Why is it if a woman so much as slips on a banana peel - it's sexist?

[HEyHEY]

I mean, I'm all for equality and realize that in some cases women still aren't getting a fair shake. However, it seems people don't understand what the word sexism actually means. They can't divide the meaning of the word with shitty things that just happen to occur to women. I equate it to anger and confusion on certain issues.

And now... into my asbestos suit I go.

[Demit]

1. What are you talking about, she asked politely

[Connie_Corleone]

2. Who slipped on a banana peel??

[shraby]

12. Because it's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

If they don't yell about everything do you really believe they will keep what they've gained?
It's like a story about my mother. She had been telling my dad for a long time they needed new linoleum in the kitchen/dining area. It was pretty badly worn. He'd mumble something like "I know" and then nothing would happen.
One day she reached down and grabbed a piece that was loose, stood up bringing the piece with her along with a good swatch of linoleum. Then holding the end of the huge torn piece she said "I said we need new linoleum".
Dad put his hat on and they went to town.

[elehhhhna]

47. Go MOM!

[redqueen]

3. Because it is!

The banana is shaped like a what?

[Pithlet]

4. ??? n/t

[HEyHEY]

5. Long story

[Pithlet]

25. C'mon, spill it.

Did I miss a flamewar somewhere? I don't want to miss one that involves banana peels. :popcorn:

[XNASA]

6. You've got it all wrong.

It's only sexist if she slips on a banana peel and falls on the banana.

[WillowTree]

8. LMAO!!!!

[Connie_Corleone]

11. I thought it was if she slips on the banana, falls on the ground,

and the banana flips up into the air and falls on top of her.

[XNASA]

15. Thanks ladies.

And I mean that sincerely.

[NYCGirl]

7. A woman slipping on a banana peel isn't sexist. It's comedy. NT

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

10. What's wrong with being sexy?

[NYCGirl]

16. Not a thing. But the OP said "sexist," not "sexy." NT

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

22. Ever see Spinal Tap?

[RPM]

37. wow that was good

those last 4 posts were as if straight from the movie :-)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

52. Heheh

:)

[NYCGirl]

67. Yeah, but not for a very long time. NT

[UdoKier]

32. But is it sexist when camera zooms in on her expose panties as she slips?

Maybe. It's certainly titillating, but these days what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and there are plenty of women ogling scantily clad men on shows like "Desparate Housewives"


It's all very subjective, IMO. I know it when I see it. Sometimes it's offensive and sometimes it isn't. Women and men are both flawed, and the foibles of both sexes deserve being poked fun at.


Shows like "The Man Show" are pretty sexist and dumb, but they make no pretense of being anything else, so they get away with it...

[tx_dem41]

9. Take the asbestos suit off. Its hard to flame you when you don't..

even provide us an illustration of what you are talking about.

[_TJ_]

13. Maybe he means it's 'sexy'

And who could argue with that :7

[HEyHEY]

19. I'm not drawing that

[tx_dem41]

20. LOL...thanks I needed the laugh after the last hour.

:rofl:

[tubbacheez]

14. Well, was the placement of the banana peel ...

... substantially motivated by the sex or gender of possible slip victims?

[senseandsensibility]

17. Whuchu talking bout

Willis?

[Bunny]

18. Do you mean this?

[senseandsensibility]

26. Bingo

I just love saying that. It irritates my hubby no end.:P

[sandnsea]

21. You put the banana peel there

You were hoping for a peek. You know you were.

[leftofthedial]

23. women NEVER slip on banana peels

that is purely masculine schtick

[Sugar Smack]

102. A FRUIT THREAD!!!!!!!!!!

I was getting tired of all the veg- oh, never mind.

