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Out of Left Field (An article on Howard Dean from "LA Weekly"}

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:37 PM
Original message
Out of Left Field (An article on Howard Dean from "LA Weekly"}
Earlier today I posted a quote from an article in The National Review, which included this:

"Commenting on Wesley Clark's possible candidacy in an interview with L.A. Weekly, Dean explained:

"It's going to be very hard to start late," he says, "and think you're going to do well in Iowa and New Hampshire. It's going to be incredibly hard. I mean, we've already got 39,000 people working for us all around the country ... I really do believe--and I think about this--I want to get this nomination, and if I don't ... these kids are not transferrable. I can't just go out and say, 'Okay, so I didn't win the nomination, so go ahead and vote for the Democrats.' They're not going to suddenly just go away. That's not gonna happen."


One DUer who replied to my post stated that a search of the LA Weekly website didn't turn up the quote and that TNR needed a fact checker. This concerned me so I used Google (LA+Weekly+Howard Dean) and the first article to come up was this article by Jamie Wolf, which turned out to contain the exact quote cited by TNR in their article. It's a very long article so you will have to scroll down a long ways to find it but it is there.


Here's the URL for Jamie Wolf's article in LA Weekly:

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/41/features-wolf.php

Jonathan Chait's short article in The National Review is here:

http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=650

TNR is doing a primary series involving numerous short articles on each candidate, each mini-article looking at one issue or event in relation to that candidate.


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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. When I suggested he is saying that my supporters are a bunch of babies
who have got to have their way and if he didn't get the nomination, they are going to take the ball and go home. You should have seen the screaming this caused on another web site. I missed the Kids part when I first read it. So you see folks Howard, said it first, your a bunch of kids, well thats similar to babies, or near a baby. Kids means immature.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Howard seems to think he has "Deanie-babies"...
But when I use the term, I'm trying to be insulting in some way. What is Howard being?
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:28 PM
Original message
Literal readers are pitiful
What he says is true to an extent. He's talking about a couple of things. One is that many of his supporters are crossing party lines. They may not be ABB people to the point that they would vote for any Democrat.
He is speaking of a very real naivette. Many of these people haven't been involved in politics ever or for a very long time. Dean has inspired hope for them, and that is very powerful.
These people are already investing themselves heavily in this thing. Once that happens, it's hard for people to have any enthusiasm for a different candidate. I understand this from experience. I worked on a primary campaign a couple of years ago. It was my first campaign, and I had just started following politics closely. My candidate didn't win, and it took me awhile to warm up to the guy who actually won. I was a sore loser because I had not only invested a great deal of time, but there was a massive emotional investment in the thing, as well.
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. So you, like TNR, like taking things out of context?
Scrolling to find this quote without reading the entire article is just more soundbite news. What Dean is saying, is that he has a lot of first time voters, kids and older adults, who are not transferrable. Dean has always said he will support the Dem nominee. That does not mean all his supporters will turn into anybody but bush folks. Dean supporters are more of a movement than a centralized campaign.
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Then it is up to him, if he means what he says about Bush, to tell his
supporters that defeating him is the primary goal, because it is bigger than him or any one of the other candidates. He is stroking the emotions of his supporters, hopefully the smart ones will catch on to this, others, not talking about you, please don't be offended, seem to be fragile. He even says so.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. He HAS said it. Numerous times.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Newsflash for Howard. ALL candidates have voters who
are not transferable. Howard is a legend in his own mind. Somebody try to convince me he doesn't have an overblown ego.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Inasumuch as up to 50% (and sometimes more) of his
supporters at any given function have NEVER been involved in politics before, many of whom have never even voted before, in Dean's case there's a much stronger likelihood that his supporters ARE less transferrable.

Howard is a strong, confident leader, but he is by no means either arrogant or delusional about the nature and shape of his campaign. The support he's receiving continuously awes and amazes both he and Trippi.

Eloriel
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. more of a movement than a campaign?
Pardon me but that sounds a tad full of yourselves.

If you want to avoid the "he can't win because he's just like McGovern" you need to stop talking like we McGovernites did.

As the big dog says, fall in love with your candidate but when the primaries are over, fall in line. It's the ONLY way to make ABB a reality.

Instead of Dean making statements like that he should be saying "My supporters and I will be very disappointed if we don't win the nomination but I will be FIRMLY behind the nominee and I will do everything in my power to bring my base with me." Otherwise, he sounds like a liar when he criticizes Bush. (How bad could Bush be if they don't buy into ABB?)
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Rip Roaring sound of applause!!! As Gomer Pyle so eloquently put it
Thank eewwuu, thank eewwuu, thank eewwuu, Btw, Movements have goals too, what is his, Howard Dean or Die.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Taking back our party, our country, the White House.
NOT just getting elected. NOT just business as usual. Re-empowering the populace. Grassroots democracy for real.

Eloriel
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Sorry what it Sounds like to you. But it Is a Movement..
whether you can recoginize it or not. Dean and his campaign have Recognized that there is a whole section of People out there who have never even voted before and want to feel like they are part of the political process.

Dean has accessed that hunger and need of "Wanting Our Country Back"... :kick:


It is Definetly so Much More than a campaign.
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Read blogforamerica and tell me
Dean is not a movement - I am not talking Dean the man or the campaign - I mean read what the bloggers have to say.
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:09 PM
Original message
All hail the claw.....ohhhhhhhhhh
n/t
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. He has said it. I'm tired of this argument coming up repeatedly
TWICE today, ferchrissake.

