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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:45 AM
Original message
Fallout from Alabama's tax vote
Read and weep.

Gov. Riley has submitted his budget with many cuts to agencies around the state. He did this because his hands were tied due to Alabamians failure to pass his tax package.

People believe that government is full of pork and waste - and that is the story that was sold to Alabamians in order to get them to vote "NO". Well, now we see the outcome. The following was extracted from an article from Saturday's Birmingham News:

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/n...


Educational Community Service Grants - $11,724,139
Children's Hospital in Birmingham, $846,545
Educational grants for private college students, $5,305,944
Tuskegee University, $4,726,461
Soil and Water Conservation Commission, $3,157,089
Network of Child Advocacy Centers, $2,802,000
Rural volunteer fire department grants, $2,483,875
Immunizations by the state Health Department, $2.3 million
Forestry Commission, $1,722,000.
Grants for "critical needs" at two-year colleges $1,571,727
Sickle Cell programs, $1,435,662
Student assistant scholarships , $1,326,933
Two-year college grants for emergency medical services education, $1,167,012
East Alabama Child Development Center, $1,051,673
Coalition Against Domestic Violence, $814,332
Department of Youth Services special program for female offenders in Mobile County, $609,700
Children's and Women's Hospital, Mobile, $608,437
Alabama Shakespeare Festival, $563,086
Arts Council, community arts grants, $494,547
Grants for scientific studies, equipment and training, through the state Health Department, $490,652
Teacher education scholarships, through the state Education Department, $421,382
Teacher education scholarships, $406,520
Medical scholarships, $395,694
Minority business training at UAB, $337,680
Emergency medical services improvements, state Health Department, $348,428
AIDS Alabama, formerly AIDS Task Force, $317,992
Birmingham Regional Medical Services System, $317,539
East Alabama Emergency Medical Services, $317,539
North Alabama Emergency Medical Services, $317,539
Southeast Alabama Emergency Medical Services, $317,539
West Alabama Emergency Medical Services, $317,539
Various unspecified grants passed through the Office of Prosecution Services, $300,000
Defibrillators for Cardiac Arrest Survivors Commission, $300,000
Rural health initiatives, Family Practice Rural Health Board, $250,000
Drop-out prevention program, Alabama State University, $200,000
HIV education, state Health Department, $200,000
National Center for the Study of Civil Rights and African American Culture, Alabama State University, $187,000
Early warning sirens, Emergency Management Agency, $175,000
Mine safety training, through ADECA, $150,000
Civil Air Patrol, $125,000
Jobs training program, West Alabama University, $100,000
Hepatitis vaccines for children, state Health Department, $100,000
Hepatitis blood screening and vaccinations, state prison system, $100,000
Mediation training for judges, $100,000
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, they're cuts from the budget.
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 08:54 AM by Cronus
At first I thought you were listing their budgets, until I read the article.

This is exactly what the Republicans want. I think they will look on this as something worthy of framing and using as incentive for the next round of tax cuts.



Click Here To See Fair & Balanced Buttons, Stickers & Magnets!>
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think you are correct
However, I think that the average rural Alabama Republican voter will be affected and may see the light on this.

I think that the powerful Republicans don't give a crap if the Sickle Cell program is cut, for instance. And Emergency services in East Alabama doesn't mean much to them.

But a lot of people will be affected by these cuts.

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soupkitchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. The thing I like about Alabama
Is that it proves there is no relationship between low taxes and a vibrant economy. In fact it might prove the opposite.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Amen to that
Ever driven through Southwestern Alabama? Talk about economic problems!

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Prodemsouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. Maybe Alabama will turn in to a lesson for the rest of the country.
That all this Reaganomic, Tax cut, Grover Norquist junk was a bunch of horseshit.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. The irony of all of this
is that Riley - a self-proclaimed Reaganite - saw that those theories were bullsh*t when he got into office, and he decided to do something progressive.

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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.
And I'm damned sick and tired of being the nation's example of how not to run a state.
Betcha if they cut high school athletics (FOOTBALL!) we'd hear the howls all the way to Mungumry and back and maybe change some peoples' way of thinking.
:grr:
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Exactly, Trof
Cuts for emergency services? No big deal.

Cuts to atheletics! Oh my god!
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. You know what would be more useful?
As an Alabamian, I would like to see a list of what is NOT being cut. Just seeing the cuts is certainly distressing, but not very helpful. It seems that this is what the Republicans wanted all along -- cuts in every area where government provides services to the needy.

In order for the taxpayers to evaluate whether our state government is doing what we want, we have to be able to compare what they are spending tax dollars on with the things they are telling us must be cut.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I'd agree
It would be interesting, Liz. In fact, we might be able to get on the State of Alabama web site and look at last years line item budget. From here we could determine which programs are being "saved". I'd imagine that Riley is not cutting some programs that are near and dear to the GOP heart.

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uptohere Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I agree. Can't judge pork with only one side.
n/t
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soupkitchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Remember hogs don't call it pork
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Cuts for the needy?
Which of these serve the needy?

Soil and Water Conservation Commission, $3,157,089
Forestry Commission, $1,722,000.
Alabama Shakespeare Festival, $563,086
Arts Council, community arts grants, $494,547
Various unspecified grants passed through the Office of Prosecution Services, $300,000
National Center for the Study of Civil Rights and African American Culture, Alabama State University, $187,000
Civil Air Patrol, $125,000
Mediation training for judges, $100,000


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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Well, let's see...
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 11:55 AM by Stuckinthebush
We won't mention the ones that you failed to mention that deal with health, immunizations, emergency services, etc. I'll just look at your list.

Soil and water conservation - a big thing for Alabama farmers.

Alabama Shakespeare Festival - One of the brightest things in Alabama. These cuts go to assisting schools to bring children from around the state to engage in cultural eduction.

Arts Council - Similar cuts as those to the ASF. Of course, we in Alabama don't need no stinkin' culture. Just don't touch our football!

Office of Prosecution Services - Perhaps not going to the "needy", but very important if you ask me.

National Center for the Study of Civil Rights - Can't have civil rights studied in the epicenter of the Civil Rights movement. That would be terrible. I can see how Alabamians would see this as "pork".

Mediation training for judges - Hell, when you have judges like Roy Moore, who needs any type of training? Sure, this is pork. Can't have judges doing a good job, now can we?

I'll again second what LizW said, we also need to look at the "pork" that will not be cut to see what is important to the state GOP. Personally, I don't find much pork in this list. I guess if I were a strict Libertarian, it would all be pork, but I feel that governments can be there to make life better in the state whether it is through crime prevention, EMT services, funds for Children's Hospitals, funds for museums and cultural attractions, or funds to Historicaly Black Colleges and Universities. Call me wacky.

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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. This is what Paul Krugman has suggested (warned us about):
The bankrupting of budgets will require closing down safety-net, social service and health programs. This is how our culture is being Hoovered into the next century.

I think churches are unable and in many cases, unwilling, to make up even part of the difference. And I suspect that many would have special requirements for recipients to get aide.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe he should have done what Dean did
when faced with a recalcetrent legislature on this issue of tobacco taxes. He released the cuts he would ask for and threated to veto the restoration until the tax was passed. Maybe if Alabamians had known what would be cut they would have voted differently.
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warmi Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. Excellent
People have spoken.
Shut up and take it.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Ah, yes...
The people have spoken. They didn't want those kids with cancer at Children's Hospital to receive services!

Go people!

Ain't the GOP grand? They just make me so proud to be an American.

(sarcasm off)
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. More like a tr*ll has spoken.
Just a hunch, ya know.
;-)
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. The poor have been raped.
Shut up and take it.

180
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. This is pathetic
and sad. Here's a state that ranks 50th in education and the governor would like to do something about that. But ohnooooo mustn't raise taxes. Better to stay at the bottom than pay a little bit more to try to make things better.

Maybe some freeper out there can explain to me how all these cuts will help educate the children of Alabama.


MzPip
:dem:
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. They don't want to educate children
I got in an argument with a right winger in Alabama the other day who used the argument that redistribution of wealth to poor school systems is akin to socialism. They see education as a competition or as a zero sum game. They don't see education of all the children in Alabama as a good thing that will eventually help us all out.
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Noordam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. no the Repugs will just tell the sheep that they will stop
the Welfare Mothers that own Caddies from getting checks and all will be OK. Ya Right.
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Warren Stuart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. What would Jesus do?
The ironic thing about this whole affair was that Riley had attempted to frame his budget (which lost) as a Christian responsibility to those less well off. There are numerous references in the Bible in which Jesus had strenously advocated this very thing.

And yet in the heart of the Bible-belt these people chose to turn their backs on Christ's teachings.

Riley is a brave man whose actions reflect his beliefs, if only there were more Republicans like him.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Jesus never advocated
going to the government to get help for the poor though.

He advocated people, as individuals to help the poor.

Rome had quite a welfare system back in Jesus' day, but he never advocated a march on Jeruselum for expanded government services and bread doles.

The Good Samaritan didn't call the local government official and tell him there's a guy hurt in the street, he acted himself to see the man was taken care of.

In my opinion, your Christian responsibility is not to get taxes raised, especially your responsibility is not to get taxes raised on the other guy (the rich) to pay to get people helped. It is to help people -- you, yourself, individually.

I hear too many people on this site gripe that they want more, more, more -- more money, more health insurance, more time off, more pay.

And when it comes to helping the less fortunate, it's yes, we need to raise taxes -- on the rich.

More for me, less for them -- and then have the nerve to talk about Christian charity.
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Warren Stuart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. True Rome had a wlfare system...Riley put it Christian terms
Rome also slaughtered people and animals for public enjoyment. It was a different world back then. (Of course the case can be made that the "Made for TV" Iraqi War amounts to the same thing.)

Riley was the one to put the budget in terms of christian charity as individuals the people of Alabama could have voted for it. They didn't.

Do you feel comfortable inviting a drug addict into your house as an act of individual charity? Been to any prisons lately to visit with inmates? Picked up any strangers off the street? Hitchikers?

I was once criticized for giving money to a woman holding a baby who was panhandling for cash. The person who criticized me was a concerned citizen who was afraid that the woman was going to spend the money on drugs. This citizen had called the police and was monitoring the woman (this was on a busy Manhattan sidewalk, and the cops weren't going to show up any time soon).

A comment this person made to me stuck with me, she said that it is best to let the aid agencies do their job. While my gesture was good intentioned it also enabled a self destructive behavior, that in the long run was more harmful then beneficial.

What's wrong with the rich paying their fair share? Some of the wealthiest people in the country pay less taxes than I do, and I ain't rich.



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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. That is a list of budget items without regard to priority, a scare tactic.
The intelligent and logical approach is to list budget items by priority and cut from low priority first.

In addition, some of the items listed can obviously be eliminated and should not have been authorized in the first place, e.g. "Alabama Shakespeare Festival, $563,086" and "Educational grants for private college students, $5,305,944".

For those of you so critical of Alabama, beware because some of your states will be next.

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