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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 11:53 PM
Original message
Al Martin replay on RadioLeft now. -- link
Edited on Sat Sep-13-03 11:57 PM by Bozita
http://www.radioleft.com/mod.php?mod=calendar&op=show_e...

"Market insiders are selling to the tune of about four billion dollars per week."

"Joe Sixpack keeps throwing his money into mutual funds."

Who's right?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. My money is on gold
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. gold fund prices have almost doubled since Dubya took over.
What does that tell you?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I bought gold at $297 an ounce
I am a happy man.

Buy now while the price is low. Protect yourself from the collapse...that or silver.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Sorry,
Al Martin has a serious credibility problem. Long of claims and accusations, short on hard proof.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. I've seen this elsewhere
I don't even read Al Martin, but I have seen this (can't remember where) about the big sell-offs lately.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. here
"As investors reach for higher-yielding bonds, for example, they drive the junk up in price. Stock market investors, meanwhile, rushing to buy shares of bad companies, push up prices... making both the companies and themselves look like winners.

But at extremes, the smart money and the dumb money part company. We read in yesterday's news that insiders, usually the smart money, sold $44 of stock for every $1 they bought. Insiders are generally net sellers. But this ratio is the highest ever. The smart money is taking advantage of this opportunity to get out."

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bonner/bonner091503.h...
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. Al Martin is A Liar.
First off I am not a freeper... But this Rove story Al Martin published about a Nazi connection to Karl Rove followed by seemed pretty far out there. For a guy who claims on his own site that "Al Martin is also considered to be America's foremost whistle-blower on government and military fraud." and charges 5000 bucks to be a keynote speaker.


His work often lacks sources so I thought I would investigate his article on Rove and the leak on Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife. I am pretty sure this is disinformation which, though helpful to the 'cause' I find being lied to by one of our own distasteful. So, as a former journalist, I took it upon myself to do a little investigation myself.

The original story from his site which is all over the net is at http://almartinraw.com/public/column106.html

-------------------------------------

Quote #1 from Al Martin's article.

"According to reliable sources, as well as our own Al Martin Raw.com investigation, Karl Rove is, in fact, the grandson of Karl Heinz Roverer, the gauleiter of Mecklenburg, who was also a partner and senior engineer of Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurbro AG. They built Birchenau (sic), the concentration camp in Nazi Germany."

------------------------------

Not that I am sticking up for Rove but Al Martin, if he did his research right would find the "gauleiter" of "Mecklenburg" was not Roverer... In fact there is no Karl Heinz Roverer or Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurbro AG that built Birkenau in the entire databases of at least four major holocaust archives I went through such as
http://www.holocaust-history.org /
http://www.remember.org /
http://www.nizkor.org /
http://www.mazal.org/Default.htm

I also double checked here (http://remember.org/educate/companies.html ) to see if Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurbro AG would show up but nothing.

And the fact is, the Gauleiter of Mecklenburg
was a guy named Friedrich Hildebrandt (http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/nsdap-gau-mecklenburg... )

Mecklenburg Gauleiter List

Friedrich Hildebrandt (1925 - 1930)
? Albrecht (1930 - 1931)
Friedrich Hildebrandt (1931 - 1945)

--------------------------------

Funny enough Karl Rver was the gauleiter of Weser-Ems from 1929-1942. (http://www.skalman.nu/tredje-riket/r.htm#Rover,Karl )(http://www.skalman.nu/tredje-riket/r.htm )

Which is almost the same name as Karl Rove but not the one given in the article. Not sure if Al Martin got lazy or if this is the right guy? Karl Rover also tried to stop the war and died under mysterious circumstances.
(http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/NSDAP/Gauleiter_R-Z.h... )

On the night of May 13, 1942, Rver startled the party hierarchy when he announced that he was going to see the Fhrer on the next day and then proceed to meet Winston Churchill, in order to make peace. Coming virtually on the first anniversary of Rudolf Hess' flight to Scotland, the matter was immediately brought to Martin Bormann's attention. An SS physician diagnosed the last stages of syphilis in Roever, and he was rushed to an isolated area. Two agents were sent by Bormann to examine Rver, and they reported on May 15 that the sick man had succumbed to heart failure. The whole matter was hushed up and soon forgotten in the course of the war."
(Excerpted from Charles Hamilton's Leaders and Personalities of the Third Reich, R. James Bender Publishing, 1984; story also found in Karl Hffkes, Hitlers Politische Generale, Grabert-Verlag, 1986/1997

--------------------------------

So it seems that if there were a Nazi in the family so to speak, he was one who tried to end the war and most likely was murdered by Hitler for even suggesting it. And he was not really one of the bad guys. He certainly had no engineering company and was not involved in camp construction....