He is definitely ABB. Get over it.

Eloriel
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Dean's words are not quoted out of context and the point of this

thread was only to inform people that I located the quote from LA Weekly cited by TNR (and how to locate it if they didn't have time to read a lengthy article.) I was told in the earlier thread that it didn't "sound" like Dean -- and it was suggested that I was posting "shit," "lies," "distortions," and "mischaracterizations," to quote only a few comments.

Sticks and bones might break DemBones, but false accusations just spur me to do more research.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. Dean is famous for getting retractions. Did he get one on this
or did he say it and mean it?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Sad when stating the obvious is considered so awful
He is stating the obvious. No candidate can say his supporters will do x. It depends on many things over which he has no control. He can't control what the other candidates do or what his supporters reactions may or may not be. I think most of his supporters will transfer. Rest assured I will. But some won't. Just like some Kerry supporters won't. Some Edwards supporters won't. Some Graham supporters won't. Some Kucinich supporters won't. and on and on.
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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I don't hear any of them bragging about how their supporters are going
to bolt if they don't get the nomination. The effort to oust Bush is a team effort, we are in the process of finding out who will be the best person to lead that effort. It is really sad because, I admire the energy of the Dean supporters, I did like Dean. Comments like the one thread starter, may be true, but that is a "true" that Howard can change to false he wants to. It did not sound to me like he was going to try, if he loses the nomination.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Nope, not bloody likely.
As I already posted but will gladly repost: a very large percentage of his supporters have NEVER been involved in politics before, and not just because they're just now old enough to vote. They have felt for the first time in their lives that THIS candidate and THIS message is worth getting involved with, worth believing in, worth trusting with their hope AND their vote.

THOSE ARE NOT TRANSFERRABLE TO JUST ANY OTHER CANDIDATE. My advice to other campaigns, should Dean not get the nomination, is to take a very long look at what it is about Dean that is exciting the crowds. As I said before on a thread I started: It's not about policies anymore.

Even so, Dean HAS and no doubt WILL strongly encourage his supporters to vote for the Dem nominee, whoever it is. He has also pledged to work for the nominee if it's not him.

WHAT THE HELL MORE DO YOU WANT? LIES??? You've got a candidate who has the ability -- not all that common among Presidential candidates -- to actually UNDERSTAND what the hell his campaign is all about, what the PEOPLE who support him are all about, and honest enough to articulate his understanding. You want him to lie about it so YOU can't twist his words? Not bloody likely. And THAT is why most of us support the guy in the first place.

YOUR candidate, whoever it is, doesn't have the guts to be that honest, nor the insight to figure out such a thing to start with.

Eloriel
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. That might be because none of them are ever asked
I won't say they haven't been as I can't prove a negative but I can say I have yet to see any of them asked about this like I have seen Dean asked about his (on Larry King Live to cite one example).
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. Dean: I will not run as independent. I will support the nominee.

KING: New York City, as we go to some calls for Governor Howard Dean, hello.

CALLER: Hi. Governor Dean, I have been so impressed by you ever since I saw you on Meet the Press. And I'm going to my first Dean meeting this week. And my question for you is that many Democrats believe that if not for Ralph Nader staying in the election that we wouldn't have George Bush as a president.

So my question to you is, if you do not get the Democratic nomination, will you still run on the independent ticket?

DEAN: No, I will not.

CALLER: If so, how will that impact the upcoming race?

DEAN: I will not run as independent. I will support the nominee. It is essential that George Bush not be re-elected for the future of this country. It is essential for our economy. It's essential, so we can regain the respect we had around the world. And I will under no circumstances run as a third party and independent. I will back the nominee. I hope I am the nominee because I can bring about half those votes that voted for Ralph Nader back into the party. That's how we are going to win. And I think at this point there is no other evidence that any of the other candidates can do that and I think that's why I'm the most likely to beat George Bush.

http://www.cnn.tv/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/04/lkl.00.html
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dofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. And while a lot of us Dean supporters
will be very disappointed if he doesn't get the nomination, the vast majority of us will be out there supporting whoever the nominee is.

For one thing, it will be pretty obvious by early March at the latest who the nominee will be, which will give us all lots of time to get used to that guy. I'm inclined to say that the ONLY one we wouldn't all unite behind is Lieberman, and he has no chance whatsoever of being nominated.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Dean's campaign is a movement and he will be a power broker within the
Democratic party whether he wins the nomination or not. His followers are very loyal and they most likely will follow Dean's lead, even if he loses the nomination. What Dean is great at, that the other top tier candidates are not, is that he is honest with his followers. Like a doctor informing a patient of a terminal illness, Dean will lay out the truth and what the treatment program will be -- getting rid of Bush by supporting the Dem nominee, whoever that is.

But right now, Dean is the leader of the Dem pack and it will be very hard for Clark this late in the race to generate a grassroots base as fiercely loyal as Dean's.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Well said
Tho I don't know that Clark's supporters won't be "fiercely loyal" -- they've already been a royal PITA here -- aggressive, rude, obnoxious. Just as one would expect from most supporters of a military candidate, I suppose.

Eloriel
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. This again
Heard you the first time.

So?

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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. TNR Hatchet Job
The remarks can indeed be perceived to be damaging, if one wants to, be my guest. And it looks to me like TNR really really really wanted to. How else can you explain them picking through an overall positive, multi-page article and lifting the one thing which can be used for a "gotcha."
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