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Hate Radio - cause of another American civil war (like Rwanda)?

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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 05:55 PM
Original message
Hate Radio - cause of another American civil war (like Rwanda)?
Will people like Hal Turner, Rush, Hannity, and the likes, cause violence against liberals? Would Americans kill other Americans again because of the hate spewed by these people?

Some of these people have been on the air for over 15 years inciting hatred for Dems and liberals. Hate radio was given a lot of credit in the genocide that happened in Rwanda, and that hate has continued to cause loss of life in Darfur. Talk is dangerous.

Thoughts?
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Pigboy Limpballs Rush railed against Tom Daschle so much
that Daschle actually had threats made against him and his family and he neede to get extra security. I've always thought the anthrax sent to his office came from a ditto head.
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Krupskaya Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. I remember thinking that right after the election.
How Bush had everyone in the palm of his hand (he's squandered that, like he squanders everything, of course, but this was then). There was so much "righteousness" on the behalf of the other side that they really did feel like God was on their side, and if their great leader so much as said, "This victory shows what part of the American people is with us and which part is against us," there would have been blood.

I firmly believe that.

I also think that the echo-chamber the right-wing hate radio provides can definitely be a force for evil. People really believe everything they hear, for all the "librul media" crap they spew.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I have seen a few comments made in freeperland and maybe
reading about what Hal Turner said, that liberals are not even human. Dehumanizing was one of the hate radio tactics in Rwanda, calling Tootsies (sp?) cockroaches. Also, didn't that happen in Germany when hitler didn't think the Jews were human? To seriously sick right-wing nutjobs, making liberals less than human will make them easier to kill.



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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. it is not just the radio
the following is from a LTTE that I wrote in response to a column in my local newspaper by Joseph Perkins:

"Perkins column is not a reasoned discussion of ideas, but a vitriolic attack against people who oppose the Iraq war and/or oppose Bush. Look at the words he uses to describe us (Americans like me who exercise our constitutional right to oppose Bush and all his insidious ideas) - "ugliest, decayed, degraded, miserable creature, unworthy, perverse, absurd, and knee-jerk critics". We are motivated, he says, by politics, not by principle. The principled people marching to oppose war are "useful idiots" according to Perkins.
He is talking not only about war protestors and "Bush-bashing opinion writers," but also "those stumping for the Democratic presidential nomination".
Finally, he ends his hate-filled column by once again insinuating that we are traitors - "Their opposition, their criticism is fuel not so much by reason, but by hatred - toward their president or toward their country.""

When you mentioned de-humanising, I thought of how he called us "miserable creatures". I concluded:

"That would be an interesting test. If Bush tried to: raise the minimum wage, help the unemployed and working poor, protect the environment, prosecute corporate crimes, appoint moderates as judges and cabinet members, enhance civil liberties, raise taxes on the top 5%, tell the truth and admit his mistakes, call for more cooperation and less vitriol, or try to create peace - if he did some of that, would we still hate him? Please try it, Mr. President.
Could Perkins point to some of Bush's positive accomplishments instead of bashing Bush's critics? Does Perkins think it is wrong to hate a President who lies to us? Is it wrong to write: "And it is because of the sum total of his transgressions ... that is no longer fit to occupy this nation's highest office." or "And your man, the president, is a scoundrel of historic rank."
Certainly that is what we believe when we read David Corn's "The Lies of George W. Bush", but those two quotes were written on 9-18-98 and 8-18-98 as part of the odious oeuvre of Joseph Perkins - an apostle of a gospel of hate."

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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. You're right, didn't Ann the Man Coulter in her book say something
about talking to liberals with a baseball bat or something like that? And the freepers love her.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. worse, two guys on TV were "joking"
about taking a crow-bar to Hillary Clinton.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. THAT IS SICK, which show were you watching? nt
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I did not see it
it was quoted on the Daily Howler.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. Yes, you're correct on Hitler and his dehumanizing the Jewish...
He had propaganda films made that were juxtaposed with pictures of rats. He called them rodents, less than rodents. That was part of the brainwashing that occurred to desensitize people from standing up to his Jew-baiting hatred.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
73. Do you think we have learned enough from history to avoid this again?
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
80. Short answer -- no.
Unfortunately, I do not think we have learned very much at all, as we witness glaring similarities between what we consider a dark part of history and an all too melancholy present. I do not think we will avoid it, and while I do not think we will take that exact path, we sure seem to be following a road map of some sort.
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mogster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
114. True. The Jews were compared to rats.
There's still some way to go before the rethoric resembles the Nazi-propaganda of Goebbles, though. But dehumanizing/demonizing is clearly a part of the Neocon campaign against liberalism.