:)

[leftofthedial]

105. LOL!

[seabeyond]

24. woman are under pretty heavy fire right now hey hey

between what media has created women to be, the republicans and the christian coalition

think you can give us a break, and we stand up for our right on the other fronts

[ultraist]

27. Yes, we are in the midst of a huge regression of women's rights

Yet people find the need to accuse women of complaining and making false accusations of sexism. :eyes:

I'll write this thread off as yet another majority whining that they are being oppressed. Damn those Gays, women, people of color and non Christians. They should know their place.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEyHEY]

30. But stand up for what really IS worth standing up for

Calling everything sexist trivializes arguments that mean something.

[Pithlet]

33. I do think

women may be a little more qualified to know what is worth standing up for.

I agree that calling things sexism that aren't trivializes the true arguments. That does happen. There were recent instances of that in the whole Schiavo mess, for example, and the Nancy Grace flame incidents. However, we are often told to get over it, or that we're whining over nothing, when we really DO have something to be upset over. So, that will make us a bit jumpy when it comes to accusations that we're overreacting.

[lastliberalintexas]

36. Particularly when the accusation of overreacting

comes without explanation. :)

[Pithlet]

38. I know.

I'm perplexed. How can I defend the "overreaction", or perhaps agree with his analysis of a situation, if I don't know what it is? I hope the point isn't that women tend to overreact and claim everything is sexist...

[lastliberalintexas]

35. You'd have to elaborate here

before you'll get anyone to agree with you. What is "everything"? Is it demands of equal pay for equal work? Is it complaints that women still make only $0.71 for every dollar earned by a man for equivalent work? Is it complaints that child care responsibilities still disproportionately fall on women, even if they also work outside the home? Is it complaints that too many rapes still go unreported, and that even so, an American woman is raped every 10 seconds? Is it complaints that the president of Harvard University publicly asserts that women do not have the capacity for science and math? Is is complaints that women, who make up more than 51% of the US population still comprise only about 12% of the US Congress? What the fuck is "everything"?

No one has any idea of what you are talking about, and without you providing the information that has been requested more than once here, most will just assume that you are simply another man whining about women. Because that *is* all the information you've presented thus far. :shrug:

[bpilgrim]

72. do it in the thread

instead of another persecution whine... it'd be more productive and less offensive to most

fyi

peace

[Logansquare]

28. Slips on a banana peel? What are you talking about?

No really, I have no idea what you are talking about. Please give me a real example of faux-sexism that you find offensive.

[Logansquare]

29. Hullooo, in the Great White North, come back to your thread n/t

[Beaverhausen]

34. Are you referring to the issue of pharmacists NOT filling BC scripts?

come on, a trained monkey knows that is sexist.

It comes from the belief that women must make babies. The belief that procreating is their only function.

They are NOT allowed to enjoy sex.

It is evil.

It is dirty.

It is a sin.

[gollygee]

40. Yep

we should never have sex unless we want a baby. How dare we have access to use a product that allows us to enjoy sex without fear of prenancy?

:sarcasm:

[Susang]

41. I don't think that's a fair categorization

HEyHEY stated that he was against pharmacists refusing to fill those prescriptions. He even linked to an article where pills were made available over the counter. I think the disagreement was only about whether he felt it constituted sexism or not; if I'm not mistaken.

[gollygee]

43. Oh that wasn't directed at him

I know how he feels about it. My displeasure is with phramacists who think they should be able to decide what birth control I use or if I should use any at all.

[Beaverhausen]

44. And that was my point. How is it NOT sexist?

[Susang]

46. Not for me to say in this particular thread

As I don't even know that that was the reason he posted this. He could have something else in mind entirely. I just wanted to provide clarification on one point for those who might not have read that other thread.

[Beaverhausen]

48. If you go back to that thread you will see it

I don't want to get myself in trouble here.

[Spazito]

39. Huh???

banana peel + woman = sexism

and that's it?

[Zorra]

42. Inequality between women and men is so deeply imbedded in

our collective social psyche that it is often difficult for many men, and even some women, to recognize the inequities that exist between the sexes in our historically patriarchal culture.