The other thing that shoots down this article is the fact that Karl Rove's grandfather worked on a highway road crew during the Great Depression not building gas chambers, according to a Boston Globe article from 2001. (scroll down)

http://www.boston.com/globe/magazine/2000/7-23/features...


Turn out his real father is is not even Louis Rove... as Karl Rove told the New Yorker (http://bnfp.org/neighborhood/Lemann_Rove_NYM.htm )

But when I asked Rove about it he said the real story is that he was, as it were, half-adopted. I asked him if he'd ever found out who his real father is, and he said that he had, but didn't meet him until many years later, when he was in his forties. He got in touch with the man, arranged to visit him, and was greeted with a chilly reception. Rove spoke of his adoptive father in a tone of fierce admiration, love, and loyalty, for, as he put it, "how selfless his love had been," as shown by his willingness to play, persuasively, the part of a blood parent for two decades. The bond between Rove and his adoptive father became even more important, no doubt, after Rove's mother committed suicide, in Reno, Nevada, in 1981.

-------------------------------

I would like to know the sources for the claim that "As a consequence of this leak, her entire team of overseas assets were liquidated." This statement was further expanded to set a number:
"So Karl Rove has now been identified as the leaker responsible for the deaths of more than 70 CIA assets overseas."

I object to the word assets for people. So maybe they weren't CIA agents or operatives, maybe they were contacts, informers, collaboraters. Why no word then, in the foreign press? Assets is a word used to refer to things, not people.

This is a highly inflammatory claim with nothing to support it. I think this is an important story, but it is seriously weakened by this unsupported contention and subsequent debunking of information.

What do you think?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Did you read the last 2 responses?
or did you go into flame mode automatically?
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Flame Mode?
He's a Liar. I am not flaming. I am pointing out the truth. He is a liar. He lies. Bush Lies. Rove Lies. I don't like liars.

Do you?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. No but this comment was made
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 02:52 AM by God_bush_n_cheney
Unknown Known
4. I've seen this elsewhere "I don't even read Al Martin, but I have seen this (can't remember where) about the big sell-offs lately."

I provided a back up to this.

"But at extremes, the smart money and the dumb money part company. We read in yesterday's news that insiders, usually the smart money, sold $44 of stock for every $1 they bought. Insiders are generally net sellers. But this ratio is the highest ever. The smart money is taking advantage of this opportunity to get out."

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/bonner/bonner091503.h...

Now, Al May be a liar. But on this item he is telling the truth! Can you provide evidence to the contrary?



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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I am not going to bother
Once was enough for me. I spent a day debunking him. When I am lied to by a bit player once, I don't read or listen anymore. I don't care. They go into the liar folder next to the garbage bin.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Al is full of shit...I agree!
But on this he is not lying...You can look up the statictics at the securities and exchange commission. Insiders are big time selling. They know the time is right to get out. Read the 321 article...Has a very good analysis of what is happening right now.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. BTW....
Edited on Sun Sep-14-03 03:04 AM by God_bush_n_cheney
I have advocated gold for over 2 years now. The market is fixin to tank...the bond market bubble is about to burst if it hasn't already. Right behind that is the housing bubble. The imbalances in the system must be rectified.

Oh and top of that the Fed is printing money like there is no tomorrow. Devaluing the ones you have think Weimar Republic.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think I understand the fellow's
concern. The worst thing about Rush Limbaugh when he started was he mixed some truth in with his lies. People tended to remember the truth and forget the lies.

I don't think he was contesting Raw's claim at this point, just warning that he's an untrustworthy source, and one should take any claim with a grain of salt.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
1237 Elon Place
High Point, NC 27263
http://www.plan9.org
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. As I do....
But good disinfo...is always mixed with truth.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. well, I believe more of Al Martin then not

and I wonder about these posters that jump on him with both feet at the mere mention of his name.

like the posters that scream anti-semite at the mere mention of Israel.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-14-03 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I have to agree...
Al Martin has been dead on is a few instances.
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