Is language the '15th sign' of fascism?

[ck4829]

I'm just curious, could controlling the way people speak be a sign of fascism?

Has it happened in other places where the government regulated what languages people could speak?

If it is the 15th sign, then we are in trouble.

There are many RW'ers who want to make English the official language of the US.

It would also prove this thing is bigger than **, because I don't think he has involved himself very much in controlling language.

[bryant69]

1. First of all

As terms go, Fascism is very fluid. Fascism is largely whatever you want it to be. It's fun to pretend that there are way to define fascism, but that usually consists of taking a list of things you see similar in Nazi Germany and in President Bush's America, calling those the definition of Fascism, and voila! You have a definition of Fascism that proves that we are living in a fascist society.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Completely dissagree...

For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco�s Spain, Salazar�s Portugal, Papadopoulos�s Greece, Pinochet�s Chile, and Suharto�s Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible.

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

The other 13 are here: http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

[bryant69]

3. OK.

I disagree with you a s well (as is not surprising). Take the one that you displayed. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. That obviously isn't a trait unique to fascism. We do it, but since the point of this discussion is to prove that America is fascist or proto-fascist, well, that's to be expected. But many other countries enjoy and celebrate their uniqueness - using flags in many cases.

I guess that's my big problem with this discussion - the point is clearly political at the end. It's not so much to analyze what makes a fascist nation, it's to prove that the United States, under the Bush Administration, is becoming a fascist nation. THat political goal in this discussion skews it.

Take expressions of nationalism? I mean you have to be pretty careful to make sure to include the United States under President Bush and exclude, say, France or Britian on their respective national holidays or Mexico for that matter.

[BlueEyedSon]

4. I guess you didnt bother to read the others.

[bryant69]

5. I've read them on prior occasions.

They've certainly been posted on several occasions.

My background is in history; and I have spent some time studying fascism (took a graduate seminar class in it). So it's not like I don't have an opinion on the subject.

That said, the purpose of this discussion isn't to understand fascism but to tie the Bush Administration rhetorically to fascism.

Bryant

[bpilgrim]

7. "Fascism is largely whatever you want it to be" - maybe for the layman

and politicos but FASCISM is certainly identifyable as a system of gov.

are there variations, sure, but that certainly doesn't mean it can be anything you want it to be cept in your OWN world, maybe, but that doesn't actually count.

it is our DUTY as the privledged sons and daughters, borthers and siters, cousins, neighbors, etc. to NEVER forget what FASCISM is.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

there is NO denying that corporate power has controll over our gov, media, envio., jobs and our lives and that the military is now being used to further our foreign policy.

peace

[meow2u3]

6. Let the pukes try to pass another bill of attainder

This time, against Latinos, Native Americans, and Asians. If they outlaw languages other than English, they're doing just that: declaring foreign language speakers criminals by a legislative act.

Even--and I mean even--Scalia would strike such a law as an unconstitutional bill of attainder.