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Face the Nation: Kerry proposes Dean/Kerry debate

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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:58 AM
Original message
Face the Nation: Kerry proposes Dean/Kerry debate
This came in response to Bob Scheiffer quoting Dean to the effect that he wished Kerry would say to his face what he's been saying behind his back (I think--emphasis on think, as in not completely sure--Dean was responding to the relative lack of attacks in the last debate). Kerry said they should go head to head to discuss their differences. Scheiffer offered Face the Nation as a forum and suggested the possibility of an expanded show if Dean were to agree.

I'm thinking the other candidates would be less than enthused to see this happen.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kerry said he ACCEPTS Dean's challenge to go face to face.
It sounded to me like he took Dean's own words and played them to his own advantage. If Dean wants Kerry to go face to face with him, well....Kerry just accepted. Heh.
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tsipple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Works for Me
Although Gephardt and Lieberman ought to get the same chance, since they're ahead of Kerry in many polls.
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. Seasoned pol Kerry deftly usig his wit and wile
Howard asks for it, Kerry needs it, TV would love it, the other candidates are standing around with their mouths open at being left out and it will likely be bad for the good doctor. If he refuses it looks bad, if he agrees I don't think he can match wits with Kerry.

Damn, didn't realize Kerry had it in him ? But once again, Dean lets an adhoc out that comes back to bite him.
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tsipple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'd Take That Bet
Kerry's got a huge Iraq problem, and of course Dr. Dean would hit that hard, particularly on Kerry's claim that he voted to threaten force. I don't know why Kerry is sticking to that.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Because ALL resolutions for use of force are threats....
and used for coercion. EVERY one of them.

He also has Powell nailed as being the one who promised that was exactly how it would be used.
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tsipple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. And the Resolution Was Also Authorization
Sorry, not buying. Nor is anyone else.

A threat is easy. Pass a resolution that provides for an emergency vote if the President only asks. That's a threat. Kerry voted for much more.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. You can't change the fact that ALL force resolutions are coercive tools
That's why they word them with outs for the the targeted party. Sure Bush handled it incompetently and duplicitously, but, that doesn't change the overall purpose of a strongly worded resolution.
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. hey, I've been wrong before but I don't think I am this time
so name your stakes !
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. Nahh, he won't look bad if he refuses
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 11:43 AM by Eloriel
And I hope he refuses. There's no reason for Dean, the front-runner, to share the spotlight and thereby elevate Kerry to 2nd place.

In fact, there's a winning response right there: Sen. Kerry forgets that there are other candidates who are just as viable if not more so than Kerry. We already have a series of debates lined up. I look forward to seeing him there.

Eloriel

Edited: clarity
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. BAM! Exactly... turn the spotlight right on Kerry's arrogance.



Highlight the way that guy has gotten a lifetime of special treatment, just like W, and he thinks that he should get a special one-on-one debate that excludes all the other candidates.

Why cant Kerry make his attacks to Deans face in the debates that are already scheduled? Why because he knows hell look like just a big a fool as his DLC pal Lieberman did when he tried it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Lifetime of Special Treatment...KERRY???
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 02:26 PM by cryingshame
Or Dean who went skiing during Vietnam?

No matter who your candidate is... can't we refrain from making such absurd comments?
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HazMat Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. Dean can't handle Matt Lauer or George Stephenopolous
Kerry would destroy Dean in any debate - Kerry is an incredible debater.

I doubt Dean would accept the challenge.

Dean is better at the whole call and response preacher thing in front of a crowd of sycophants -- not debates or interviews where facts are involved.

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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. kind of harsh !
he does know facts but simply has not competed at this level.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. I keep hearing that Kerry is some great debater...


yet in the debates so far all I have seen him do is pump out 45 seconds of meaningless prattle and 15 seconds of excuses, when asked a question.

In both debates Dean, Gephardt, Sharpton, and Kucinich all did better than Kerry.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Those aren't real debates, just forums.
But, it would be incredibly illuminating to see a REAL debate held with a REAL debate format. All of us should agree on that. Why would anyone but Bush run from a REAL debate held under traditional debate format?
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. yes it would be very interesting indeed
n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. You should have heard Kerry's Senate debate speech
in which he embraced the entire package of Bush lies about Iraq and WMDs. Some bloody debater that Kerry!
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. Dean wishes KERRY would say it to his face!!!!
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That's funny.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. it's a lousy idea
those two aren't the only ones running.
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. that is exactly the point
it gives the public a perception of there beig a clear top and bottom group. Thats the beauty of it.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Beltway manipulation of public opinion
Exactly
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. that is not the beauty of it, that is the arrogance of it
yuck
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Exactly, Kerry needs to pull his head out...


He continues to come off as if he thinks this nomination is somehow rightfuly his, like he is entitled to it because he played the insider game like he was supposed to.

