any money from the lawsuit, I'll help you and Dad.'" Until the 1993 meeting, all parties had been in a cordial relationship in which Mr. Schiavo referred to his in-laws as "Mum and Dad." The demand for cash and its rejection apparently led to a heated confrontation and severed the close relationship between Mr. Schiavo and the Schindlers. The financial question remains important in any analysis of the case both now and in the future


Guess that is why the Schindlers are now selling videos and pictures of her and names of contributors to her cause to mailing lists.
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