Throughout history, women have been consider less valuable than men in Judaeo-Christian cultures. Sexism stems in large part from a deeply rooted background in religious tradition.

It takes, IMO, a very empathic and perceptive man to recognize how far the socialization process directly and subtly indirectly reinforces our cultural misconception that women are by nature inferior to men. Even many women have difficulty recognizing this phenomenon, and unquestionably accept an inferior status, because they think it is "just the way things naturally are".

Yes, women have made gains towards equality in recent history, but until the insidious effects of long term status quo traditions and myths are fully erased from our collective psyche, women will not be viewed as equals by many men, and even by some women.

So, women that are aware of this insidious and usually unconscious perpetration of inequality between the sexes can be touchy about this unconscious sexism. You may be being sexist without having a clue that you are being sexist, or as to how and why you are being sexist. The false concept of the inferiority of women is culturally hardwired in, so that, though your conscious mind may not want to be sexist, your unconscious belief systems may prevent you from understanding when you are unwittingly being sexist.

This would, in all probability, be much easier for you to understand if you been socialized as a female. If you are socialized as a male, you are given an unspoken superior cultural status, and may never really take the time to analyze your status. And since you can never have the experience of being socialized as a female, it is far more difficult to comprehend how deep the roots of inequality between the sexes are.

Women and men grow up on the same planet, but almost always in entirely different worlds.

Thanks for asking!

[efhmc]

58. Good grief, that's great. Thank you so much.

[Misunderestimator]

110. What an excellent post!

Thanks.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEyHEY]

49. Coward? No... busy? yes

[dolo amber]

55. Or do yourself a favor

and click the little "x".

[HEyHEY]

59. No doubt - why can't people just ignore me?

I'm obviously making no sense

[Logansquare]

71. Or don't post silly threads and walk away n/t

[HEyHEY]

82. You're a silly thread!

[Susang]

86. No, I heard you are!

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

<ever notice how easy that smiley is to execute on the keyboard? I could do it all day!>

[Pithlet]

81. Hey, now that's unfair.

I like HEyHey, too, but you can't post something like this without giving details, post just enough to kick and give a little bit away, and not expect people to react.

And, what this ultimately ends up being about is that women complaining that having their access to birth control blocked are complaining that it is sexist. I was thinking it was going to be something like, oh, a risque joke that someone got offended over, maybe something to do with a banana peel. But, no. Access to birth control? Silly women! I'm sorry, but he should take his lumps over this. Or maybe learn what sexism is and how it affects us. I don't think it's fair to tell everyone else just move along, nothing to see here... particularly since this is in GD and not the lounge.

[theHandpuppet]

74. Ditto that!

And the poster is obviously not too busy to read and make multiple posts to his own thread, despite claims to the contrary.

What a pointless thread and waste of space on an otherwise constructive forum.

[truebrit71]

50. Because a banana is shaped like a phallus silly!!

...also ducks and covers....

[Blue Belle]

53. I think that if we are to have a real discussion...

We're going to need more information other than a random observation (which I feel is from the previous thread, "Pharmacist refuse to fill Birth Control Prescriptions"). Could we have some examples? Perhaps your definition of the word "Sexism"?? That would give us a better start.

BTW the definition of Sexism (courtesy of Dictionary.com):

sex·ism: (skszm)n.

1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.

2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

[HEyHEY]

54. That is what spurned the thread

However...it's that it's a constant thing I see on DU that made me post this one.

[lastliberalintexas]

56. Are you kidding me?

You don't see pharmacists refusing to fill BC prescriptions as sexist? Under what rationale? It's gender based discrimination and sexist by its very nature, no matter the intent of the wrongdoer. So how in the world do you personally classify such acts?

[HEyHEY]

57. Religous fanatics forcing their views upon us.

[redqueen]

Their sexist views.

I must agree that it's sexist... do they similarly not fill viagra prescriptions for unmarried males? Somehow, I dobut it...

