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Enraged American Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:36 PM
Original message
Wesley Clark will be the most electable candidate.
1. He's a Southerner, and we Democrats need to take some Southern states to win.
2. He's a former general. This is sure to get some patriotic, idiot Repukes to swing votes.
3. Did you hear what Rash Limbaugh had against him? He was basically calling Clark an idiot! If this is the only thing that the belligerent neocon talk show fascists can come up with (along with the typical, "He has no experience" junk) then we have nothing to worry about.

Sure, I don't think a victory for the Democrats with Clark as president would be my favorite type of victory. I've been looking forward to a victory that would symbolize the end of the "Ohhhhh, no. Crazy Allah-worshipping Muslims are going to blow up my local Walmart store and take away my freedom" state of mind of America. Clark can only, however, profit from this horrible mentality. But at least he'd be less fascist than the junior shrub.

I am waiting for him to denounce Ashcroft and establish his party platform.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm waiting for him to run
and tell people where he stands
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. LOL Me, too.
He hasn't even announced and we already have a thread about the "e" word. I think they're all electable. That's our job. To elect the winner of the primary, no matter which candidate that happens to be. And it's doable. It's ours to lose. We ought to be able to run Clifford the Big Red Dog or Raggedy Ann against * and win, with his record.

As a local dem activist here in my neocon community just told me today,

"I'd vote for a tree if it ran against Bush."
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southern democrat Donating Member (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. The more Limbowells agianst him the more I like him
And you are correct,Clark is a powerhouse from the south.Hell of an asset.
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't listen to Limbaugh
Would you mind recounting in detail? I'd like to know.
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Enraged American Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I don't either.
I read at a thread here that Limbaugh said, "Clark doesn't know what day of the week it is, was 100% wrong on Iraq... he's the tenth dwarf of the Democrats" (something like that at least.
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Your right
If that's the best they can do it's over.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. I heard a lot of that today
I did some volunteer work for the Draft Wesley Clark campaign at a street faire today. Many many people said the same thing. Many had favorite candidates but were still excited about the propect of Clark entering the race, many signing up to support him and campaign for him if he did enter the race. Many were drawn to him because of Michael Moore's letter, which seemed to trump any concerns they may have had about his being military. Many were people who just couldn't get excited about any of the other candidates. Some were also undecideds just looking for information.

I was expecting a quiet day because this is a pretty heavy duty Dean area, but we had a constant stream of people - many were Dean supporters who were still interested in Clark.

So we shall see where all this goes. Maybe he will go far, maybe he won't, but after today I think he will have lot's more support at the get go than I initially thought.

MzPip
:dem:
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Clark supporters
at our meetup there was only one other person who had ever worked on a campaign. I'm pretty sure several had never voted before. There were Zen Budists (for a General?) who liked Clark and LOVED that it was a grass roots effort to get him to run (rather than an ego tell us he's the best.)

We're gonna need some experience but if he starts resonating with people who have never voted, independents, Republicans AND the base, he could win.

Like so many other people, I first heard Clark on TV. I thought "who did they say this guy is? A General who is telling the truth about Bush?"

He taught economics. He's a Rhodes Scholar. He'll pick the right people to help him. I hope.

Now, if we can just get Carville off the box and on top of it, stumping for us, we can't lose!
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. What is his "message"?
Who is his base?
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Veek Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. SpikeTrees and all interested...
Check out www.digitalclark.com
and www.meetclark.com/faq

As far as his base? He's attracting the whole
spectrum of Democrats as well as Independents
and moderate Republicans.

I consider myself a liberal Democrat for
whom Kucinich's passion and message
resonate, but was in support of Graham
and Kerry prior to hearing Clark on Meet the
Press on June 15. After hearing his well-articulated,
well-reasoned position against the war in
Iraq, I was sold immediately.

:kick: He is the most viable Democratic candidate.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. Welcome to DU Veek!
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 09:25 PM by Clark Can WIN
It's a little wacky here sometimes but there are tons of well informed and passionate people here. I have also seen some of the very best humor anywhere on the web right here. Glad to see you on the Clark team as well.

:pals:

edit for sp
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
38. Hi Veek!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Michael Moore sent this letter endorsing Clark
A Citizen's Appeal to a General in a Time of War (at Home)

September 12, 2003

Dear General Wesley Clark,

I've been meaning to write to you for some time. Two days after the Oscars, when I felt very alone and somewhat frightened by the level of hatred toward me for daring to suggest that we were being led into war for "fictitious reasons," one person stuck his neck out and came to my defense on national television.