Dean is leaving Kerry in his dust... and Kerry is trying anything to present himself as the number 2 guy, when in fact he's more like number 4 or 5.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. Clever move by Kerry but I don't think Dean is that stupid...
Why should he make it a two-man race when he is winning the nine-person race?? Why should he give Kerry more credibility than Gephardt and Edwards and others? It wouldn't make political sense...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. It was Dean's words being used to challenge Kerry.
Kerry took them into the OPEN political arena.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
32. Dean said he wants Kerry to make attacks to his face...


not that he wants to help Kerry hold onto a #2 spot by having a debate between just Dean and Kerry, to the exclusion of all the others running.

Kerry's arrogance is impressive, as is his ability to take a challenge which could be met in any of the debates already set up, and try to spin it into a challenge for a one-on-one debate.

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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. no, it makes no sense to do it but how to decline acceptably ?
he DID challenge Kerry to say his things to his face and now Kerry is saying OK, where and when. Careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

This will be a terribly interesting response from the good doctor.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
33. Easy for Dean to call this arrogance what it is...


He made a challenge for Kerry to say these things to his face... which could be done in any of the upcoming debates.

Yet Kerry wants a special debate with the frontrunner that excludes all the other dems running, even the ones ahead of him in the polls?

All Dean has to say is, see you at the next debate where everybody gets to be there... he's not going to do a special "give Kerry the spotlight" debate to help pump life into Kerry's dying campaign.

Why does Kerry think he deserves special treatment? Why does Kerry think he should get to do a special one-on-one debate with the frontrunner that excludes all the other candidates?

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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. no, the debate formats don't really allow that
unless the panalists do you a favor.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. Kerry/Dean debate bad idea for both of them
The idea is to find out who is the best Dem candidate to run against Bush. We can find that out with a bloody one-on-one slugfest between these two where the only winner would be *.
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sham Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. exactly...
This is ridiculous. If they're going to face off, let them do it in an open debate in which ALL of the candidates are present. Wesley Clark is about to blow this race wide open. It's too soon to make it a two horse race.
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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. I don't agree
I can see that Kerry would torch Dean in an actual debate format, and said torching would impact primary voters.

A nice showing last time from Edwards helped him markedly, a reaming would hurt as lot.

Of course he would have to accomplish the reaming...
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here's how it all started
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
18. If they debate each other alone at this point, I swear I will not vote
for either of them.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
21. Behind his back?
I guess it's okay that Dean criticizes other candidates
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OrdinaryTa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kerry's Getting Desperate
Kerry bet on the wrong pony when he supported Bush's war. He doesn't have the issues and he doesn't have the personality to make up the difference. He's as wooden as Al Gore, and his physical appearance is homely.

Give it up, guys! Kerry's going nowhere ....
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Yes, this is unfortunate. Kerry is getting VERY desperate.
I hate this part of campaigning. I hate seeing basically decent people making fools of themselves.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
26. Same old special treatment Kerry...
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 01:48 PM by TLM

Dean says he wants Kerry to say things to his face so Kerry wants a special debate between just him and Dean?

Kerry wants to try and ride on Dean coattails... while excluding all the other candidates.

Face it, Kerry could say these things at the regular debates, but he won't because he wants to stand back and let his DLC tag team pal Lieberman do the dirty work for him.

Kerry knows he'd come off looking foolish and desperate if he were to say to Dean's face what he's had his campaign say behind his back, so he's dancing around it. Kerry will only stop being a back biting little coward if Dean agrees to a special debate... that's the kind of spoiled brat behavior I'd expect from W.


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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Dean is DLC, even more centrist than Lieberman.
So why would he Lieberman hang out with someone so far to his left as Kerry when he should be MORE comfortable with his fellow centrist, Dean.
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TLM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Kerry and Lieberman are both current DLC members....
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 02:22 PM by TLM
are they not, BLM?


That's the same DLC that said Dean was a fringe leftist because he was against the war and that dems who did not support the war were not real dems?

Seems to me there is a real theme to the attacks on Dean from the DLC crew of Lieberman and Kerry. They want to paint him as anti-military and weak on defense... be it regarding isreal or the UN.

Yet both Kerry and Lieberman and their DLC misjudged the support for the war. They thought that being for the war and being pro-military would win them the day, but they were wrong. So now they are falling in the polls and desperate for some way to attack Dean.

and BLM it is not about who is left or who is center or who is moderate... it is about who is an insider and who is an outsider. Lieberman is a DLC insider, just like Kerry. These are guys who feel they have a right to this nomination because they spent years playingthe game, voting for war, voting for tax cuts, kissign W's ass etc.

Dean is an outsider, and he's pulled the dem support base right out from under the DLC and their boys Lieberman and Kerry.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. HAHA...centrist Dean pulled Dems to the center.
Kerry STAYED on the left.
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