[HEyHEY]

62. But if they didn't - would you consider that sexist?

[redqueen]

66. Only if they DID give out BC to unmarried women.

I suppose that to me, sexism means that the sexes are unfairly being treated differently... so I'd have to see evidence of such unfair treatment before I would use that label.

[lastliberalintexas]

92. Who's the "US", kemosabe?

When was the last time you read an article about men being denied contraception? When that starts happening, maybe then I'll agree that it's *only* religious nuts imposing their beliefs on the rest of us. Until then, it's religious nuts imposing their beliefs on WOMEN. Sexist indeedy.

[ultraist]

101. Women who call out the discrimination of that law are overreacting?

Right. :eyes:

And Blacks and Gays who claim they have been discriminated against are paranoid.

[Blue Belle]

60. Can you give some other examples?

Other instances where the phrase "sexism" was misinterpreted?

[HEyHEY]

63. Of the top of my head I can't I'm sorry

Next time I see it I'll pm the link

[bpilgrim]

73. the DU orthodoxy

strikes again :p

peace

[SarahB]

61. My question, HEyHEY...

:wtf:

Seriously, there is sexism in the world. Women have to do their part to be strong and not abdicate their power, but sexism remains nonetheless.

[HEyHEY]

64. I agree

But my argument is that not EVERYTHING women say is sexist is. I see posts here all the time that just aren't sexism issues, but they're made out to be.

[Pithlet]

77. I don't know

You use, as an example, one of the most blatant examples of sexism. I mean this respectfully; I'm not sure I'm going to you as an arbiter of what is and is not sexist.

[HEyHEY]

78. See but I don't think it is sexism

I think it's religious people trying to control the rest of us, they do it in many forms all the time.

[Pithlet]

83. Okay.

You are somewhat right about the religion part, although I think it would be more accurate to say that it is people using religion as an excuse to control the rest of us. See, there are lots of bizarro little tenets, like stoning your children for being naughty, that thankfully most sane people no longer adhere to. For the most part, most of us pick and choose from our religion what we are and are not going to adhere to. I don't think it is an excuse for any behavior, sexist or otherwise. I don't think you can claim that a sexist act is not sexist because religion is what motivates it.

Put another way, a lot of what is behind those rules that some religious people choose to highlight and use, while ignoring others, is sexism. The rules that go along with the whole birth control thing, such as men are head of the house, for example, are based on a long tradition of sexism.

Finally, if you're going to pick an example of reactionary accusations of sexism, I think you picked the wrong one. For, even if you were right, this is an issue that directly affects women only; affects their bodies and their decisions. Can you really fault us for claiming that it is sexist, if it arguably weren't? If you are really interested in making your case, I'd drop this issue. I do think you're wrong in your assessment that denying women birth control is not rooted in sexism.

[HEyHEY]

84. I think I made my case

People just don't agree, Ce'st la vie!

[Pithlet]

87. I don't think so. How about this.

There are some men who use religion as an excuse to dominate their wives and girlfriends because their religion tells them that men are head of the house. Would you consider that sexist?

[HEyHEY]

89. Yup, and assaholic

[Pithlet]

91. Okay.

Then how is it not sexist for anyone to deny a medication that is used almost exclusively for women, and not always for birth control, based on their religion? What is the difference?

[HEyHEY]

93. Because his belief is that because of his religion

Humans shouldn't stop babies from being born. I think, personally, that his issue is that. Not that it's a woman and she should do what she's told because it is written.
Is this guy denying birth control to men? I mean that too, I don't know - is he?

[lastliberalintexas]

97. Can't you see that the 2 are intertwined?

It's not an either/or issue here.

[HEyHEY]

99. Okay let me ask you this then

If he refused BC to a man getting the shot - would that be a sexist issue?

[lastliberalintexas]

104. If no such denial was made to women,

then yes it most certainly would be gender based discrimination and sexist.

