"Christian" physicians say Schiavo NOT vegatative, is dying in agony

[Bluebear]

Their webpage deserves a looksee, only to locate a "Christian" doctor or dentist in your area to AVOID, since they are evidently reading from entirely different medical textbooks and are content to let you linger against your wishes.

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Washington DC, March 23, 2005--The head of the Christian Medical Association (http://www.cmdahome.org) today questioned the diagnosis of Terri Schiavo as one of a persistent vegetative state, and debunked the myth that starvation is not a painful death.

"Today a Mayo Clinic neurologist indicated that previous assertions that Terri Schiavo is in a Persistent Vegetative State (PVS) are incorrect. I, like many Americans who have seen the videos of her interacting with her parents, also question the PVS diagnosis. In fact, I question the validity of the concept of Persistent Vegetative State diagnosis. It is pejorative because it labels a person as being a vegetable--taking away their humanity. It is also impossible to establish this diagnosis. Some patients who have come out of PVS have stated that their mind was in a prison but they knew what was going on around them."

http://www.cmdahome.org/index.cgi?BISKIT=3843132836&CONTEXT=art&art=2978

[ohio_liberal]

1. Christian Medical Association?

:wtf:

[katsy]

3. yeah, you know...

the guys that "smell" different.


:silly:

[knitter4democracy]

12. Oh, they're a fun group.

They have chapters at every med school, dental school, and at a lot of nursing schools around the country. They're, ummm, odd. David went once or twice in med school and left after it became clear what their agenda was (they'd billed it simply as a non-denom prayer group--total lie). Boy, they don't ever let go of you, though, as we still get the occasional e-mail from them, and we don't even know how they know the new ones.

They're just weird. They have this total disconnect: believe in Creationism and Evolution at the same time, usually; believe in the power of God to heal but use everything at their disposal on every patient; stuff like that. We're Christians, too, but they're too weird for us. Kinda like an internist in town whose sign says that he practices "Biblical medicine," whatever that is. :eyes:

[Bluebear]

13. "Biblical medicine"??

Hay ya ya ya, hay ya ya ya ...

[knitter4democracy]

14. I guess.

My husband and I had a good laugh over that one. What, he's going to use urine and fecal matter like the Egyptians did or put some spit in some dirt and put that on people's eyes? Seriously. :shrug:

[Bluebear]

21. Sounds like that doctor will now get to present his "evidence"

7pm, he "observed her" via videotape and now the court will hear him? good heavens.

[knitter4democracy]

26. Exactly.

:eyes:

[THUNDER HANDS]

17. yeah, just pray you don't get one of their doctors

;)

[smoogatz]

2. Funny...

The article doesn't name the Mayo neurologist, or provide a link to his remarks. Imagine that.

[LibertyLover]

27. Mayo Clinic doctor

There is a DU thread on this guy. His name is William P. Cheshire.
Here is the address:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3337257

In the first post there is a link to a New York Times article on him. There is a wonderful quote from the head of the ethics department at, if I'm remembering correctly, U of Penn, who when asked about this guy said "Who?". That should sum up his abilities to diagnose Mrs. Schiavo's condition from looking at her.

[denverbill]

4. Well, if she's not persistantly vegetative, and she's in pain,

I'm assuming that she will manifest some sort of evidence that she is in pain.

Even a pithed frog climbs out of hot water.

[Radio_Rick]

5. They are the same MD's who equate stem cell research to abortion

and ran ads against Prop 71 (The Stem Cell Research Initiative in California).

[maveric]

6. Why dont these quacks "Lay Hands" on Terri and cure her.

If they include religion into their practice and they are true beleivers, then they should be able to use their skills with the powers of Jesus to cure her. Right?
If not then it is a hopeless case and prolonging her life is cruelty?
Right?

Any fundie lurkers here to explain this to me?

[oneighty]

7. "Is dying in agony"

This poster (Me) was on life support and unresponsive to stimuli for days. I do not know that to be true because "I was not there". No I did not have a brain injury. It was a major infection of unknown origin.

Others at a later date told me about it. I do not remember anything no pain no hunger no thirst, nothing just nothing. I might as well have been dead.

180

[DearAbby]

8. Terri is under Hospice Care...these are good trained people

that will keep her sedated, just in case.

[Az]

9. Another video tape diagnosis

Meanwhile the doctors that are treating her continue to say there is no one present in her body.

[stopbush]

10. I went to my Xtian optometrist for new glasses...

but all he did was smear mud on my eyes...

[Nite Owl]

11. I wonder how many of these

'christian' doctors take patients who don't have insurance at a reasonable fee?

[thedevilinthedetails]

15. And it's not the real "Mayo Clinic" anyway

CNN had reported that the doctor was from the Mayo Clinic of "blah blah" some place in Florida.

Can't find it now, but I read it earlier...

It's just like the "Nobel Prize Nominated Nuerologit". I bet it's the same guy.

And John Carlson, a right wing talk radio dip ship from here in Seattle, was calling Bill Frist a "world reknowned heart surgeon" the other day!

It's barf bag politics to the rescue!

[thedevilinthedetails]

16. Oh this is funny

And as proof of the "dying by dehydration IS painful" this quack weighs in:

<i>"Is dying of thirst and dehydration a painless death as some experts have asserted? Most so-called experts have never seen someone die in this manner. Unfortunately, having worked for 13 years in Africa, where the most common cause of death in children is dehydration from gastroenteritis, I have seen hundreds if not thousands of patients with dehydration and some of them so far gone, that despite resuscitation attempts, they died."

Dr. Stevens explained, "As dehydration begins there is extreme thirst, dry mouth and thick saliva. <b>The patient becomes dizzy, faint and unable to stand or set.</b> The patient has severe cramping in their arms and legs as the sodium and potassium concentrations in their body goes up as their fluids go down. In their misery, the patient tries to cry but there are no tears. The patient experiences severe abdominal cramps, nausea and dry-heaving as their stomach and intestines dry out. </i>

Obviously he hasn't seen Terri either if he thinks she is still walking around the hospice room waiting for the effect of the feeding tubes being yanked to hit her....

Uh huh

[AlienGirl]

18. "Vegetative" does not refer to "vegetable," moran

The "vegetative" in PVS doesn't refer to vegetables at all. It refers to the involuntary biological processes, like digestion and circulation. In other words, it means a person in a PVS is capable of only involuntary, unconscious neurological functions, and not of conscious functioning.

Tucker

[Dutch]

19. one- and only one- thing i do agree on- the term 'vegetative'

It is a pretty unpleasant term, and i wish it could be replaced with a better one (dont know what, though). Mrs Schiavo and others in her tragic condition are not 'vegetables', they remain human beings- and it is precisely as such thst they have a right to have their wishes to die with some dignity respected.

Naturally, I think everything else this 'Christian Medical Association' fellow is spouting is utter garbage, but what more have we come to expect?

[AlienGirl]

22. "Vegetative" refers to the automatic unconscious functions of the body

and was in use as a word for those processes long before we had the technology to maintain anyone in a state consisting only of those processes. It does not mean "a vegetable."

Tucker

[Dutch]

24. thanks, but I knew that- I didn't actually say it meant 'vegetable'

But the two terms are connected at root, plus I think it's further assumed that connotation over time (are you seriously arguing the term was not relevant to the development of the vile term 'vegetable' to regard to people in this condition?). Therefore I do think these whackos have a point about the use of this word, in spite of the its only partially related genesis- its connotations have become such that, in this age of sanitized language, I think there is an argument for using a less dehumanizing (or apparently dehumanizing) term.

[hector459]

20. Then they should call upon God to save her and GW Bush.

They are so phony.

[EST]

25. God has been tryng to kill this woman for fifteen years, now

The doctors and technicians have just finally chosen to give up and let him win.

[mainer]

23. Ooh, thanks for the link!

very relieved to find out I don't go to any of these quacks. I don't want a doctor to pray for me. i want them to treat me using the latest scientific information.

[kodi]

28. make no mistake: THIS IS AN ATTACK ON SCIENCE

.

[Jack Rabbit]

29. And Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction

Now that politicians have reared their ugly heads in this matter, nobody with a clearly defined political agenda has any credibility.

Bring me someone with no axe to grind making that diagnosis, and I'll take it seriously enough to ask more questions.