And that person was you.

Aaron Brown had just finished interviewing me by satellite on CNN, and I had made a crack about me being "the only non-general allowed on CNN all week." He ended the interview and then turned to you, as you were sitting at the desk with him. He asked you what you thought of this crazy guy, Michael Moore. And, although we were still in Week One of the war, you boldly said that my dissent was necessary and welcome, and you pointed out that I was against Bush and his "policies," not the kids in the service. I sat in Flint with the earpiece still in my ear and I was floored -- a GENERAL standing up for me and, in effect, for all the millions who were opposed to the war but had been bullied into silence.

Since that night, I have spent a lot of time checking you out. And what I've learned about you corresponds to my experience with you back in March. You seem to be a man of integrity. You seem not afraid to speak the truth. I liked your answer when you were asked your position on gun control: "If you are the type of person who likes assault weapons, there is a place for you -- the United States Army. We have them."

In addition to being first in your class at West Point, a four star general from Arkansas, and the former Supreme Commander of NATO -- enough right there that should give pause to any peace-loving person -- I have discovered that...

1. You oppose the Patriot Act and would fight the expansion of its powers.

2. You are firmly pro-choice.

3. You filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of the University of Michigan's affirmative action case.

4. You would get rid of the Bush tax "cut" and make the rich pay their fair share.

5. You respect the views of our allies and want to work with them and with the rest of the international community.

6. And you oppose war. You have said that war should always be the "last resort" and that it is military men such as yourself who are the most for peace because it is YOU and your soldiers who have to do the dying. You find something unsettling about a commander-in-chief who dons a flight suit and pretends to be Top Gun, a stunt that dishonored those who have died in that flight suit in the service of their country.

General Clark, last night I finally got to meet you in person. I would like to share with others what I said to you privately: You may be the person who can defeat George W. Bush in next year's election.

This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff. We need candidates in this race who will say the things that need to be said, to push the pathetically lame Democratic Party into have a backbone -- or get out of the way and let us have a REAL second party on the ballot.

But right now, for the sake and survival of our very country, we need someone who is going to get The Job done, period. And that job, no matter whom I speak to across America -- be they leftie Green or conservative Democrat, and even many disgusted Republicans -- EVERYONE is of one mind as to what that job is:

Bush Must Go.

This is war, General, and it's Bush & Co.'s war on us. It's their war on the middle class, the poor, the environment, their war on women and their war against anyone around the world who doesn't accept total American domination. Yes, it's a war -- and we, the people, need a general to beat back those who have abused our Constitution and our basic sense of decency.

The General vs. the Texas Air National Guard deserter! I want to see that debate, and I know who the winner is going to be.

The other night, when you were on Bill Maher's show, he began by reading to you a quote from Howard Dean where he (Dean) tried to run away from the word "liberal." Maher said to you, so, General, do you want to run away from that word? Without missing a beat, you said "No!" and you reminded everyone that America was founded as a "liberal democracy." The audience went wild with applause.

That is what we have needed for a long time on our side -- guts. I am sure there are things you and I don't see eye to eye on, but now is the time for all good people from the far left to the middle of the road to bury the damn hatchet and get together behind someone who is not only good on the issues but can beat George W. Bush. And where I come from in the Midwest, General, I know you are the kind of candidate that the average American will vote for.

Michael Moore likes a general? I never thought I'd write these words. But desperate times call for desperate measures. I want to know more about you. I want your voice heard. I would like to see you in these debates. Then let the chips fall where they may -- and we'll all have a better idea of what to do. If you sit it out, then I think we all know what we are left with.

I am asking everyone I know to send an email to you now to encourage you to run, even if they aren't sure they would vote for you. (Wesley Clark's email address is: mailto:info@leadershipforamerica.org ). None of us truly know how we will vote five months from now or a year from now. But we do know that this race needs a jolt -- and Bush needs to know that there is one person he won't be able to Dukakisize.

Take the plunge, General Clark. At the very least, the nation needs to hear what you know about what was really behind this invasion of Iraq and your fresh ideas of how we can live in a more peaceful world. Yes, your country needs you to perform one more act of brave service -- to help defeat an enemy from within, at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, an address that used to belong to "we, the people."

Yours,

Michael Moore
Lottery # 275, U.S. military draft, 1972
Conscientious Objector applicant
mailto:mmflint@aol.com

http://www.michaelmoore.com


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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. that's not an endorsement
Moore didn't give Clark his "endorsement", he only urged him to run. two different things.
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phegger Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-03 04:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
40. Also:
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Whatever???
I'm getting bored with his indecission
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. This can be
nothing but good for us. The more ideas we float out there the better our chances. I am looking forward to hearing what he has to say and add to this wonderful group. The RW can say we have no issues but all it will take is one listen to this group for people to discover we have lots of issues and truly are the big tent party.
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Veek Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Expect an endorsement from the Clintons
Clark will probably declare this Wednesday, early in
the day.

Clinton recently stated that currently there are two
stars in the Democratic Party: one is the junior
senator from New York ;-) ,
the other is Wesley Clark :party:

Clark's a winner! :toast:
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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. I want him to run..
not just to derail the "Dems are soft on national defense" crap, but because he's got a solid record. NATO supreme commander. Smart. Committed. I like him.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. he already has ...
The Patriot Act is one of his first targets.
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Fixated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. .....
Enraged, did you flip-flop? Weren't you skeptical of Clark? Did someone already ask this?
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think he ties with Kerry in electability
And that state of mind you speak of isn't really the case with most Americans. I'm looking towards Clark to do what Bush should've done with Foreign Policy, the defense department, and homeland security. Also, anybody who denounces John AssholeCroft is good in my book.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. He will
n/t
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. if he's running
then let him goddamn announce and face the music.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. who are ...
you supporting right now?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Dean. n/t
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. so ...
why do you care if he runs or not? I mean, if he joins late, how is it any skin off your nose?
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. political flirts chap my ass.
I could probably support Clark, but jesus, enough with the coyness. Let the man get out there with the rest of them and mix it up if he's going to.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. have you considered ...
the possibility that he is putting togeher an organization that will emerge full blown with the announcement along with policy positions on the issues?

And just maybe that is something that should be done before the coming out party.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. sure.
But if he's a serious contender for the presidency, why hasn't he already put that organization together?

Nothing against the guy, but the suspense and the "he's a general!" swooning haven't convinced me.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. perhaps other facets will then ...
and organizations don't just apper magically. It does take time. Time will tell.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. true enough.
Perhaps they will. Wasting daylight, though.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Wasting nothing
I can't believe how much air time Clark has received during this "I've not decided" phase. Seems lots more than any other candidate. I think it was calculated.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. oh, I'm sure it was calculated.
Air time != time in the primary wringer, though. Anyone who thinks that Clark's stars will get him a pass on the wringer is deluding themselves.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. I don't think Clark's stars will give him a pass. I'm sure that
General Clark doesn't think they will give him a pass either. It's a fact that Clark has never run a campaign. He needs considerable prep to run a presidential campaign. While he can cite national security issues in his sleep he cannot do the same with domestic issues. I'm hoping that he will hit the ground running..this week.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-03 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. It's manipulative
and lame. I don't like being toyed with, personally. Politics is one thing, but messing with potential supporters heads for political gain is another and it doesn't impress me. I want someone to lay out their intentions and platform.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Welcome aboard Enraged American
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 09:19 PM by Clark Can WIN
Glad to have you. I promise you, starting Wednesday Wesley Clark will give you more to be enthused about and will set your mind at ease on many issues. I am looking forward to a wild, wild ride myself.

:toast:

Let the games begin!
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. I was hoping for Tuesday
As the week goes on the hurricane will be making landfall, making news and causing power outages. Hopefully not, but that's the way it looks right now.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. EA
If this man makes it past the primaries, he will win. And if he wins, we will all be pleasantly surprised. Clinton could have done more to please progressives and less to placate the reich, but they made sure he couldn't govern.

Clark_because he will be perceived by the average voter as moderate will slide all sorts of goodies through for us. He will do that because the repugs won't be able to demonize him...it's those four stars you know. Watch for star wars to get defunded.

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karlschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
23. I was leaning toward Dean 6 months ago, before he was known, basically
to anyone. And I still like him. A lot. But I could easily support Clark because he may well have a better chance of defeating Shrub (IF we can get a fair election)


To my mind, the most important thing is to get rid of the lying sumbitch squatting in the White House. And I'll support anyone who gets enough mileage to depose the scumbag bastard Bush.

It's really fairly simple to this simple fellow. ;-)
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