It is the fact that the decision is made based on the gender of the person, not the actual decision itself which is important. Again, condoms haven't yet been pulled from the shelves of the pharmacies which are denying BC prescriptions. Until that happens, this is a gender based decision and not actually religious objection to contraception.

[Pithlet]

98. So

Before I can be outraged, I have to ask the person person who is coming between me and my doctor, and dictating to me what birth control I can or cannot use what their motives are? I'm sorry. This kind of shit has been used subjugate women for hundreds of years. It is very possible the person denying me my birth control is worried about the little eggies in my ovaries and equating them to babies. But it is also very possible that he/she is just a sexist prig. At any rate, I don't think you, or anyone else, can tell me that I can't claim an act as sexist that has been used to subjugate us. I'm not going to walk away from such an an encounter after patting the guy/gal on the back and congratulating him for sticking to his/her principles, and treating me the way women have been treated through out history.

Tell you what. If it hurts a person's sensibilities to be called sexist to that extent, then maybe they shouldn't study to become a pharmacist (which I'm assuming covers birth control during studies) and then wedge themselves between me and my doctor. I think women have every right to be outraged over this, and call it what it is. I can't believe that anyone would use THAT as an example of women overreacting.

[HEyHEY]

100. I don't think women are overreacting hey they should be pissed

I just don't think it consitutes sexism. Though I see and understand your argument.
Either way I think we've gone as far as we can on this one.

Cheer Pith

[Pithlet]

103. I guess so.

I was hoping I could get you to see how inherent the sexism is in this. I at least hope you will think more on this.

[HEyHEY]

106. oh, for certain

[Beaverhausen]

95. Most religions are very sexist

they are patriarchial and based on the notion that women are sinners.

[Karenina]

108. Now listen up yung 'un

Don't make me slap you into next week! :spank: Dear One, YOU have only a rudimentary detector of what "sexism" is, never having had that stick rammed up yer butt. Your detector on "racism is similarly V1.0, full of bugs, the first one being your inate assumption that you "decide" what is or isn't and declare it, rather than first asking questions of those affected. THAT, in itself, is an "assumption of superiority." Never mind that women having easy access to pharmaceuticals that empower them in their personal health care is BASIC to a healthy society.

Slip on a banana peel, indeed. How about having BUCKETS of 6mm ball bearings thrown at your feet on a marble floor :spank: :spank: :spank:

If you got some vestige of respect fer ya elders, SHUT UP AND LISTEN. The pharmacist shit is SEXIST and WHACKO, Du Scheisse :spank:

If you're reacting to the TS/NOW bullshit that's been floated , let's do talk more...

[Pithlet]

109. It is rather like

telling someone else how much their stubbed toe should hurt, if it should hurt at all.

[Karenina]

113. Actually, more like

busted lip, blood everywhere, blackened swollen eye... "OH SHE'S JUST FAKING! I didn't hit her THAT hard... :evilgrin:

[bpilgrim]

112. "I see posts here all the time that just aren't sexism issues"

but you just can't think of any, sure. must be really eat'n u up inside, eh :p

peace

[skygazer]

65. I really haven't the faintest idea of what that's supposed to mean

I gather from some of the responses that it may stem from another thread about pharmacists refusing to fill BC prescriptions, something I certainly view as sexist.

However, I can see how some men would feel that women complain about "silly" things. The thing is, all those "silly" things add up and create a societal climate that does tend to be inherently sexist in the form of less pay for equal work, less opportunity for advancement and all the other areas we are familiar with.

Take one example. I play pool, used to play a lot. When I first started playing publicly, in bars and places where you put your name on a list and played the winner of the last game, I almost always was treated condescendingly by the male players. Sometimes they'd point to a spot on the ball and tell me, in a voice like that of a kindergarten teacher speaking to a very slow student, "Hit it right here, honey, and it will go into the side pocket." And they were always stunned and embarrassed when I won.

I've never in my life seen a man treat another man like that, no matter how bad the guy played. No, they always played through and when the game was over, shook the loser's hand and said, "good game."