I can't understand that people buy this crap again and again.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. I have seen it a couple of times recently.
I made a mental note of it and then moved on to other things, but I don't know if this is the beginning of de-humanization of liberals or if those were just isolated instances. I guess we will just have to keep paying attention.

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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. It could...
I believe we're in a cold phase of a civil war now, the catalyst for the shooting is yet to come. The nation is becoming more polarized each day and discourse, which was already strained, has devolved into shouting matches.
The local fundamentalists have spoken up on a local Freeper-type call in program and have officially labled us as evil. Several callers have stated that our "evil" must be confronted and fought. Now, that said, it's not too much of a cognitive leap to include "kill" into the equation. Arm yourselves, buy extra canned goods, network with trusted neighbors, and prepare before it's too late.
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phish420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. I hope so...
Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 06:03 PM by phish420
...I know that sounds weird, but I really hope they do lose it and just start trying to take us out. Maybe then the rest of the country will see how insane they are. They've alread lost A LOT of respect from a lot of people after this whole mess (yeah, its amazing but some people actually did have and for some reason even still do have respect for that terd). But yeah, I get a kick out of seeing these protesters - the Randall Terry's and the like - they are being exposed for the whacko nutjobs that they are. Ill be a martyr. Bring em on. Come get me motherf*rs. Im not afraid.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
87. I'm with ya
Come get me mother fuckers :D
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. considering their contribution to bolstering wars of abstraction
Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 06:12 PM by ixion
I'd say that they're already inflicting violence on progressives.

On Edit:

And by that I mean, for example, the number of non-violent pot smokers have been sent to jail because cretins like these advocate the so-called 'War on Drugs'.

How many people's lives have been ruined by these fascists, lives ruined under the banner of 'helping' people. :crazy:



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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Limpballs has done damage for 17 years here in Tn. nt
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. I am absolutely positive that Limbaugh had a huge influence on my
Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 06:06 PM by CrispyQGirl
mother. She had just gone through a wicked divorce (equally her fault) & then suffered a major health crisis & started listening to that hateful, fat-ass windbag. In 15 years, she has gone from being a kind-hearted, generous, fun person to hang with to being a mean-spirited, hateful racist who's only fun in life seems to be provoking everyone she comes into contact with.

O'Reilly has become her new master the past 5 years or so & her meanness has gotten worse. I hate these fuckers!

I absolutely believe that given the right circumstances they can & will incite violence against liberals.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's amazing just how persuasive they are using false facts.
Maybe most people are too lazy to check facts, but the spin is tremendous and powerful and if someone takes them (the hate radio people) at their word, they almost become possessed.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. i don't think they want to check facts, they want to be fed
the bullshit to keep their rage level at 11.
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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
116. Rage can be an addiction
The hatebox is the pusher
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. True, I see that all the time! nt
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. not if noone checks the facts
thats why i am so glad we got AAR, finally :bounce:

peace
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. my extended family has been riddled
with bitterness and ill feelings due to hate radio. Our family gatherings are fraught with hostility and anger. The hate-radio folks get outraged by anyone who disagrees with whatever drivel Limbaugh, O'Reilly, whoever has spouted. Nevermind what you've read or experienced. They worship the hate-talkers.
They've turned sensible, caring people into people who mistrust and fear. I'm sorry for you. And for me. For all of us.
These hate radio/TV hosts are a plague.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Is it because anger creates an adrenaline rush? I know that sounds
silly, but I know lots of people that have to have something to be "against" in their lives to keep them getting out of bed each day. Is adrenaline the answer?
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. I think adrenaline is part of it, honestly. It gives people a "high,"
and also encourages them to see the targets of hate radio as the cause of all their difficulties. I never understood the appeal of hate radio, even when it was first starting. It seemed dangerous to me then, and even more dangerous now.

The scary thing about human nature is that it's so easy to inflame people, encourage hatred, and induce violence. And most don't have the objectivity to realize that they're being played.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. That kind of indoctrination is indeed scary!
On the other hand, I notice sometimes that the * admin goes in the completely other direction and tells us that "everything is OK, everything is working out, don't worry, be happy". We even joke about it here on DU. That kind of indoctrination is just as dangerous, putting us to sleep while they work on the "business of the day".
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. It's all part of the grand strategy ... make us pissed off at the wrong
people, while the actual bad guys wave at us from behind the curtain.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
110. Yes! I think you're onto something
it's the sense of having a purpose. Of feeling something other than malaise and impotence. They're doing something! Hating!
Look at the photos of the folks down in Florida praying for Ms. Shaivo. They now have purpose. They're not out helping the poor or the dispossessed. They're not working or taking care of their children. But they have a reason. AND the limelight. They finally count. It's all about them. Their egos. Terri Shaivo is merely the catalyst for their own beneficence.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Know what ya mean, I have a father (92) a brother and son
that worships the cocksucker.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hate radio has coarsened discourse
to the point of outright rancor. Too many hate-radio listeners rely only on hate-radio and cite what they hear as "news". It's not. It's propaganda without respect for facts. But it's successful. And that's what the purveyors care about -- the revenue. Nevermind that this discourse is ruining our country with division and obsession with lies. Hundreds of people are now employed to lie. Either on the radio or through Swiftboat Liars or the hired guns on Faux. There is no understanding of truth. As a result, we are becoming a nation with those who read and care about our country, and those who are led around by the power elite.
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. "News"
Exactly! Too many people consider it "news" when it's really on the intellectual level as pro-wrestling.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. There is another question - WHY DID THE SWIFTBOAT LIARS
GET AWAY WITH THEIR LIES? When Kerry did come out and say they were lying and even after the proof came out, people still believed those lies. Hate radio and talk shows - is that the answer?
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. timmy mcveigh!
tim mcveigh said he believed the country was doomed cuz of clinton and liberalism and political correctness....when he was in jail he met ted 'unibomber' kazcynski and their discussions were recounted in a book by a couple of buffalo ny journos....mcveigh realized his hate for the federal gov was mistaken...his ideas (all the militia movement/posse comitatus/survivalist/white supremists) were fed by hate radio backed up by the msn, mainly fox and cnn...several msn bigshots, including limbah-humbug, have denied they inspired the okl city bombing...mcveigh also felt gulf 'war' 1 was bs..the iraqis had no chance...mcveigh killed 2 iraqis who were too far away to shoot back, and he felt it was murder.....
the rightwing led the anti mcveigh chorus in case anyone noticed...his trial/execution happened fast, in part because tim felt he had been greiviously mistaken, and helped the bfee to get rid of him...at the end, mcveigh had become 'one of ours' or at least that's the impression i got from the book...the nazipoos of course felt they dodged a bullet with mcveigh, and emboldened, things like the swift boat vet scam are almost inevitable....
SO remember this MANTRA! the okl city bombing was inspired by rush limbo and the US media! they can deny all they want, but being fukking liars, no one (not even freepers) can believe them! and this time, osama and arabs etc can't be used to muddy the water!
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. OMG, I had not heard that about TV saying that in a book.
Amazing...
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. actually (ahem) you do know that the bomb used at Okl City
wasn't a fertilizer/diesel fuel smoker....it was a 'air fuel' type that caused extreme static in the moments before it blew....mcveigh of course knew his homemade bomb had nothing to do with 168 deaths (had the ryder truck bomb blown up by itself, no one inside the murrah building would've been hurt...like KAL 007, or like flight 587, or like the Kennedy assasination, or like hinckley case, or like 911, or the public effort to blackmail the United Nations by bushinc in days before the iraq invasion, the phony mathematics just doesn't explain the results...and the bfee gets away with it cuz it's just easier to accept bs then consider what the truth means (we've been conquered, at least news wise)...the book i mentioned never even touched on these facts...they went along with the fiction that the fertilizer bomb actually exploded to 8000 degrees (or whatever the Ok city bomb attained)
lol...
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
47. was fox even on the air (at all or long enough) to influence him?
not sure of the dates - but I think the OKC bombing may have either been around the time Fox News came on the air - or very shortly after it came on air...
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. true...i was being facetious
fox'news' is an oxymoron iow a buncha bs....lol. nevertheless, when one wants to create an exxagerated sense of a propaganda news org, the word 'foxnews' does it better then...even better then 'pravda' or 'tass' ever did!...
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. lol - in the us media context, they have made
tass and pravda rather passe!

Do young folk even know tass if they don't do crossword puzzles?
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
109. it's a choice
people make on who to believe. Never mind that the men who actually served on the boat with Kerry stood up with him, literally, and put their names and faces on the line. Never mind that all of his medals were found to be deserved. The truth no longer matters. It's ideology only. The truth is gone.
You can give all the hard facts straight out to a hate-radio listener and it just doesn't matter. They want to stay with Rush or Bill or Sean. The truth is scary and complex.
The hate-talkers are fear-based manipulators. Truth has no place in their arsenal.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. History could repeat itself
in Newton Co AR in the mid 90s, there was a proposed sale of timberland to big business. Local environmentalists, who knew that local loggers would not clear cut with a lot of damage, opposed the move. The big business brought in speakers who told the locals that we were out to 'destroy their way of life'. This load of fertilizer was reinforced by the local newspapers and radio. Our message was lost-and then the worst started happening.

Several people, myself included, were followed closly by cars, lights flashing, who tried to run us off the road while we were driving to work (luckily at the time, I was working for a state supported institution, and had a friend follow me home in a van with an official state seal. The harrassment stopped.). Around midnight one night, a drunk local and his buddy came to our house with loaded guns, ready to kill my husband. It was only when he told them he worked for a local logger-and to call to verify-that they left. One of my fellow environmentalists wasn't so lucky. He was severely beaten and his house burned to the ground. The perpetrators were never prosecuted, either, as far as I know.

Ironically, the big loggers came in, clear cut, wasting trees and destroying beauty-and didn't hire one local to help, either. Since then local loggers, including my husband's employer, have had to go our of business.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. That's the kind of stuff I'm afraid of. You must have been terrified!
A few small instances and things just get out of hand. It can be out of anyone's control in a flash.
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jedr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. I think one of the only things that will prevent such a thing,
is the fact that we're mixed together and not geographically separated as was the north and south in the civil war....no ghettos to separate libs' from Conservatives .... no skin color to give away your idenity..if it were not , I feel that we would be headed that way
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yugoslavia was mixed as well...
and look what happened there. Yes, I know, there were deeper religious conflicts going on over time, but I believe such an eruption in the USA would make Yugoslavia look like an exercise in chivalry.
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jedr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. could yellow stars be next?
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I look at my repub friends here in my very "red" area...
and wonder if things went that far, would they take up arms against me? They would win cause I have no guns!
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jedr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I'll loan you a few!
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Steel City Slim Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
79. Identity
My bumper stickers will give me away.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
24. What's Really Happening Is That Hate Radio Is Filling The Void
Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 06:35 PM by Yavin4
left by the economic devastation of our economy. Contrary to what the economic spinmeisters say, our economy is in a horrid state. The fastest growing economic class in America is the working poor. These are the people who are working 2 or 3 jobs, yet they're still poor. People are far less secure in their economic lives than at any time since the Great Depression. In fact, for millions of Americans, they already are in the Great Depression.

Enter hate radio and enter Christian evangelism. Both of these groups fill the void by pointing to a scapegoat, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Gays, African Americans, Immigrants, and Liberals. The insecurity gets translated into anger and rage at the other. The next step is violence, and the Schiavo case gives them license to commit violence, esp. when U.S. senators refer to judges as "tyrants". Folks, that's almost a license to kill.

I'm afraid that things will get worse long before it gets better. Make plans to either fight or leave. I'm choosing to leave.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. I will fight if it comes to that.
I think I would be terrified to do so, but I won't be leaving. I might send my kids somewhere else if the draft comes.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. filling a void? no, a deliberate TAKE-OVER
while many drank the kool-aide (reacted to the programming) and cheered them on.

peace
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
33. I listened to Rush the other day
and he is definitely hateful and hate mongering. And he can't shut up about Clinton. And he's a drug addict.

Folks apparently love this stuff.

I try to think if I get hateful when I listen to Amy Goodman on Democracy Now! I do indeed, but not at any one party, rather at the policies of both for the last two hundred years.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Why do you think they love it? nt
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. because it appeals to their base instincts?
I dunno. . .

maybe it's because it's a simplified message, "we're good, they're bad" and there's no actual civil discourse that encourages productive though and action.

All I know is, it's poisonous.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. I've even noticed here on DU that when things get a little heated,
the sh*t hits the fan, and we aren't having civil discourse with each other any more. The problem is heated and inflammatory language and what it triggers inside each of us.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #34
103. Because they give people a target for their frustrations
Hate radio jocks like Limbaugh boil everything down into the most simplistic of black-and-white views and give listeners someone to blame (other than themselves) for all of life's problems (immigrants, gays, liberals, working women, academics, Muslims - you get the picture)!

In the short run, I suppose, many people are more comfortable blaming someone else for whatever may be going wrong in their own lives. In the long run, obviously, it solves nothing and creates a society of intolerance and fear.
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jedr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
53. Bush and Delay are both ex-alcholics....seems to be the thing
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
38. They already incited against doctors, and deaths occurred. Judges
are next. If they cannot control them, they will spin until there are killings in every state.

Neocon pundits are using inflamatory language on a daily basis. I am being to believe that was why they stirred the Shiavo story. They want the judges taken out or intimidated anyway they can.

This is not tin foil time. This is Krystal Nacht time.
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FreeCajun Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I agree, 'Lib'rul' Nacht " is on the way (/nt)
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Bring it on..
I'll send them to meet their maker.
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MaraJade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #42
82. I know that so many of us are against guns. . .
But this is one very good reason for us to be armed. I know that if any of these wingnuts try attacking me or mine, I will happily send them to an early meeting with their maker.

There is no need for us to be like sheep led to the slaughter. They need to know that there is a very definite price to be paid for attacking "liberals." If the single brain cell that the whole lot of
them have among themselves ever tells them to listen to the perverse advise of the pigboy and initiate any type of attack against us, I hope (for the sake of dear Liberty) we will be found ready to meet them.

And yes, I DO hope that the "can less than a six-pack" crowd at Freeper central read this.

Don't Tread on ME!
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. I gather, then, that you will not be fighting in the "Ghandi" style?
hehe!

Seriously I hope it never comes to anything like that.
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MaraJade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #83
90. I hope that it never comes to that either. . .
But I, for one, will never go peacefully. If those wingnuts are looking for trouble, they will have come to the right place for finding it if they ever attack me or mine.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. Followed by us kicking their fucking asses. n/t
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FreeCajun Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
39. If you know some of the people I know... (*shudder*)
I've seen lots and lots of pissy, angry, gun-owning morons given "lib'ruls" as a proper place for their anger over the fact that the economy is tanking and the fact that their lives are so crappy. Don't say I'm stereotyping; I *KNOW* these people. Until a few years ago, I was friends with some of them; hell, I was almost one of them.

They never blame themselves or take actual responsibility for their own stupidity when they obey the TV and vote for corrupt people who screw them over. They blame "libs" and say that newspapers that question the Rush-n-Bush deific duo are "liberal rags" and it is getting nothing but worse. These people are terrifying in that they believe whatever Rush tells them to and own lots of guns and don't have much human empathy or ability to reason. I've lost a lot of friends in the past few years to that attitude and it spreads to the weak and the powerless and the angry, which I once numbered myself as. Their number just keeps growing because it is easier to hate when pointed in a direction than actually solve problems by thought and consideration, which is why they lost me.

I believe most of the ones I encounter have been subject to child abuse growing up (which is more common in these Red States than in Blue States). Their biggest paranoia is of unpredictable, authoritarian figures who tell them how to run their lives (reliving child abuse memories), this is typified in their minds by the UN's opposition to the US rather than by Bush's lies. They have a sort of mental block here, which most of us seem to either have gotten over or to have never had to deal with; they REFUSE to believe that someone higher up and "on their side" could possibly mean them ill or lie to them, and if they do its "for their own good" like any good beating. This is how these "cookie-cutter Messiahs" like Shrub and Hitler and Jim Jones gather their hordes of underlings.

Alice Miller's "Drama Of The Gifted Child" speculates that this sort of thing led to Hitler's rise and looking at the evidence, I think that America's current situation is very close to what happened in Germany in the early '30's, right before they started hunting down "liberals" and "intellectuals" and other "undesirables" like blacks, gypsies, gay people, and Jews.

Of course, quite a few of them left the country and helped us to win that war.... Thankfully, conservatives don't tend to be into "science" and all that smart stuff.

America is heading for a fall, and in a big way. I doubt there will be a civil war: one or two protests will be brought down in a hail of gunfire and blamed on the protestors turning violent; I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, but I don't doubt that it will.

Thank G-d Bush & Co have stuck their nose in the Schiavo case and some of these morons have gotten off their knees, put the pants back on the radio, and wiped their mouths; the merest glimmer of the notion that they've been licking the naughty bits of the GOP's commercial advertising spokes-"people" is starting to hit them. Maybe it'll slow our slide into hell down a bit. After all, German militarism was "appeased" only enough to give everyone else a chance to arm up and get ready to kick their ass, and look at China ramping up its industry. History repeats itself.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. thoughtful post, I'd never thought of the "abused child" theory
until now. Maybe that's part of it.

If it comes to violence, do you think your ex-friends will come for you?
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Mr Blonde Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. I think you're overreacting
Most of the people I know and deal with are either Democrats, moderate Republicans, or indifferent. (Then again, I've lived in New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.) The Pinellas Park interlopers are a fringe group. I seriously doubt we'll ever see a hot war in this country.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. I hope you are right, but I get the feeling we are living in a tinderbox.
Welcome to DU! :hi:

This Shiavo thing is not really what I'm concerned about. I think the country is on mostly even footing here. But the fringe element is always the most dangerous.
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FreeCajun Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
119. I don't fear them.
I doubt if any of my former friends would ever come for me; I just faded out as quietly as possible. I've noticed that a lot of these people are cowards both physically and intellectually, hence the obsession with owning guns and "homeland security." It's how you get them fired up about terrorism and the bogeyman; they're scared little people already, and just like a terrified dog they are more likely to bite.

Its the ones who aren't that aren't obvious bigmouths that I'm worried about, the ones whose fears they are playing on. For every hate-spewing pundit there are several like the nutcase who contracted to kill Michael Schiavo and Judge Greer.

I asked a few of my friends to tone down in October because I can't stand any kind of inappropriately violent speech or anything, but it wouldn't stop. Some of these were college educated people and I thought a few of them could possibly at least explain their positions but it was all just blind anger and non-stop ditto-heading; it got to the point where they were talking about conspiracies among the "Democratic elite" with that whole George Souros fiasco during the vice-presidential debates with "Factcheck.Com". I had to get out, it was too disturbing.
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MaraJade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
85. All the more reason to meet these sorts of people with the one thing they
respect. . .force.

They are little more than unreasoning animals, barely domesticated enough to avoid making messes in the house.

I say if they dare to attack, we be ready to meet them where they live with the one thing they respect.

Don't Tread on ME.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #39
113. the child abuse angle
is something i have thought of for a long time. i see these assholes, and i think, another abuse survivor. another emotional cripple. when are we going to stop this kind of shit?
i saw a good bumpersticker the other day-
a happy childhood lasts a lifetime. stop child abuse.

the corollary is that i have always thought the 60's was the result of a generation of babies that were well fed, well loved and not beaten. they would not fight. end child abuse and hunger, end war? always seemed obvious to me.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
49. Yes. The Bush strategy - create tribalism in the USA. Yes..this is why
propaganda is illegal and why they had to have a long war in order to get away with using propaganda. The War works for Rove in many ways. Hussein is a monster & Iraq weak.. so it was an easy thing to do. ***holes.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. I wonder if rove learned that propaganda works so well...
on Americans due to the success of Rush et al?
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
57. Hate Radio is VERY dangerous and appealing to the GOP
Will people like Hal Turner, Rush, Hannity, and the likes, cause violence against liberals?
------
These people are causing a rise in the level of hatred towards Liberals in this country. And they have a LOT of help from Ann Coulter, Faux News, Conservative churches, and right wing newspapers.
Lucky thing for Liberals is that most republicans are too lazy and cowardly to ever really take any action. But, there is always a few right wing wackos out there - heck, we have one as our President right now!
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Unfortunately, most is not all
It only takes 1 Freeper in 100 to cause havoc all over for liberals... wasn't there somebody on here last year who had their dog killed by a Freeper type?

And, who knows if that letter of inquiry from the IRS you just got is legit, or sent by some crazy Freeper in the IRS wanting to play havoc with people that gave money to liberal causes?

Or, the little ding in your car that you never saw before was from some Freeper that was angry at your anti-Bush bumper sticker?

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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
64. Republicans are Cowards
Or, the little ding in your car that you never saw before was from some Freeper that was angry at your anti-Bush bumper sticker?
========
I think republicans are chickenshit cowards, and I plan to get an anti-Bush sticker for my vehicle. These Bush-Nazis cannot be allowed to intimidate us.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #64
108. don't get an anti-Bush sticker
Get an anti-Republican sticker... If we focus our hatred on Bush so much the next 3 years, the next Republican candidate will get votes just because he's not Bush.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #108
118. Good Point
Get an anti-Republican sticker... If we focus our hatred on Bush so much the next 3 years, the next Republican candidate will get votes just because he's not Bush.
------
I'll get an anti-republican sticker. I enjoy pissing off the right wingers as mush as possible.

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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #60
84. Clint Curtis.
Computer programmer type. See election 2004.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
58. I don't think that sort of thing will happen.
There is far more apathy in the average American than righteous anger.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. So you don't think the hate radio thing works on most of Americans?
I agree that apathy is a big problem in this country. That's why only 1/2 of those who could vote, did. But there are lots of people that I percieve as dangerously stoopid and they are armed.

rocky, do you think I am :tinfoilhat: ? I hate to think apathy would be a good thing in this case.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
72. Well, think of it this way.
Half of people did not vote. Half of those who did vote voted for Kerry. That leaves us with 25% of the population who voted for Bush (approx. I think the real figure was 28%)

Of those, let's assume half are really into "hate radio" and would act on any incitement to violence. That leaves us with between 12.5 and 14 percent of the population. Lots of Bush voters would probably say either "I held my nose voting for him, no way I'm going to kill or risk being killed for him" or "I love Bush, but I'm not going to kill other Americans, especially women and children".

The other day when someone posted a link to a TS thread over at Free Republic, someone there had posted that they hoped God would destroy America. Someone else quickly told that hoser to "go stand over there with Osama". Most people aren't under the hate radio spell. Even a majority of those who are wouldn't kill someone. If you want to be worried about splinter groups or crazed loners, that's one thing. There are plenty of those all over the place. But fretting over half of the country deciding to massacre the other half sounds like misplaced energy to me.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Oooh, math...I was much better at history.
You make a lot of sense and I'm getting on in years. I don't need to be misplacing any energy, that's for sure. I am working on the other things I can do to eliminate this bug in the White House. These are just thoughts I have when the weather is gray and cold.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
62. I was just thinking about this
a few days ago when I watched a new HBO movie about the Rwandan civil war with my daughter ("Every Year in April" or something like that). I didn't know about the significant role the "hate radio" broadcasts played in that horrific period of violence in that country. I didn't know that some of those who were the on-air "voices" at that time have been tried for war crimes until I saw the movie.

It struck a strong chord for me, given the surge in hate radio in this country in recent years. I think it has a terrible and very real impact on the perspective and (God help us) even the actions of far too many "average" Americans today.

Good post. Scary stuff.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. shari, I saw that movie last night and that is what made me ask
this question. I remember thinking how dangerous the radio was there in Rwanda when I saw the movie "Hotel Rwanda". Both of these movies had a strong impact on me. If people hear things many times, no matter whether those things are true or not, they will start to believe some or all of it. Kind of a brainwashing thing, I imagine.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. The parallel is so striking
to me, I'm glad to know someone else saw it, too - though really distressed that it exists at all.

Hate radio has a huge reach into the American psyche these days. And exposure over a long period of time...who knows? Most scary is the stuff that you and I call "hate radio" is becoming accepted as mainstream by far too many these days.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I guess it's the de-humanization thing that scares me most. nt
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
65. I said we may see the first new shots of a civial war:
I started a thread here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Also, the verbal shots is some ways are deadlier than the real ones.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. I read that thread and thought it interesting!
You never answered the question about the freep thread you posted. What did it say?
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #67
112. I can't remember for the life of me...I think something about killing
judges, and mr. schiavo...
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
69. This is but one example of what I'm talking about:
http://www.halturnershow.com /

In case you don't want to give this creep a hit on his website, he says that anyone who stops someone (for instance, the Fla. Guard) from taking Terri in order to save her should be killed.
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
70. Didn't anti-liberal hate radio start in the '30s?
IIRC?
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. I don't know, what's IIRC?

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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. If I recall correctly?
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Mr Blonde Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. IIRC =
If I remember correctly.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
77. I think you make an excellent point
I think that's a very valid concern. My fav blog, Orcinus, talks about this a lot.

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/03/our-little-osamas....

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_10_10_dneiwert_archiv...


"We don't want to get rid of all liberals. I want to keep a couple, for example, on every major U.S. college campus so that we never forget who these people are."
-- Rush Limbaugh


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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #77
88. That Limpballs quote is exactly what I am talking about!
thanks for the example
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
78. hate radio in Rwanda?
I'm way stupid about this. Can you point me to a better education? I'd like to explore this issue in depth.

Thanks.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-28-05 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. I can plead mostly ignorance, but the first I had heard about it
was in the movie "Hotel Rwanda". Then I saw the HBO movie "Sometimes in April". Both are movies about the genocide where the Hutus killed about 1 million Tooties, both tribes in Rwanda. In the run-up and during the genocide, there was one radio station that was inciting this violence, calling the Tootsies cockroaches and generally de-humanizing them so that neighbor would be OK with killing neighbor.

Both movies are excellent and I highly recommend them. I learned some about the genocide that we did nothing about, probably cause there was no oil in Rwanda.

Heartbreaking!
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #81
106. yeah, the lack of oil
means we do nothing! It's so frustrating.

I've been wanting to see both movies. I'll make a point of it now.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #78
104. Some background
I didn't know much about this either, but saw one of the movies cry baby mentioned the other night. I do not think the impact of hate radio should be underestimated.

Some links on the history of hate radio and the Rwandan conflict:

http://www.internews.org/mediainconflict/mic_rwanda.htm...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/749079.stm

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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #104
105. Thanks for the links, I'll be reading up on the subject, too.
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #104
107. thanks!
I'll check those out!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
86. I agree that they are inciting violence and should be executed as such
There is no excuse for what they are doing to our country.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #86
89. Mr_Spock, you're feeling spunky tonight, I can tell!
:evilgrin:
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #89
91. LOL - you made me chuckle!
I get all weird when I feel emotions - stop that :D

You know who got me fired up? That Malloy character was going off as usual tonight - really fires me up - and he's a friggin' riot too. HE made "Jesus on Trailer Hitch" famous also and mentioned seeing the thread here on DU. Man, that was an instant classic!!
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #91
92. I just now tuned in to malloy, he's so good...
I wish he wouldn't get me riled so late at night, I always have trouble going to sleep when I'm listening to him.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #92
93. He's burnt out now
His rant's earlier burnt him out :D
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #93
95. Well, maybe I will get some sleep tonight then...
*snooze*
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. You can cry yourself to sleep!
lol :rofl:
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #97
102. Quite the snarkmaster....
I bow to you! :applause:
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AutumnMist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
94. So what should we do - limit speech on radio (ala fcc)?
What is hate anyway? I have a problem with all this really.

When the right bitches about crap on tv and wanting to censor it, we say turn the channel. Why does not the same apply here? Is our faith in mankind such that we think others are weak and we are strong and that if 'they' listen to it 'they' will become violent (whereas we will not if we listen to things because we are better?).

I dunno, the whole thing seems a little odd on some levels.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Lynch mob!!
Yeah, let's drag them freepers out onto the street and burn them at the stake!!

There do seem to be a lot of idiot red-neck that believe the lies they tell and are likely to act on false information - at least from what I've seen when I hang at the local red-neck bar (don't ask why I go there :D )
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. careful, don't get zapped by the mods.....
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. Oh, don't get caught up in my eye-candy "Subject"
It was just to get a few "click-ons" - hehe
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. whew...
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #94
98. My personal opinion is that if a media person says that he/she
would like to see liberals killed or dead, that is hate radio. Any media person that is repetitive in insisting that liberals are not human, that is hate radio.

Is it your opinion that the propaganda that Hitler put out didn't make any difference - that the Jews were treated the same before as they were after they began to exterminate them?

I do turn the channel, but many do not.

I believe that the people who listen and are influenced are either (1) lazy or (2) ignorant. That doesn't make me better, just smarter.

Watch "Hotel Rwanda" or HBO's "Sometimes in April" to see the effect that hate radio had on that genocide.

I don't want censorship - I guess I just think we should be aware.
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skeptikal Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-05 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
111. Thomas Jefferson...................
said, "The tree of liberty must at various times be refreshed with the blood of tyrant and patriot alike." Forgive the paraphrase, but he was essentially advocating overthrow of the government on a regular basis.
He knew of the tendency of a centralized government to become tyrannical over time.
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