That may seem minor but it's only one of a thousand instances of sexism that women have to deal with pretty much on a daily basis. Does it get tiresome? You bet it does.

So if it seems like women cry "sexism" at something that seems relatively benign, maybe looking deeper would afford you some insight of just what it's like to deal with this all the frigging time.

[Blue Belle]

68. Bravo.

Well said. :applause:

[BlueIris]

69. Neither do I. I have no idea why this thread remains up.

[OKNancy]

85. nice post

skygazer

:thumbsup:

[ultraist]

107. Oh, I'm not so sure. skygazer may be over reacting and/or being paranoid

I'm being sarcastic of course.

[Sparkle]

70. This thread sounds like lounge material to me.

[Beaverhausen]

75. GD is the new Lounge

I keep telling people that but no one believes me

:popcorn:

[HEyHEY]

79. No we need to have a few more sexual innuendo threads first.

[HEyHEY]

80. I'll file that under "Opinions I don't care to hear"

:P

[Catherine Vincent]

76. Alright, what the hell did I miss?!?!

[pmbryant]

88. I suggest you not be so quick to dismiss women's concerns

See this post from Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly about the current assault on women's newly-won, but still very incomplete, freedom:

Now, it's true that not all hot button social issues are gender related. School prayer and guns aren't, for example, except in a fairly abstract way. But take a look at the other social issues that raise blood pressure the most and the sex/gender basis underlying them is striking:

* Sex education
* Abortion
* Sex/porn on TV
* Contraception
* Gay rights
* Welfare (overwhelmingly a problem of single mothers)

This is not just a random, unconnected list. For the most part, social conservatives have made their peace with racial equality — in theory if not always in fact — but are still adamant about enforcing traditional sex and gender roles. This is the glue that binds all these issues together. The latest example came a couple of days ago from the Washington Post in an article about the growing "Pharmacists Rights" movement:

An increasing number of clashes are occurring in drugstores across the country. Pharmacists often risk dismissal or other disciplinary action to stand up for their beliefs, while shaken teenage girls and women desperately call their doctors, frequently late at night, after being turned away by sometimes-lecturing men and women in white coats.

Needless to say, there don't seem to be any pharmacists out there who object to filling prescriptions for Viagra. Last year, Michigan even considered a bill called the "Conscientious Objector Policy Act," which would have allowed pharmacists and doctors to refuse to perform treatment they considered unethical. Notably, the act specifically prohibited doctors from withholding treatment on the basis of race, but not on the basis of sexual orientation. It was practically an invitation to discriminate against gays and lesbians.

This is why gender equality per se should get more attention from the liberal community: because it's the underlying core of so many emotional, election-deciding issues. I know, I know: this kind of talk is just so 70s. And it's true that the tone of feminist rhetoric — especially academic feminism — probably puts off a lot of liberal men, including me from time to time. But it's hard to make headway on all these disparate issues without understanding the core sensibility that drives so many of them. We shouldn't allow pique to get in the way of that.

What Drum leaves out is the very important, and still unresolved, issues of wage discrimination. And there is much more, as well.

And actually, Drum gets it wrong in the last paragraph, in my opinion. Liberal (men) shouldn't pay more attention to gender equality issues because it's the core of "election-deciding issues"; we should do so because it is the right thing to do.

What exactly was your intention in posting this poorly-thought-out thread?

--Peter

[Susang]

94. Interesting article

Thanks for the link. :hi:

[ultraist]

96. You made the point nicely pmbryant!

I don't understand why it is so difficult to understand that injecting misogynist mores, that are rooted in the Bible, into our laws is sexist.

This type of legislation is a text book case of institutionalized sexism. Most of the sexist attitudes in our society stem from the "Christian" culture.

[JanMichael]

90. It's the same with fat sloppy men.

I agree completely.

[Misunderestimator]

111. ...

:spray: